Is Abortion A Constitutional Issue: Its Foundations of Freedom Thursday, a special day of the week where we get to answer questions from you, the listeners! Always answering your questions from constitutional principles! Tune in today as we answer your most pressing questions!

Air Date: 10/03/2019

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Liberties and Freedom Are Worth Defending

Samuel Adams said, “€œThe liberties of our Country and the freedom of our civil Constitution are worth defending against hazards. And, it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”€

What is WallBuilders?


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Now even right there, if you’re a first-time listener, you heard that and are like, “€œ”€˜WallBuilders?”€™ What in the world is “€˜WallBuilders?”€™”€ Well, WallBuilders is not a construction company.

We are not building the wall on the border, though we have some pretty strong opinions about making sure we’re strong nation and have a good, strong border as well. But, that’s not what this “€œWallBuilders”€ name is about. “€œWallBuilders”€ comes from a scripture in Nehemiah that says, “€œArise and rebuild the walls that we may no longer be a reproach.”€

You see, friends, you’ve got to have a good, strong foundation in a nation. Back then, it was those outer walls that made that city strong. Today it’s that foundation of good principles of liberty, good structures in your political and economic systems, to make a nation strong.

America had that, was founded with those. Certainly, we have our mistakes and things we did wrong. But, those principles, better than anyone else on the planet or any nation in history, produced incredible results.

Restoring the Foundation

Yet, there have been cracks in the foundation. There has been an erosion of those principles and of that foundation. So, 30 years ago, David Barton was reading that in Nehemiah.

And, the Lord said, “€œRead it over and over and over again.”€ So, he read the book of Nehemiah every day for a month, and so many things jumped out at him about how to strengthen the culture and strengthen the society. He started this ministry “€œWallBuilders”€ to rebuild that foundation, to “€œarise and rebuild the walls that we may no longer be a reproach.”€

Here we are now with WallBuilders Live! our radio program that goes all across the nation and, actually, around the world. We’re on stations in every state and in many nations, where people are rediscovering the roots of America, learning what we’re all about as a nation, what makes us strong, and how to restore those constitutional foundations.

Action Steps

You can be a part of that. Every day on this program we talk about action steps: things you can do to make a difference in your community, state, and nation. And, we would ask that you do that.

Even as you’re listening today, be thinking about what you can do in your community to make a difference, how you can step up as a citizen. We will equip and inspire you to do that. Visit our website

There, you can learn more and also make a contribution. I ask for that without hesitation because I know we’re good stewards of those contributions. We take that and invested in the culture: in pastors going to Washington D.C. and learning more about the spiritual heritage of our nation; in young leaders needing that foundation so that they can be the ones running for office soon or leading in the culture; in making movies and television shows; and business all the areas of the culture.

We invest it in educating Americans across the nation. We have Constitution classes going all over the place, hundreds of them across the nation, where people are diving into Constitution Alive! with David Barton and myself, Tim Barton, and others to learn about those foundations and then take action.

You can be a part of all that. Go to today. Get some of those materials, make that contribution that makes his program possible.

Forgot to mention my name is Rick Green. I”€™m a former Texas legislator. David Barton is America’s premier historian and here with us today, the founder of WallBuilders. As I mentioned earlier, Tim Barton is with us, a national speaker, pastor, and president of WallBuilders.

Send In Your Questions

Let”€™s have some fun today diving into those questions. We encourage our listeners to send in more questions to [email protected]. If you”€™ve got something on your mind about the Founding Fathers, the nation, and how to apply those constitutional, biblical, historical perspectives, then send it into [email protected].

First one is actually a response to something we talked about on a previous Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Here’s the question: “€œIn the July 25, 2019 Foundations of Freedom program on Thursday, David made a comment that, to me, implied abortion was not a constitutional issue. My question is Why not since it deprives someone of their life?”€

So, guys, I don’t even remember what the question was in July. We may have been talking about the 14th Amendment or something. I don’t remember exactly how we got to that point. But, what would you say about whether or not abortion is a constitutional issue?

