Abortions Continue As Pro-Life Counselor Arrested – With David Benham: We’ve continued to see the chaos of COVID-crackdowns, as citizens have been experiencing the consequences of elections. We’ve got to raise our voices against viewpoint discrimination and government overreach as we stand for our Constitutional rights. Tune in to hear this important interview.

Air Date: 04/16/2020

Guest: David Benham

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note: As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Ultimate Powers of Society

President Thomas Jefferson said, “I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves. And if we think they’re not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”

Faith and the Culture


Welcome to WallBuilders Live, the intersection of faith and the culture. Today is Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Is going to be a little different than our normal Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Typically, we have you send it in questions and David Barton, America’s premier historian answering those questions from a constitutional perspective, historical, biblical perspective, Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor joining in on that discussion and answering those questions. And then I’m Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. Typically, on Foundations of Freedom Thursday, I’m just kind of like the ping pong coach. I watch you go back and forth. I take your questions, I toss them to David, Tim, they answer them, I come back to you. Anyway, we’re not doing that today.

Today, we’ve got a really special interview with David Benham, this is going to kind of highlight one of the things that’s going on really across the country. Now, his story is coming from North Carolina. But as we’ve seen the chaos of the COVID crackdowns across the States, some States have said, you know, abortions can still go on, those clinics are, you know, somehow taking baby’s lives is essential, even though we’re trying to protect the vulnerable on one hand here, we’re not going to protect the vulnerable there. It doesn’t make sense. But then other States are saying no, you know, abortion clinics are not essential. You can have them. So, it’s different across the country, depending on who the leadership is there.


Yeah, this is the consequence of elections. So, you’ve had the governor of Texas say, hey, churches are essential services. And then you have governors like North Carolina saying no, no, abortions are essential services. And you got the Governor of Illinois saying no, no, cannabis production and cannabis sale is essential services. This is where elections do have consequences. And in North Carolina, there was a lot of money put in North Carolina. The former governor lost in a very narrow race and so this is what you see is the result. And particularly, when you look at larger cities, North Carolina, Charlotte was early out of the block some years ago, moving far left, pushing far left under President Obama. What happened with, just let’s have one bathroom, let’s not have gender; say we’re on the very early lead of that. So, there’s been a lot there.

Sanctity of Life

And Rick, you mentioned how the sanctity of life, kind of thing. It’s interesting that over the weekend, the football coach at Michigan, Jim Harbaugh said, you know, we’ve got this thing where we’re saying how important every life is and we’re taking all these precautions to protect lives, well, we’re not doing that at abortion clinics. And so, for Jim Harbaugh to come out very openly, being anti-abortion, that’s a big deal.

Well, some of the folks who are also anti-abortion is Charlotte, which is kind of a wacky left city from leadership perspective. Or the Benhambrothers, Jason and David Benham who are identical twins. They kind of made news six years ago when they were about to have a television show on HGTV.

They’re some of the most successful realtors in the nation, so they’re having this TV show about how to flip houses. And then right-wing watch got a hold of it and said wait a minute, these guys voted for the marriage amendment in North Carolina and they’re prolife as well. And they put so much pressure on the network that the network canceled the show, simply because these guys despite their great business talents, these guys were prolife and they voted for the marriage amendment, which most people in North Carolina did. But nonetheless, these guys were targeted.

Well, over the weekend, you had David Benham who was outside an abortion clinic, just a handful of them there. And they were outside praying and talking to people going in. They were keeping social distancing. They were making sure they were far apart and there were many of them in the group and for doing exactly what the guidelines say, they got arrested, which you know, how amazing is this. But this goes back to political leadership. Is the kind of leadership you elect in cities. Is the kind of leadership that you elect and states. And we’re really seeing the difference in philosophy come to bear right now during this COVID-19 thing.


Well, David is actually going to be with us when we come back from the break. David Benham, our special guest, is Foundations of Freedom Thursday and we’re talking about obviously fundamental freedoms of speech and assembly and being an even life in this case. So, stay with us, David Benham when we come back on WallBuilders Live.

Rightful Masters

Abraham Lincoln said, ”We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts; not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”


Many of you out there are under stay-at-home orders by your governor or your local health officials and maybe you’re looking for something to do during this time. One of the most important things you can do as a citizen is to make sure that you know your rights, you know when they’ve been violated and you’re the better prepared to defend and assert them. To do that, you’ve got to study the Constitution and the history behind it

Constitution Alive!

Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green does exactly that. We take you into the WallBuilders library, we bring all those resources to life. And then we go out to Philadelphia to Independence Hall and right there in the room where the Constitution and the Declaration were put together, we bring it to life, we relive it and we make sure that we as citizens know what our part is in preserving these freedoms for future generations. At this time in our nation, it is so important to know the proper role of government and what we as citizens should be doing at this time.

If you haven’t done Constitution Alive, check it out at wallbuilders.com. You can get the DVD set there, we’ll get it out in the mail to you as soon as we can. And you can study it at home or you can go to constitutioncoach.com and become a Constitution coach today. We’ve got a free license for you right now, where you can sign up as a Constitution host and be the catalyst in your community to bring back these biblical and historical and constitutional values. And what you do is you sign up as a host and then you get your friends and family together on Zoom, we coach you on how to do it and you’re able to create community and also study the Constitution at the same time. Do this and we will be able to pick up the pieces on the other side of this crisis and rebuild our nation even stronger than it was before. Check it out today at constitutioncoach.com.

Power is Inherent in the People

Thomas Jefferson said, “The Constitution of most of our States and of the United States assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves. That is their right and duty to be at all times armed, that they are entitled to freedom of person; freedom of religion; freedom of property and freedom of press.”


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live, thanks for staying with us. We got David Benham with us. Hey brother, good to have you man. Thanks for coming on.


Rick. It’s an honor to be on, I appreciate you having me.


What do you got to go get arrested to get you on WallBuilders Live, is that the only way we get to getting your time?


I’d be on WallBuilders Live every week, if you’d let me. But I’m honored to be on with you and I sure hate the fact that I had to be on here because I got arrested.


Oh, well for a good cause and I watched the video. First of all, you know, just I praise the Lord for your example and the tone with which you handle the situation and the attitude. Holy Spirit inspired, brother. And man, I’m shocked at what’s happening in our country right now. And your situation I think is something we’ve got to get people to understand what was happening here. This wasn’t you guys, you know, just flaunting the law or any of those things. You all were following the orders of the you know, social distancing and all that. You were doing counseling that is needed, that is essential and yet they still chose to take you to jail. I guess like six of you got arrested, right?

Welcome David Benham


Yeah, it was, total of eight of us. But you know, it’s interesting because a federally recognized public charity like ours, Cities for Life, where we do sidewalk counseling and then plug mothers into all of these life affirming services from medical support, housing assistance, adoption, the whole nine yards, we are considered an essential organization inside the COVID restrictions. So, it’s not even a gathering of 10. It’s not even forcing us to practice social distancing. For instance, if you go to Home Depot, if you go to a grocery store, heck, you could go to ABC liquor store, they don’t have any of those social distancing laws, because they’re an essential business. So, a public charity is the exact same way, so we didn’t even have to do that.

However, as a ministry organization, we said, you know what, let’s go above and beyond and let’s still practice social distancing. So, we only had three sidewalk counselors that we actually took sidewalk chalk and marked off 10 foot increments so that we could stay socially distant just to go above and beyond. And yet, regardless of those two facts, I still got arrested. Once I got arrested, they started arresting others and everybody was socially distant. And it was other people that were not even affiliated with Cities for Life that just happened to be there across the street, praying on their own.


Just think about, I mean, just a dress right now the practical aspect of this. I mean, let’s just look at the contrast. People can go to Home Depot and get the stuff to work on their yard or whatever they’re going to do. The abortionist can certainly go on killing babies. You guys are trying to serve someone that’s in maybe the most difficult position of their life making this incredibly difficult decision. And you’re giving them life affirming solutions and counseling and all of this help when they maybe feel like there’s nobody else to help them and they want to take you out of that situation and not allow you to do that.

No Social Distancing in Abortion Clinics


So, think of it this way, Rick. You look at the abortion facility and the one in Charlotte is the busiest one in the southeast, busier than Miami, busier than Atlanta. Inside the facility, people are packed into the waiting room. They’re in the lobby, no social distancing. They’re getting abortions, walk into their cars with escorts, no social distancing. Okay, so you’ve got all of that happening.

Now, imagine a group of socially distanced sidewalk counselors that are there with hand sanitizer, very quietly, peacefully praying. And as mothers walk in and walk out, we simply offer them a choice. “Ma’am, we’re here to help you.” “Ma’am, if you come back out, we’re still going to be here to help you and plug you into a mentor network.” Now, they chose to arrest us. And that’s why in the video, as you’ll see on our Facebook page, Benhambrothers.com.

If you go into that, I said to the officer, I said, go into the abortion, if you’re arresting me for breaking an order of 10 which I wasn’t. I said, if you’re arresting me, then go to the abortion facility and make the arrest in there. And then he said to me, he said, I think you heard it.

