Baby Baskets Are Saving Lives: The pro-life movement isn’t just about unborn babies! Join us today as we talk about how being pro-life covers every stage from conception to natural death. Also learn about the growing number of abandoned babies here in the U.S. and what some states are working on doing about it. Tune in now to hear more!

Air Date: 01/15/2019

Guest: Pat Colbeck

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. Always from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. Tim Barton is with us. He’s a national speaker and pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator.

You can find out more about us at WallBuildersLive.com and also find out a little bit more about our stations across the country. And you can even get some of the archives of our program over the last few weeks if you’ve missed some of those. You can also download those and listen to them on your phone in the car or wherever you might be. Be sure to check out all those tools at WallBuildersLive.com.

We also encourage you to go to WallBuilders.com. Now, that’s our main website. That’s where you can get all of our different curriculums, video programs, books, all kinds of tools, that you can use in your Sunday school class, in your home with your children, yourself, your friends and family, your tea party group, wherever you might be. These are great tools for you to be able to equip and inspire not only yourself, but the people around you and get them engaged in the culture and being good citizens.

Now, while you’re there at WallBuilders.com, we’d also ask you to consider making a donation. There’s a great place there for you to make a one time or monthly donation for the radio program. It allows us, as a listener supported program, to not only stay on the air and be able to have the great interviews like we’re going to have today, and the Foundations of Freedom Thursday programs, and Good News Friday programs, and all that. But it also allows us to expand, to be able to do our training programs for pastors, and for legislators, and for young people. All the different things that we’re doing, it’s because of you. So, be sure and check out WallBuilders.com and make that donation there.

Later in the program, Senator Pat Colback will be with us. We’ll be talking about some legislation out of Michigan that came down the pike just the last few weeks. David, Tim,  this is this is going to be a pro-life program today.

But sometimes when we say “pro-life” or “pro-abortion” we tend to be I guess is simplistic in thinking that’s just simply whether abortion is legal or illegal, we also don’t recognize the victories of incrementalism and how much we have reduced abortion over the last few decades by winning particular legislative battles that didn’t necessarily get rid of abortion completely, but it changed things like parental notification, or parental consent, or informed consent – getting the information in front of a mother so she knows, and she can see the pictures, and see that that’s life.

So, there’s a lot of other aspects to this whole pro-life thing. Today’s is actually after the baby’s born. A pro-life issue that we’re dealing with today for after a baby is born. It’s going be pretty interesting.

One of Only Four Nations

Tim:

Yeah. Rick, as you’re mentioning, it’s easy to get fixated on the finish line and sometimes forget the journey that it takes to get to the finish line. It would be so simple, right, if somebody had a magic wand and could just wave this wand, or snap the fingers, or whatever it is, and just solve these problems. And there’s no doubt we still have problems in America when it comes to the abortion issue.

Now, on Good News Friday, we couldn’t even count the number of times on the program where we’ve talked about pro-life victories and we are seeing victories happen. And, yet, there’s so much work to be done when you look at the fact that there’s only four nations in the world that allow third trimester abortions. Those nations are North Korea, China, Vietnam, and America. We’re one of only four nations that allow abortion in that final trimester. When, at this point, you really can’t even argue and debate anymore if this is a fetus, if it’s tissue, if it’s an unborn child. Every sonogram picture is so clear on what this is. And yet we don’t often do a good job.

So, certainly from that perspective it’s easy to see where people get discouraged, or frustrated and, “Why aren’t we winning this battle?”, and “We should be winning this battle” and we should, but, Rick, you’re right – sometimes it’s the incremental steps that have to be taken to secure a victory. This is where we’ve worked with so many state legislators and we’ve seen so many of those incremental steps being taken. And that’s why we have on Good News Friday programs so often we’re talking about it.

But we really haven’t talked much about pro-life issues after a child born because at that point, right, hasn’t it already been decided they’re alive. So, what really is there to do after they’re alive at least in the sense of pro-life?

Conception to Natural Death

David:

But, you know, being pro-life actually we used to say that that goes from conception to the point of natural death. So, when you get into issues of euthanasia, or you get into issues of selected suicide, or physician assisted suicide, or right to die legislation, all of that kind of stuff, that’s a pro-life issue as well.

Tim:

Very much so.

David:

It’s definitely not in the womb, obviously, it could be 90 years later, but it’s still a pro-life. You believe that life comes from God and you protect natural life from its commencement at conception or before all the way until natural death.

