The Freest Arabs And Muslims In The World Live In Israel: We”€™ve had a lot of good news on our programs recently! One of the reasons for that is because we now have an administration that doesn’t just go along with what’s popular. They are going to do what”€™s right even if it”€™s controversial. Well, one of the ways they have proven that is by standing up for Israel.  Join us today for some awesome discussion regarding the positive changes that the Trump administration has made regarding Israel. Also, learn about the way things currently stand in the Middle East. David Brog, from Christians United for Israel, is our special guest today helping us cover these important issues. Learn how God”€™s ways truly do work best every time.  Tune in now to learn more!

Air Date: 01/15/2018

Guest: David Brog

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.   However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture


You”€™ve found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. Thanks for joining us today on WallBuilders Live where we talk about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. All of it from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.

Today we’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. And Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor, and president of WallBuilders. My name’s Rick Green. I’m a former Texas state legislator.

You can find out more about us at and also WallBuilders Live is our radio website and then WallBuilders is our main website. A lot of great information there as well.

Israel Is Almost Always a Hot Topic


Talk about hot topics, David, Tim, Israel is almost always a hot topic and especially with President Trump. But moving our embassy to Jerusalem makes it an even hotter topic right now.


Well, I would say not just Israel, but even the Middle East. If you look at where the Middle East is today compared to where it was one year ago or two years ago, oh my gosh, it is such a different place. What’s happening with Iran right now is total reversal. You’re having protests and demonstrations in Iran and they may not survive that. That wasn’t going on a year or two ago.

As a matter of fact, we were giving them 150 billion dollars. And then you look across the Middle East and today ISIS is virtually exterminated out of the Middle East. Now that hasn’t solved all the problems of instability because you”€™ve still got a bunch of jerks over there and you”€™ve got what’s going in Syria etc. But ISIS, per se, is now having to find new homes in the Philippines, and new homes in Indonesia, and new homes in Africa. Just look at the last year what’s happened over the Middle East, it is becoming a much more stable place now.

I’ve mentioned before that one of the groups that I helped run is called The Nazarene Fund. And we’re no longer having to take people out of the Middle East which we did. We took thousands and thousands out of the Middle East because they were in imminent danger. Well, now, we’re just helping them rebuild all the churches that ISIS blew up and destroyed and helping them rebuild their lives. But they’re not having to leave the country anymore.

That is such a substantial difference and it has all happened since Trump has been president. Whether he’s the cause of all of it or not, he certainly has drawn lines in the sand for Iran. He certainly is helping encourage and fuel the resistance that”€™s going within Iran with all of his tweets, and what he’s doing with Twitter, which gets out there all over the world. What we’re seeing in the way of really crushing ISIS, the new military strategy that Madis brought in, that has certainly resulted in a big change. And then he steps up and says to the world, “€œHey, here’s what we’re doing with Israel and Jerusalem.”€

All of that is a whole tone change, unlike anything we’ve had, really in 16 to 20 years. Nothing like that.


Well, it’s a big change and it’s an important change. That’s kind of what we’re going to get into today. David Brock will be with us a little later on from Christians United for Israel. But why does it matter? Why should Americans pay attention to the Middle East?

Why should they pay attention to Israel?  And why does it matter that Trump is naming Jerusalem where we’re going to go with the embassy and recognizing it as the Capitol? These are important topics that have an impact not just on the Middle East, but our country as well. So, David Brog, Christians United for Israel, will be with us to talk about that when we come back. Stay with us, you’re listening to all voters like.

Moment From American History

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. What is the purpose of government? Founding Father Oliver Ellsworth believed he knew. Oliver Ellsworth was a delegate at the convention which formed the Constitution and later he became the chief justice of the US Supreme Court.

Concerning the purpose of government, Oliver Ellsworth declared, “€œThe primary objects of government are the peace, order, and prosperity of society.”€ Yet, how are these goals to be achieved?

Ellsworth explained, “€œTo the promotion of these objects, good morals are essential. Institutions for the promotion of good morals are therefore objects of legislative provision and support. And among these religious institutions are eminently useful and important.”€

Founding Father Oliver Ellsworth believed government could never reach its goals apart from the help of religious institutions. For more information on God’s hand in American history contact WallBuilders at 1-800-8-REBUILD.


Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Our friend, David Brog, is back with us from Christians United for Israel. David, always good to have you, sir.

David Brog:

Hey, Rick. Thanks for having me. Great to be with you.


