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Biblical Citizenship In Modern America, Week 8: Article V – With Mark Meckler: How do we reign in the federal government? Who are the most powerful individuals in our government? Is there a proper time to amend the Constitution? How many amendments have been proposed through the years? Could Article V save our government? Tune in to hear Mark Meckler answer these questions and more as we continue with Biblical Citizenship in Modern America!

Air Date: 11/16/2022

Guest: Mark Meckler

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture

Rick:

Welcome to WallBuilders Live, the intersection of faith in the culture. We’re taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. And this week, if you were listening yesterday, you already know this, but if you’re just tuning in today, we are sharing with you week eight of Biblical Citizenship.

That’s the final week in that eight week course where we talk about action items that everyone can take in their communities. Yesterday, we started it. We went as far as we could in the programming time that we have. And right now we’re going to dive right back in and pick up where we left off yesterday with Biblical Citizenship in Modern America.

Lives, Fortunes, Sacred Honor      

Rick:

Do you know, what I’m really asking you to do? I’m asking you to give up your lives, your fortunes, and your sacred honor, just like these guys did. When they came forward and signed beneath that amazing final sentence and they pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor, they gave it. I’m asking you to give of your life, your time.

Your life is your time. I’m asking you to give a few hours a week to help work the system because the system will work. What they created will work if we’ll work it. Your fortunes, giving of your money, the good causes out there, good candidates out there, that will be good government. And sacred honor, that’s the willingness for all of us to stand up and speak the truth.

Don’t be afraid of, let the chips fall where they may; people don’t call me, they do call me all kinds of names. You know what? They’re not shooting at me. I mean, these guys that served and were willing to give their lives and that bullets whizzed past their heads, that sacrifice. Man, it’s easy for me to stand up, speak the truth and let people call me whatever they want. That’s sacred honor. Lives, fortunes and sacred honor, give of it. Invest in those three areas. So you do it for Congress. You do it for the President.

So in Article II, what is our job? It’s voting. It’s being involved in choosing a good president. You say Article III, Rick, what could I possibly do there? Those judges are appointed by the president. I can’t influence that. Well, you influence who the US senators are that are going to prove those Judges. And you get involved with the local level back home in your state. About half the states elect their state judges. That’s the farm team. So you can influence who the farm team is that will later be the federal Judges.

And then you can support some of these great organizations out there, Alliance Defense Fund, and ACLJ and Pacific Justice Institute and Liberty Counsel and just great legal organizations that are arguing before the Supreme Court and helping to raise up good attorneys and good judges. Article IV, I mentioned earlier, we’re Republic, not a democracy. Educate people on that. It’s right there in Article IV.

Which Spies Do You Want to Emulate?

Get plugged in. Listen to our radio program daily, we’re going to encourage you. We’re not a doomsday organization. A lot of people you know, they run around the country saying it’s all over, America is done for. Grab your guns and canned food, go hot out at the ranch. You know, I can’t stand people like that. Man, they’re depressing. They could light up this room by leaving. My friend Dr. Jarvis, he says they got Mental BO. It’s like they’ve been weaned on a pickle or something, drink milk out of a churn. I mean, they’re just depressing all the time. There’s wack cloud follows them around. We don’t have to be like that.

You know, that reminds me, those 10 spies that came back from the promised land and said oh, it’s too hard. The giants are too big. There’s no way we could… But they depress the people. The Bible says that an entire generation had to die in the wilderness because the bad report from those 10. Let’s be like the other two spies.

Remember who the other two were? Joshua and Caleb. Joshua and Caleb saw the same challenges, the same giants, all the same stuff, they came back and I said yeah, it’s going to be hard. Oh yeah, giants, huge giants, it’s going to be tough. We’re going to have to take the land a little bit at a time. But they said God’s given us the land. Let’s go take it.

