The Difference Between Authority And Power – With Judge Vance Day: 05/27/2020
Air Date: 05/27/2020
Guest: Judge Vance Day
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Faith and the Culture
Welcome to WallBuilders Live, the intersection of faith and the culture where we take on the hottest topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. Thanks for joining the conversation with us today. We’re with David Barton, America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders, Tim Barton is a national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach.
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Alright, David, Tim, we got a great interview coming up later today, Judge Vance Day is going to be with us. And you know, as often as we’ve talked about the court being, you know, out of control and a big part of the problem for where we are as a country, there are good Judges out there. There’s good people that serve in the judicial branch and this is one of the good guys from Oregon,
A Significant Movement
Yeah, Judge Vance Day really is a good guy from Oregon. He is not only a constitutional Judge, which means he’s conservative and I hate using that term because you shouldn’t have to be conservative, you should be constitutional. So, he’s a constitutional Judge, which in today’s climate makes him conservative. But he’s also a very strong Bible believing Christian. Very much his life is directed and guided, not just Christian-wise, but biblical-wise. You know, we’ve talked before about the difference between being a Christian and being a biblical Christian. He’s a biblical Christian. He reads the book he puts into practice.
He has now taken over Promise Keepers and Promise Keepers have such a significant movement for so many years. Coach McCartney from up in Colorado, the famous football coach up there had been a head of it for a number of years.
And I actually remember the huge rally they did in Washington DC, where the men came from across the nation and they got there to commit themselves to being good husbands and being good men and being good fathers, etc, following biblical precepts and principles. And that rally was massive. I think they ended up announcing it at about 1.2-1.5 million. Park Service guys I talked to said it was well over 3 million. But so many of these large rallies that I’ve been part of and have seen so often, to just keep it from being exaggerations, they kind of cut the numbers in half. Here a couple years ago, we were part of a rally at DC that the Park Police said it’s well over 1.2 million and the sponsors announced it at 500,000. So, that’s what Promise Keepers did. They said that’s about 1.2 million guys.
And so, I walked around that. It was there around the Washington Memorial and up and down the National Mall. I walked around and it was 6.2 miles for me to walk the perimeter of all the men who had gathered that day. It was quite an amazing event, amazing meeting. So, Promise Keepers does terrific work and what they’re doing and trying to get men back to being biblical fathers, being biblical husband, biblical men, it’s really good stuff. But it’s great to have Judge Day at the head of that.
Alright, Judge Vance Day, stay with us when we return. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.
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We’re back here WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Judge Vance Day with us from Oregon. Judge, how are you, sir? Thanks for your time today.
Welcome Judge Vance Day
Oh, I’m doing great. I really appreciate being with you.
Well, so many things we want to talk to you about: Promise Keepers, your experience as a Judge. I got to ask you, though timely wise, just in the last couple of days, a lot of things happening in Oregon with regard to the governor’s orders, what I’ve been calling the COVID crackdown orders. One Judge said no, they’re unconstitutional, go too far. Oregon Supreme Court said maybe, but we got to wait to hear it. Can you break any of that down for us?
Yeah, my pleasure as a former Circuit Court Judge In here in Oregon, I read the opinion by my former brother on the bench and I agreed with him. The governor has gone too far. The statute only allows her to declare an emergency and she has powers to control people’s activities for only 30 days. That has expired. It did not go before the State legislature and so she, her orders should have been null and void. And that’s what the judge decided, now goes to the Oregon Supreme Court. Unfortunately, in my opinion, having worked with them, they tend to decide ahead of time what the policy should be and then they justify the means by that policy. Hope that doesn’t happen. Either way, most likely, it’s going to end up at the United States Supreme Court.
You know, I wonder if you’ve had the same observation, Judge. Normally, we’re complaining about, no offense to you, but the court being the one out of control in America the last 30 or 40 years, mostly at the federal level, doing things outside their jurisdiction. But the last two months, it seems like it’s the Executive branch and States that governors are essentially making law on their own and unfortunate now going 6, 8, 10 weeks without having to have accountability to anybody. That just doesn’t seem like a republic to me.
