Biden Pushes Back Religious Liberty Policies – With Brad Dacus: Should people be surprised that Biden continues to roll back religious liberty provisions Trump put in place? Why the continual push to force Christians to violate their conscience or purge faith-based businesses? Why is the Administration trying to hinder some of the most effective help to prisoners? Where can you go to get information on exemptions or how to defend your religious freedom when doing business with the federal government? Tune in to hear Brad Dacus from the Pacific Justice Institute answer these questions and more!

Air Date: 12/08/2021

Guest: Brad Dacus

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


This is the intersection of faith and the culture. You have found the right place if you want to be able to influence what’s going on in your neighborhood, in your state, in your nation. And even if you don’t want to be the one influencing, which hopefully will convince you to do that because every single one of us has a role in that.

But even if you just want to listen, you just want to learn, you want to start out by finding out what the truth is, how do I know what the truth is with regard to the issues that are happening in our country right now, well, you have come to the right place.

That’s our attitude all the time, to seek truth. Sometimes that means we’re wrong. Sometimes we get data and information that we didn’t have before and it informs our decision. That’s the way we should all be. We should be willing to seek truth. In fact, David Barton has a fantastic presentation on that love of truth, being willing to seek it out, being willing to fight for it when you have it, being willing to defend it, great presentation on defending truth, and being courageous enough to stand up for it.

He’s got a great presentation on that in our Biblical Citizenship in Modern America course. If you haven’t done that course yet, you can get the DVDs at You can take the Monday night class. Well, this will be started another one after the first of the year. So we’ll have a free Monday night class where you can join tens of thousands of other folks all across the country. 

We have the videos, but then we have live discussion. We have David and Tim Barton, myself, Rick Green, Mark Meckler, we have special guests like Michelle Bachman and others that join us on there as well. So I encourage you to take that class. But you definitely need to watch that presentation by David Barton, on seeking truth.

That’s what we’re doing here. I kind of got off on a tangent there. But that’s what we’re doing here at WallBuilders Live, seeking truth, speaking truth spreading that truth across the nation. It’s needed in our culture desperately right now. You can be a partner of ours in that. You can help to lock shields with us and spread the news. You can be a force multiplier by doing a couple things.

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Alright, guys, we got Brad Dacuss with us later in the program. Pacific Justice Institute does a great job of handling cases all over the country, but also just helping to get people informed. And one of the things that he’s been working on, of course, is religious liberty, and the ability for folks to just live out their faith, live out their constitutional freedom of association as well. And it looks like President Biden is reversing some things that President Trump had done to protect that religious liberty.

Biden Rolling Back Religious Trump’s Liberty Protections


Yeah, you know, it’s sad to see President Biden rolling back some of these religious liberty protections that President Trump put in place. It’s not a surprise. One of the crazy things, to me right now, is how many people are surprised by how woke President Biden is or at least his agenda, his policy, the White House is, where it seems like so many people thought he was going to be moderate, and now they’re surprised that he’s not very moderate in his decision-making ruling.

And if you just look at Joe Biden, Joe Biden has never been a moderate. That’s never been always been classified. His history as a senator under President Obama when he was vice president, he’s not been a moderate guy. And it’s almost as if people thought, well, he’s old, so he’s not very dangerous, therefore, we’ll put him in place. 

And what you’re seeing is even though he is elderly, he’s not a safe guy in regards to protecting and defending our Constitution and our constitutional rights, our God-given rights or rights of religious freedom protected in the very beginning of the First Amendment.

So to see him roll back some of these religious liberty protections, it is very sad. And fortunately, it’s not super surprising for those of us who are paying attention.


Yeah, you know, one of the really, I think, Tim, as you said, people get surprised over things,. and they’re surprised over how hostile Biden has become to religion. I mean, he is the first guy in American history that we have record of to issue a call to prayer and not mentioned God in the call to prayer. Call to prayer to who or what? I don’t know, whatever you want to do, just pray for it.


