America The Faithful – With Timothy Goeglein: Are we losing our civilization without realizing it? What is the significance of Christianity in this nation? Has America rejected God…or, are they seeking truth? How is faith in the public square related to the American experience? Tune in for this eye-opening interview with Tim Goeglein and find out how you can help move the nation in the direction of true freedom.

Air Date: 01/18/2022

Guest: Timothy Goeglein

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


This is the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live, where we’re taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. If you look at any issue from those three perspectives, you are easily going to find the right answer. The Bible addresses everything in our lives, the Constitution lays out very clearly what the proper role of government is, and then, of course, we can learn so much from history.

Don’t repeat the bad mistakes we’ve made. Look for the good decisions, try to repeat those. So much of it is actually easy to figure out. We try to complicate these things and make it like it’s really hard, but it’s actually not. All the answers are right there if we will just look for that truth, and then stand for that truth and fight for that truth. So glad you’re joining us today.

My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s constitution coach. And I’m here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders, and also Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. Love working with these two guys, and love bringing this truth to you on a daily basis.

I hope you’ll go to our website today at, make your one-time or monthly contribution support so that we can get that truth out to more people. And while you’re there on the website, you can dive into the archives, you can look back and listen to programs you might have missed over the last few weeks and months, but also get some great materials for yourself and your family to dive in and get more of that education that will empower and inspire you to make a difference and help us restore America’s constitutional republic.

Alright, David, and Tim, later in the program, Tim Goeglein will be with us. We’re going to be talking about his article in The Epic times, the Epoch Times whichever it is about America the Faithful. And of course, well, it’s the intersection of culture and faith here at WallBuilders Live all the time, so we talk about faith and how it impacts the culture. The question is where is the culture on faith right now? Are we becoming more secular and to the point where we’re losing those foundations?

The Relevancy of The Faith


You know, that’s a great question. And polling that we’ve seen in the last year or two, there’s a lot of people who are moving away from faith. And the reason they give for those that no longer go to church, two out of three say because I find that faith lacks any relevancy. And that’s unfortunate because that’s not meaning the faith is irrelevant, it means our presentation of how faith applies is not giving them any relevancy.

And I think that’s one of the problems of the church is it’s focused on just preaching the gospel and preaching the gospel no longer means how you live your life and how faith intersects with society. It means saying the sinner’s prayer and being saved and that’s it. And so I think there really is a hunger and a lot of people to see a practical faith and they’re not finding it and church. And again, that’s not a reflection on the faith. That’s a reflection on the church. But there’s just so many things.

I remember looking at the start of the year, and I’m watching what’s happening with the back and forth between the administration and Congress and between the two sides and woke stuff and between what’s happening with different cultural issues. And one of the things I see is we no longer have any kind of real respect for truth. It’s more about my side winning than it is whatever’s true. 

And we kind of become Machiavellian and the end justifies the means. And if I can do things to help my agenda advance, I’ll create a fact-checking service that just says I’m right all the time and you’re wrong all the time and I don’t have to document that. 

And so now you can use my fact-checking services to say, hey, what Rick just said that’s not true, because I checked Politifact, or whatever it is and it says that he’s not true.

We’re not even asking the questions anymore. So I think we’re losing our civilization without even realizing it. We’re very advanced technologically, but we’re not very advanced morally or culturally. And I even look at that and think back to George Washington, and some of the early writings he did about the importance of manners, the importance of virtue, the civility with which we treat each other. 

Civil Traits from God’s Word

I mean, those actual civil traits came from the Bible, and you had a lot of people who were not Christians but they lived with those cultural, biblical positions that said, hey, truth really is important. And you don’t lie about someone else, you know, they may not be a Christian. But I think the thing about perjury is probably a good line to follow, that shouldn’t lie about other people and attack their character. That’s all biblical teaching.

And so I think one of the things that we really need is we need more people who take that faith, who can apply it in a practical way, and bring the culture back and a much more wholesome direction.