He said, “Sir, I don’t have the authority to go in there.” And I said, yeah, but you got the authority to come out here and bully and intimidate us, which is exactly, Rick, what they were doing. That’s prolife Christian across this country, it’s not just Charlotte. It’s happening in cities across the country. And what this is really showing is an Erie plan. It’s almost like a calculated, orchestrated plan.

Viewpoint Discrimination

Now, I know that they’re not really orchestrating these things, but we certainly know spiritual forces are, but a plan to go against prolife voices. It’s clear viewpoint discrimination. It is absolutely government overreach, utilizing this COVID crisis that is real, that I am practicing social distancing; my family, we stayed in our home, we are not going to worship services and all these other things, we’re trying to honor these laws. But even when we are well within our constitutional rights on many levels, they’re coming after us. And it’s happening in cities all across this country.


Well, you nailed it and that’s exactly the right phrase. It’s viewpoint discrimination, because they’re specifically stopping you from doing what is essential and needed and then not stopping these other folks that are clearly. And even just from, I mean, I was watching as you were being arrested, I’m thinking how many people you had to come in contact with as they arrested you.

And so now we’re taking these officers out of where we really do need them and other places, they’re having to spend time there, they’re having to, you know, touch and have contact with people all because of this misapplication of what I think is, you know, overreaching in the local orders anyway. But it’s just impractical too. I mean, it’s putting more people at risk.

So, it doesn’t make sense and I think you’re right. We got to raise awareness to the fact that there is a viewpoint discrimination here. We’re more targeting churches and individuals that are, you know, exercising these constitutional rights and have a prolife viewpoint than we are anybody else.


I mean, you even see this in New York City with Mayor De Blasio when he was threatening churches and synagogues, I’ll shut you down permanently, he said. Now, did he say that to mosque? Were mosques exempt? Of course, they were. He didn’t say any of that to a mosque. Now, look, I’m all for it if Muslims want to go and gather. But don’t you dare, Mayor and other radical Left governors threatened churches and synagogues. It’s abundantly clear what’s happening.

Utilizing COVID Crisis to Extend Abortion Access

And here’s what’s also very telling. The Attorney General for North Carolina and 19 other Attorneys General, 20 of them petitioned Washington D.C. they petitioned our federal government to extend abortion access in the midst of COVID-19, including being able to have mail and aborted patient pills sent out without a doctor’s order. And this is insanity. They’re actually utilizing the COVID crisis to extend abortion. And while they’re doing that, they’re beating us into submission like whack a mole. And it’s high time, Rick, I’m sorry, I’m getting passionate…


You’re spot on, man. Go for it.


It’s high time we step up and speak. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who 75 years ago was hung by a piano wire in Nazi Germany, because he stood against an agenda to attack innocent people like the Jews and to destroy his nation Germany. He stood against it. And it’s high time that we stand. Dietrich Bonhoeffer said it’s not enough to help hurting people, but we must also stop the things that hurt them. And this attack on our freedom, this attack on our constitutional rights is going to hurt not only us, but it’s going to hurt our children and it’s going to hurt our grandchildren. So, I’m just calling for Americans, I’m calling for Christmas to wake up, nap out of it. Let’s be a voice. Let’s stand for two things. Number one, our rights as American citizens and number two, our responsibility as Christian to be a voice for the most vulnerable among us, the preborn.


David, you know, at the same time that they are trying to expand abortion and kill more babies, out of the other side of their mouth, they’re talking about the reason they’re implementing all these draconian measures is to save life, it’s to save the vulnerable among us. How do you balance that? I mean, the most vulnerable among us are the unborn. I thought Andrew Cuomo had become suddenly prolife when he was saying all this stuff about every life matters.


I’m telling you, it’s a total depraved mind. You look at it in Romans chapter one. We have denied truth. We have a darkened heart as a nation. We’ve displaced God, now you know, we are on the center of our own throne of our hearts as a nation. Then we have a degrading passions and a depraved mind. We have a depraved mind when it comes to this.

Ministry Is Essential

You know, you look at it, Rick. We as Americans have taken drastic measures to alter our behavior to preserve our own lives. When are we as Americans going to take drastic measures and alter our behavior to protect the most vulnerable among us? Listen to what happened when the Magister… I stood before the Magistrate. After I got booked, got my mug shot, they had the cost on me.