Abortion: a Constitutional Issue?


I think it’s not a constitutional issue because it’s higher than the Constitution. It’s a God-given right. Therefore, the Constitution can recognize it and put it off limits for government, which is what the original intent was of the Founders: that if there is a God-given, natural right”€”whether it is the right of self-defense, religious conscience, or the right to life”€”government cannot touch that. They cannot mess with it.

Now, if we’re talking about being deprived of life, that’s not just abortion but can also be through, say, the death penalty. But, when it comes to someone who is already born, we deprive them of life through a constitutional process and the courts. You have to go through the Due Process Clauses of the Fourth and Eighth Amendments.

See, an unborn child does not have the opportunity to go through the Fourth through Eighth Amendments, all the Due Process Clauses. So, for an unborn child, I think it’s not a constitutional issue but is above the Constitution. It’s an off-limits issue: a God-given right to life.

Therefore, we humans don’t have anything to say about it. But, I think it’s different when you get into an adult process.

A God-Given Right


But, you’re not saying, in the sense of”€”the Constitution should recognize and protect it, because the Founding Fathers said in the Declaration that the reason government exists is to protect our God-given rights.


That’s right.


And, the very first of the God-given rights is the right to life. So, it’s totally a constitutional issue, in the sense of, it should be protected constitutionally, but not because the Constitution grants what this is. No, because this was something that God did.

And, government’s job is supposed to protect the rights that God gave, the first of which is the right to life. So, your argument that this is something beyond the Constitution, only in the sense that this is not a manmade thing. However, because this was a right that God gave, it is and should be constitutionally protected because the role of the government is to protect the God-given right.


That’s right.


So, this is where there would be that confusion of going, “€œWait a second. Isn”€™t that government’s job?”€ Well, if that’s the question from the listener, then yes. Absolutely, that is the government’s job; therefore, it is a constitutional issue.

However, the idea of the origins of life is beyond the Constitution. And, so the Constitution doesn’t get to speak to this issue, only protect what God has already done. And that, Dad, is where your argument would be that this is above the Constitution.

But, I think, just for clarity’s sake, we’d say, “€œNo, this is a constitutional issue, only in the sense that the Constitution should protect this God-given right.”€


All right. Excellent answer. We”€™ve got a quick break, and then we’re back to our questions from the audience.

Stay with us, folks. The next one is about ICE. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live!

Greatest Political Privilege

President Calvin Coolidge said, “€œThe more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege ever afforded to the human race.”

Front Sight Handgun Training Course

Hey friends! Rick Green here, from WallBuilders Live! What do Dennis Prager, Larry Elder, Ben Shapiro, Rick Green, Tim Barton, David Barton – what do all these folks have in common other than the fact that they’re conservative commentators that defend the Constitution and educate America on the Constitution?

They’re all raving about Front Sight Firearms Training Institute. In fact, if you go to my website right now today at, you can watch the video of Dennis Prager training at Front Sight, or Larry Elder, or Tim Barton, or myself out there training at Front Sight. It’s an opportunity for you to learn how to defend yourself and your family to make sure that you are ready and able to do that. It is a fantastic place to train. They train 30 to 40,000 people a year, and they’re just wonderful to work with.

And, you can go with us! We’re headed back out. We’re going to have a great time out there as the WallBuilders family and if you’re a supporter of WallBuilders, we have an amazing deal for you. It”€™s actually going to cost you 1/10th the normal price to attend this two day handgun training because you”€™re going with us. And, you”€™ll also get the Constitution crash course. I”€™ll be teaching on the Constitution, you”€™ll get the intellectual ammunition that you need to defend the Second Amendment and our Constitution. As well as getting the physical training on how to defend yourself and your family.