No, it’s not a republican and unfortunately, is what’s happened in our culture where people don’t understand the difference between their capacity to take an action and their authority to take an action. It’s a mother, can I mother, may I? Yeah, you can shoot your sister because you have a finger and a gun. But no, you may not shoot your sister because that’s not right. That’s what’s happening with our Executive branch. They have the power and so they’re exercising it in this emergency. But under the Constitution, under a constitutional republic, they don’t have the authority and they have to be brought to task for that.
Power Vs. Authority
I love that distinction. I’m going to borrow that from you. And the first time I use it, I’ll say, my friend, Judge Vance Day says this, after that, it’s mine. I’m going to use it. That’s too good.
No problem. Most of us steal our material anyway.
So, but I’m going to get you to say it one more time. So, they have the power, but not the authority. So, they’re exercising the power, but we’ve never given them the authority?
Yeah. It’s, again, a Can I or may I? Capacity is the ability to take an action physically, but authority is a different thing. I have the capacity to take an action with a weapon: I can shoot somebody. I have the finger and a gun. But I don’t have the authority to do that, because they’re not, you know, whatever the reason is I just don’t have the authority to kill somebody. I don’t.
Well, learning those kind of things and especially even just the idea of authority and certainly, you deal with that subject over Promise Keepers as well, the idea of submitting to God’s authority as a family and men being leaders, the impact of Promise Keepers on our culture over the last several decades has just been tremendous. I know for me, early in my marriage and even before my marriage, Stu Weber and Tinder Warrior and Steve Farrar, all those books and all those guys had a big impact on my way I see the world. What’s going on with Promise Keepers? Now, catch us up and tell us how people can be involved today?
Man, it’s exciting. I got to tell you. You know, I love being a Judge and I was a good Judge. But this opportunity to serve as president of the Promise Keepers and impact the lives of millions of men and families is overwhelming and fun, because God is about calling men back to an identity in him.
The General Problem
And you know, we just talked about authority and capacity. And that’s the problem with our culture in general. Men are powerful and they have the capacity to rule over other people, particularly women. And that’s wrong, that’s not what God gave them the capacity to do. He gave them authority to serve, not to rule over people.
We are called to be servant kings, to be prophets and priests to those who are given to us to nurture or husbands, which means to take care of. It doesn’t mean to use force and violence. And as a Judge, I would see it every single day in my court, men who didn’t know their roles, going way off the rails, because, you know, they wanted to control somebody that doesn’t control us, he doesn’t, he gives us free will.
And people in our family structure should not fear us in the sense that we’re going to control and use our power to manipulate them. No. God’s called us to protect, to provide, to partner, to plan and to promote those who were under our jurisdiction. And when we do that, it gives them liberty.
I love that. And that’s, I guess, in many ways, just as we would say, you know, if you’re going to understand power and authority in our republic in the United States, you got to know the document, the Constitution itself. In the same way if you’re going to exercise the authority that God has given you as a husband or a father, you got to know the instruction manual and study His Word to be able to properly live that out.
Exactly. And that’s why this summer, we rented AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas, the heart of Dallas, Fort Worth area and we’re bringing 80,000 men together. Now, of course, with this COVID-19 thing happening, we really had to reassess that. And we were talking to, you know, the government authorities and it became pretty clear that they weren’t going to allow 80,000 men to cry and sweat and snot all over each other this summer.
Global Digital Gathering
And so, we thought, okay, Lord, this is a great opportunity, what do you want us to do? And it really became clear that we were not to cancel the event, we just shifted it to next year. So, all our ticket holders, those thousands and thousands of men who bought tickets to that event are still going to get their tickets ordered next year and they get an extra one.
Second, we’re going to do a PK Global Digital gathering. So, we’re taking our speakers adding a bunch of musicians, Michael W. Smith, Danny Gokey, you know, a whole bunch of folks, as well as sports figures and other really dynamic pastors and businessmen to speak to the men in a simulcasts one vehicle for churches and groups or a live stream for individuals and we’re giving it away for free.