You know, here we are early in 2018, a new year, a lot of great stuff happening. A lot of good stuff happening there towards the end of 2017 as well. We just wanted to get your thoughts on President Trump naming Jerusalem, and talking about doing something that, man, we’ve asked for and wanted for a long time. Seems to have been good policies towards Israel over the last year. So, just wanted to see what you thought of all that and what you thought 2018 might be bringing us.

One Major Complaint

David Brog:

Well, those of us who are dissatisfied with the Obama policy in the Middle East had one major complaint, right? He seemed to get things exactly backward and seemed to view Iran as some sort of friend and strategic partner.  He seemed to view Israel as the source of the problems of the Middle East. And so what we really were hoping for from President Trump is that he might see those two things a little more clearly.

Look, say what you will about the president of the United States, he has gotten those fundamentals right. In word, in deed, he has recognized that Israel is our ally in the region. Israel represents our values in the region. And that Iran, an aggressive and expansionist Iran, is the source of most of the threats and problems facing us in the Middle East.


It’s almost the exact opposite–

David Brog:

It is.


–of the party of the previous president, I mean.

David Brog:

That’s exactly right. And the last guy got it wrong. And you know what, I went to law school with Obama. He was in my graduating class from law school. I can tell you, Obama was a smart guy.

He was a well-educated guy. But like so many well-educated professors around the country, he lacked the basic moral compass and common sense. And he missed these basic things. President Trump, say what you will, he doesn’t always talk pretty, but I’ll tell you what, he has a moral compass and the clarity to recognize who our friend in the region is and who our foe in the region is. And that’s a fantastic start.


David, for listeners who haven’t been with us for a while, or may not be familiar with Christians United for Israel, what does it really matter? In other words, how can you explain briefly the difference in the outcome based on Obama’s approach to these things and President Trump”€™s? When you get this wrong, what happens? When you get it right, what happens? All in just 30 seconds, brother.

No, I”€™m just kidding. You”€™ve got a little more time.

The Bottom Line in the Middle East

David Brog:

*laughter* Plenty of time. Look, bottom line, the Middle East is the school playground on steroids. It’s a place of no mercy. It’s a place where the bullies were allowed to trample on the innocent, and the weak, and the minorities will do so. And where only those who have the strength to stand up for themselves and fight back, they’re able to survive.

The Christians in the Middle East don’t have enough power. And because of that, the bullies, the Islamic extremists, are murdering them, and bombing them, and crucifying them, and persecuting them. The Jews in the Middle East, fortunately, said, “€œHey, this is a rough neighborhood. We need to defend ourselves.”€ When we support them in that, this Jewish state, this Jewish democracy, this ally of the United States, is able to thrive, and survive, and protect its Christians, and protect its religious minorities.

But when we put daylight between us and Israel, when we embolden Iran, it threatens all of that. So,  we’re talking fundamental justice, fundamental survival in the Middle East. And most importantly, our interests. Those allies who want to further our interests either being strengthened or weakened, thank God, today the tide is turning. Our allies are looking stronger and those who threaten us are looking a little weaker.


Is it fair to say even to add to that list even just the idea of political freedom rests on whether we get this right or wrong? Because as you know, Israel is– they are our ally and in terms of how even a society ought to work and how government ought to work. Versus these Islamic countries where you don’t have that kind of freedom.

The Christian Community in Israel is Growing and Thriving Like Never Before

David Brog:

Well, basic example, look what happens to a Christian who tries to share his faith in Iran. He ends up in jail, he ends up in a dark room, in a dank prison. Look what happens in Israel, the Christian community is growing and thriving like never before. You know it’s the only Christian community in the Middle East that isn’t shrinking but growing and thriving. But forget Christians, the freest Muslims in the Middle East, the freest Arabs in the Middle East, the only ones who really can criticize their government without fearing for their freedom or their lives, are the Arab citizens of the Jewish state.

So, we are talking about our basic values. Basic respect for human life, human dignity, human freedom, and whether these values will survive and thrive or not. And the great thing about Israel is, that Israel has never asked or sought American soldiers to put themselves in danger to defend her freedoms. All Israel has ever seen is the ability to defend itself by itself. That, to me, is exactly the right way we should be doing foreign policy.

We look at the millions we invested to build a democracy in Iraq, the millions, billions, we’ve invested to build democracy in Afghanistan, and those projects haven’t gone very well. By comparison, when we have an ally like Israel that wants to do it for themselves, that’s how these things get done. And we need to support them in doing that.

The Freest Muslims and Arabs in the World Live in Israel


You mentioned the freest Muslims and Arabs in the world live in Israel. Is that why– I saw recently where, in fact, we had some guests on to talk about it. You know, now you’ve got these, even Arabs soldiers that are coming over and speaking on campuses in America saying, “€œHey, we’re–they’re defending Israel because of the freedom that we have.”€ That was shocking to me when I saw that because that’s not covered in the news. But they’re experiencing freedom because of the way Israel works.