Well, guys, this is something too that’s been a theme of this program. Long before I joined you guys, I don’t know how many decades we’ve been going now at least one and a half, probably, but at least with WallBuilders Live, WallBuilders Live has been around for decades beyond that. With that being said, we’ve emphasized the religious moral foundation of this nation so much because it was so frequent in the Founders’ writings.

I mean, you can look at some very noted phrases like from John Adams, where he says that our Constitution was made only for a moral and a religious people. And it’s wholly inadequate the government of any other. And we’ve explained that part of the premise of this is that in America we believe in giving freedom to the individual. 

But if you give freedom to individuals, if they don’t have a moral compass with which to guide themselves, then that freedom is going to lead to greater immorality, which means that freedom is actually going to work. You’re going to have a bigger government come in and control those immoral behaviors, control the crime and the sin and the abuse.

So the only way freedom works is when you have an internal moral compass. And this is what the Founding Fathers said, right, that’s religion and morality. It’s religion that teaches us morality, and they were very specific talking about Christianity being that religion. Today, using the term religion can be a little offensive to people. 


And it’s taken on a different thought, where there’s a lot of Christians would say, well, it’s not about a religion, it’s a relationship. And I don’t disagree with that. But it’s a different use of the word than they were referring to.

When the Founding Fathers refer to religion, they’re largely referring to a foundation that we are basing truth or reality on. And this is why in Washington in his farewell address, he said, of all the things that would lead to our political prosperity, he says religion and morality are the indispensable supports of our political prosperity. So, the thing that we have to build are political prosperity. So our government, our politics on has to be built on religion and morality.

And this is something that I think as we are seeing the increasing secularization of our nation, and largely I think contributing and the rising generations and so many these public schools and things happening where the people are just kind of rejecting and abandoning faith in God, if you look at the long term downstream consequences, that’s a very negative thing to become a secular nation. Secular nations don’t go in the right direction. They don’t go in the direction of freedom and liberty and God-given rights because you don’t protect God-given rights if you don’t believe there’s a God.

Nonetheless, with that being said, looking at our nation, there’s a reason our nation was built on a foundation of religious and morality. And dad, as you mentioned with now the New Year and we’re getting into things, there is some reason to be encouraged. Even though we’re seeing the numbers of secular Americans increase, there’s also now a growing movement in the midst of the craziness and chaos around us that people are now beginning to question what they’re being told. 

They’re beginning to ask honest questions, in many occasions, of just some of the things they’ve heard from the government or the CDC or the World Health Organization. They’re asking questions. But ultimately, what they’re doing is they’re pursuing truth.

And anytime people start asking questions in pursuit of truth, as a Christian, that should always encourage us because we know ultimately, where honest questions about truth can lead us because we know who truth is. Well, Jesus said in John 14:6 he was the way, the truth, and the life. We know truth is found in God. And truth is revealed in God’s Word. It’s revealed when Jesus was here on Earth. It’s going to lead them back to that position of faith.

The “Secret Sauce”

So it’s good that people are asking questions. I’m actually encouraged by people asking questions. But certainly, it needs to get back to that foundation of the significance of Christianity in this nation.


Well, it is the secret sauce, right? I mean, that is the most important piece of all of our success. And Tim talks a little bit about that in his article, Tim Goeglein, Getting You Confuse, Tim Barton, and Tim Goeglein. Anyway, Tim Gatlin talks about that in his article in The Epic times. I mean, this is the formula that produced the greatest, most powerful, most free, most benevolent nation in history. And to give up that formula means to give up the results that come from that formula. 

And so I think as we see some of the negative results, a lot of states are imploding right now from the bad policies. The nation in many ways at the federal level is, is falling apart in terms of the debt and all the other problems that we’re dealing with because of moving away from that formula.

So hopefully, people are saying, hey, how do we get back to America the Faithful, Tim titled this article. Quick break, guys, when we come back, we’ve got Tim Goeglein with us. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. Although education has remained an emphasis in America for nearly 200 years, what has changed the most over that period of time is the philosophy of education.

For example, while religion finds no place of refuge in our schools today, such was not the case at the time of our Founding Fathers. In fact, when The Delaware Indian chiefs brought their use to be trained in American schools on June the 12th, 1779, George Washington told them, “You do well to wish to learn our art and our way of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.”

