Aborted Baby Parts Are Being Unethically Used In Vaccinations: In today”€™s episode, we have special guest Dr. Theresa Deisher on to talk about the effects that these unethical vaccinations are having on not just the health of our children but the morality of the community.  She has been instrumental in steering the scientific community towards adult stem cell research instead of embryonic stem cell research. Tune in now to learn more.

Air Date: 04/08/2019

Guest: Dr. Theresa Deisher

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.


Faith And The Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, always doing that from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker and President of WallBuilders, and my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator, national speaker, and author. Â

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Medical Issues of Today

David, Tim later in the program we’ll have Dr. Theresa Deisher with us. We’re going to be talking about the medical issues today, and actually, this is one of those years we’ve to cover this less than a lot of our more recurring topics like education and maybe specific legislation and that sort of thing.

But I remember a few years ago we had multiple, multiple programs on ethics and science because of the stem cell issue was really a hotly debated issue. In fact, we had speakers come to the legislators’ conference multiple times over whether or not, for instance, we would do it in our in our nation embryonic stem cell research or whether we would say, hey wait a minute that’s the taking of life. We only want to have adult stem cell research, and it was a hotly debated topic for several years during the Bush administration.

Embryonic Stem Cell Research


It was hotly debated. It really came to light. It was President Clinton who turned the direction of it. It had been banned for a number of years. And I think it was a 1993 or 1994 thereabouts, maybe “€˜96 that he turned the direction. He lifted the ban on using aborted children in research.

And then when President Bush came in, he reinstituted that ban and then people went through the roof. They said you’re stopping all medical science. Remember Michael J. Fox came out with that advertised that embryonic stem cell was going to be the thing that would cure him of the disease he had at that point.

We”€™ve Had More Cures with Adult Stem-Cell Research

And so now that we are now some almost 18 years down the road we still have zero cures. And by the way, it was pre-Clinton. They were doing this back in the 1970s, and that’s when the ban was put on I think in 1976.

Clinton lifted the ban I think in 1996, but they’ve been doing embryonic stem cell research since the 50s and the 60s. And so we’re talking 60 to 70 years and not a single cure. With adult stem cell that requires the death and no living child, we now have more than 100 cures, and so the science has kind of shut up on the other side as a result.

Scientists 100 Years Ago Were Pointing People To God


Well, it’s interesting how science has also changed. We’ve talked about this before when you look at science for hundreds of years ago. Scientist, by and large, were Christians and they would talk about science would point you toward God.

The only way you couldn’t see God in science was to see the surface level. If you really were digging into science, you were seeing God’s creation in it, and it revealed God to you on different levels.

Modern Science, Secularized Science

And what’s interesting is in modern science, it’s very much been a secularized science. Maybe you know going back to some of the roots in Darwin. Some of that is secularism but looking at the secular side of science now is oftentimes scientist say that you people with your religious convictions, you’re denying science.

That religion and science are no longer compatible. Yet what we’re discovering is that actually, nope, it’s generally what Christians who are aligning with the Bible, those positions they uphold, Science actually affirms that. That was a better position. So when Christians would say, hey you shouldn’t be doing research on aborted babies, abortion is wrong in researching or doing research using their bodies is wrong. That would go against a biblical position.

Discoveries Or Lack Of Discoveries is Revealing The Biblical Position is Correct

Well, having that biblical position in science is…maybe not all sciences are in favor of what it’s revealed but their discoveries or lack of discoveries, in this case, is revealing the biblical position actually was the scientifically correct position. That you don’t abort babies and you don’t do research on aborted babies. And so the secular scientists don’t want to acknowledge that the Christians actually were right in upholding this conviction and now it’s no longer just this embryonic stem cell debate.

It’s move beyond just can we do research on aborted babies. It’s what can we use the aborted babies for. Maybe how can they help us going forward using some of their DNA or their chromosomes or their bodies?

I remember when we first started talking about this. We said, you know we probably shouldn’t talk about this on air because this is gonna be weird and people won’t really receive it. People might not believe this. Then we talked to somebody who’s a doctor and (he) said actually no, this is the proof and here’s where it was.

We just went, Oh my gosh, the conversation now actually deals with vaccines and there’s a lot of people. I’m not here to say right be in favor of vaccines or be against vaccines. That’s not what this conversation is in my mind except that some vaccines have been proven that they are using particles from aborted babies. They’re using parts of fetuses of aborted babies for parts of modern vaccines –


And they had to take the parts of the babies while the babies were still alive. They had to murder the babies to get the parts they wanted for this vaccine.