David Brog:

Yeah exactly right. You’re seeing this phenomenon now where Arab Christians in Israel and Arab Muslims in Israel are stepping forward and saying, “€œThis country protects me. This country gives me freedom even though I’m a minority. It gives me security even though I’m a minority.”€ Christians in Israel, look at what would be happening to them if they were living in Syria, or Lebanon, or Egypt, or Iraq, and they greatly appreciate the freedom and security that the Israeli government provides.

And so they’re stepping forward and saying, “€œI want to serve and defend this country that’s defending me.”€ And Christian Arabs and Muslim Arabs are stepping forward and volunteering for the army. They don’t have to serve, but they volunteer. And so we’re seeing more of that. Some of them are going and speaking on campuses because they just tell everyone who’s criticizing Israel on campus.

It’s trendy now on campus to criticize Israel and America, of course. And these Arab Israelis who serve in the Israeli army are showing up and saying, “€œYou idiots have no idea what you’re talking about.”€ And it’s very compelling when it comes from someone who’s lived their life on the ground and knows the realities on the ground in a way no college activists will ever understand.


Yeah, that’s powerful, incredibly powerful. Before I let you go, what can folks do to help Christians United for Israel? How can they stay informed? Can they get on your website and sign up for an e-mail? Can they obviously donate?  

What can they do? A lot of times, we sit over here in all this freedom and we get a little bit spoiled. You hear about Christians being persecuted around the world. You hear about how tough it is for Israel. But you go, “€œI can’t– what can I do about that?”€

So, how can they get plugged in in some way?

What Can We Do?

David Brog:

I appreciate it, Rick. Our website is, that’s And that”€™s CUFI for At a minimum, go to our website and give us your email address. If you do that, we’ll update you on what’s going on in the Middle East and we’ll offer you opportunities to make a difference. We try– we know everyone’s busy, we try to make it easy. But we’ll send you an e-mail, an action alert saying, “€œClick here and send an e-mail to the White House, or to your congressmen, or to your senators. Asking them to take action to defend Israel, to defend Christians in the Middle East, to be tougher on our enemies in the Middle East like Iran.”€ It’s a way to weigh in and be active with very little investment of time. And then if you like what you see, and you want to get more involved, there are opportunities there to bring CUFI speakers to your church, to your community. And for you to become a CUFI leader and stand up for Israel in your church and your community. So, can provide people with a lot of very easy ways to make a difference.


Love it. We’ll have a link today as well at our website to make it easy for you. Get over there, folks. David Brog, always good to have you. And looking forward to a great 2018 and getting you back soon.

My great pleasure. Thanks for having me, Rick.


Stay with us, folks. Be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Share a veteran’s story

We Want To Hear Your Vet Story


Hey friends! If you have been listening to WallBuilders Live for very long at all, you know how much we respect our veterans and how appreciative we are of the sacrifice they make to make our freedoms possible. One of the ways that we love to honor those veterans is to tell their stories here on WallBuilders Live.  Once in awhile, we get an opportunity to interview veterans that have served on those front lines that have made incredible sacrifices have amazing stories that we want to share with the American people.

One of the very special things we get to do is interview World War II veterans. You’ve heard those interviews here on WallBuilders Live, from folks that were in the Band of Brothers, to folks like Edgar Harrell that survived the Indianapolis to so many other great stories you heard on WallBuilders Live.

You have friends and family that also served.  If you have World War II veterans in your family that you would like to have their story shared here on WallBuilders Live, please e-mail us at [email protected]  Give us a brief summary of the story and we’ll set up an interview. Thanks so much for sharing here on WallBuilders Live!


We”€™re back on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Special thanks to David Brog, Christians United for Israel. We’ll have links to the website today at our website, We are now back with David and Tim Barton.

And of course, guys, we’ve covered the issue of Israel. We talk about that a lot because it’s very important. I thought David’s description of why we should pay attention was succinct and very, very, good. I know we’ve got a lot of new listeners out there and sometimes people in America don’t think outside our borders and outside what’s happening here. This subject has– we’ve got to know more about it and certainly, as Christians, we have a responsibility to do what we can to help Israel.


Well, even with the organization he helps run, Christians United for Israel, that’s the largest grassroots Christian organization in America. They’ve got over 4 million active members in that organization. There are over 100 campuses, secular campuses, where they have clubs on campus of kids that are– And by the way, here’s another great sign of what’s going on – David Brog is an Orthodox Jew running one of the largest Christian organizations in the world for Jews. And it started by an evangelical pastor, John Hagee. In addition to that, David is also really key in a lot of policy in the Middle East.