And you’re talking to an official presidential prayer proclamation.


Official, this is part of the federal government record now.


Right, so this isn’t like a call to prayer like at a meal at the White House, hey, we should pray. Okay, let’s eat. We’re talking about an official presidential prayer proclamation.

No Mention of God


On the National Day of Prayer.


When he’s calling on the nation to pray, and he’s like, well, some people like to pray and some people don’t. So if you’d like to pray, you should, and if you don’t, that’s cool. Alright, have a good day like that. That’s kind of the tone of his prayer proclamation. And you’re going this is crazy. But this, again, was a glimpse of the fact that he not, and I’m saying he, we could talk about it being some of his administration, some of those around him, but he’s the guy that helped put those people around him. 

So it is a reflection of him being lived out in his administration. Because obviously, he didn’t write this proclamation, but whoever wrote it, he’s the guy that signed it. He had to be on board with it or he would have said change it, or I want something different. For there to be a president, for Joe Biden to do this, again, for me it’s not really surprising, I kind of saw this coming on some level. But it is kind of shocking to do an official presidential prayer proclamation and not mention God. It does raise the question, who were you praying to?


And this goes back to something that people kind of just shove aside with the elections. If you read the platform under which he ran, the Democrat platform, there has been nothing that has happened in this administration that is surprised based on what they wrote in that platform. And that platform is written by the activists of the party and the activists of the party, the ones who are serving in his administration.

The Platforms

Same with Republican platform, people were surprised that Trump did what he did, read the platform. The people who wrote that platform are the people he put in his administration, they’re the activist in the Republican Party, and they got it done. And the platform had called for the embassy to be moved to Jerusalem, the platform had called for so many things, it didn’t always get done.

But it’s not a shock when people follow the platform written by the party they represent. And so in the case of Biden, anyone who thought that he was going to be friendly toward religious or religious beliefs or convictions had not read the position of that Democrat party. I mean, it was even big news a few years ago when they even took the word God out of the platform, they won’t even have the word ‘God’ in there. They put it back in one sense as an adjective, God-given right, it’s as far as they went.

So it’s not surprised that he’s done what he’s done. But nonetheless, having somebody on like Brad Dacus Pacific Justice Institutes, one of the premier legal groups in the nation to really tell us what this means on a very specific level. Because this is not just something that’s esoteric that’s going to happen in DC and affect none of the rest of us, this will come down right to where we live into the local communities around us. And Brad’s a good guy to be able to put perspective on that.


Brad Dacus from Pacific Justice Institute with us when we return on WallBuilders Live.


This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. As the American war for independence began, the president of Yale was the Reverend Naftali Daggett. When New Haven, the home of Yale came under attack, about 100 citizens rushed out to meet the British, the Reverend Daggett gout by them on horseback, his clerical robes flowing behind him in the wind, and he took up a solitary position atop a hill.

The 2,500 British soon put the townsfolk to flight. But the Reverend Daggett continued to stand alone, firing down on the advancing troops. A British officer confronted him, “What are you doing there, you old fool, if I let you go, will you ever fire again on the troops of His Majesty?” “Nothing more likely” was the preacher’s reply. America’s early pastors personally confronted danger and courageously led their communities.

For more information on Pastor Daggett and other colonial patriots, go to


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Always good to have Brad Dacus with us from Pacific Justice Institute, is the website. Now, Brad, you got to forgive because, like me, he went to the best law school in Texas, the University of Texas School of Law. Brad, good to have you on, man. Thanks for coming on.


Oh, thank you, Rick. It’s always a pleasure. Appreciate it.


Hey, thanks for what you guys do at Pacific Justice. You know you all are reaching a lot of folks with even just education. I know you’re fighting a ton of legal battles on the front lines. But really over the last year and a half, you filled the gaps so well of people just hungry for information. What can I do? What can’t I do? How far can government go?