It”€™s For Everyone   

And, this is for everyone – guys, gals, everyone should take this class. No matter how much you”€™ve shot your whole life or if you”€™ve never touched a gun, learn how to defend your family. We”€™re going to be going several times throughout the year and we would love to have you be a part of that. Check it out at today to find out the dates, get all the specifics, and get all of your questions answered. Check out today to join us on this Front Sight trip for both your constitutional and handgun defense training.

Be At All Times Armed

Thomas Jefferson said, “€œThe Constitution s of most of our states, and of the United States, assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. That they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.”€


We”€™re back here on WallBuilders Live! Thanks for staying with us on Foundations of Freedom Thursday. We appreciate your questions.

Send them in to [email protected]. Here”€™s our next question. It has to do with ICE. It”€™s from a listener.


Let me pause, guys. If we’re gonna pick favorite ice, I like the small, little pieces of ice like Sonic has. It’s easier to chew and eat; it’s delicious.

I’m a fan of ice. It keeps you awake when you”€™re sleepy and makes your drink cold.


This is Foundations of Freedom Thursday where we deal with constitutional issues. Somehow–

ICE or Ice?


Wait a second. George Washington also was a fan of ice. He liked it in the cream form, which I also am a fan of the ice cream form as well.

So, this is totally Founding-Father related.


I think the problem here is that Tim didn’t get to stop at Sonic on his way into the studio today. He’s missing his flavored, slushy, kind-of thing. And so, his brain is on that instead of on Foundations of Freedom Thursday.


I mean, how can you not be supportive of ice cream, though? Regardless of what day it is, I’m a fan of ice cream. So, you scream; I scream; we all scream for ice cream.


Or yogurt.


We may have an intervention in here.


I think we need to have yogurt or ice cream delivered to the studio for each show. Then, we’ll be able to stay on topic. That’s what Tim and I are asking David to do here.


Did I misunderstand the question?

What Are the Democrats Trying to do?


I thought it was a good side trail. I started to say “€œsegue,”€ but no; it would be the opposite of a segue.

Okay, here’s what he said: “€œI heard from a radio broadcaster today that the goal of the Democrats is to do the following. Number one: get rid of ICE.”€

And, I don’t think he means from Sonic. “€œGet rid of ICE, open borders, grant amnesty to those who cross, give those same people citizenship. And, by giving those people amnesty and citizenship, they’re hoping they will vote for Democrats and basically eliminate the Republican Party. How realistic is that scenario to happen?”€

That’s a long question, guys. But, I think you follow the logic of the question. Is this what the Democrats are trying to do?


Those four things, to get it all done, is not very likely. But, to get parts of it done, it’s already happening. I mean look at California.

A Look at California

They’ve got open borders, grant amnesty to those who cross, give those same people states citizenship. They haven’t been able to get rid of ICE, because that’s a federal entity. But, all the rest of it, they’ve already done.


Although, they will not uphold the laws for ICE.


That’s right.


California actually has these cities where they’re not going to uphold existing federal law. So, when ICE sees that somebody got arrested and says, “€œHey, would you please hold them while we”€™re on our way,”€ they release these criminals back on the street before ICE can get there and take hold of these prisoners.

So, they very much are anti-ICE and these laws, even though some of this doesn’t directly apply to them.


So, while it is happening in places like California, it’s definitely not happening in places like Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, or elsewhere. It all depends on who your state leaders are. And so, your Democrat states think this is a good idea, because statistically speaking, we do know that those that are new across the border, whether they be naturalized immigrants or illegal immigrants, tend to vote Democrat.

Federal Lawsuits Against Sanctuary Cities

And, that’s just the numbers that are there. So, they see this as a good fishing hole for them to go get some more votes. But, as far as actually getting it done, it’s not going to happen, because there are federal lawsuits against some of these sanctuary cities that won’t do what the federal law requires. Those lawsuits probably will be won; but, it might be years.

I mean, look at the fact that just aboout a month or two ago–how long ago was it, Rick, when Catherine Engelbrecht with True the Vote, when the IRS came after her? You know, Lois Lerner came after all the conservative groups.


