Anti-Semitism Before The Holocaust Is Happening Again Now: It’s 70  years after the Holocaust and that anti-Semitism that you saw rise before the Holocaust is happening again now. The same way that the Jewish stores were boycotted, now Israeli products are. The same way that Jews were afraid to wear a Yarmulke or publicly being a recognized as a Jew on the street, is the same thing that’s happening now. There’s a fear. And it’s our responsibility to learn from these horrors from the past and to make sure this doesn’t happen ever again. In this episode, you will learn aspects of World War II that maybe you had never heard before, you’ll have a new understanding of what America did, who Americans are, and what Christians and Jews did together in Poland and things that we can do to help now.

Air Date: 05/30/2017


Guests: Jonny Daniels, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Welcome

Rick:

You found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. Welcome to WallBuilders Live where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, always looking at it from Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.  Looking at it from those three perspectives you’re going to find the right position on the issues of our culture today.

We’re here with David Barton talking about these things, America’s premiere historian. Also, Tim Barton with us today president of WallBuilders, national speaker, and pastor. And my name’s Rick Green.  I’m a former Texas state rep, national speaker, and author.

Find out more about us and the organization at our websites.  We’ve got two of them, WallBuilders.com. And by the way, WallBuilders name comes out of that scripture in Nehemiah that says, “Arise and rebuild the walls that we may no longer be a reproach.” So we’re all about bringing back those foundational principles and rebuilding those foundations of our country.

So WallBuilders.com, wealth of information there. And then also WallBuildersLive.com for a list of our station’s past programs.  You can go back in the archives there and listen to programs over the last few weeks. And also a little bit more about us as host and about our guests that are going to be coming up.

Poland’s Christian Heritage

Today, in fact, Jonny Daniels later in the program with us. And David you spent some time with Jonny over in Poland. Incredible stories we’re going to hear from him later today. But you actually got to spend some time with him and we talked a little bit about it a couple of weeks ago but it sounded like just a remarkable trip.

David:

It was a remarkable trip. Jonny works closely with many of the political leaders of Poland. And by the way, a background, Jonny is very heavily involved in, if you will, European, particularly Israeli politics. Danny Danon was the head of the majority party and the Knesset in Israel. And Jonny was his chief of staff.  Danny is now Israel’s ambassador to the U.N. and what a great guy for Israel to have at the U.N.

So you have Jonny who is connected to folks all over Israel in politics but also across Europe as well. And his background was in Poland, that’s where a lot of his family was in World War II.

It’s interesting, I always really kind of thought of Poland as part of World War II, but until I went there I didn’t realize how intracule it was in World War II. It is a really key spot. So many of the European names I hear associated with World War II I just didn’t realize they were in Poland. I just think of World War II, and therefore Nazis, and therefore, Germany.  It must be Germany. No, it was actually Poland.

The foreign ministry is bringing groups over of leaders on our group we had a Hollywood producer, big time name, Hollywood guy. We had two ambassadors, had a presidential consultant, had all sorts of significant folks. And so we went over and saw what was there. A lot of it is reconnecting Christians with heritage there and reconnecting Christians with Jewish heritage. Because a lot of the Jewish history of Poland that is good is because Christians were doing things with Jews there.

A Deep Look Into World War II

So it was really a refreshing trip from that standpoint. I mean, there’s no question that Jonny is doing is fairly amazing. One of the things that he has really focused on is helping excavate a lot of the slaughter sites.

This just blew me away.  At Auschwitz, the Germans tried their best to cover up all the things they were doing. So when you look at Treblinka which is the second largest extermination camp that was in Poland, the Germans blew that thing up and bulldozed it. 

They planted farm crops there and they built farm houses to put up where they had exterminated 800,000 to a 1,000,000 jews. They put it all up there and hid it all. They knocked the ovens down and the gas chambers, it was all gone. And since World War II, we’re talking here essentially seventy something years. There’s never been any kind of archaeological digs done there until about two years ago.

And Jonny is the one who helped get them started at looking at their archaeological history. And so as we were going across Poland from one side to the other it turned out that there’s not more than a mile and a half you can go in any direction without coming on a mass burial site where that the Nazis killed Christians and Jews.