One of the guys he works for, runs businesses for this guy, is one of the most noted philanthropist in the world concerned about Israel and what happens there. So, David”€™s connections are massive and they’re huge. And his perspective, and what he’s able to tell us, I mean, that’s just not reading it out of the New York Times, this is a guy who’s actually actively into it.

President Trump”€™s “€œMoral Clarity”€


Well, from a guy that has perspective, it’s also interesting, as he identified, that one of the things that are so different with even looking at this embassy move, is that the previous presidential administration, President Obama, really saw Israel as the problem in the Middle East. Whereas he says that Trump sees things more clearly.


Yeah, now, wait a minute, it was, I wrote it down because he didn’t see it more clearly. He said, “€œTrump has a moral clarity.”€ Now, who would have ever thought moral clarity would be the phrase that we used with Trump? But, I’m sorry, Tim, go back to where you were.


Well, but to that end, where Trump understands that– the point he’s making he certainly did identify that President Trump has moral clarity on this issue. But he sees things from the perspective of knowing that Israel is not the problem over there. Which is why when he makes his move from the embassy moving to Jerusalem, he’s able to do it with really kind of strength and fortitude and character. Saying, “€œNo, no, no, we’re not worried about this. It’s fine.”€

Israel is an ally we need to have, but just the significant change of perspective. And again, coming from an Orthodox Jew very involved the Middle East, very involved in Israel, and he sees this firsthand. And recognizes how now the way things are going, even from Washington D.C., is so much better for Israel.


Well, I love that more clarity statement. I love even how he said he has a good instinct about who the good guys are and who the bad guys are in the Middle East. And that kind of instinct, and that kind of moral clarity about what’s right and wrong. We can say what we want before the election, but since he’s been in, he knows that Cuba’s a bad guy and so has rescinded, has set aside, what Obama did with Cuba. He knows that North Korea is a bad guy and has set aside the placating that we were doing there.

He knows that what is happening with ISIS was bad. And so try, rather than to keep them moving around, he just annihilated them. Same with Iran, “€œI’m setting aside that deal.”€ The same with the Paris Accords, “€œWe’re not doing that.”€ So, his moral clarity on who the good guys are and who the bad guys are really, really, has been something that”€™s very clear.

And I don’t think anybody expected that coming into the administration. But yet, a year later, look how different the Middle East is as a result of that.


Yeah, what a difference when you have leadership that has moral clarity and has some kind of moral compass to drive them and not just do whatever’s popular in the world. Or worse yet, just popular at the U.N.

Quick break, we’ll be right back. We’re talking about Israel. David Brog, appreciate him coming on earlier. Be sure and check out the website for Christians United for Israel, we have a link today at We’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.

Biographical Sketches

Hi friends! This is Tim Barton of WallBuilders.This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. I know, oftentimes as parents, we”€™re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

If you remember back in the Bible, the Book of Hebrews it has the Faith Hall of Fame, where they outlined the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity and our faith as well.

I wanted to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called, “€œThe Courageous Leaders Collection“€ and this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers.

There’s a second collection called, “€œHeroes of History“€ in this collection you read about people like Benjamin Franklin, Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, the list goes on and on.

This is a great collection for your young person to have and read. And it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at


Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us on WallBuilders Live. Again, thanks to David Brog for joining us earlier. We’ll have links to his website at our website today. So, David, Tim, we’re talking about the difference in having a moral clarity on this issue of the Middle East.

It really applies across the board though. I think the reason is Good News Friday programs have been so full over the last few months is because we’ve got an administration that doesn’t just put the finger to the wind and say what’s popular, what feels good. They’re surrounded– not just Trump, but Mike Pence and the people that they’ve surrounded themselves with, are saying, “€œWe’re going to do what’s right and we know there’s going to be political fallout. We know the media is going to come after us, but we’re kind of used to it. They’re all against us, but we’re still going to do what’s right.”€

It Comes Down to the Perspective of How You Determine What is Right


Well, this is where that, even as David Brog pointed out, that Trump has moral clarity on this issue. You know, Rick, as you were saying that we have people that are now going to do what’s right. Well, I think we all could agree that people in the Obama administration were trying to do what they viewed as right. It’s just we have a very different perspective of how we determine what is right. We have a different moral compass we are using to determine what is right.