I’m standing before the Magistrate just after they took my cuffs off. And she says to me, why were you out there? And I said, Ma’am, I have every right to be out there. If abortions are essential, my ministry that is helping these mothers is essential. And she said, listen to what she said. She goes, “Well, what if you would have given COVID-19 to one of those mothers that were pregnant and that baby would have gotten infected.” I said, “Ma’am, that mother is going there to take the life of that baby, right?”

And I said, “and we’re there to offer her a choice to give life to that baby. And now you’re telling me that I would in fact, infect that baby and hurt that baby when in fact, the baby was actually headed toward death anyway.” So, she just looked back at me like in stunned silence. And I’m like, that’s just insane that you would even say that.

This is the type of depraved mind that we are seeing manifests right before our very eyes. And here’s where I really kind of just get down to. Martin Luther King Jr. once said, he said, “The Church must be reminded that it is neither the master nor the servant of the State, rather it is the conscience of the State.” And this magistrate unconscionably, said, how could you possibly infect that baby by giving it COVID-19 by being there to, in essence, give life to that baby?”

It’s so depraved. What that realizes is that we as the church have not properly been the conscience of this nation. And so, it ultimately relies on us to step down in a very humble repentance spirit and say, these children deserve a voice, these mothers deserve an option to have some help alongside their unplanned pregnancy.

Sign the Petition


You said something a couple of minutes ago. I got to get you to repeat as we close out and I also want to send people to the petition. But how did you say? You said something to the effect of we’ve radically changed and altered our lives. Say that again, because that was so powerful.


Yeah. As Americans, we have radically changed our behaviors to protect our own lives, yet as we refuse to radically alter our behavior to protect the lives of the vulnerable, the most vulnerable among us who do not even have a voice. This is what this needs to show us in this COVID crisis. Is that when our lives are on the line, we’ll stop economy, we’ll stop the entire society just to protect ourselves. Are we willing to do that for the most vulnerable among us? And you know, Jesus said, “Greater love has no one than this, that they lay their lives down for their friends.” And so, if we should alter our behavior, we should drastically change our behavior to protect the most vulnerable.


So good, man. Alright, there is a petition at America Stands for Life, is actually action Ted cruz.org/Americastandsforlife. We’ll have that link in our website, wallbuilderslive.com today. We can stand with you in this way, David and send that message to our local leaders. I was so glad to see our mutual friend, Ted Cruz immediately respond to this and say how unconstitutional this is and the kind of tyranny that this represents.

We have to stand up immediately. These kinds of abuses are happening all across the country. It’s only going to stop if we the people let our voices be heard in this petition, is a great way to do that. David, God bless you, man. Thanks for standing strong. You know, how is the mug shot anyway, I hadn’t got to see the mug shot, how is it looked?

First Mug Shot


My first mug shot ever, I tried to smile, they wouldn’t let me smile. But anyway, I think it’s okay. I tried my best to make it good.


Alright. Alright. Well, hey man, get back to us about the legalities here. Like what’s going to happen, are they going to continue to press charges and all that? We’d love to have you back on in the coming weeks as we come to grips with this. Hopefully, it’s a wakeup call, man. I mean, you know, hopefully, people, with that contrast that you just presented really, I think can prick hearts and say, wait a minute, we’re going to all this trouble to save the vulnerable among us and yet we lose more to abortion every day than you know, we’ll lose to COVID and the entire… Yeah. Yeah. Alright, brother. Appreciate you, man. Thanks for coming on, let’s do it again soon.


Yes, sir. God bless you, Rick.


That’s David Benham. Stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

The Greatest Political Privilege

President Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I studied the Constitution, the more I realized and no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”

One-Room Schoolhouse

Hey friends, this is Rick Green from WallBuilders Live and I have had so many requests about what in the world could we be studying at home right now? You know, I got the kids at home, they’re normally in school. Or if you homeschool, you’re looking for additional material. One-Room Schoolhouse. It is a great new series WallBuilders is putting out where you literally get a tour of the WallBuilders library as Tim Barton and Jonathan Ritchie bring history to life. There’s a couple of resources on this.

You can go to YouTube and search for WallBuilders and look for One-Room Schoolhouse. You can go to our Facebook page and get it right there on Facebook as we do it live each Monday and sometimes additional days from there. And then you can also just go to wallbuilders.com, scroll down to the bottom and we’ll be posting the videos as they come out. This is such a great way to learn and a great way for you to share with others. Gather the family around, watch the One-Room Schoolhouse and learn some great history. It’ll be vitally important to restoring our nation and bringing back these principles that made America great in the first place. Check it out One- Room Schoolhouse at wallbuilders.com.

Questions of Power

Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man that bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”



Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks to David Benham joining us today. We’re back with David and Tim Barton. Guys, I mean, Charlotte is crazy, like you said, but hopefully, this will shine a light on a little bit of the good versus evil going on there.