We were at one site where there was ten thousand killed at that site. There were 2,000 Christians and 8,000 Jews killed there. But imagine going across a full nation where you can’t go more than a mile and a half without coming on a mass grave from what was done by the Nazis.

So it was really an unbelievable trip and it was really connected.  I kind of know history anyway, but boy, I didn’t know that aspect of World War II history and it really opened for me a new understanding of what America did, who Americans are, and what Christians and Jews can do together and did together in Poland. And Poland has a lot of good stories, it’s got some bad stories of what Christians did not do. But it’s got some great stories of what Christians did.

Finding Hidden Mass Graves

Rick:

Tim and I, we kind of experienced it with you by following Facebook. You and Cheryl posted some great pictures and told a lot of the stories there.  Of course, we got to visit with you here in the studio about it.

But I didn’t realize, Tim, that it was going to be something that actually would end up with action steps. There are things that we can do now to help. And that’s why we’re going to have Jonny on to talk about that. But there are things we can do now to raise awareness of what happened and to help prevent it from happening in the future.

But Jonny is going to tell us about things that they’re doing literally to just continue the evidence.  David, you’re talking about the mass graves. They’re now finding some of those that people didn’t even know were there. And there are actual action steps that that people can be taking and Jonny is going to share some of that when we come back. 

So we’ll take a quick break, we’ll be right back. Jonny Daniels our special guest today on WallBuilders Live!

A Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Too often today history education excludes great black heroes from the American founding, such as Lemuel Haynes.

Haynes, though abandoned as a baby, pioneered churches across upper New England. He became the first black American to pastor a white congregation, to receive an honorary master’s degree, and to be ordained by a mainstream Christian denomination, The Congregationalist.

He was a soldier during the American Revolution and in his churches on George Washington’s birthday, he regularly preached sermons honoring George Washington. Even late in his life, he expressed his willingness to go back to battle if necessary to protect America, which he called, “a sacred ark.”

American history is filled with numerous examples of black heroes who are largely ignored by mainstream education today. For more information about Pastor Lemuel Haynes and other colonial Patriots go to WallBuilders.com.

DVD On Common Core

David:

Hi, friends! This is David Barton of WallBuilders. The current condition of education in America is abysmal. Not only is educational achievement plummeting, but every year, some 19 percent of high school seniors who graduate is completely illiterate. They can’t read at all but it was not always this way.

For generations, we taught students how to think. But after the progressives took over education in the early 20th century, things began to radically change. Education shifted from thinking to learning, which made the emphasis on the teachers rather than the students. And that elevated indoctrination above knowledge.

At that time, progressives also made massive changes in the way we tested students. They extended school from 8 to 12 years. They introduced graded education and they added compulsory education. Statistics prove that these changes have harmed education rather than helped it. And now the progressives are pushing common core.

In our new DVD On Common Core, we give you eight reasons why this current approach is so dangerous to our kids and our culture. We also show you an amazing history of education. So get this new DVD at WallBuilders.com.

From The Depths Organization

Rick:

Welcome back, thanks for staying with us we have the executive director of From The Depths Jonny Daniels with us. Thanks for coming on, Jonny.

Jonny:

My absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Rick:

Hey, David Barton and Cheryl both were just blown away by their trip over to Poland. In fact, we’ve already done one show about it. We just really wanted to inform our listeners even more about it and some of the things that that you guys are working on at From The Depths. So thanks for your time, and let’s just dive in. Tell us first of all about the organization itself.

Jonny:

So the organization was set up by myself about four years ago now. My family is a family of Holocaust survivors. My great grandfather was the only member of his family to survive. His entire family was murdered by the German Nazis. I grew up hearing these stories and having this understanding and this deep knowledge of what happened in the past.  I very much wanted to know how that pertained to me.

As my eldest daughter was born we named her also after her grandmother who is a survivor of Auschwitz and I realized that my kids won’t have the connection to Holocaust survivors that my generation had. And that my generation really had to step up and do something. And I looked around and a few people dealing with it especially from the Millennium Group and this is why I decided to jump in and deal with this very difficult issue of Holocaust memory, memorial, and education.

And really, we hit the ground hard in Eastern Europe and we’ve just been overwhelmed with the level of interest and attention from the public in Eastern Europe, and especially in Poland, and the media, and politicians. It’s been sort of an eye opening and remarkable experience, to be able to deal with such a difficult subject and have so many people Jews and non-Jews alike standing alongside us and working with us to uncover this difficult past and to tell these stories and to make sure that never again is now.