These guys gave us a great system of freedom, a system that works, let’s go out there and work the system. Let’s be optimistic. Let’s be joyful in what we do. We don’t have to be angry. We can be excited about having freedom and just get out there and participate in it. Also, the amendments, you can find one of those amendments make it your pet peeve project and help them make it happen. Watch out for those treaties. We talked about the danger of the treaties. Make sure you’re burning up the phones, call the senators if it’s a bad one, and then live the Bill of Rights.

You go live out these freedoms. What good, are they just of words on paper? You got to live them. So when it comes that freedom of religion, get out there and live out your faith. When it comes to that freedom of speech, speak the truth with boldness. Don’t be afraid to speak out.

That freedom of the press, man, you be the press. You can start your own blog, your own newspaper, all those things. You can do that. And Facebook, all those things, we have tools that just, I mean, boggle the mind. You can reach more people in an instant than the Founding Fathers could do in weeks.

Think about their Committees of Correspondence. I mean, how long you got to wait for the Sons of Liberty to send one letter from Boston, let’s say, down to somewhere in Virginia and now the letter is going to get back. And I mean, we can send a tweet and thousands of people get that Committees of Correspondence. We need to be the new Committees of Correspondence. We need to get out there and be active that way. Assemble every chance you get just like we did here, just like you can do back home in your community and petition so that your voice is heard.

BIBLICAL CITIZENSHIP IN MODERN AMERICA

Guest 1:

Hey, guys, we’re the Green family. We’re here in Philadelphia Independence Hall. This is the very room, the authentic room where the Constitution was signed and ratified. This is where the Founding Fathers duped it out and created that incredible document. And we just want to tell you guys that you have got to come here and experience just the awe of this room, the power and just the history that emanates in this room. It’s really truly incredible.

Guest 2:

Well, things for sure, when you sit in this room, it is genuinely like just all struck; everything is just different. Because when you’re actually standing here, you can feel the presence, you can touch the walls. You can’t go past the railing. But you can just really feel the amazing presence in this room.

Rick:

I was telling mom, when we were walking up here tonight as many times as we’ve been here, I still get chills every time. This really is my favorite room and all of history.

Guest 3:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we came here when we were kids and we would recite words from the Declaration and the Constitution. and we thought maybe knew what we were talking about. But we really were just reciting it. And now that we’re older, we truly understand, at least we’re partly understanding.

We’re learning more and more every day. But we now understand what we were talking about. And so it’s really cool to come back here and think we were here at one point and didn’t fully understand it and now we actually have a grasp…

“A More Perfect Union”

Rick:

You know, we’re all on that journey. I mean, we’re all citizens working hard to create a more perfect union, as they said, in the preamble to the Constitution. And we want to encourage you get your family and come to Philadelphia, come visit Independence Hall. It is absolutely amazing. You walk in here, the Rangers are incredible.

They’ll tell you all kinds of great stories about the founding of our country. You get to see the Liberty bill. It’s a great experience. If you don’t get a chance to come physically come yourself, watch “Chasing American Legends”, or our Constitution class, we try to let you live it through our eyes if you don’t get the chance to travel out here. But we really do encourage you to come. There’s something about walking in the footsteps of the founding fathers.

Either way, we sure hope that you will accept the torch of freedom and that you will become a citizen that wants to preserve this nation and pass the torch of freedom to the next generation.

Welcome back to Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. It’s time to talk about how do you actually change the constitution. David, is there a proper time to amend the Constitution? Obviously, so we’ve done it 27 times.

CONSTITUTION ALIVE

David:

Well, the cool thing about Article V is this is the way to evolve the Constitution. You know that the progressive folks say oh, it needs to be a living, breathing, evolving document. I agree as long as the people are doing it, not as some unelected judge or someone else.

Rick:

Or the president by him or herself, I mean, it’s we the people doing it.