Yes. Seven or eight years ago, a long drawn out legal battle.


Yeah, I mean, we finally got it done. But gosh, for eight years it’s been in limbo. So, it’s probably going to be like that.

So, I don’t think it’s gonna be a situation where they can get it all done. But, that is their objective; they will do as much of it as they can. And, in states where they have control, they will ignore the federal laws and even their own state laws to get this done.

So, for them, it”€™s “€œthe end justifies the means.”€ Democrats are not very good at what used to be called “€œLaw and Order candidates.”€ I mean, that’s not where they are.

Lawless and Disorder Candidates

They’re kind of “€œlawless and disorder candidates;”€ that kind of seems to be where they trend now. Nonetheless, that would be the way I think that we would answer what’s going to happen with those four issues.

Are the Democrats really after it? Yes. Will they get it done? It kind of depends: state level, yes; federal level, no.


Well, definitely good, too, just to know why they would want to do that. Because, sometimes I see some of their actions and think How can you say you love the country then support these kind of actions? But, if you understand the endgame for them, you go, “€œOh, okay; it’s all about personal power.”€

It’s about them having political power. That’s what it’s about, not what’s good for the country. So, when you know the end of what they’re trying to achieve, you can make a little more sense of why they’re taking some of the steps they are taking.

Our next question, guys, I think it’s the shortest question I’ve read to you all in quite some time. So, thank you to whoever sent this in. I don’t see your name on it; but, I love short questions.

What would it take for the U.S. to leave the UN?

Here we go. “€œThank you for your awesome program.”€ I also like it when they say that. Here’s the question: “€œWhat would it take for the U.S. to leave the UN?”€


Well, it’s kind of like getting an end to the Department of Education. There’s a lot of talk about it; but, it never happens. And so, whether it was under President Reagan, President Bush 41, President Bush 43; conservatives talk about it all the time, and it never gets done.

And, I don’t think it’s going to get done. I think that there are people who say it sends the wrong signals, the isolationist stuff : “€œWe’ve got to be willing to talk to other nations to be able to stay on the same page.”€ Well, yeah, some of that.

But, I really do appreciate what the Trump administration has done. They have done things that make the UN look completely stupid, which it is and many, many, many areas. I mean, in the last 10 years, I think, the UN has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than all the other nations in the world combined.




I mean, what’s wrong with condemning Iran, Korea, or all the genocide that’s happening in Burma? No, no, no; it’s all about Israel. That’s stupid; come on, guys.

Idiotic Human Rights Panel

So, the Trump administration has done a really good job of pointing that out. The Trump administration has also defunded the UN by hundreds of millions of dollars. So, the UN is now having to carry some of their own water, which is hard for them.

They like living on the United States. We have also pointed out how idiotic their civil rights, Human Rights Panel is to the poor. And, by the way, grab this.

The Human Rights Panel at the UN is made up of representatives from China, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Libya, and all those bastions of absolute civil-right protectionism (scoffing)–hardly. And, for the first time, we left that position. We have left some many positions at the UN because they’re not worth anything.

So, we’ve embarrassed the UN in a great way. This goes back to something Ronald Reagan used to say: “€œSunshine is the best disinfectant.”€ And so, as the United States under the Trump administration, has started drawing attention to some of the idiocy of the UN, they’ve been so embarrassed, they’ve actually had to make some reforms, which is good.

It”€™s Like the Department of Education

So, I don’t think we ever get them fully defunded. It probably will never happen. Again, it’s like the Department of Education: it would be really cool, because that’s supposed to be a state issue, not a federal one.

That’s not an enumerated power in the Constitution. And, we never had one until Jimmy Carter gave us one back in the late “€™70s. So, how did we go 200 years without a Department of Education? We had it at the state level.


And, you’re right, David. You mentioned it earlier. I mean, we talked for years about getting rid of it.

