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A Courageous Church Brings True Awakening – On Foundations Of Freedom Should pastors apply the Bible to current events? What does an “Awakening” look like? Historically, what is preached during a true revival? What is The Great Commission really about? Does the American church’s definition of “success” align with God’s? Does a Biblical separation of Church and State separate God from government? Tune in – you don’t want to miss this foundational program on how God’s called His Church to affect society!

Air Date: 04/27/2022

Guest:

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture

David:

Welcome to Foundations of Freedom, where we’ll look at many important aspects of our common heritage about which most folks have heard absolutely nothing today. Joining me is our cohost, Rick Green. Rick is an attorney. He’s a former legislator. He is an author of numerous books. He also heads Patriot Academy, which is a great program for young people, showing them how they can be our future civil leaders. Rick and I have the opportunity to cohost a radio program daily heard nationally. And it’s great to have you, Rick, thanks for being here.

Rick:

Good to be on. I’m glad you talked about also just the fact that these are things most people haven’t heard of or don’t think about. I think some of the things you’re covering in this program are really going to illuminate the history of America, it’s going to bring some things to life, we’ve…

David:

I think it’d be surprised in a lot of ways too. Clearly, it’s going to be documented. We have a lot of original documents we’ll share and it’ll be things that will surprise folks.

Rick:

Well, let’s get some questions from the audience to get us started.

David:

Sounds great.

America Needs Revival

Guest:

With the erosion of our morals and our government and society, it seems to me like the only thing that would save America is a spiritual revival. What are your thoughts on that?

Rick:

Well, it sounds like that particular audience members asking for the church to do more, then if we want to have a revival in America, that really does have to begin in the church, doesn’t it?

David:

It does. But I don’t think we know what a revival is anymore. And you can look in the Bible and find revivals as revivals under Asa, Jehoshaphat and Josiah. And America has the great benefit of having had about half a dozen major revivals, the First Great Awakening, the Second Great Awakening at the turn of the century Bibles, some even called the Third Great Awakening. But historians have a tough time distinguishing between the Second and Third Great Awakening.

But one of the fun things about looking to see what a revival looks like is looking to see what is looked like in all these previous times and there’s very similar patterns. Great example is what do you preach about in times of revival? And I think most Americans they think, oh, revival, that’s where you get people brought to Christ and that’s where you have a lot of salvations, a lot of church growth. And no, not really.

As a matter of fact, one of the things we’ve been blessed with is we own about 100,000 documents from before 1812. So, thousands of handwritten documents of Washington and Adams Jefferson but also church history, and right here, we have a pretty good stack of sermons from church history. So let me just pull some of these out.

What Leads to True Revival?

Rick:

And this would have been part of a revival or leading up to a revival?

David:

Well, this for example, these are typical sermons out of what’s called the First Great Awakening. And without that revival, there is no United States of America today. Most historians agree about that. No problem. So let’s look at revival sermons. This is done by the Reverend Dr. Jonathan Mayhew, who by the way, John Adams, said, Dr. Jonathan Mayhew was one of the guys that was individually responsible for American independence.

Rick:

Yeah, we don’t think about pastors as Founding Fathers.

David:

That’s right. But John Adams did. And he specifically singled out this man. Well, this is a sermon from 1755. And the sermon from 1755 is a sermon on earthquakes. Now, I don’t in my entire life as a Christian recall having heard a sermon on an earthquake.

Rick:

I’ve never heard one.

David:

But what happened was in New England, they had an earthquake. And because they believe the Bible applied to every aspect of life, whatever was in the news they talked about from the pulpit. Now, this is a five week series on what the Bible says about earthquakes.

Knowing God’s Word

Rick:

So you had to both have an attitude of being willing to apply the Bible to anything that happens, but also have a pretty good knowledge of the Bible if you’re going to be able to cover that much on…

David:

That’s right. So you have that. This is a sermon by the Reverend Dr. Samuel Davies. He’s one of the major revival voices in the central part of the United States and Virginia and Maryland, that area. And this is a sermon on religion and patriotism, the constituents of a good soldier. You have a group of soldiers about to be deployed into the French and Indian War. And he says, guys, before you go, and you know what the Bible says about the military? And so…

Rick:

Seems like that would help to set the attitude for a person in the military?