David:

It’s we the people. And the amendment process, the way it’s required, it’s sets an high enough bar that it has to be the people really behind it. It can’t just be an interest group over here, you get people showed up for… This is a really a pretty cool book that it lists and covers all the constitutional amendments that have been proposed in the Constitution. And it goes from 1789 all the way up until this book is 1995.

Rick:

So, you said proposed, so in other words, these are all the amendments that any member of Congress or state has said here’s our suggestion and amendment that should be done?

David:

That’s right. These are the ones that have officially been entered into Congress to look at action. So they’ve been written up, they’ve been drafted, they’ve been introduced. They had some action, and either the people weren’t enough behind it or whatever else. You know, how many have been proposed in that period of time? We’re talking 206 years there.

How Many Amendments?

Rick:

I would say a bunch. I would think a lot.

David:

In that period time, 10,900 amendments.

Rick:

Well, that’s more than I would have thought. I would have been thinking hundreds. But it’s been thousands.

David:

10,900, and how many of them actually been added to the Constitution? 27, which meant those are 27 people wanted added. And so when they get added, the people get behind them, because it has the support of the people.

Rick:

Well, you said the bar was high? We want it to be high. We wanted it to be a vast majority of people.

David:

See, the founding fathers constitutional convention talked about if you let Judges make policy, they start striking down stuff and implementing stuff, that people will lose respect for their government. And if you get a Supreme Court saying here’s national policy, and it dumps, what, 25 or 30 states had passed by their law, they’ve lost respect for it. When it comes from the people, and the Constitution, Article V sets the bar high enough therefore the people to make the change, you’ve got support, then they respect it, then they go ahead.

Article V

And so Article V of the Constitution is really the answer to what they tell our kids today in schools and universities, what we hear from media pundits and law professors. Well, you know, we need a constitution that keeps up with the need to date. Great. We the people know what our needs are, we’ll tell you what our needs are. Don’t you tell us what our needs are. And so this really is we the people.

And this is a fun book, just to see all the things that have been proposed. And some of them were really hard at the time. You would thought they might have passed. But this is the other thing about our Constitution, it requires your feelings to slow down over time. And you can’t just do it merely on passion. That’s a democracy that runs on passion. A republic has to run on reason. And so by the time you have debates, by the time you get the states involved, by the time it goes through, sometimes you say you know, this not the big issue, it was a year and a half ago, and I don’t think I support it anymore, because all the passion was there. So it really is a fun book.

Rick:

That means there was a lot of wisdom that went into designing even this one Article in the Constitution. I mean, they really made sure if you’re going to change this, that’s fine. If times change and you need to make an amendment to constitution, is fine. But we got the high bar, it’s going to take time. And they really thought through this and that’s why it’s been so rare that it got amended. But there might be some amendments that we need to consider going into the future.

David:

That’s right. And that’ll be up to the people. And if there are some things we felt passionate, right now people do feel passionate about the government being a threat to their liberties. Yeah, I mean the national polling is overwhelming, that the greatest danger they see to the liberties is the government.

What is the Way Back to Original Intent

Well, maybe it’s time to restrain some of those things through things like the misinterpretation of the general welfare clause necessary and proper and all that. Maybe we say, no, guys, you should have been reading the original books in the beginning, we the people still support the original belief, let’s squeeze it back.

Rick:

But that then is not really a change. That’s reasserting or clarifying what the original intent was. We’re not changing how the system would work. In those cases, we’re really clarifying and restoring what was intended.

David:

Well, I’ve been part of several attempted constitutional members in Congress, and you really got to have this. It can’t be a red amendment or a blue amendment. You’re going to have to have red and blue to come together and say, this is the change we want for the country. And that makes it much safer. Because when it’s just red or blue, the other feel it’s they get to retaliate. You know, you did this to me, so I’m going to carry this down your throat. Now, the Founding Fathers were very wise in putting this together in such a way that once it gets done, it’s because the people themselves supported it.