And whereas for us we’re trying to look from the Biblical perspective, or in many cases the historic, the Constitutional perspective. But certainly, with Israel, you can look very pragmatically, but also certainly Biblically plays into this. And that’s where we’re getting our perspective of what we’re considering to be right. I think every leader ultimately is trying to do what they view as right. It’s just that we don’t always agree on what is right.

And many times because we don’t have the same standard. But when we have an administration right now that’s using the Bible as the standard, that’s using God’s covenant with Israel, and “€œI’ll bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.”€ When you have leaders that have a Biblical compass as their governor for right and wrong, and morality, at least in the issue of Israel, right, because we could argue maybe there are other things they don’t do so good and they”€™re not always Biblical. Sure, we can we can have that discussion. But for Israel, this is where it’s so different is we’re saying they’re doing what is right, right?

They”€™re upholding what is good and what is true. But based on that Biblical perspective which has been lacking from the White House for a lot of years.

When You Do Things God”€™s Way, You Get Good Results


It’s interesting, too, that that Biblical perspective, when you do things God’s way, you get good results.  If you look at Israel right now and the division within Israel, the Palestinians trying to tear up Israel and trying to convince the world that Israel is bad.  We’ve had, we had them before, Reservists On Duty.

Remember the guys that are in the Israeli military and they’re going, and you mentioned to David Brog, they’re going across the campuses saying, “€œHey, we’re in the military. We are Muslims in the Israeli military. And we”€™re Christians in the Israeli military. And we”€™re all these different groups. We”€™re Arabs in the military.”€

And it’s interesting even beyond that, that of the Arabs who live in Israel right now, they live in Israel. When you ask the Arabs in Israel, “€œDo you want to be governed by the Israelis or by the Palestinians?”€ Overwhelmingly, the Arabs who live in Israel say, “€œWe want the Israelis governing us. We don’t want the Palestinians governing us.”€ So, it’s interesting that those who are even much closer to the situation than we are, and we have a Biblical perspective on it, and a historical perspective.

But even beyond that, those who are on the ground see really clear who’s right and wrong. And they’re coming down on the same side we are.


Well, and it is one of the things David Brog pointed out, that the freest Arabs, the Muslims in the world, live in Israel. And so–


And, by the way, that’s the only Christian community in the entire Middle East that is not shrinking but is thriving. And I had not heard it expressed that way before. But you’re right, Tim, those who lived there, they see it.

Telling College Kids Israel is Not the Great Evil They”€™re Told Of

Well, and the thing that David pointed out, and certainly when you have people that are theologically, diametrically, opposed and they still say, “€œWe’ve really like living with you. We like this better.”€ Just from a pragmatic point of view, it really is kind of a game changer of what works best. But also, when they’re able to communicate that, and as we mentioned, these guys go on college campuses. And they’re trying to help college students understand Israel is not the great evil that you are told of.

They’re the place where you can enjoy the most freedom, you can enjoy the most stability. But it goes back to even your point when you do things God’s way, it works better. And Israel is a nation that tries to follow a lot of those Biblical principles. Which granted, how much of the Bible happened in Israel, right? That”€™s kind of a big part of the Bible, big foundation is Israel.

But because they follow so many of those principles, things have worked very well for Israel on a lot of levels. And Israel, just like any other nation, like America, anybody else, if you follow Biblical principles, Dad, as you were saying, those things just tend to work. God’s ways work.  As Bob McEwen would say, “€œThey only work every single time.”€ God’s ways work.

So Israel is a nation that has followed those. And you can see it in the fruit of how Israel operates. The freedom that you have in Israel no matter what religion, no matter what nation ethnicity, Israel is a pretty safe and stable place.

These Policies Work Across the Board


And when you say these policies work, you’re talking across the board. It’s not just, sometimes people think when we say “€œBiblical principles”€ or “€œBiblical policies”€, they think we’re only referring to maybe life or marriage. But we’re actually talking economics, we’re talking about how you choose your leaders, we’re talking about every area of how a society is formed and how government works.


Yeah, it is every area of society. Because you’ve got to remember that God Himself built an entire nation. And in the Old Testament, He gave 613 laws on how to govern that nation. And those laws cover every subject you can think of. Not technology, but they cover communication, and transportation, and foreign affairs, and education, and military, and everything else.

So, God’s word is full of applications practically in life. And not just to the moral issues that are in the news and in the heads of a few people as you said, Rick. It’s a whole lot more than that.

Arabs and God’s Principles


It’s not only right, it works best. And like you said, Tim, quoting our good friend McEwen, “€œIt only works– they only work every time that they’re tried.”€ So, let’s try them some more. Not only here in Israel and around the world, but let”€™s export them.

Thanks for listening today, folks. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.