Making Sure This Really Doesn’t Ever Happen Again

Rick:

You guys say connect with the past to build the future and also to prevent that past from happening again, right?

Jonny:

Correct. It’s easy to say, “Never again.” It’s a common phrase, all of us say it, and say that terrible tragedies would never happen again. What the Jewish people went through, even today, 70 years after the Holocaust, we still haven’t been back to the figures that we were before the war. The Jewish population took a ginormous hit during this time. Being closer to 7 million Jews potentially murdered during the Holocaust.

In such a short period of time we come and say, “Never again.” And the truth is that sadly it’s happening again now. Thank God, not to us, I mean we have the state of Israel, we have a stronger army.

However, this is happening, this is happening to Christians in the Middle East, this is happening all over. And it’s our responsibility to learn from these horrors from the past and to make sure that this really doesn’t ever happen again.

Rick:

And so I think it’s important for us to grasp that. We don’t look at history and we don’t look at even these horrible stories from history just to learn about history. We’re learning for the purpose of making sure we don’t make the same mistakes. 

So as you guys say, “To build a better future.” And so I think we take on history in a totally different light when we do that. It’s not just as boring memorizing dates, names, places, type of thing. But this stuff matters not just to remembering, but it matters in terms of where we’re going.

And you nailed it right at the beginning just in terms of what the next generation knows about what happened and the duty, you mentioned it, our responsibility to stand in the gap and be the ones to transfer that knowledge to them again for a reason, for a purpose.

The Past Is Repeating Itself

Jonny:

Absolutely, one of the things that we see, today,  you’re looking at 70 years afterward and the anti-Semitism that you saw in this rise before the Holocaust is happening again now. The same way that the Jewish stores were boycotted, now Israeli products are. The same way that Jews were afraid to wear a Yarmulke or publicly being a recognized as a Jew on the street is the same thing that’s happening now. There’s a fear you know.

Just last night I spent time with a group of Holocaust survivors in Chicago, Illinois. And one of them was speaking to me and she was saying that she was one of the last living survivors, the most incredible lady.  She is one of the last survivors who was on Schindler’s list. 

She was with me last night, and she said, “Jonny, you know people were afraid to say that they were Jews. People would lie. As a Jew, we can take our Yarmulke off and blend in and like anybody else. But we shouldn’t.  We should be proud of who we are. 

There’s no reason why boys and men shouldn’t walk around with a Yarmulke on and be proud of the fact that they’re Jews. But the problem is that once again, we’re afraid. I find myself traveling all around the world and even in certain places in the United States I feel more comfortable just blending in. Not having to stand out. 

And this isn’t the way that it should be. We should be proud of who we are. And again this is history repeating itself.”

Rick:

Because those are indicators right? That’s an indication of what the world culture is headed towards once again if we don’t change it.

Jonny:

Oh, absolutely.

My Biggest Fear Is That This Is Happening Again

Talk about history repeating itself.  It doesn’t necessarily need to take the same form. I mean, what you’re seeing now, Jewish centers closing in places like Sweden because of the mass amount of anti-Semitism.

You’re seeing a mass exodus of Jews from countries like France and Belgium that they’re just escaping.  They’re just running away.  It’s not safe anymore. 

If you go to synagogue in Berlin it’s more difficult than passing TSA in an airport in the United States. You’re going through two sets of metal detectors just to go and pray on a Sabbath in the morning? This isn’t what should happen.

And the problem is that we are seeing this again. We’re seeing this rise of anti-Semitism, we’re seeing the mass murder of our Christian brothers and sisters.  And where are we? 

Where is this united voice shouting and screaming and fighting against this? The United Nations, one of the most ridiculous organizations that exists, is pursuing an anti-Israel agenda. With the most obscene calls of Zionism and racism and all of this nonsense. It could actually be stopping genocide. It could actually be working to allow Christians to live in the Middle East. But none of this is happening.

And this for me, is the biggest fear. When I look at my kids and I see that only 70 years ago my people were being murdered and persecuted. I understand that this will and this is happening already again now.

Giving Honor To Whom Honor Is Due

What we really try to do is try to focus and learn from this past and take these messages. And you know, they are very difficult messages. One of the most important projects we have is locating and commemorating mass graves.