Rick:

Alright, we’re going to go back to Philly and we’re going to learn how to amend the Constitution, the specifics of how the process takes place. We’ll even talk about some of those possible amendments going into the future. Let’s head back to Independence Hall.

Alright, Mark, so we were just talking about Article Five and why the founder said, hey, we may need to amend this thing. This thing is not perfect from the very beginning. But there’s two ways to amend in Article V. So, why the second way?

An Incredible Story

The first way Congress does it, the Constitution creates this federal government, has an amendment process that the federal government does first and then it goes back to the States, but then something happened right at the end of the convention.

Mark:

Yeah, I think this is just an incredible story. I’m so excited to tell this story here. So it’s two days before the end of convention, September 15th 1787, they’re almost done.

Rick:

Now, wait, that’s also an important day in your family, right?

Mark:

Well, you know, it is the most important day in American history. That’s my wife, Patty’s birthday. So we can’t…

Rick:

How do you get that in here?

Mark:

I appreciate you remember that. It’s very good of you.

Rick:

You got you some points…

George Mason

Mark:

Yeah. So Colonel George Mason stands up, now imagine the setting, right, we know the story, the windows are boarded up. It’s a hot, humid summer. They’ve been in here for a long time. Mason said a lot, right. He’s spoken, I think more than anybody else at convention. They’re probably tired…

Rick:

Almost. Yeah. Governor Morris, I think, was most. But Mason mastered… You think they’re ready to go home?

Mark:

Yeah, exactly. They’re all kind of packing up. He stands up and he says, we have a problem with the Constitution as we’ve drafted it. We gave the power to the Congress, to the federal government to propose amendments if they deem them necessary. But we didn’t give the same power to the people acting through the states. And then he asked what I think is a really important question. He says, are we so naive that we believe that a federal government that becomes a tyranny will ever propose amendments to restrain its own tyranny? Kind of an obvious question, right?

Rick:

Now, wait, let me put that in. I’m a country boy. What he’s basically saying is, if you take power, you’re not likely to give it back, right? If somebody just takes power that they weren’t given, you really think they’re going to just give it up on their own?

Mark:

No, I don’t think we have any examples of this in all of human history, right? You imagine the tyrant saying I think I have too much power, so let me just give some back to the people. So he says this, and I wish we had video like we have today, because I imagine they’ll laugh. Like that’s so ridiculous. Of course, they would never give up their own power.

“Nin Com”

And we kind of know they did laugh, because Madison’s notes at that point say “nin com” a Latin abbreviation for no comment. In other words, not one of these guys objected. Mason’s right over there, I mean, we can look at this table, Virginia is sitting right over there, he makes this statement and nobody comments on it, which is just incredibly…

Rick:

Are you saying this was like a mic drop moment? [crosstalk 13:18] drop the mic?

Mark:

Yeah, and they argued about everything, right. So they didn’t argue about this. And they take a vote, it’s actually Eldridge Gary proposes this second way to amend the Constitution, a state amending convention way of amending the Constitution. They take about unanimous. So no debate, and it gets in the Constitution unanimously to give you and me the right acting through our state legislatures to call a Convention of States to propose amendment.

Rick:

So this motion was really saying, okay, well, if Mason is right, if the federal government gets outside of its boundaries, we don’t want to leave it for the feds to put them back in. The motion is basically saying we’re going to create an outside mechanism that has nothing to do with those guys that did this. The outside mechanism can put you back in the box. So both steps, it’s the states that started and it’s the states that approved it.

Rick:

Okay, friends, very quick break, we’ll be right back. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

CONSTITUTION ALIVE!

Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution, but just felt like man, the classes are boring, or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago, or I don’t know where to start? People want to know, but it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the constitution either.

Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. And it’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the cradle of liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders’ library, where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it the Quickstart Guide to the Constitution, because in just a few hours through these videos, you will learn the citizen’s guide to America’s constitution, you’ll learn what you need to do to help save our constitutional republic. It’s fun, it’s entertaining, and it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at wallbuilders.com.