They dissected live babies killing them during the dissection to harvest some of these particles or particulates or whatever they call them. And this is where your brain is going, No, there’s no way that happens. Except no, there’s documented evidence the people that have done some these research have come out on record saying, yes, that is what we do to get these parts for these vaccines. So now, it’s not about whether or not you’re pro-vaccine or anti-vaccine is your family.

I’m going to not take a position. You guys can and can have that argument. You know in your car at your home wherever you’re listening that’s great. But when it comes down to wait a second, we’re using human flesh, that you kill these humans and by the way human babies. Right.

Using Science In A Very Ungodly Manner

You’re taking babies in your research that were living when you started this operation, and you knew the operation was going to kill them. And so, you’ve murdered them to take these parts and put these parts from the babies you just murdered in the vaccine. Now, I’ve got a problem because that’s another one of those kinds of like the embryonic stem cell versus adult stem cell.

Now you’re talking about using science in a very ungodly manner. So now I can take a position and go, wait a second. Forget vaccines good or bad, that vaccine is not good because of what you’re doing in that vaccine, and I’m against that every single time.

The State Should Not Make You, Parents Should Have The Choice


Tim, you’re right, this show is not about should you or should you not. What it does back up though is that the State should not make you and that the parent should have the choice to do some vaccines and maybe not others or do all of them or do none of them. That ought to be the parents’ decision. And it’s partly because of, you know, the health of the child and it’s partly because of the ethics of whether or not that vaccine would actually become something that violates the religious objections or conscientious objections of that parent. That’s another topic, but that’s, you know, in this case, we’re talking about, hey this becomes a major ethical question, and our guest is a great person to answer that question with an amazing scientific background.

Dr. Theresa Deisher


Dr. Theresa Deisher was involved years ago in the debate over embryonic stem cell versus adult stem cells. She pointed it out back then, and it turned out she was right. She called the winning-side based on the ethics of it. They’ve recently had a couple of conferences in Rome. One is on the testing of vaccines. Talking about vaccines and what’s out there. The second was a follow up to it, and that’s ethics on vaccine usage. What is the right ethics around what we’re doing in vaccines how to use them and what we’re putting into our vaccines? And so she’s recently back from Rome, is very intimately involved and all this is going on.

What we’ve been discussing, and she has a really clear and concise view of what’s going on with these vaccines and what’s being done with them from an ethical position. Â


She”€™s had 20 years in biotechnology. She’s an inventor on 23 issued U.S. patents.

She was one of the major players in moving us towards adult stem cell research and away from embryonic stem cell research. She”€™s very respected and just a lot we can talk about on her background but let’s get to the specific issue and her thoughts on how this conference went.

We’ll be right back. Our special guest today will be with us when we return from the break. Her name is Dr. Theresa Deisher. Stay with us.

You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

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Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Dr. Theresa Deisher is with us. She has been instrumental in ethics in science. If she’s a big part of steering the scientific community towards adult stem cell research instead of embryonic stem cell research. Just returning from a conference in Rome on whether or not with vaccines that have aborted fetuses in them should parents have the right to objective those. Doctor Theresa Deisher thanks for your time and coming on on this very important topic today.

Dr. Deisher:

Happy to be here. Thank you for having me on.


Well, so just thrilled that there was even a conference on this subject. It is dismissed by so many that those of us that are concerned about this were thrilled to see you guys covering and bringing attention to it. Can you tell us a little background on how that came together and then we’ll dive into how you felt the conference went.

Two Conferences In Rome

There were two conferences recently in Rome. One was the end of January, and one was just about two weeks ago I guess. So the first conference was held by the Italian Society of Biologists. They were very concerned about vaccines that have literally not had any correct safety testing of them.

They became concerned when they actually went and tested some of these vaccines to see what actually was in them. At times could not find the viral component that was supposed to be there but found some very concerning contaminants. And the second conference was just held recently in Rome right outside of the Vatican.

Again, I was talking about not just the safety of the vaccines but the ethics and the use of the bodies of aborted babies to develop cell lines that are used to manufacture some vaccines.


Now, is this a new thing. Have aborted children been used in vaccines before or is this a new thing in the vaccine industry?

These Types Of Vaccines Were First Introduced in late 1979, Early 1980

Dr. Deisher:

Well, on a commercial scale it’s relatively new. So these types of vaccines were first introduced to the United States in late 1979 early 1980, which incidentally is right when autism starts to rise in the United States. Every time, they add another fetal-manufactured vaccine, the autism rates rise more steeply. So we see this dose of fact also.



Dr. Deisher:



This is a new concern about maybe it’s not a new concern. I mean maybe there’s been folks like you concerned about this for years, and media just doesn’t cover it, or most of us just don’t find out about it. But there seems to be, I’m just noticing in my own little circles more and more people talking about it and being concerned about it. So there does seem to be a raised awareness is that fair?