David:

It will.

Rick:

If you’re learning a biblical view of what the role of the military is, that’s going to make your military a much better thing than today. We’re trying to get God away from our military academies, away from the military…

David:

And you see today, we think the Bible stays in the church, and if we have a revival and get people into the church, we didn’t bring people in the church, we went outside. And here’s one from Dr. Jonathan Mayhew. This one is in 1760. It’s on the great fire in Boston.

Two Revolutions

Rick:

So if it happens in the culture or in the neighborhood, we’re going to learn what the Bible has to say about it?

David:

Here is a sermon from 1765 on the Stamp Act, the sermon on taxes…

Rick:

On a law, so this is not a law in taxes, we’re going to actually have a preacher get up and talk about what happening at the legislature.

David:

And by the way, this man right here, this is Charles Johnson. He’s one of the guys that John Adams also singled out as being really significant. That’s a revival sermon. Here’s a sermon on the execution of Henry Blackburn for the murder of George Wilkinson called an Execution Sermon. So if something he’s going to civil government, we should see what’s happening over there. What does the Bible say about that? We looked at civil government through a biblical lens.

Here’s a sermon, it’s called an Artillery Sermon, because once a year, the militia got together and elected their officers. And so they had a preacher come in and say, hey, talk to us about officers and military, etc. So Artillery Sermon. Here’s a sermon on the revolution in France. America was starting to be drawn into the French Revolution. And so you got pastor taking on the pulpit said, let’s talk about foreign policy here.

What Does the Bible Say About the Issues of the Day?

Rick:

So, as of today, so they’re preaching on foreign policy, philosophy, all of these things.

David:

This particular sermon and it’s called a Century Sermon because it’s about 1800. They say okay, we just finished the century. Let’s look back over the history of our country in the last 100 years, see what God’s been up to…

Rick:

Actually did the recounting of the former day.

David:

That’s right.

Rick:

So I grew up going to revivals, which was usually a one night thing or a weekend thing, I don’t remember…

David:

So this is the First Great Awakening. This is George Whitfield. And this is Samuel Davies. And this is Charles Johnson and Jonathan Cooper. And this is Jonathan Edwards and all the sermons. That’s a revival. I didn’t see a single salvation message in there. Let’s not stop yet.

The Second Great Awakening

Let’s go to the Second Great Awakening, which is where we get the end of the abolition of slavery. You had so much of the turning of urban areas and get rid of child labor, etcetera. Here’s a sermon on Dooley. So that was a moral issue. It was in the news.

Rick:

And was this before or after the famous duel with, who was it Alexander Hamilton and?

David:

This is the same year…

Rick:

Same year? No kidding. So they’re again responding to what’s happening in the…

David:

Alexander Hamilton was in a duel with Aaron Burr. And that’s not a good deal. What does the Bible say about it?

Well, that’s what we looked at. Here’s a sermon on the opening of a great bridge over the Connecticut River, a sermon on architecture. Here is a sermon… oh, this is a popular topic, a sermon on the infirmities and comforts of old age, how to grow old. Here’s a sermon on a solar eclipse. What verse do you use?

Rick:

You got me there.

Political Issues or Biblical Issues?

David:

I read this one out of the Little Book of Amos, there are several allusions to eclipses, both solar and lunar. Here is a sermon on the fatal effects of art and spirits, so one on alcohol. Here is a sermon on the delivery of military despotism. This is the war of 1812. So we’re in the middle of a war. We have sermons on that.

Rick:

So were these pastors worried about losing their 501(C) status?

David:

Exactly.

Rick:

I mean, these are what people today would call a political issue. This isn’t just a cultural thing, they’re apply in scripture…

David:

Just let me get through a fast I mean, here’s one of the duties of American citizens. So what does it mean to be a Christian citizen? Here’s one of the effects of Hebrew slavery, we’re talking about moral issues that aren’t cultural. Here’s one on immigration.