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You’re saying, I could actually attend this virtual Promise Keeper event from home. I could get online and stream this summer’s Promise Keeper event?
That’s right. You can sit on your couch, in your basement, in your favorite pair of underwear like you normally do and you could really enjoy some awesome worship, great speakers and interaction. Or you can grab the simulcast if you sign up the right way and you could get, you know, 20 guys in your backyard, throw up if you have the equipment, toss up a big screen and enjoy a big barbecue and be with the guys because men making sense, that’s how it works.
I love that. So, you would get the same, yet the opportunity to get that same brotherhood and interaction and not only with your local guys, but then you’re tuning in and connecting with men all over the country at the same time?
And the globe. We expect dozens and dozens of locations throughout the world, maybe even hundreds or thousands to accept the simulcast, because it’s free. Again, it cost them nothing. And they just have to sign up and get their location on our website and then people through our website…
Visit Their Website
And that’s Promisekeepers…?
Dot org. PromiseKeepers.org.
And both of those. I can either sign up to do the individual thing at home or do the simulcast. If my church is meeting, hopefully, Lord willing by then, then my church wherever I am in the country, could also, you know, bring people together through the simulcast?
Exactly, because we really want the churches to have an opportunity to get their men together and experience that Promise Keeper’s event as a group. Because there’s something different when men get together and they’re worshiping together and they’re honoring God together and they’re learning together and they’re repenting together. It can be an individual experience, God, no doubt works that way. But when you get men together, it changes something.
It does. It does. I agree with you all the way there. That is so good. Okay, I didn’t realize that was how is going to happen this year. So, Promise Keepers.org. I’m excited about that. I want to do that myself…
31st July. July 31st. So, it’ll be Central Time. The nice thing about the simulcast, though is that you can throttle it back or forward, meaning it’s Central Time, 6pm to 9pm. But if you’re in Hawaii, you could take the simulcast and show it, you know, the same time. You don’t have to get up, you know, in the early afternoon and watch it because with a live stream, you got to take it when it’s coming. And now with the simulcast, it’s a little different.
Nice. Okay. Excellent. Well, and the website, promisekeepers.org, I encourage people to go there. Now, before I let you go, this is great. And I wish I could get you back soon and maybe we can certainly before July to talk again about the event. But David told me, I had no idea about this. So, David told me to ask you about Buck Compton from Band of Brothers, because and that’s a guy, all of my boys in my family, I mean, we loved that character in Band of Brothers. And I did not know until preparing for this interview with you that he went on to be a Judge as well like you and that you guys knew each other?
Oh, he was one of my best friends. He came to know the great salvation of the gospel sitting at my kitchen table when he was at [inaudible 15:43].
Yeah, he and I traveled together well, with Don Malarkey and Bill Garnier, Dick Winters. Carwood Lipton for about 10 years together. Malarkey and I and Compton were the three that always traveled together. And we went to Europe numerous times leading people. We spoke at the White House together. We did leadership conferences at West Point before Congress, Heritage Foundation. I mean, more fun than you can ever imagine.
Wow! That’s incredible.
Call of Duty
They were the real deal and especially Buck Compton. I mean, I help Buck write a book called ‘Call of Duty’. If you’ve never read this book, it’s a great book. And then Don Malarkey wrote a book, ‘Easy Company Soldier’ which is just a phenomenal look into how a man goes through combat and the pain and the difficulty that Malarkey experienced.
And both of them, you know, came to know Jesus and I will look forward to seeing them again. In fact, I wouldn’t be a Judge if it wasn’t for Buck Compton, really encouraging me to put my name into a gubernatorial appointment and I told him, I’m a Christian. I’m a Republican. I’m conservative. I’m a white guy and I am no Democrat is going to appoint me. And Buck said, no, no, no, put your name in and I got appointed.