What do I do to get an exemption on the vaccine? I mean, all those things. I just want to thank you, man, because you all have poured out the information, you’ve made it available for free to people, and just done a fantastic job. So, just a huge thank you for filling the gap last year or so.

Helpful Resources


Well, thank you. We had many, many cases dealing with churches being shut down, had a major victory from the Supreme Court emergency injunction against the state of California, and the governor of California. And now we’re dealing with hundreds of thousands across America, seeking our assistance not to lose their job because of their faith and convictions with regards to the vaccine mandates.

And these are very, very trying times. And we have offices in 16 states from coast to coast representing everyone without charge and we had more of these cases, I think than anyone else in the country.


I love on your website. It’s a homepage right now, it’s very simple. You’re looking for vaccine resources.

You got the button for that ‘exemptions been denied’, click here. If you’re military and trying to get an exemption, click here. So I mean, virtually everybody that’s been dealing with this, there’s something for you at the website. Now, I said PJI, but, go to the same place, right?


That’s correct.


Alright., folks, that’s the website to go to. Brad, let me ask you about the Religious liberty, the exemptions that during the Trump era we had and now the Biden administration, once again, just seems to want to do the opposite of Trump, no matter what even when he did good things that frankly, even people on the left would typically say would be good like freedom. But here we go again, they’re reversing more Trump action on religious liberty.

Mandated to Violate Conscience


Yeah, this is a real shame because what we’re talking about is the administration giving public notice to the Office of Federal Contract Compliance in US Department of Labor. They’re proposing rescinding a federal contractor rule adopted by President Donald Trump in 2020.

And it was really important that what Trump adopted, basically, it was a pro-religious freedom measure to protect contractors who had religious purposes, religious convictions, to be able to do business with the government, provide goods and services, without having to deny their faith or hire people who are in violation of their faith and convictions. And this was real important.

Well, then, as it turns out, we have here the Biden administration reversing that, making it very difficult for a lot of Christian and faith-based businesses to be able to continue staying in business or doing business with the federal government in particular.


Brad, I just I’m always flabbergasted by the idea that the government’s going to make you violate your conscience to do a good thing, right. To serve and to help, and to be a blessing to the community, you had to violate your conscience, you had to go against the very things you believe in. It’s not enough for them to say, hey, we want to make sure everybody can believe like they want and we’re going to protect these people that believe in things that traditionally we’re not even allowed in this culture, we’re going to protect them and let them have freedom.

That’s not enough. They have to literally make you participate in the things that violate your conscience. What is at the heart of that? Why is there this continual push to force Christians to violate their conscience in America?


Well, the agenda and the modus operandi of the radical left, the LGBTQ movement, is to force everyone to bow the knee to their movement, and to agree with their beliefs, and force everyone to agree with their beliefs. And if not, they want everyone silenced, or destroyed, in this case, from a business perspective. And it’s very disturbing because there’s so many businesses out there of providing great services that really they can do better than anyone else. 

Reducing the Influence of Faith-Based Organizations

Like, for example, here’s a classic. There’s some business entities that have Christian-based prison services, and then enable them to provide a kind of a Christian business, a prison or faith-based prison, that really is statistically the most effective at getting convicted criminals to change their ways and to not have recidivism later on.

We’re talking about these kinds of wonderful entities doing what the federal government can’t do. That’s just one example of many which is geared towards reducing the impact and the influence of faith in the workplace and in society.


Where do we go from here on this particular rule? I mean, is this all done non-legislatively? This is all just executive orders and administrative rulings?


Yes, it’s the executive order undoing President Trump’s executive order. Now they’ve given a notice. So they have to get a public notice, and they have done that and published in the Federal Register on Tuesday.

This was done. And then there’s a time period for review. And then it’s officiated adopted. The only thing that could change this would be probably changing the person sitting in the White House. And that may not be for another three years.