Here’s what the Bible says about immigration. Here’s one on the influence of the gospel upon the intellectual powers. You go to college university, what role does the Bible have when you get to college university? Here’s a sermon right here on the Mexican. We’re war with Mexico here. And now these are all revival sermon.

No Toping Off Limits

Rick:

There’s nothing off limits here?

David:

No, nothing off. You know, I keep going through, you get the idea…

Rick:

There’s nothing off, okay. So how does preaching to or speaking to the things that are happening in the culture caused revival? Is it because you’re actually applying?

David:

Well, let me let me back up and ask couple questions. Why did they preach those kinds of sermons? Obvious answer i, because the Bible dealt with those kind of issues, because every one of those sermons is Bible verses. Can most pastors a day pick up a newspaper, look at what’s in the news and say, oh, I know Bible verses to deal with that.

Every one of these sermon topics, they dealt with what was in the news, which means the Bible dealt with because they’ve all got Bible verses with it. The second thing that’s important to know about those revivals is the theology in America was a little different than it is now.

If you look back into early America, the First and Second Great Awakening, most denominations were generally Calvinistic. Now, I’m not going to talk about whether that’s right or wrong. I’m just telling you historically that’s where it was. Even the Baptists were Calvinistic at that point in time. So basically, hey, God’s going to take care of salvation. We don’t have to worry about that…

 

The Mindset that Changed the Nation

Rick:

We got to figure out what to do after we got to apply. How do you disciple? They were more focused on that.

David:

So the revivals back then weren’t focused on salvation messages because God’s going to take care of getting you saved. You need to know how to live as a Christian. And so what they would do is give you all this information and it would change your lifestyle and behavior. And people go, I want what he’s got. Well, that’s because he was living a lifestyle… It spread. That’s what a revival was. People said I want that too.

And it was because they were practical. You got something going on with the family, you got something going on at work with the employer? See, we’re so fixated on getting people converted, we don’t teach them how to live and nobody likes what they see. You know, they may get converted and have their fire insurance, but it didn’t change their behavior. And that’s a revival…

Rick:

Even though it doesn’t spread. Whereas with this, a revival is where you see the whole culture begin to change because so many people were actually applying scripture to their life, their lives became different, the community became different, the whole nation changed.

David:

Everybody wanted what they had, because it changed the way, I mean, you got all these moral issues that they’re dealing with and it changed their moral view of stuff. And people said, I like that, I want that.

Some Interesting Statistics

Rick:

Alright, let’s get another question. You’re ready?

David:

You bet.

Rick:

I see in statistics that show that church attendance has been dropping and I was just wondering why you think that is?

Rick:

That’s another good question actually kind of follows up to what you were saying, if you’re not applying it, people are looking at you and going well, I don’t really want what you have, is that? Why we’re decreasing in terms of numbers?

David:

There’s several things going on, let’s kind of talk about statistics for a moment. When you talk about statistics and where the church is, I don’t think most Christians are aware where the church is. We just did a book with George Barna.

He’s the national pollster. And so Barna and I did a book together called U-Turn and it looks at a lot of the stats that’s going on with the family, with the church, with the country, etc. Pretty amazing stats going on. But let us talk for a moment.

Somewhere between 75 to about 82-83% of the nation claims to be Christian, they profess Christianity. They say I’ve had an experience with Jesus. I’m a Christian.

Jesus Goal: Discipleship

Rick:

So, roughly 4 out of 5?

David:

4 out of 5. And so you ask people, why don’t you go on church? And it’s absolutely irrelevant to anything I do. Now, I’ve got to say as a strong Christian who goes to an evangelical church, I agree. You know what? I don’t need 52 salvation messages to hear I’m already Christian.

I don’t need to get saved every Sunday. And what I get as a steady dose of salvation messages in most Christian churches. There’s nothing that tells me anything I can do on Monday morning. And part of the problem we have is the Great Commission.