Wow! Wow! That’s incredible, oh to get to travel with those guys and do those kind of events. And you actually went on to do, you know basically Courts for Veterans and really looked into that situation. I know we don’t have time to go deep into that, can you give us a little bit about that though?
Sure. We put together a community Court of Veterans court, which instead of treating veterans like criminals, we treated them like participants who needed to get healthy and whole. And we brought in doctors and psychiatrists and mentors and created a whole program that touches the lives of dozens and dozens of men and women who had suffered so much. It was wonderful.
I love it. I love it. Judge, what a privilege. I appreciate your time. I hope we can get you back again. This has been fantastic. Thank you for all you do. Looking forward to the Promise Keepers’ event this summer. And by the way, I did also read last night, you, I’m sure already knew this. But Compton was also, he was the prosecutor against Sirhan. Sirhan? I mean, I had no idea. And he played baseball at UCLA with Jackie Robinson? Unbelievable.
Yeah, they were roommates on the road.
Wow. That’s just cool.
And he was the starting guard in the 1943 Rose Bowl team where UCLA lost 3-9 against Georgia.
Wow! Oh, wow. Oh, too good. Too good. Love it. Judge, God bless you, brother. Let’s do it again soon.
I look forward to it. I’ll see you then.
Alright, stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.
Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution, but just felt like, man, the classes are boring or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago or I don’t know where to start? People want to know but it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the Constitution either.
Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. And it’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the Constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the cradle of liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders library, where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our founding fathers.
We call it the Quickstart Guide to the Constitution because in just a few hours through these videos, you will learn the citizen’s guide to America’s Constitution, you’ll learn what you need to do to help save our constitutional republic. It’s fun, it’s entertaining and it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at wallbuilders.com.
We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us and thanks to Judge Vance Day for joining us as well. David, Tim, we got to get him back. Man, that was fantastic. And really looking forward to that Promise Keeper’s event this summer.
Yeah, it’s going to be a great event and the fact that they already had 80,000 men for their… I keep calling at Texas Stadium, but it’s Cowboy stadium. I mean, that’s going to be quite an event.
Yeah. And let me backup first, before we get too much into the Promise Keepers. First of all, as a Judge, I thought he made some really, really good points about there’s a distinction between can you and should you? And just because you can do something, that doesn’t mean you have the authority to do something, as you can point out with criminals, right? Just because you can go and rob a bank doesn’t mean that’s what you’re supposed to do, should do or have the authority to do that.
And looking at that distinction, where, certainly in the midst of all we’re seeing in culture around us, there’s a lot of people who are abusing authority because they can, not because they have the authorization or legal constitutional standing to do so. And so, I thought that was a really great point.
Rick, there were so many things you got into that and by knowing Judge Vance, there’s hours more you all could have talked on so many issues and including the Band of Brothers guys, which not leave them now, we’ll get to them next, right? But yeah, looking at Promise Keepers, it’s great that something is being restored in culture, a movement to help raise up men to be men in a culture that seems so confused on even what is a male, what is a man anymore where we have all these battles over gender and over guys playing girls sports and right, all the craziness going on. Man, there’s never that I can think of been a better time for men to rise up in culture.
So, to see kind of a restoration of Promise Keepers, dad, as you mentioned having 80,000 people signed up and then obviously with Coronavirus, you know, all the silly stuff going on. But to be able to say okay, so instead of doing this in-person meeting and assembly, we’re going to just do a virtual, but it’s going to be global.
And we had a chance to talk to him about it, Rick, just a couple weeks ago and he was giving detail about some of the partnerships they have and they’re looking at with nations around the world and what they’re going to be able to do. And so, this is something almost a little bit like the Romans 8:28 that we know that God causes all things to work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to his purpose. That sometimes these scenarios, something happens they’ll say, oh my gosh, we’re sorry, you’re not going to do this in-person meeting. And you think, oh, this is terrible. What are we ever going to do? And the reality is this could be much greater, much more impactful, having much greater spread than it ever could for an in-person meeting.