Tim:

And because as individuals we are pro-life, and again, the reason we’re pro-life is because we have that Judeo biblical perspective that we believe what Psalms says that we were formed, God knit us together in our mother’s womb. Where Jeremiah says, “Before you were even formed, I knew you.” We understand from a Biblical perspective the value of life. But it’s not just the value of life of the unborn, dad, as you were mentioning – it’s all the way through life.

So, it’s not weird to say, “No, because I’m pro-life I care about the childhood, I care about the infancy, I care about the toddler phase, I care about the Elementary, and the Middle School, and the high school, and all the way to natural death.” Because we do recognize that life is a gift from God and valuable, therefore we care about life the whole way through. And that is why we are involved on so many things we’re involved in. Whether it’s the morality of education and what young kids are learning because we care about the value of their life. And this is where even from adoption perspective, or from a foster perspective, there’s a lot of pro-life things that can be done even with young people even after the birth.

Suicide Is a Pro-Life Issue

David:

Well, there’s a couple of issues that are pro-life issues going right now that we don’t always think of that way. But the epidemic of youth suicides, just the explosion of youth suicide – that’s a pro-life issue. That’s taking a life wrongly. That’s wrong teaching about how important life is.

And another issue that’s out there that we’re seeing more and more stories of, I think we’re becoming more aware of, is the issue of abandoned babies. Whether it be the stories of newborn babies dropped in dumpsters, or left on the side of the road, or left in restrooms at gas stations or whatever. There’s just a growing amount of stories pointing to that and that’s a pro-life issue as well. Those are live children that need to be taken care of and that is a pro-life issue.

And, interestingly, in Michigan they’ve come up with maybe a solution to help with some of that abandonment of babies, or at least to be a pro-life solution. And one of our good friends, Senator Pat Colback, who has now termed out of Michigan, but was just recently involved in this debate in Michigan, has some pretty good ideas on solutions and how they came to these solutions on dealing with this particular part of the pro-life debate.

Rick:

It’s all about saving lives. That’s what this program today is about as well and it’s a really important part of the pro-life movement. Senator Pat Colback our special guest today. Stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

A Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Too often today history education excludes great black heroes from the American founding. Such as Lemuel Haynes.

Haynes, though abandoned as a baby, pioneered churches across upper New England. He became the first black American to pastor a white congregation, to receive an honorary master’s degree, and to be ordained by a mainstream Christian denomination, The Congregationalist.

He was a soldier during the American Revolution and in his churches on George Washington’s birthday he regularly preached sermons honoring George Washington. Even late in his life he expressed his willingness to go back to battle if necessary to protect America, which he called, “a sacred ark.”

American history is filled with numerous examples of black heroes who are largely ignored by mainstream education today. For more information about Pastor Lemuel Haynes and other colonial Patriots go to WallBuilders.com.

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us. Our good friend, Pat Colbeck, with us former state senator from the great state of Michigan. Pat, always good to have you, brother.

Pat Colbeck:

Hey, great to be with you, Rick.

Rick:

Hey, this sounds weird “former” you just, you finished up your term there, or terms. Let’s see, you get elected– when did Trey and I come up there and campaign with you? That was 10? 2010? 2008?

Pat Colbeck:

I think, yeah, that was the elections. I started serving January 1st, 2011.

Rick:

2011, alright. Okay, so eight years, a lot of great things happened while you were there, man. You guys accomplished a lot. You came in, didn’t wait around, hit the ground running, a lot of victories. We’ve had you on the program so many times just talking about good stuff coming out of Michigan that you guys have passed or were working on. Even solutions, national solutions, on healthcare and other things.

So, there’s a million different things we could talk to you about, but going into the new year here one of the cool things you all just did just as you were finishing up your term was this bill for baby boxes–

Pat Colbeck:

Yeah.

Baby in a Box

Rick:

–saving abandoned babies. Tell us a little bit about this. It kind of started a few years back and you guys basically upgraded this process and made it safer and better. So, kind of take us back and give us a little history here.

Pat Colbeck:

Well, as you might imagine there’s– the idea of having a baby when you’re unprepared to have a baby can be pretty frightening for a lot of people and they’re embarrassed. Many times they’ve been ostracized by their family. But if they do carry the baby to term they may start freaking out about, “Well, what do I do next? I can’t handle this baby.”

So, that’s the idea of what they call “baby in a box” for lack of a better term was to have some way of providing people that are facing these circumstances with a way that’s going to more likely help them put that baby into a safe environment. Rather than just leave the baby on the streets or abuse the baby in some way.

So, the idea is that somebody facing circumstances could drop off a baby in a safe compartment, climate controlled, at a police station or at a fire station and then the folks at the police and the fire station or police station are automatically notified when somebody has to drop off a baby in that facility. And that way that baby’s safe, the parents remain anonymous. And then we’ve got a path to getting that baby the care and upbringing that they need.