You know, a remarkably difficult project. And this is to fight against Holocaust denial and to give these people a proper burial and make sure that these sites have remained holy, which they are.

But on the other hand, some of our most important work happens with the righteous amongst the nations. With these brave Christians who stood as a matter of faith alongside the Jewish brothers and sisters and especially in Poland stood there and looked the devil in the eye and I said, “It doesn’t matter what you do to us. We’re going to do what’s right and protect our neighbors.”

And the fact that we still have two hundreds of these righteous amongst the nations still alive,  is just of the highest importance to learn from these people and to understand how they came to do what they did.

Warsaw Zoo

We went with David and Cheryl and we met some of these righteous among the nations on the ground in Poland. The most simple people. We met a man who’s never met a Jew in his life and suddenly he’s saving 14 in a basement in his home. They have nothing to eat, this is wartime and the meager rations they have they’re sharing with others. We spent time at Warsaw Zoo.

Warsaw Zoo, during the war, in the zoo they saved three hundred Jews hiding them in animal enclosures and in their own home. Again, risking their lives and the lives of their children to do what was right. 

And these are the stories that we have to learn from. To see what it meant to be righteous and how we then take that message and that understanding for the future generations.

Rick:

Jonny, what is the best way for people who are listening right now in our audience across the country who say, “I want to hear those stories, I want to learn those stories.” Is FromTheDepths.org the website? Is that the best tool right now?

Jonny:

FromTheDepths.org and our Facebook page which is accessible through our website and Twitter and Instagram and all these different outlets. Find out from our newsletter.  That’s the best way to hear and understand a little bit about what we’re doing.

We’re speaking to you now from Chicago, Illinois.  We flew out here with the most remarkable projects over the last 24 hours.  In the 24 hours to come, we will be meeting and sitting with over 100 survivors of the Holocaust. Again, this is a generation that’s dwindling.  These are people that we have to learn from, we have to become witnesses. It’s our duty to become the witnesses of the witnesses and stand and remember.

Israel’s Holocaust Memorial Day

In Israel, we honored the Holocaust Memorial Day and it’s the most beautiful thing. At 10:00 in the morning a siren sounds and wherever you are you stop. There are videos of highways and motorways where people literally stop their car in the middle of the motorway. 

All three lanes completely blocked and everybody gets out of their car and stands for a minute in memory of what once was in the past. And the truth is is that what we’re finding on the ground, out in Eastern Europe is so incredibly important. It’s these stories.

Just recently we found- we went with David as well, we went and we visited a monastery in Warsaw where this incredible group of nuns saved 750 Jewish people. Jewish children are from the ghetto.

They’d be smuggled out and taken through this incredible underground network. And all of these things are still there waiting to be found and stories waiting to be uncovered and waiting to be told to the whole world. And this for us is one of the most important things that we’re doing.

Rick:

Now on FromTheDepths.org is where they can go to learn more, get on the list, learn the stories, donate there so that these things can, I mean obviously, it takes funds to be able to do some of these. In fact, David was telling me about some of the restoration of some of the hiding places that you guys are doing as well. So there’s so much that can be done and that folks from home right now where you’re listening that you can be a part of it.

So good check out the website right now, FromTheDepths.org. You can find out more there and we’ll have an easy link for you to do it on WallBuilderslive.com.  

Jonny, I wish I wasn’t out of time.  We’ve got to get you back on. Thank you for what you’re doing and we so look forward to coming alongside you.

Jonny:

Thank you, God bless you all.

Rick:

Stay with us folks.  We’ll be right back with David Barton.

Pastors Only Briefing Trip

Tim:

Hi, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders and I want to encourage all the pastors out there with a unique opportunity that we’re presenting it WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation. Not just seeing the sights but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent.

We get to go to the Capitol at night.  And we get to see the spiritual heritage of our Founding Fathers, of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties and freedom, and what’s going on in Washington, D.C.

If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website at www.WallBuilders.com. And there’s a link that’s for scheduling.  If you click on that link there’s a section for pastor’s briefing. There’s more information about the dates, when it’s going, and how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of.