According to George Washington, what students learned above all in American education at the time of the Founding Fathers was the religion of Jesus Christ. For more information on God’s hand in American history, contact WallBuilders at 1808REBUILD


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us, Tim Goeglein, back with us from Focus on the Family, great article in The Epic times, Epoch Times, all my friends over at Epic say, we don’t know how to pronounce it either. We make it fun for everybody. Anyway, Tim, good to have you back with us, America the Faithful right at the end of the year, came out in The Epic Times, December 29th. But what a great way to start the year to recognize what makes America great and why we need faith in this country. Appreciate you coming back on, brother.

Tim Goeglein:

It’s a real pleasure and honor to be with you as this good new year steps off.


Well, as we get into 2022, and we start looking for ways to make a difference and save the country, that’s just not going to happen without the faith element. That’s really part of what you’re saying in the article is man, this virtue piece is not just critical. I mean, it’s without it, it won’t work.

Is Faith Really on the Decline?

Tim Goeglein:

I couldn’t agree more. It’s become fashionable for people, unfortunately, left and right, to say that America’s best days are past us, that faith is in a total decline, that we’re a totally secular country. And in fact, that’s just not the case. If you look at every other one of the developed countries in the world, you find that America’s church attendance, America’s identification with Christianity, and the Judeo-Christian tradition is actually quite high.

In fact, it’s demonstrably much higher than any other single country in the developed world. This remains America the faithful. Now, do people answer the same way that they would have answered when asked about faith in the 1940s or 50s? No, they don’t. It’s not Eisenhower’s America. But that is a long way from somehow saying that the country has categorically rejected God. It’s just not the case.


Well, and you talk about the hunger for God and even use polling as an example there. As things have gotten bad in America over the last couple years and things that we didn’t think we’d see in our lifetime have happened right before our eyes, has that caused more Americans to realize how much we need God in this country and in our individual lives?

Tim Goeglein:

I believe absolutely it has. One of the greatest of our founding fathers, in fact, the oldest one in Philadelphia in those years was Benjamin Franklin. Now, this is Benjamin Franklin, he said, there is no freedom without order and no order without virtue. In other words, if you want freedom and liberty, you better foster and nourish virtue. And the larger question is, in the American experience, where does virtue, where does moral excellence come from? 

Franklin knew. Our Founding Fathers knew. And people today know that in the American experience, the Judeo-Christian tradition, nourishes that moral excellence that government can never do, that Silicon Valley can never do, that Wall Street can never do. You know, we have to look back to the church, we have to look forward to the church and we have to realize as our Founding Fathers and mothers did, that the church contains the seedbed of virtue, moral excellence, and the future of liberty in America.

It Must Be Encouraged


And it has to be fostered. It has to be encouraged. The opposition to that, you pointed out in the article something I didn’t realize, I mean, you talk in there about 28% of Americans claim to be secularists, but only a third of those are openly hostile to religious faith.

Sometimes it feels like half the country’s hostile to religious faith, but it’s just that small percentage, whatever a third of 28 is, I’m not going to do that math in my head, but that small percentage of the country, that’s not a big chunk of the country but they seem to just have the platforms, I guess, or have the bullhorns.

Tim Goeglein:

Well, two things. This is a large, complex continental nation of over 350 million souls. I mean, this is a big country, and it’s getting bigger. And may I say, the reason I say that in light of your terrific question is that the progressives control so much of our cultural machinery. They control the media. 

They control the public schools. They control the universities. They control big government, Washington, and the swamp. Many of them control the bureaucracies of state government. And so it’s easy to be skewered in our thinking because these are very often the cultural apparat checks that suggest that somehow the entire American project is over, that faith is yesterday’s news.

And I think that when you look at these numbers, you realize that even in America, when people identify as the so-called nuns, no religion, when you dig into the data, as I did in writing this piece, what you realize concurrent to the stat that you mentioned a moment ago is that fully half of those people, it’s not that they hate God or they’re against religion, they’re figuring it out and they were seekers. And I think we have to keep that perspective in mind.