I think everybody knows the great commission. But let me read it’s Matthew 28:18-20. Then Jesus came to them and said, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obey everything I’ve commanded you.

Now, we’ve taken the Great Commission and we’ve turned that into a salvation mandate. It’s a discipleship mandate. He said, you teach them everything I’ve taught you.

Think about what Jesus talked about. In Matthew 19 is all about no fault divorce. If you get over in Matthew 25, it was about taxation. If you get in Matthew 20, it was about employer and employee relationships. If you get John 8, it was about civil court procedures. How come we’re not covering that out of…

Measuring Success

Rick:

Yeah, when it’s the last time you heard a sermon on employer and employee relations or on taxes?

David:

That’s right. And Jesus did that. And he says, you teach them everything I taught. No. No. We’re teaching the sinner’s prayer. Sinner’s prayer was introduced into church life until the 1920s. How do people get saved before there was a sinner’s prayer in America? This stuff right here. Now, here’s the problem we got.

The 613 civil laws in the Bible, Bible deals with everything: from immigration to marriage, from taxes, through business, you name it. Bible deals with it. We don’t deal with that in the church. And so we don’t give people something to go live with.

So now when you ask a church, and going back to George Barna and what he does, when you ask a church, how do you measure whether you’re successful or not?

Rick:

It’s how many conversions every week.

David:

There’s five answers, the five measurements that churches say, here’s how we know if we’re being successful. Let’s read five to you: worship, service attendance; two, the amount of dollars that are donated to the church; three, the number of programs that are offered by the church; four, the number of staff people hired by the church; and number five, the square footage of facilities we have available. Now give me a Bible verse for any of those?

Following the Great Commission

Rick:

And nothing in there about following the commands and applying?

David:

Well, actually, if I were to take that I can have fun going the other way. Because you look in John 6, Jesus said to his disciples, everybody else is leaving, are you guys going to leave me too? I keep preaching the truth and nobody can handle it. Wait a minute. I thought we measured success by growing, expanding church numbers.

Jesus is saying in Matthew 15 verse 12, disciples came, they said Jesus, don’t you know that what you’re saying offense the other people? And he essentially said, guys, they’re going to have to learn to live with the truth. They’re either going to get it from me or they get an eternity.

Better they get it from me now. We’re not into the truth. We’re into growth and we’re in to making people feel good. And so we don’t do anything relevant.

And here’s the question I asked pastors right now on a very regular basis. I say, you know, if you stood up in your church on Sunday morning and announced we’re closing down the church, we’re moving somewhere else. On Monday morning, would you have civil leaders rushing to you and say, no, don’t close, we need you to stay you add too much value to the community, you do somethings that are good? Most civil leaders would even know that they were church…

Rick:

Wouldn’t even notice you’ve gone, which means you weren’t really impacting the community.

AMERICAN STORY

Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders called The American Story. For so many years, people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that’s just not known or not told today.

And we would say very providentially in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project that say America is evil, and everything in America was built off slavery, which is certainly not true or things, like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not out the statement Black Lives Matter, but the organization that says we’re against everything that America was built on, and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There’s so many things attacking America.

Well, is America worth defending? What is the true story of America? We actually have written and told that story starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln, we tell the story of America not as the story of a perfect nation of a perfect people. But the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It’s a story you want to check out, wallbuilders.com, The American Story.

David:

There’s one example I want to share a practical application, it’s from a church in Fort Worth, Dallas area, really good stuff. School Superintendent, very large school district, gets a visit from the Texas Department of Corrections and houses all the prisons and prisoners. And they went to the principal, the Superintendent and said, how many kids do you have a third grade level who are reading below grade level?

And he told him. He said why? He said well, if we know how many kids at third grade level reading below grade level, we know how many prison beds we need to prepare for in the future.

So he goes to the churches and community said, guys, we need your help. We need you to adopt some third graders and mentor them, they need to get their reading levels up so we can keep them out of prison 10 years from now. And the church has said, hey, that’s really practical.