Well, you consider how crazy it is. You’re across the street from the clinic, you’re praying and there’s only a handful of you. You’re not part of Benham’s group and you still get arrested for praying on the sidebar. Now, this is a Foundation of Freedom Thursday. And the thing that strikes me here is, how I don’t know how many edges I can use, but how bad is it when you cops don’t know the constitution well enough to know that you have a guarantee for freedom of speech, that you have a guarantee for freedom religion. I don’t care what your city ordinances are. Your first oath is to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

They Don’t Care About the Constitution


Well, and I would even counter that. I don’t know always that, is that people don’t know the constitution well enough? I think it’s that they don’t care what the Constitution says. Because when we…


It was bad too.


Was that, and it’s maybe worse. Right? We live in this era where, kind of a postmodern world, where truth is what I want it to be, it’s what I think it is, It’s how I feel. This is what kids learn in schools, it’s what we promote in culture around us. And right, I mean, we even talk about. There are US Supreme Court Justices, there are federal Judges who talk about the living Constitution and the Constitution is what the Judges say that it is. Well, if Judges can do that, right, police officers, if they have the bad ideology and worldview, they might go, you know what, well, I can do what I want and you don’t have rights here.

And there have been cases over the last week or two were police officers on record have said that your rights are forfeited, you don’t have right because of COVID-19, these other things going on. Obviously, that’s utterly ridiculous. It’s not what the Constitution says. But in a culture and world that doesn’t believe in truth anymore, it’s not totally surprising that we don’t uphold the Constitution, because there are principles, there are truths in the Constitution and rights in the Constitution that we would say have to be upheld, but now we’re questioning what those are.

I do want to point out the thing, the quote here from Bonhoeffer that was so powerful. “It’s not enough to help hurting people, we must stop the thing that is hurting them.” And certainly, this is the time we can look at culture, the world around us church and say, this is when we want to be the ones to help, not just help hurting people, but let’s find the things that are causing that hurt and stop it.

The Irony

Certainly, abortion is one of those chief things, which is why, man, the irony of what the Judge stopped him with, right of you could have given COVID-19 to a mom and that could have killed the child and he’s going, wait a second. Right? They were there to kill the child. What are you talking about?

This is where you see a lot of the hypocrisy and the intellectual dishonesty, sometimes from the other side, arguing positions that don’t make any sense whatsoever. And we’ve talked about so often on this show, we need to question the other side and make them defend their position. Because more times than not, their position is not defensible and they don’t know it because they’ve never been made to defend it, which in this case, the Judge shut up because she realized, yeah, that was a stupid statement.


Well, knowing what’s defensible and what’s not is what Foundations of Freedom Thursday is all about diving into those constitutional freedoms that we all enjoy, but we have to defend them and to defend them, we have to know what they are. Well, you don’t have to know the proper way to constitutionally defend them. And you actually go watch the video of David Benham being arrested. He’s actually stayed in his constitutional rights in a very peaceful way and calm and collected and articulate and I thought, did a fantastic job and, frankly, has set a great example for us all across the country on how you live out your freedom.

How Do You Fight Back?

And when it’s confronted, how do you respond and how do you fight back? You should fight back. And that means using the peaceable tools that we have at our fingertips and actually, letting your voice be heard, which is part of what, you know, WallBuilders Live is certainly all about and why this program is so important, to get that truth out there and to tell these kind of stories. We need your help to do that.

If you would go to wallbuilderslive.com today and click on that contribute button, it will go a long way to coming alongside us and helping this voice be amplified, to tell these stories, to teach people these foundational freedoms so that we can preserve America’s constitutional republic. I’m a strong believer that tough times do reveal our character as individuals, but also as nations and these tough times have revealed flaws in the character of America in terms of our foundation, the cracks in our foundation, where our leaders that we’ve chosen have been willing to overstep their boundaries to seize power we never gave them and to act in very unconstitutional ways.

Abortions Continue As Pro-Life Counselor Arrested – With David Benham

And even worse as we the people seem to be cheering them on and asking them to do that. Well, we have got to change that. We’ve got to make sure people know what their constitutional rights are and they know how to properly defend them. That’s what WallBuilders Live is all about, looking at that biblical, constitutional historical perspective. Help us spread that word, help us teach a new generation these things and help us preserve America’s constitutional republic.

Go to wall builders live.com today, we sure appreciate you listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.

Samuel Adams said, “The liberties of our country and the freedom of our civil constitution are worth defending against all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”