Preserving These Pieces Of History

Rick:

Welcome back, thanks for staying with us on WallBuilders Live! Thanks to Jonny Daniels for joining us today. David, you got to see it firsthand, Tim and I are hearing about it now. But folks that are listening at home can actually take some action on this as well.

David:

Yeah, this is something where that we’re really working to be able to take those two hiding places that we know are there and get them preserved before they go away. One of the hiding places we visited there was a great guy.  

We met him.  I really loved the guy.  He was 87 but he saved 14 Jews and that hiding place has fallen in in the last year. It was an underground shelter where for nearly three years these 14 Jewish folks lived down there and he kept them safe from the Nazis.

But it’s fallen in and has to be restored. It’s an easy restore, it’s not that expensive, it would be an easy thing to do. But it needs to be a learning center. You have kids from all over Europe coming to see these places and they need to see what happen when Christians and Jews work together. 

What happens when you stand up and look evil in the face. And this guy that saved the 14 Jews, right behind him one of his neighbors was gunned down for trying to save Jews.

So this was the kind of thing where they looked evil in the face and said, “We’re still going to do the right thing.” And that’s a great lesson for any generation at any point in time. But we want to get these guys on film, get their stories taped, have interactive stuff there for kids and others who come through. You’ve got the extermination camps.  Let’s have some good stories in there as well, some uplifting stories.

Tim:

Speaking of uplifting stories, one of the cool places that he even mentions, I know you got to visit, I saw on Facebook is you were putting up pictures. The Zoo is one of the fun places that you guys got to go. There’s actually a film out called The Zookeeper’s Wife that tells the story about the, what was it, 300 individuals-

David:

Yeah, 300 individuals got saved. We went through that house, the zookeeper’s House and the zoo. And you know some of them they put in cages with the animals because the Nazis didn’t think anything would be in there except the animals.

Others they had a basement under their house where they kept these guys. Even the housekeeper who worked at the house did not know that there were Jews living in the basement underneath.

There were tunnels in and out of the basement and so the zookeeper and his wife kept these Jews safe and ran three hundred through there over the course of the war. It’s an amazing story. And of course, that movie is out now. But it’s just cool stuff.

There are cool stories that need to be told. I like what Johnny said, “This is a generation that’s dwindling. This is a generation that we have to learn from, and that’s true.” We’ve can get their stories. 200 of these folks are still alive and we met with I guess nine or ten of them total while we were there.

One of them was like ninety-eight years old. And man, he acted and talked like a 50-year-old guy just as sharp as he could be. And so their stories were really, really, really cool. They needed to be preserved and we wanted to be able to do that and that’s one of the things you can do helping Jonny with From the Depths.

But also the fact that Poland is bringing American leaders over there. It’s a great thing. It’s a great source of education.  It’s a great aspect of World War II that most kids don’t get in textbooks, and it’s something that every one of us needs to know about.

Rick:

You know, Jonny was telling me off air that there are so many of those stories too. He is like, “Man, we could we could do a story on one of the righteous and the folks that they save once a week and it will probably go from now on.”

You got to see them firsthand and hear some of them.  Go to the website today folks and you can read about some of them. But like you said, these stories need to be told. There’s a generation right now that this is so far removed from them and they have no idea most of these atrocities happened.

David:

Well, Jonny was talking about the rise in anti-Semitism and that is there. And there are places now in the United States where he does not feel safe to wear his Yarmulke. And in France, he will not wear Yarmulke there.

So why should you be in any place, particularly in America, and be fearful to express your faith? That’s crazy. You can’t wear Yarmulke in certain places in America because the anti-Semitism that’s on the rise here and particularly in France.

And so the statement he made is, “History is repeating itself.” I mean, this is the kind of stuff preceding World War II, not saying that we’re going to have another world war. But the issue of history repeating itself it’s a lot easier to repeat itself when you don’t teach history at all. 

Which is where we are today or when you teach it wrong which is also where we are today. I mean when you look at the AP history standards that came out September 2014 there’s only a handful of things they even say about World War II and they’re all negative about America. My gosh, we didn’t do anything good in World War II? Not if you look at what they wanted to be taught in those standards.

And so I mean we don’t have to go down this path. We don’t have to have history repeat itself. And what Jonny is doing is such a good project and it’s one that we all need to benefit from.

Rick:

Thanks for listening today folks! Thanks to Jonny Daniels for joining us today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.