And certainly, looking at this global event, it’s pretty exciting to see that there’s an opportunity for something really special to happen. And we’ve seen a list of a few of the names that have not been officially announced yet, some of the people that are going to be part of this it’s going to be a really special event that I’m excited to be able to watch and in that manner participate in this summer.
And like you said, I mean his perspective on these things. I think I’m going to use that from now on, the whole thing about, “You might have the power to do it, but not the authority”. That fits so well with our Constitution classes and the concept of literally giving your consent to government to do certain things. It’s a great way to look at what government can or can’t do and what we can or can’t do in our situations of authority or power.
Oregan Supreme Court
Well, I was really struck to by another statement he made. Where he said that in dealing with the Oregon Supreme Court, he said, so often they decide ahead of time what they want the outcome to be and then look for arguments to justify it. And I thought, well, that may be the Oregon Supreme Court but that’s most courts I know and that’s most governors I know. And you really should be guided by the Constitution, not by your own opinions.
And that does seem to be human nature in a lot of regards. Where even as Christian, sometimes thinking of the Bible, where we look for ways to use the Bible to justify what we think, feel or want instead of just reading and saying, no, what does the Bible actually say, right? Let’s judge it in the context of the Word and let’s get the full picture. I think it very much is human nature, as he pointed out with this Oregon court, that no human nature is we just want our way and we’re going to do what we can to kind of win our way, which is even why the notion of Promise Keepers is such a great idea to revive and have these great meetings again.
We need more men have integrity and culture who are not going to look just for how they can win their side of their opinion, but who can say what is truth? And we need Judges who are going to have the integrity to say no, what’s constitutional, what’s legal? What can we or what do we, maybe in this case, have the authority to do based on legal standing on the constitution? Really, really good perspective. And you’re right, dad, it’s more than just the Oregon court, it’s really human nature that’s the problem.
Okay, there’s a few seconds left. And got to point out and I feel like this is so ADD, we’re jumping all over the place but Band of Brothers that Judge Day got to help lead one of the guys from Band of Brothers to Christ. I mean, just guys, so cool. Rick, we’ve talked about that for your family, you guys watch Band of Brothers, maybe is it yearly you guys do this and so something that’s…
The Difference Between Authority and Power – With Judge Vance Day
Yeah, so something that you all have seen so many times. I’ve seen it, I think twice. And just such a fun series. Obviously, for listeners, it’s a graphic series. It’s intense. It’s war, a lot of things going. But to give a picture of some of what happened from somebody who was there and then knowing that Judge Day was able to lead him to Christ, just such cool closure on that story.
Yeah, so many cool stories there. We’re definitely going to have Judge Day back here on WallBuilders Live. I want to encourage people to get plugged into that Promise Keepers’ event this summer. Men, out there, it’s a great opportunity for you to come alongside other men. And there’s just something about that, that brotherhood and that encouragement of each other. This is going to be a great event. So, check that out at the website, we have a link today at wallbuilderslive.com.
And, you know, think about what Judge Day said today in terms of you might have the power, but do you have the authority? And let’s ask those questions of our public officials these days, so many overreaches of government. And it’s our job as the citizens to push back against that, to hold them accountable, to inform them sometimes, they don’t know.
And so, you got to know your rights in order to perceive when they’ve been violated and be the better prepared to defend and assert them. That’s what Chief Justice John Jay told us, the first Chief Justice, back one of the guys that wrote the Federalist paper. So, the instruction manual on the Constitution, he said signed the Constitution, helped to create it. I would say, he knew what he was talking about and we need to hear his advice today. Let’s make sure we know our rights. You can do that at constitutioncoach.com today.
You can go to wallbuilderslive.com and get more of these programs. And the more you listen to them, the more you’re going to learn about these very important rights and how to properly assert them. By the way, while you’re at wallbuilderslive.com, we sure would appreciate you considering that one-time or monthly contribution. We do appreciate your support and it is helping to save America’s Constitution, it’s helping to restore our constitutional republic.
Thanks so much for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.