Faith and the Public Square


That’s actually good news. I mean, that’s an encouragement because those people that are looking and may call themselves secularists right now, but they become that person that wants God that hungry for God, especially when they see a lot of the negative out there that’s happening in the culture, it’s really an opportunity we should be looking for. 

If our message is strong and we’re saying, here’s the answers, here’s where you can see in history when faith is strong, and the community produces good results for everybody, if we’re communicating the positive message of the American formula that includes faith, we can win a lot of those people over.

Tim Goeglein:

We absolutely can. And as Christians, as biblical conservatives, we have a moral obligation to be good ambassadors for our ideas. You know, we are in the middle right now of a major battle of ideas. And we have been involved in this for decades. 

But, we have to be very clear that so called woke culture of the left, they’re seeking to destroy not only America, as we know and love it, and this goes to the heart of your question, they are also seeking to destroy the political, the moral, and the economic foundations upon which America rests.

So this question ongoing, and a debate really about faith and public life, faith and the public square, the number of Americans who will hear our ideas about the gospel, and begin to think differently about it, it’s directly related to the American experience and the ability to continue freedom for the next generation.


So important, Tim. Before I let you go, first of all, we’re going to give a link to folks to your article in The Epic times. But also, before I let you go, update a little bit on Focus on the Family, how people can follow you there and going into 2022, what are some of your major projects you’re working on?

Focus on the Family

Tim Goeglein:

May I tell you, Focus on the Family is thriving, and stronger than ever, by God’s grace. I’m eager for people to know about ‘Wait no More’. I’m eager for people to know about the major prolife commitment we have in light of the most important prolife case at the Supreme Court. 

You can read all about that on the Focus on the Family website in our various platforms. And of course, our marriage restoration. So with us, it’s marriage, family, parenting, human life, and of course, religious liberty. Those five major areas in public policy are very big at Focus on the Family. And as I say, by God’s grace, we go into 2022 doing everything we can as ambassadors have these great ideas to stand strong for the family.


Tim, we appreciate you, brother, appreciate Focus on the Family, appreciate all that you’re doing. Thanks for giving us sometime today on WallBuilders Live.

Tim Goeglein:

Every blessing to you and every blessing to everything that you’re doing.


Stay with us, folks, we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.


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We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Tim Goeglein for joining us today. We’ll have a link to his article at our website today at Back with David and Tim. Guys, let’s kind of talk about this going forward. You know, how do we become a more faithful as citizens, but how do we implement that faith that is necessary in terms of our formula for freedom?


I think it’s so important that we understand where it comes from because the secular guys are denying that religion had any impact on America. We’re a great nation because we’re a secular nation and that’s where our culture came from and that’s why we’re great. You know, we’ve talked over recent weeks as we’ve been so involved in Afghanistan in helping 13,000 folks get out of there, etc, what’s really been amazing to me is the culture.

Some Were Grateful, Others…

Afghanistan is not a biblical culture, although you have some Christian people in it, and we’re trying to help preserve their lives and make sure they get out safely. So you look at that, and I was even in a city recently where some of that the refugees we’ve been able to save them and get them to a safe place and meeting with them, and it’s very interesting, there are a lot of folks from Afghanistan that we also say that we’re not just persecuted Christians.

There were some military guys that were allies for us. There were others the Taliban was seeking for and searching trying to get out elected officials that they supported America, etc. And it’s very interesting because we spent a lot of money and people sent 48 million thereabouts to help this happen.

And we got a lot of people saved. And in meeting with them, it’s very interesting because the Christian people, they were so appreciative. Thank you so much for getting us out.

And so many of the secular people, like while I’m out, but what kind of job do you going to give me now? What are you going to do my home? And it was a very ungrateful attitude. And it was really kind of stark contrast to see, wow, the faith people, they’re really appreciative and they really recognize the blessings, and the others it’s like you owe this to me. This is what’s expected of me.

And even as I saw that, it goes back to where we are here. These guys enjoy the civility and the virtue that we have in culture but it didn’t come from them, it came from other teachings. And they’re trying to kind of like throw the baby in the bathwater out and still hope the baby is clean once the bathwater is gone. And it’s just not going to work that way.