Rick:

Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. We’re going to jump right back into our Biblical Citizenship in Modern America.

State Legislators

Mark:

And I think this is incredible. You know, you’ve talked to a lot of state legislators. You’ve been a state legislator. I travel all around the country.

And one of the things I always ask state legislators is, do you know that you are the most powerful person in the federal government? I usually get a blank stare. I’m a state legislator, right? And I say, look, I understand when they brought you in, and they give your orientation, they didn’t tell you about this.

But you’re the only person in the federal government with the power to call a convention, propose amendments, and ratify those amendments, and change the very structure of our federal government. I think it’s an incredible power that most state legislators don’t know that they have.

Rick:

No, there’s definitely no orientation on that, without a doubt. Most state legislators don’t know it. And unfortunately, some of them are afraid even when they find out about it to use it. But in fact, they should embrace that and say, this was a check and balance that the Founding Fathers gave us that hasn’t been used and needs to be used.

Whether you talk about some of the issues that are happening today, or you just talk about the nature of man, and the fact that this is a mechanism, you want the federal government to almost be afraid of states using this. In the same way that branches have to push back against each other, these guys called it constitutional arms for being able to push back against each other. The states have constitutional arms, and this is the main one.

Who Has the Power?

Mark:

And it’s really important right now that we take this. It’s our power. It’s actually the people’s power. You know, you think about they gave this power to the state legislators.

Why state legislators? You know, why didn’t they imbue the President with this power? They did give it to Congress. Why didn’t they give it to the courts? Why state legislators? I mean, you’ve been a state legislator. So I’m going to throw that question at you, why state legislators?

Rick:

You know, knowing a lot of the state legislators that I know, sometimes that question their wisdom. No, I think it was wise though because we’re closer. State rep is a fairly easy person to get a meeting with, right. You can hold a state legislator accountable much faster than you can hold a congressman or the president or a Supreme Court Justice accountable.

So that had to be part of what they were thinking is this is closer to the people, and it’s from the outside of the federal government. But also a lot of these guys had been state legislators. They knew what it was like to serve in that state assembly or state legislature. So maybe that had a lot to do with it as well.

Now, I do think it was wise to do it. I know a lot of people when they think about Article V, and they think about legislators doing a Convention of States and doing amendment, they think well, I don’t know if I trust these politicians in my state or in my capital or whatever. But that’s the whole idea behind the system, is that you would rather have someone that you can hold accountable closely, someone in your state than someone that’s far away.

A High Bar

Mark:

Yeah. And I think it’s actually fair not to trust them. But the Founders built a system that gets our trust. It’s not the people. Like the founders were smart. They understood human nature. They didn’t trust people.

They know we’re sinful creatures, we’re flawed inherently the way we’re created. So they built a system that created balance. So even Article V within itself has a system built in to this. And in other words, there are checks and balances throughout the Article V process. So when you initiate the process, it takes two-thirds of states.

That’s a really high bar. It’s hard to get two-thirds of states to agree. So just to get into convention is really difficult. You get in convention, and then you got to debate just like these guys did, right? Right. It’s like the convention.

Rick:

I got to tell people, one of the things that happens since we started filming here all those years ago, and most of the class that you’ve watched this point, between that time and right now as we sit here, Mark, and I got to do a simulation of what a Convention of States would be like in Colonial Williamsburg, another great place to visit.

You ought to go visit Colonial Williamsburg. And that was really neat to see it actually play out. Because even when I stood here and taught the class, I was just envisioning, in my mind trying to create this in my mind because it’s never happened, right?

That simulation, we really got to see serious legislators from all the states across the country debate the major structural issues of the day. It was really cool to see, hey, the Founders knew what they were talking about when they put this together.

One of the Coolest Things….

Mark:

You know, to me what was most interesting about being in Williamsburg, and you can watch this stuff online, I know a lot of you guys have watched this, is I saw what I would describe as good people become great and rise to the occasion. Regular legislators become statesmen and women.