Dr. Deisher:

Oh, you know what, there”€™s definitely a raised awareness. Despite the fact that the media didn’t want to cover this, I’ve been talking about this for about 10 years now but what has happened in the last couple of years, and I would actually say you know probably over the last five or six years.

Different Groups Working On Vaccines Are Coming Together To Support And Collaborate

A lot of times when you have individual groups working on an issue, there can be an unfortunate tendency for them not to support each other and not to work as a coalition. But the different groups working on vaccine right have all started to come together and support each other and collaborate.

I can only address one specific aspect of vaccines where my expertise gives me the ability to make some progress, but I support the work and the investigation that other people are doing into glyphosate in vaccines, into aluminum in vaccines, into the schedule, the number of viruses. I mean scientifically I can support all of that work. I think groups just really put aside any differences and have really come together because we’re all here about the health and safety of our children.


What you’re saying sounds so familiar. When I was in the legislature 20 years ago, trying to get conscientious objection for parents to be able to choose just to change the schedule just to say, hey I don’t want to do this many doses in that short a time period just these few months in my newborn baby. Or maybe I don’t want to do Hep B because I want to wait until they’re of age that there is any chance of a blood transfusion or sex or whatever the parent’s decision was to say I want to put some of these off and not risk a reaction. I mean that was a pretty simple argument I thought to make but there wasn’t, even I mean not even as much as the attacks I got from a lot of the State, you know kind of we want to control everything and tell parents what to do.

The Issue of Aborted Babies And Vaccines

Apparatus, this issue of aborted babies and vaccines wasn’t an issue then that I knew of in the legislature anyway. I never brought it up because I didn’t know about it. That brings a whole other perspective to it. Not only the safety of your child and the not knowing what the real outcome will be with so many of these at the same time but now just the ethical consideration.

If you’re pro-life and you recognize life, you don’t want to inject your child with this let alone the scientific what happens when you put somebody else’s DNA into your body. I mean there are so many questions now that weren’t even there 20 years ago.

Dr. Deisher:

Oh absolutely. And besides the ethics of doing that and they don’t tell you what’s in there. They don’t say that there are there’s cellular debris and DNA fragments of aborted fetal DNA. They give it a name. So they’ll name the cell that’s used to manufacture the virus MRC 5 and they might say MRC 5 cellular debris and DNA fragments are there, but no one knows what MRC 5 is. Or they’ll use the term human diploid, but people don’t know that that’s a euphemism for a cell made from an aborted baby.

The Case of Dr. Stanley Plotktin Has Been A Catalyst For Many Things


I saw the part of the deposition with the doctor that admitted to using aborted babies in his vaccine research and apparently from that people are now willing to ask more questions. Has that been a catalyst for this? I forget the guy’s name but Kinner Plotkin or something like that?

Dr. Deisher:

Plotkin. Stanley Plotkin. I think that it has been a catalyst in many areas but particularly because he actually admitted that the babies in many cases are still alive when they are dissected. He admitted that in a court of law.

Now that’s another thing we’ve been working to educate people about and actually, I worked with David Daleiden was the one who told him you know that I think they’re harvesting these babies alive. They have to be, to be getting the cells that they’re getting for this research. When David first contacted me to get some advice about what was going on.

Women”€™s Rights Is Not The Issue

So, having Dr. Plotkin admit that is very powerful I think. It wakes people up. It’s barbaric and so many people want to make this, they don’t want to be involved, they don’t want to know about the aborted fetus cells because they see it as this Women’s Right. Right. Women’s reproductive choices. But that’s not the issue. The issue is that doing this is beneath the dignity of a civilized society.


Yeah, exactly right. It does to me at least, parallel to the issue of stem cell research that you were such a champion of and so I want to ask you how. It took years and years for that debate to finally come around to. I mean the science had to prove it really. The success of adult stem cell research and the failure of the embryonic stem cell research I guess finally directed the dollars towards adult stem cell research. But you and others were out there making the argument from the beginning that one is ethical the other is not.

And so I ask it in this way and in terms of a parallel of that that you were part of for decades, trying to push science in the right direction or the researchers in the right direction on that. Do you see that same kind of timeframe being necessary in this particular debate?

We Can Never Give Up The Debate On Ethics And Health Consequences

Dr. Deisher:

Oh, I think we never give up the debate it’s not just about ethics, which you never want to give up that debate either. But this has health consequences actually. So the fetal DNA fragments that contaminate these vaccines when we inject them into young children will reach levels higher than those necessary to activate a very high general systemic response.

Also, they will create antibodies to the human DNA that can cross-react and cause an autoimmune attack. So there’s that ethics we never want to give up on that. And there are the health consequences, and we just can’t be silent about that because too many children are being harmed.