Sure it is. Now, that’s what a church should be doing is practical stuff. And then if that church says, we’re going leave the community, civil leaders come, no, you can’t leave. What you’re doing for our…

Meeting the Needs in the Community

Rick:

Yeah, because at that point, you’re feeding his sheep, right? I mean you’re meeting the need in the community?

David:

And see this is the problem the church has now. It doesn’t know its own history. It doesn’t know the Bible. And it’s erected standards that are nowhere in the Bible.

And that’s how we measure success. Now, if you look back into the history of the United States four centuries, you will find that, for example, the first folks who came to America, whether it be the Virginia colony, loaded up the preachers. You will find that the preachers are the ones who get the first civil elections going.

You’ll find that the first legislature Virginia met in the choir loft of the church. Now I don’t think that would happen today.

You go to the next group that arrives, the Pilgrims, the Pilgrims establish civil government with annual elections. And their pastor said, hey, Exodus 18:21, the Scripture says you choose out from among you leaders of 10s, 50s, 100s… So they get that and they come up with the first ever Bill of Rights. As you move into other areas, you get to 1636, you got the Reverend Roger Williams who established civil government in Rhode Island.

In 1636, you have the Reverend Thomas Hooker who established civil government in New England, did it on sermon, great sermon that he preached. And by the way, that’s where you get the first Constitution in the history of the United States. And historians say our Constitution is the direct successor of what they did Fundamental Orders of Connecticut.

Reverend Nathaniel Ward created their Bill of Rights because he said, hey, you’ve got individual rights that come from God, government’s supposed to leave them alone. You just go through and look at what…

Reverent, Reverend, Reverend…And Civil Government

Rick:

I’m hearing to Reverend, Reverend, Reverend in civil government in the same sentences…

David:

All the time. And say Malachi 2:7, the Bible says, if you want to know what the law says, go to the priests, ask the priests because they know what the civil law is.

Rick:

So there you say the law and a priest in the same sentence? So this is not we’ve gotten in this mentality the church stay away from politics, don’t talk about what’s happening in the law, or government? You’re telling me historically is the opposite, they’re together?

David:

Everything right. And whenever…

Rick:

Not any one institution, I don’t want the same people misunderstand…

Two Separate Entities

David:

Oh, no, it’s supposed to be two separate institutions. But you’d never separate God from anything. I mean, Europe had the church and the state with one leader over that ran both of them. And that’s where you get all the [crosstalk 17:33]. No. No. There’s a biblical separation of church and state, but not a separation of God from government.

Rick:

Because we as citizens are in both, right? So if I’m a citizen and I’ve become a Christian and as a citizen, I got to be involved in government, I’m going to church, I need to be going to church hearing this kind of stuff so I know what to do whenever I get over there in government.

David:

Here you go. Let’s look at some sermons right here. This is a sermon preached before John Hancock. A sermon? Yeah, it’s pretty clear the Reverend Dr. Samuel Copper. Oh, by the way, Sandy Cooper, John Adams named him as one of the specific guys responsible for independence.

He’s part of the First Great Awakening. And here he is preaching a sermon in front of John Hancock. Yeah, for 170 years, we started in state legislative sessions without having a preacher come into the legislature, and you had the governor, you had the lieutenant governor, you had the House of Representatives, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, you had the Senate, you had all the governing bodies, and they said, guys, you’re facing taxes.

Here’s what the Bible says about debt. No, you can’t do these taxes. Bible says you can’t do these kinds of taxes. You can’t do progressive taxes. You can’t do capitation taxes. You can’t do an estate tax.

The Government Printed Sermons?

Rick:

Well, let me get this straight. So they’re not only are they on Sunday morning preaching from the pulpit to their congregation about everything in the culture so that the citizens can go apply, they’re actually going into government buildings and speaking to the government officials about what the Bible says on these things?