They were so serious about it. One of the comments that I heard really often in the halls around that convention, people were saying, I have to keep reminding myself, this isn’t the real deal. And so they were so serious about it. And that gave me a lot of hope. So I thought if they’re taking this seriously for a simulation, imagine what the real is going to be like.

Rick:

That’s right. And one of the coolest things is that a real deal would also be covered by the news. So every American would be learning about the Constitution, as the Article V was actually lived out. That’s one of the great things I think would happen with an Article V Convention of States. Now listen, I know every week of this course is kind of that 30,000 feet view.

We talked about it being the quickstart guide. And so we’re not going to get too far into the weeds on this. But we want you to study more, all of the articles, all of the roles that we play as citizens. And specifically this one, Article V, you can go to conventioofstates.com, has a lot of great information to dive further into, how this would work, concerns people have with it, why haven’t we use it.

I do want to actually ask you that. I mean, here we have this incredible tool, I can’t think of another area of the Constitution that has sat dormant like that and not been used. Why do you think that is?

Frustrated

Mark:

It’s hard. And the Founders intended it to be hard. And I think this is something people sometimes they’re frustrated. I’ve been doing this seven years pursuing Article V. I get frustrated sometimes. You know, it’s my life’s work right now.

And so people ask, why are you frustrated taking seven years? And I have to remind myself, and I always say, well, this is exactly how the Founders intended it to be. They didn’t want us to be able to amend the Constitution easily, right?

They didn’t want people just on a whim, society changes one year, one decade you change it. They wanted the entire country to have to get together and get a very large majority just to get into convention, and then a three-quarters majority to ratify anything. They wanted this to be a difficult consensus building process.

Rick:

That’s a good reason. Alright. Well, there’s a lot more to learn about Article V and every other article and amendment in the Constitution. So let’s dive back into Constitution Alive.

So this is an idea that the founders gave us. I mean, they clearly thought this would be a good thing to do, when it was necessary. But some people have questions about how it would work if we had a Convention of State?

David:

Well, even beyond that, some people don’t even get to the question and say no, this is a terrible thing. And so it’s apocalyptic type of language that man, if we have this, they will take over the Convention. We got all these guys out there who hate the Constitution, take it over, they’ll abolish the Constitution. Wait a minute, the Founders raised the bar so high.

A Convention of States

Rick:

Yeah. I was thinking even when I said in Philadelphia, 13 states kills about amendment, but like you’re saying, actually is less than that. It’s half of those 13 states. So it’s just one legislative body out of each of those 13 states… And I have to admit, I used to be on a little bit of the fear side.

I was like, and I’m kind of worried about letting a bunch of people get together and possibly change the Constitution. It’s not just those people in that convention that are “changing and amending the Constitution”, it’s all of us. It’s got to come back to us and get our approval.

David:

Well, you know, one of the things that got my thinking, because I was in same way, I listened all the apocalyptic type of language, and I don’t want to lose the Constitution. You know, I mean, number one, we’ve already lost it. We’re not using it now.

Rick:

That’s exactly right.

David:

So what if we lose it, and that’s assuming that the worst…

Rick:

If we keep going the way we’re doing, we’re going to lose it.

We’ve Got to do Something

David:

We’re going to lose it. So we got to do something. And these are all the mites, and we are in Texas, and we might have abolishment on the 4th of July, right. And we might have a meteor come through and hit us while we’re sitting here.

And we might have a lot… But the one thing that got me was it does not endanger the Constitution to use the Constitution. Oh, I so appreciate the right to trial by during the Seventh Amendment that I’ve got a trial coming. I’m not going to use the trial by jury because I think it’s too valuable to use it.

Rick:

That’s a great, David.

David:

I support free speech, but I’m not going to use it because I might endanger the First Amendment free, is so precious, I can’t… And I’m a big defender of the Second Amendment, but I’m not going to use it.