So I think, Tim, as you said, there’s people really questioning now really looking. And this is an opportunity to really say, hey, guys, you like this culture, you need to understand is not what the secular process has been teaching you. Here’s a few like books like American Story, read this, and you’ll understand where our greatness came from.

The Rising Generation


Well, I would point out too, as we talk about the rising generation, this is something that if you look at the rising generation, polling told us New Year’s resolution that finding a connection to God, finding faith was one of the top New Year’s resolutions for rising generations. And this is something that for every parent, for every grandparent, for those listening, you want, man, how do we turn America around? 

The best thing we can do is help teach the rising generation this connection of faith in their life, and obviously, for them, for their soul, for eternity, not to downplay the true point of the gospel message, right, but the downstream effects are it does help the longevity of America.

And so if you want to make a difference in someone’s life, if you want to make a difference in America, this is where we would ask men, every single adult, every single grandparent, who in the next generation are you pouring into? Who are you investing in? And this has been very intentional. 

You need to find people that you can mentor, that you can level on, that you can pour into their life because this is part of how we transfer freedom. It is a faith message number one. But number two, that faith gives a foundation that allows freedom to work in America, that allows the constitution to continue. And so this is something that we can be a very active part in helping promote the freedom of this nation, but it’s built on the foundation of Christian principles. We need to find people that we can mentor, that we can raise up and train these basic biblical principles that help our nation remain free.


And I would encourage with that, as when you train, don’t just get people to know Jesus and young people need to know Jesus. They need to also know some of the culture that goes with that. And that sometimes some of us may have to learn that as well. But you look at all the manners in the Bible when a gray-haired person is in the room, you stand in respect and veneration to them. It says you treat women as though they’re your younger sister.


And it goes through all these relational kinds of things on how we treat one another and you don’t return evil for good and you don’t say I’m going to get even with you. And there’s all these bible verses on what to say when people attack you. And we’ve got to get that behavioral side out as well so that it’s not just a spiritual relationship that gets us to heaven. It’s a spiritual relationship that gets us to heaven and changes Earth while we’re here living on earth.


Well, folks, we are out of time for today. We are sure glad you are here with us on WallBuilders Live. As we’re signing off for the day, I want to encourage you to take some action. You know, we talk about these things on the program, we talk about sometimes very esoteric ideas or philosophical ideas of what makes a nation great, what makes a community great, but all of those ideas actually come down to practical steps that we can each take in our lives to make a difference in other people’s lives and in our country and in the future and restoring liberty and making sure that it’s preserved for future generations.

America the Faithful – With Timothy Goeglein

First action step I’m going to ask you to take today is to start reading through the Bible every year. It makes sure we get all the way through every year and there’s so much there that you’ll learn. I mean, every time for me, it’s like wow, I didn’t even remember that was there. Or just the way God does it, I mean, He just works it out so that the passage for the day is applicable to whatever’s happening, that day in my life or in the culture or things we were talking about. So please consider doing that.

The Founders’ Bible, I think, is the way to do it. I’m actually going through it this year kind of with other people by posting every day on social media, whatever the reading was for that day. It’s about six pages a day in the Founders’ Bible to get through the whole thing in one year. And it’s so neat.

It’s just incredible reading God’s word, at the same time, you’re reading these articles about how the Founders read that part of God’s word, and then applied it to the founding of the country or whatever was happening for them at that time. So it’s a great way to study. I encourage you to do that. Number one, read through the Bible this year.

And then number two host a biblical citizenship class. Actually, get people together talking about what Tim Goeglein was talking about today, and talking about those faith foundations and how we can restore those things, and how we can be force multipliers, how we can actually take our one vote and get other people to vote as well, get other people engaged in the process.

So when you host a biblical citizenship class, you will be raising the banner and I promise you, people will rally around that banner. They’re looking for someone like you to be the catalyst in your community for restoring biblical values and constitutional principles. You can sign up for free. We don’t charge anyone to become a coach and host a class. We give away the digital workbook to anyone that signs up for your class.

So it’s completely free for you to do that. Go to That’s, get your class started today. Thanks for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.