Presidential candidate after presidential candidate, Governor–in fact, the Republican party, 20 years ago even, had it as a major item to get rid of the Department of Education because it is nowhere in the Constitution. In fact, just the other night, I was piping in via web to one of our Constitution classes up, actually at our friend Ron McCoy, who’s been on the program multiple times. He is a pastor out there in California and mayor of Thousand Oaks.

They got 160 people, by the way, getting together once a week to study Constitution Alive! One hundred and sixty people every week.


I love it.


Isn”€™t that awesome. Anyway, we were talking about this issue of the Department of Education, because one of the students ask about it. And, it went from being top-of-the-food chain for Republicans, to the We’re going to get rid of this, to Republicans now spend as much on the Department of Education as Democrats.

Political Pressure


Yeah, they do. And, it’s because of political pressure. They’re not necessarily principled-driven in this area and don’t understand the Constitution.

But, it is the kind of thing that I think we are making progress on. This is gonna be an incremental thing. By the way, I will point out and say “€œkudos”€ to Congresswoman Kay Granger.

Years ago we were doing an event in Israel called “€œRestoring Honor”€ that Glenn Beck hosted. The UN was going to vote to try to impose a two-state solution on Israel, which means Israel does not get to determine its own fate but the UN would determine it for them. And at that point, when we said, “€œWe gotta get the world together over in Israel and stand with Israel,”€ we had 74 nations show up.

Good Reforms Are Being Made

At that point, Congresswoman Kay Granger said, “€œYou know what? I’m in charge of the subcommittee that funds the UN and have let them know that if they vote to impose that two-state solution on Israel, I will make sure that we totally defund them.”€ And, guess what; they did not impose that two-state solution on Israel.

So, really, there are good reforms being made. I mean, it”€™s the kind of stuff you don’t hear much in the news. But, the UN is becoming more of a joke on itself; so, they’re having to take themselves seriously.

And, those reforms are coming very much because of what the Trump administration has done to embarrass them over their own idiocy.


Guys, quick break. We have time for one more question from the audience when we come back. Stay with us; you’re listening to WallBuilders Live!

Be At All Times Armed

Thomas Jefferson said, “€œThe Constitution s of most of our states, and of the United States, assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. That they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.”€

Biographical Sketches 

Hi friends! This is Tim Barton of WallBuilders.This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. I know, oftentimes as parents, we”€™re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

If you remember back in the Bible, the Book of Hebrews it has the Faith Hall of Fame, where they outlined the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity and our faith as well.

I wanted to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called, “€œThe Courageous Leaders Collection“€ and this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers.

There’s a second collection called, “€œHeroes of History“€ in this collection you read about people like Benjamin Franklin, Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, the list goes on and on.

This is a great collection for your young person to have and read. And, it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at

Greatest Political Privilege

President Calvin Coolidge said, “€œThe more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”€


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live! Thanks for staying with us for Foundations of Freedom Thursday”€™s final segment of the day. It”€™s time for the final question from the audience.

This one comes from Linda in Richwood, Texas. She said, “€œI recently formed a nonprofit called “€œNational Motto Project”€ in order to get a bank account set up to handle donations, order posters, and other things {so we can} distribute laminated posters to teachers in public schools, according to Texas Education Code 1.004.

National Motto Project

“€œAnd, I have framed quite a few as gifts to superintendents, judges, and businesses. This is all inspired by a Good News report I heard on WallBuilders Live! several times over the last few year, especially regarding Arkansas and Louisiana victories concerning the national motto “€œIn God We Trust.”€ Thanks to you, God, and generous donors, we distributed nearly 600 to our local community in time for the start of school.

“€œMy vision is to go further in Texas and also get a stronger law in place in Texas, similar to our neighbors. My question concerns the 501(c)(3) for nonprofits and the Johnson Amendment. I have friends and preachers say to not form it under 501(c)(3) because government will take the place of God and restrict your freedom to operate the business of your company.