Rick:

How can it destroy the Constitution to use the Constitution? That’s a great way to look at…

David:

If they gave you that tool, if they said, there’s two ways you can amend it, you can do it through Congress, where we’ve done it so many times, or if the states get ticked off at the federal government, and they want to say, guys, we’re pushing back, if we’re going to use this Tenth amendment approach as applied by the article five of the Constitution, it can’t hurt the constitution to uphold the Constitution by using the Constitution.

And if I take an oath to uphold the Constitution, it also includes Article V, which includes a Convention of States. I can’t say I’m taking an oath to uphold the Constitution except Article V. I like the part about amendments through Congress. I don’t like the part of that convention. I can’t do it.

Rick:

And I remember in an earlier section, you were talking about the fact that not only do we have that horizontal separation of powers and those checks and balances, but that vertical one as well. Isn’t this a way for the states to actually push back against the encroachment from the feds? Is this the proper way to do it?

David:

You remember the Federalist Papers talked about that every one of those bodies had constitutional arms of self-defense. States, they had senators appointed. First off, we lost that through the Seventh Amendment. But they have the Tenth amendment to defend them. And they also have a Convention of States, Article V, to defend them. Those are all tools that were given them by the Founding Fathers so the states could push back against federal overreach.

So those are all potential uses. And quite frankly, the debate will go on and it’s gone on for a long time. It went on back then. That’s why they included that. It was not a novel idea that they just came up with out of thin air.

It’s because there were discussions already going on this topic back then. And so it’s just new in our generation. It’s been resurrected in our generation. You know, some did this by calling for a balance in budget amendment back a couple of decades ago. There’s still some calls for that.

And that’s fine. Whatever it is, we’re having to look at the Constitution afresh and anew. But my position is you do not endanger the Constitution by using the Constitution.

Rick:

That’s right. And you know, you said also before we went to Philadelphia, this idea of because it’s drawn out, and there’s a lot of debate and a lot of logic and a lot of reason, I mean, that’s a good thing. If you think about it, this would cause it’d be in the news, everybody would be learning about the Constitution, each state is going to be debating this in their state legislatures. I can’t see how that’s bad. That’s Good for us to get more educated about the Constitution and discuss these things.

David:

And on the side that we might wipe out the government. Now wait a minute, this is going to take a process years to get done. And by the time we have debates in the legislatures of all 50 states, and by the time you have a House and Senate debate, and by the time you see if you can get 38 states to come together on this, this is going to be thoroughly vetted through the people, we will have had discussions extensively on this. And by the way, the notion of being able to wipe out the Constitution at such a convention, and it doesn’t exist.

Biblical Citizenship In Modern America, Week 8: Amendments – With Mark Meckler

Rick:

Yeah, that’s a totally false premise.

David:

I mean, remember, the current polling is right now, nearly three-quarters of the nation respects the Constitution. They don’t think that mean is right. But they respect it. So they’re not going to be willing to wipe this thing out.

Rick:

Well, and specifically to that I’ve heard people say, well, what if you had a Convention of States and they do the same thing that they did in the first, that’s not possible because again, it’s still whatever they do has to come back to the states. It’s got to come back to us and you got to have 38 approved.

David:

That’s right. And it’s interesting Article V actually limit set by saying amendments to this Constitution. It doesn’t say you come out with a new Constitution. You know, the original Constitution of convention, they just met there to revise the Articles of Confederation. They came up with a whole new document. No. Because had that violated what the States sent them, therefore the states would not have ratified it.

Rick:

Okay, folks at a time for today. This was part two in a four part series this week, where we are covering Biblical Citizenship in Modern America. Be sure to tune in tomorrow, we’ll pick up right where we left off today. And you can get the whole course by the way at biblicalcitizens.com, biblicalcitizens.com. Thanks so much for listening to WallBuilders Live.