Rick:

And I think it’s so important, Pat, to talk about the– what you’re really preventing and saving here because the abandonment that causes infanticide is a real problem, it does happen. I know my gut reaction to this– this was back 18, 19, years ago, I think, in my second term as a Texas legislator. And this a similar type bill actually just allowing for making firehouses and police stations a place for safe surrender in this situation. My initial reaction was negative. I thought–

Pat Colbeck:

Yeah.

Is This Going to Encourage the Wrong Thing?

Rick:

–“Well, isn’t that going to encourage people to give up their baby–

Pat Colbeck:

Yeah.

Rick:

— “and do you really want to help make that easy and all of that?” Part of that was I didn’t realize how bad the problem was and then I would read the stories of a baby being found in horrible situations – dumpsters–

Pat Colbeck:

Yeah.

Rick:

–and everything else.

Pat Colbeck:

Exactly.

Rick:

And that woke me up and I was like, “Okay, this is a real problem.” So, I don’t know – did you kind of go through that same thing initially?

Pat Colbeck:

Yeah, absolutely. The first time I saw this bill I was going, “Why do we need this?” And then when you start putting yourself into their shoes – into the shoes of a parent like this – and first of all you show an appreciation for the fact that they did carry the baby to term. They did not abort the baby.

Rick:

That’s right.

Pat Colbeck:

And second of all you’ve got to sit there and say they probably, now they’re feeling shame, they’re overwhelmed. It’s a very vulnerable spot to be in. And to provide a safe haven for the baby, they call them baby drop boxes, and get it to a responsible organization like a fire station or a police station, I think that’s the best we can do in those circumstance.

The Bill Didn’t Have a Happy Ending

Pat Colbeck:

Ideally, the baby stays at home and gets raised by his parents and there’s no issue with the need for this legislation. That’s that ideal world that we don’t seem to live in. And, ideally, I would love to do that. But, thankfully, the majority of my colleagues in the legislature supported thes baby dropbox bills. But unfortunately, did not have a happy ending and the governor, Governor Rick Snyder, actually vetoed the bill.

Rick:

No kidding.

Pat Colbeck:

Yeah. Despite having 97 votes in support out of 110 in the House, and 30 votes of support in the Senate – and that’s bipartisan bill – the governor in his veto letter stated that he didn’t believe it was appropriate to allow parents to surrender a baby by simply depositing the baby into a device. Kind of that first stage of–

Rick:

Reaction, yeah.

Pat Colbeck:

Reasoning that me and you had, right?

Rick:

Yeah.

Pat Colbeck:

You’ve got to think deeper in it. You’ve got to put yourself into the situation of those parents and remember we’re here to protect life. That’s a basic function of government–

Rick:

Right.

Pat Colbeck:

–is to secure the rights of the governed. Which is– and first and foremost among those is the right to life.

We Think Everybody Thinks Like Us

Rick:

I don’t know if this is going to fly or not, Pat, so we’ll see if this works, but–

Pat Colbeck:

Alright.

Rick:

I was reading a book recently and I had, it really is one of those things kind of an epiphany moment where the guy was talking about how we sometimes only think– we think everybody thinks like us.

Pat Colbeck:

Right.

Rick:

And in business when you’re marketing something you tend to market it to the way you think and how you would buy. His point was most people aren’t like you–

Pat Colbeck:

Right.

Rick:

–and you can’t rationalize why they make a decision to buy. So, that was dealing with marketing and business, but I think that fits here. Because, for us, we’re thinking, “Of course I would never just leave my baby somewhere like that. And we shouldn’t make it easier for people to do that.”

But we have to get out of our mind and get into their mind, and their life situation, and say, just like you just said, yes, the ideal situation is that we would convince them to be a good parent and all those things. But if we don’t have the opportunity to do that, we don’t even know who these people are, wouldn’t we rather have a solution that saves the life of the baby than just holding out for the ideal situation. Let’s deal with the problem we’ve got and then work towards getting to those ideal situations. Is that kind of how you– kind of what you came to?

It Only Takes One

Pat Colbeck:

Oh, exactly. And, frankly, all you need to do is see a baby in a dumpster once to realize that there’s got to be a better way–

Rick:

Yeah.

Pat Colbeck:

–and there’s got to be a way to safeguard this from happening.

Rick:

Yeah, well, the– I guess now the laws that were passed back around 2000 I guess, those stayed in effect as far as you can– you’re allowed to, the fire stations would still be a safe haven, it’s just that you won’t have these climate controlled baby boxes that are safer?