“€œBut, it appears to me the Johnson Amendment is the bad guy. I’ve heard President Trump say he will fix that. Sorry so long of a question, but I wanted you to hear the praise report and the question. Thank you, Linda from Brazoria, County.”€

Linda, thank you; thank you; thank you. Wow. I love seeing an action when people hear good news on WallBuilders Live! and then actually go do something with it and implement it.

So, guys, what an awesome, as she said, “€œpraise report.”€ What about her question on 501(c)(3) and the whole Johnson Amendment thing?

The Johnson Amendment & 501(c)(3)s


Well, there are two things here. We’re comparing apples and oranges, because if you’re not a church, which she is not. WallBuilders is not, Jewish Relief Services, whatever.

Those are not. They have to have a 501(c)(3) tax exemption recognition for donors to be able to get tax exempt recognition. Now, church doesn’t; donors to a church will get tax exempt recognition whether that church has a letter of recognition or not.

So, there is no reason for a church to have to do that. Now, your accountants will tell you, “€œOh, you need that.”€ Yeah, but your attorneys will tell you that you don’t have to have that.

So, that’s the difference. For what she’s doing, yep, she needs to have that recognition if she’s going to get tax deductible contributions. It’s significant to have it.

Now, the deal is, there’s really only a couple things that will limit you from doing anyway. And, she’s not gonna be doing that, probably, with what she’s got with their organization. By the way, just a shout out; kudos for doing something.

What a significant thing: 600 of those posters distributed locally. I mean, this is where America gets healthy. It”€™s a community at a time.

And, what Linda’s done is terrific stuff. But, all it keeps you from doing is, it says that as an organization like that, like the National Motto organization, you cannot endorse a candidate, which probably is not what she’s looking to do anyway. And, you can’t give money out of your contributions to fund candidates, and that’s probably not what she’s gonna do either.

Using Money On Issues

Now, she can be involved in issues. She can use money out of the organization to go to the Texas legislature and say, “€œHey, we need a much stronger bill. We need what they’ve got over in Arkansas and want that kind of a bill.”€

And, that’s great. You can use your money on issues all day long. That’s not a problem.

So, for Linda’s question, there is a difference between being a church and being a non-profit organization that is not a church. So, the recommendation that pastors are giving, you can’t really say the same advice because those are two different entities. By the way, Linda, if you feel the government starts restricting your freedom of speech, worship, or anything else because you have that letter of tax exemption, then give it up.

I mean, you don’t have to keep that, and you’ll still have people that will contribute to and want to help this thing move forward. So, the thing we tell churches is, “€œLook, if you feel like the government is restricting your speech, then walk away from that,”€ because again, a church does not need that.

But, for what Linda’s doing, man, I’d take it. And, if it ever becomes a problem, then walk away from the recognition.


We are out of time for today, folks. We would love to get more of your questions. We’ll get to as many of those as we can next Thursday.

But, be sure to send them in to [email protected]. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live! That’s our website as well:

There’s actually two; so, it’s a little confusing. is the radio site. is our main site.

Lives, Fortunes, & Sacred Honor

If you want go to, that is where you can find out about our events coming up and get all kinds of great tools for yourself, your family, your church. There’s Constitution classes, history classes, all kinds of cool things on there to help bring history to life, so that you can enjoy learning about our past in order to preserve freedom for our future.

We ask that all of our listeners take action and become a part of the solution, giving of their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor. Life is your time. Fortune is obviously investing or giving money to good candidates and good causes out there, including WallBuilders Live!

You can do that a with the “€œdonate”€ button right there. Then, sacred honor”€””€œlives, fortunes, sacred honor.”€ Sacred honor is just speaking truth and standing up, saying the truth when maybe you think the culture doesn’t want to hear it. Its”€™ being willing to have that voice.

We sure appreciate your listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuildersLive!

Questions of Power

Thomas Jefferson said, “€œIn questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”€