David:

It’s worse than that. The government actually reprinted the sermons and shipped them across the street. Now here’s John Hancock. Here’s a sermon in front of Samuel Adams, the Father of the American Revolution, signer of the Declaration, here’s a sermon in front of Caleb Strong.

He’s one of the 55 guys who did the Constitution United States. Here’s a sermon right here. This one is in front of Samuel Huntington, Samuel Huntington, a signer of the Declaration, the governor of Connecticut. Here’s one in front of Oliver Woolcock. He’s a signer of the Declaration. He’s the governor.

Rick:

It’s no wonder we were so blessed then, it was in everything that we did.

David:

But see that the problem we’ve got today, oh, that’s unconstitutional. Timeout. These are the guys who gave us our documents, and they’re having the service. Don’t tell me it’s unconstitutional when the guys who did Declaration and Constitution, etc, doing this. So, there’s a lot to go through here. Let me sum it up this way. I want to go to Charles Finney.

Charles Finney

Charles Finney as part of the Second Great Awakening, Charles Finney, the impact he had he really is the guy who started so much what even the evangelical church is today in the way of what we call a kind of altar calls. He had mourning benches in the way of extemporary sermons.

Prior to Charles Finney, everybody wrote their sermon out and you read your sermon. You did not preach, and it’s extemporary. And so he had a huge impact on the ministers of his day.

And I want to read you a quote that he gave to the ministers of that day because when you look back at America and you look at the role of the church and what they did, ministers lead in the military and they led the civil affairs and they lead on all the topics and they lead an education, you name it, church is in the middle of it. Here’s what he told ministers in his day. And by the way, the issue at that time was becoming the slavery issue because he’s really out front and we get it in slavery.

The Bible is very clear about this. So he’s taking clear moral positions, taking very hard positions on this, making a lot of people mad.

Here’s what he said. He said “Brethren, our preaching will bear is legitimate fruits. But if immorality prevails in the land, default is ours in a large degree.” And I wonder how many churches today say, you know, American is got a lot of immorality, that’s our fault.

Well, it’s what they do on… No. He says it’s the preacher’s fault. He says, if there isn’t a case of conscience, the pulpit are responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discrimination, pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate morally, he said the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in religion, yeah, we’re down to only 36% go to church, he said the pulpit was responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. I don’t think many people would object to the fact that…

Was Jesus Afraid to Offend?

Rick:

Yeah, when we complain about what’s happening in the state legislature or in Congress, he said if we’re complaining about that, the pulpit is responsible for that?

David:

He said, “If our politics become so corrupt, that the very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it.” He said, let us not ignore this fact, my dear brethren, but let us lay the heart and be thoroughly awake to our responsibility and respect to the morals of this nation.”

Rick:

But isn’t the congregation also responsible if they’re the ones saying, I don’t want my pastor to cover these topics. I don’t want my pastor pushing an agenda. I don’t want us to look like we’re aligned with a political party.

I hear that all the time. So therefore, I don’t want my pastor to speak to any issue that’s going on. Because when the pastor gets up to speak about one of these issues, for some reason, people think that means they’re being political or they’re aligned with a political party or pushing an agenda.

David:

There’s two problems to that, one is the thinking of the people who say that, and two, is they’re thinking of the pastors who allow that to affect them. Your agenda should be the pursuit of the truth as laid out in the Bible. If the Bible takes the position, you ought to take a position, whether everybody likes or not, whether you think it divides your congregation or not.

Pastors Must Think Rightly

As Jesus told his disciples, are you guys going to leave me too? Everybody else has left me because they can’t handle what I’m saying? Your agenda should be the pursuit and the implementation of the truth.

Rick:

So if the pastor stopped speaking truth because they’re afraid of what people are saying, then the pulpit is responsible for the results that they get?

David:

That’s it. And the same thing with what’s political, because I was with some pastors recently, and we’re talking about this, and say, you know, I don’t like to talk about marriage and I don’t like to talk about homosexuality and I don’t like to talk about the abortion issue because it’s just too political.