Pat Colbeck:

Yes.

Rick:

Is that–

Pat Colbeck:

Exactly. Yeah, which really heightens how ill informed the governor was on this veto in the first place because this is just making these drop boxes even more effective and safer for the kid.

Rick:

Yeah yeah. Well, is there– before I let you go is there anybody, any of your colleagues, that you think will take this back up this next time around? I guess, now you’ve got a pro– I guess you’ve got a pro abortion governor now, right? I can’t remember who won in Michigan.

Pat Colbeck:

Yeah. Democratic governor, Governor Whitmer. But, frankly, I can’t say that our– my former Governor, Rick Snyder, was pro-life. He vetoed my Choose Life License Plate bill as well you may recall.

Rick:

Oh, that’s right.

Work Hard for the Next Round

Pat Colbeck:

So, this is a case where he actually got the endorsement of our Right to Life group, but when it came to actual– And he even vetoed a telemedicine bill towards the end which precluded these abortions over the Internet, essentially, which is very concerning. So, we’ve got essentially a changing of the guard, but in regards to life I don’t think we’re going to see much difference here in the state of Michigan.

Rick:

Got to work hard for the next round then. We’ll–

Pat Colbeck:

Absolutely. Actually, we’re forming a grassroots alliance that’s going to start providing financial support for candidates that do support life, and stick up for it, and actually push it. We could have overridden the video– the veto on this if it was done earlier in the session. There’s no reason that this bill should have been pushed as late as lame duck in the first place.

So, anyway, there’s a lot of things you can do. We’re just disappointed on this particular issue. But as you said earlier in the beginning here, there’s a lot of things that we can celebrate, particularly, over the last eight years. Michigan indeed has turned around significantly under Republican leadership. Now they’ve got Republican– or now we’ve got a Democratic governor, but still control both the Senate and the House. We’ll see how things go.

Rick:

Yeah, yeah. Alright, we’ll see what happens in 2019. And this, of course, is an idea that other states can take up. Indiana, Ohio–

Pat Colbeck:

Absolutely.

Rick:

–Pennsylvania, have done it – a few others. So, would love to see that spread across the country.

Pat Colbeck, always a pleasure, brother. Look forward to the next time we get you on to visit.

Pat Colbeck:

Great to be with you, my friend. Knock them alive in 2019.

Rick:

Sounds great. Stay with us, folks. We were back with David and Tim Barton.

This Precarious Moment Book

David:

This is David Barton. I want to let about a brand new book we have called This Precarious Moment: Six Urgent Steps That Will Save You, Your family, and Our Country. Jim Garlow and I have co-authored this book and we take six issues that are hot in the culture right now.

Issues that we’re dealing with, issues such as immigration, race relations, our relationship with Israel, the rising generation Millennials, and the absence of the church in the culture wars, and where American heritage is, our godly heritage. We look at all six of those issues right now that are under attack and we give you both Biblical and historical perspective on those issues that provide solutions on what each of us can do right now to make a difference.

These are all problems that are solvable if we’ll get involved. So you can grab the book This Precarious Moment and find out what you can do to make a difference. This Precarious Moment is available at WallBuilders.com.

Rick:

We’re back on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Special thanks to Senator Pat Colbeck for joining us. Back with David and Tim Barton now.

Guys, as I shared with Pat, that was a weird process for me in the legislature just didn’t my initial reaction was very negative to the legislation and even the idea because I was afraid it would encourage it. I don’t think from anything I’ve seen that it has encouraged people that would have kept their baby to not keep their baby. But it has encouraged moms that were in– or dads that just felt like, as Pat said, they had nowhere else to go to not abandon the baby completely to death, but instead abandon it to another family and to life.

So, I– what little bit I’ve read about it lately, it has turned out to be a victory in states that have passed this. But this baby box thing was totally new to me. I didn’t realize they had even found a better way to do this. It’s too bad that the governor vetoed the law.

Already a Victory on Some Level

Tim:

Well, I think it’s a very interesting point that he acknowledged the fact that they would even have the baby to drop off somewhere, right, the fact they didn’t abort the baby – it’s already a victory on some level. For many of these situations where they recognize the value of life on some level– because, dad, even during the interview you were looking up and it was how many– there were tens of thousands that are abandoned at hospitals, right? So, it’s not just that these babies are being left to die, necessarily, although there are a few situations where it does happen. By and large they’re being left where someone will care for them.