Okay, I know this wasn’t the subject of our call today but when you mentioned the autoimmune part. Do you think that could be part of the reason for so many new autoimmune diseases that are happening right now? I mean there just seems to be a new one I’m hearing about every other month that’s out there. You think that’s a big part of it, is that is what’s now in the vaccines?

Autoimmune Disease Is Raising Because Of These Vaccines

Dr. Deisher:

Absolutely. I’ve been talking about this from what’s known about immunology and what’s called a toll-like receptor 9 for years. We know that these human fetal DNA fragments could bind to that receptor. We know what they could do. It’s well-known, but they’ve never measured it. Does it bind? Is it activate?

It wasn’t until January of this year because I was reading in a different field that I came across multiple publications that demonstrate unequivocally that yes, human fetal DNA at these concentration binds to that receptor.

It creates a massive immune response that is how labor is triggered. And those papers are back from the late 1990s, but they hadn’t come up in any of my searches. So this is actually new to me, and it’s just unequivocal proof that these contaminants are dangerous.


Dr. Deisher, I wish we had more time. I got to ask how can people follow your research. Do you have like a Facebook page that you share this on a regular basis that people can follow?

Dr. Deisher:

Well, we have a Facebook page, and I have to give credit to 2Pharm who does posts on that. We have a newsletter, a quarterly newsletter that goes out and we have a Website. www.soundchoice.org.


SoundChoice.org and now I’m looking that up as we are speaking and it’s easy to go on there. You can sign up and get the newsletter, donate there for more information and research to try to help with those things.

Dr. Diesher, God bless you. Thank you for your time. Thanks for coming on the day. Thanks for what you’re doing. I’d like to have you back again if we can. This is fascinating, and we want to support you in what you’re doing.

Dr. Deisher:

Would love to. Look forward to it.

Oftentimes We Forget Why America Was Founded As A Culture


We’re back now with David and Tim Barton. Special thanks to Dr. Dasher for joining us today.

David, Tim I mean obviously she knows her stuff knows what’s what she’s talking about and she’s actually surprised me there with some of the data and the evidence of it.

There was potentially some shady stuff going on, but it sounds like you know she’s been aware of this for a while. We’re trying to raise the alarm and people are just now paying attention. I know but I’m just now paying attention, and I’ve been in this issue of immunizations and parental choice for a while.


Well, and guys knowing we’re almost out of time, let me just throw out: I think oftentimes we forget why America was founded as a culture. We forgot why the Pilgrims come to America.

They were seeking religious freedom from a tyrannical government that was telling them what they had to believe, how they had to live their lives and they couldn’t live their life based on their religious convictions. We have situations now where the government is saying, no it should be federally mandated, you should have these things.

And we can discuss, is it good for kids to have measles vaccine. I understand we can have these discussions. But here’s the bottom line: if you’re telling me there’s vaccines that have parts of babies, that the babies were murdered in order to get these parts in them


By the way, I don’t why the use of the term debris. I don’t like having a vaccine that has debris floating around in it.

And what she was talking about the human debris I thought, oh my gosh. Now I get a picture. I get an image, and that changes everything.

We Got To Get Back To Understanding And Upholding That Principle


Well, so this is where to me it comes back to the rights of conscience. Where, were the reasons, so many early settlers came to America was so that they could follow their conscience. Their conscience; what is it they believe they owe to God.

So they want to be able to worship God, to follow God to live according to how they believe God’s call them to live. And if we now live in America where the government is saying that we are not giving you the freedom to follow your convictions.

You’re gonna have to take these human debris vaccines, and you’re going to have to inject your children and your family with them; we have forgotten what America was about which is religious freedom – the rights of conscience.

This is why America largely was founded and the people that largely founded or believed in this notion of religious liberty in the rights of conscience. We gotta get back to understanding and upholding that principle, or we’re gonna be in a lot of trouble in America.


Special thanks to Dr. Diesher for joining us today. We’ll have links to her website on our Website today. Sound Choice – a Pharmaceutical Institute, is the name of her organization. We’ll have links to that Website so you can study more. We encourage you to do a study and become informed and make wise decisions as parents.

I think Tim’s 100% right. It’s the essence, it’s in our American DNA if I can use that, on this particular program to have the freedom of religion and parental rights to be able to make these kinds of decisions.

Be sure and find out more and make informed decisions yourself and encourage your legislators to at least let you make that final decision. Nobody on this program is saying we shouldn’t have vaccines.

It’s the opposite; in fact, we think those can be very good things and have been used for very good things in our history as a nation. We’re just simply saying the state should not force things on you.

And certainly, we should not have unethical life taking things that are forced upon us as well. Thanks for listening today. We appreciate you listening to WallBuilders Live.

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