Wait a minute, they weren’t political 20 years ago. It was pure Bible 20 years ago. But because government has come in and said, It’s our issue now, you’re going to back away from what the Bible deals with because it’s now become political? Now, if you had been preaching this 20 years ago, it wouldn’t become a political issue now because our people will be thinking right about this.

But because you wouldn’t take a stand 20 years ago, now it’s become a government issue and now you won’t talk about it. If the Bible talks about it, you ought to be talking about. And that’s exactly what they did in the sermons.

Whatever was in the news, we’re going to find the Bible application for it, we’re going to put it out there. So first off, we have to get Christians thinking right. Truth and the Bible is the objective.

We have to get pastors thinking right. Truth and the Bible is the objective. I’m not going to use the false measurements what it takes to be successful. I’m going to go after truth and the Bible.

Where True Courage Comes From

Rick:

So we have to be looking for that. We have to want to hear that from our pulpits, from our pastors in the congregation are the one? And then the pastors have to be courageous enough to say I’m going to speak truth regardless of the result?

David:

And you know, you can be really courageous when you remember that you account to God and not your congregation. If you remember that He’s going to hold me accountable for what I do, or don’t say in the pulpit, and I don’t really care whether they all get ticked at me and chase me off because I answered him more than answer to my congregation. You get that mentality, you’ll find your congregation will grow.

You’ll find that like Jesus after they left him for a while, he get repopulated with thousands and thousands and thousands who wanted to hear that message. And he ticked off the Pharisees and he ticked off the civic leaders, and he called Herod by name and they kept following him because He had some courage. They said you’re not like the other teachers, you actually teach something.

And so a pastor and a Christian has to be more accountable, more aware of accountability to God than to congregation than to a community than to a newspaper that wants to criticize him or anything else. So…

Rick:

And there’s actually a bigger reason than just ourselves. I mean, this is the foundation is a freedom. And so if we don’t get back to applying scripture, we’re going to lose those freedoms. So if we as Christians want to look for those things, we need to have a desire to have our pastor speaking those things, if we want pastors that will do that and have that courage, how do you get there? I mean, here we’ve got so many years without that in most of our pulpits.

Three Tools:

David:

There’s three things that can give you some tools to do this. Number one is go to nationalblackroberegiment.com That is a website that shows you what the black robe regiment was and how your church can be part of that. It helps equip pastors and Christians to be part of that backbone. Second thing you can do is get a Founders’ Bible, read this because this is the way the Founders applied the Bible to every aspect of life, these kinds of sermons…

Rick:

I’ve got to say that’s like a compilation of all it is, it’s applying the Scripture to each of these areas.

David:

And third thing is go to speakupmovement.org. These are national Supreme Court attorneys that take and defend any church that stands for biblical truth and somebody comes after him, whether it’s the IRS or civil authorities, these guys don’t lose that the court. You have constitutional protection, get a backbone. These guys will defend you for free and they’re the best in America doing this. So that’s an action item.

A Courageous Church Brings True Awakening – On Foundations Of Freedom

Rick:

Now, all three of these action items are just for pastors, are they for all of us, citizens as well?

Action Items

David:

Yes to all of the above because they are for pastors, they are for Christians. The Christians will get it, you can pass it on to your pastor, you can pass it on to your church. This is every believer.

Because what happens to the pastor stands up to have backbone is the people in pew say, oh pastor, you can’t talk about that, you’ll get us in trouble. No, you won’t get yourself in trouble. There’s legal protection for that. So this applies to every Christian and every pastor in every church.

Rick:

And every one of us can study that Founders’ Bible. If we do these three things, we can restore those foundations of freedom.

David:

That’s exactly it.

Rick:

We’re out of time for today, folks. You’ve been listening to Foundations of Freedom. It’s a television series you can get right now at wallbuilderslive.com if you go to that link there on our website today.

Today’s program was a Courageous Church. So, lots of great information this week for you from Foundations of Freedom. The DVDs are available at wallbuilderslive.com, just click on that link there or you can catch them on television. But we really appreciate you listening today to WallBuilders Live!