So, it is something that I can internally go, “Oh, man, my heart breaks for a person that would be in a situation where they care for the value of the life of the child, but they don’t feel adequately or whether it’s financial, emotional, physical, whatever it is, they don’t feel prepared to be able to help. And I thought it was interesting that Pat pointed out that, “Hey, it’s already legal in our state–”

David:

Yeah.  

Tim:

–“to drop them off at a police station or at a fire department and they already can do that anonymously. And we just wanted to have a safer condition for the kid.”

David:

That’s really the deal at risk because, like you said, there’s guilt, or “we don’t know what to do”. So, there’s a level of anonymity that those parents won’t because they drop them off and don’t want to be seen. But the deal is if you drop them off in the winter time Detroit, you’re putting that kid at risk if you’ve got the kind of snow and whatever they have there. Or you drop a kid off in August in Texas – same thing.

So, what the baby box does is actually provide a much safer environment that also has sensors on the inside that notify authorities when a baby is placed in that box. So, it’s still– the parents can be an anonymous like dropping off– they used to drop it off on the doorsteps of churches because they knew a church would take care of them. But churches don’t go to church every day anymore like they used to. So, now you do it at hospitals. But that baby box is really a good way of creating safety for something that’s already happening anyway. So, it really is a good idea they had Michigan.

Rick:

It’s a great idea. It’s happened– a few states have actually passed the legislation and more are going to take it up this year in 2019. Let’s take a quick break, guys. We’ll be right back. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Front Sight Training Course

Rick Greens here, from WallBuilders Live. What do Dennis Prager, Larry Elder, Ben Shapiro, Rick Greene, Tim Barton, David Barton, have in common other than the fact that they’re conservative commentators that defend the Constitution?

They’re raving about Front Sight Firearms Training Institute. Go to my website right now at RickGreen.com. You can watch the video of Dennis Prager training at Front Sight, or Larry Elder, or Tim Barton and myself out there. It’s an opportunity for you to learn how to defend yourself and your family. It is a fantastic place to train. They train 30 to 40,000 people a year, and they’re just wonderful to work with. You can go with us. We’re headed back out.

We’re going to have a great time out there, and if you’re a supporter of WallBuilders, we’re going to treat you. If you’re a donor of WallBuilders, you’ll be able to go to this Front Sight class for free. It normally cost a thousand dollars, go to FrontSight.com right now. You’ll see that it’s a thousand dollars to attend their two-day class. You are going to be able to go for free, if you’re a supporter of WallBuilders Live.

So, check out that information at RickGreen.com and join us. We are going once a month for the next three months. You can pick one of those classes. All of our previous classes have filled up. Make sure that you get online today and get signed up. Whether you’ve never shot before, or you’ve shot your whole life, you will enjoy this class. You’ll enjoy the fellowship. We’ll be training on the range during the day and studying the Constitution at night. What a great combination. Check it out today at RickGreen.com

A Great Time to Be Acting on This

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Got just a few minutes left here. Guys, as we were going to the break we were talking about other states potentially considering this in 2019, so all our listeners from across the country can take action on this. They can call their state rep, state senator, encourage them to pick up this piece of legislation. Right now is a great time to do that. In a vast majority of states right now this is the filing time for their for their 2019 legislative session. So, it’s actually a great time to be acting on this.

David:

And it is a great time, too, because legislators are often looking for ideas right now. I’ve talked in the last week to a number of legislators who have called and saying, “Hey, what do you think about this? How about if we do this? Do you know of something we can do in this area?” So, they’re looking for ideas and this is a great time to contact your local state rep or state senator and say, “Hey, we just heard about this great thing that happened up in Michigan and they passed it in three or four other states. We ought to look at this in our state.”

So, it’s the kind of thing that now, you’re right, Rick, this is the right time, this is the filing period for bills and these guys are looking for ideas. And this is a really good solid pro-life idea that, even as Pat said, this is a bipartisan deal. They could have overridden the veto if they’d had enough time because the Democrats were with them on this as well. So, this is a nice good safe pro-life bill to be able to introduce and pass.

Baby Baskets Are Saving Lives

Rick:

We’ll have links today to the legislation out of Michigan that Senator Colbeck was a part of so that if you want to take a copy of that and get it in the hands of your state legislator that’s a great way to give them something they can model and do this legislative session.

Also, still want to encourage you to visit our website today – WallBuildersLive.com for the programming. You can get the archives, the stations, all that information.

And then WallBuilders.com for that donation. You can do a one time donation or a monthly donation. It helps us continue to bring this good news to you and help equip and inspire you. So, if you like WallBuilders Live and you’d like to see us expand, and be able to get more stations, and reach more people, then make a donation right there at WallBuilders.com.

We sure appreciate you listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.