So it’s even more important than to have organizations like you there to defend these entities. Are you recommending to them just don’t get into the business of doing contracts with the government or helping in those areas at this point, or are there ways around it?

Government Is Going to Pay a Price


Well, I wish there were easy ways around it. But the government can pretty much put in whatever kind of discrimination laws they want and require contractors to comply as a general rule. So it’s very problematic… I think businesses and contractors are just going to have to assess the risk element of doing business with the government.

And the risk of them losing the contract or being sued for discrimination if discrimination is alleged because of their faith or their morals and their high standards of ethics. It’s a shame, but that’s what we’re looking at.

And we’re looking at development services. We’re looking at research and even technical assistance for federal departments, and other services. So we’re looking at a lot of areas where the government is going to pay a price for this, not having the best and most optimal, providing what they need simply because the federal government, the Biden administration wants to force businesses owned by people of faith with religious convictions to bow the need of their radical leftist agenda. And it’s not what a free country is about.

It’s not what the United States was intended to be about. And yet, that’s what we’re talking about. At the end of the day, businesses in this situation should contact Pacific Justice Institute so we can give them specific counsel based on what they’re exactly doing and providing.

Rick: is the website to do that. And Brad, just a quick point of clarification, and this is only if it’s a federal contract, right? So if you’re doing business with a state government or local government, does this affect you in that way?


No, it doesn’t. And that’s a real good point. And also, you’re talking about ways around it.

Federal Vs. State

There’s some business entities that may wish to spin off a separate incorporated business, if you will, specifically doing business under the terms of the federal government without infecting or impacting the rest of the business practices. But we can work with businesses to work through those. But is very disturbing, this executive order that is now in the process of being administered.

It applies to any contractor doing more than $10,000 in government business in a year is going to be bound by this. And that’s a lot of businesses that are going to be impacted. And some see this is a purging of businesses of faith, punishing them. It’s very disturbing that in the United States, we see this in any capacity, it’s a terrible shame and a travesty.


Yeah, and Brad, you go back to a lot of programs that get passed through legislation that then these agencies are given to implement. And a lot of times, I know members of Congress, and certainly at the state level, I know for sure, at the state level, but also at the at the federal level, people vote for a program to be created because it provides for a private entity that they know would do a better job. You mentioned even prisons, and a lot of support was given to private contracting with the prison system because of the faith-based programs that could provide that spiritual element that the government absolutely could not.

And where I’m going with all that, as I’m talking in a circle here is that a lot of the elected officials voted for a new program funded with tax dollars, believing that it was going to be these private entities fulfilling the need with a faith-based perspective, and now that’s being stripped away. And the members of Congress or the members of the state legislatures have no say at that point. It’s administrative, literally the stroke of the pen, here by the President.

So it’s really unfortunate. And of course, like you said, government loses, the people that are being served by these programs lose. I mean, everybody loses except the leftist organizations that will replace these contractors, and be doing it strictly for the money and bad for everybody. Brad, God bless you, brother. Sorry, I had to preach there for a minute. But really appreciate you coming on, man. Pacific Justice, thanks for doing all the good work that you do. to get help out there, folks. Appreciate you, Brad Dacus.


Thank you, Rick. It’s always a pleasure. Thank you.


Stay with us, folks, we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.


Hi, this is David Barton. I want to let you know about a brand new book we have out called “This Precarious Moment: Six Urgent Steps that Will Save You, Your Family, and Our Country”. Jim Garlow and I have co-authored this book. And we take six issues that are hot in the culture right now, issues that we’re dealing with, issues such as immigration, and race relations, and our relationship with Israel and the rising generation millennials and the absence of the church and the culture wars, and where American heritage is our godly heritage.

We look at all six of those issues right now that are under attack and we give you both biblical and historical perspective on those issues that provide solutions on what each of us can do right now to make a difference. These are all problems that are solvable if we’ll get involved. So you can grab the book, “This Precarious Moment” and find out what you can do to make a difference. “This Precarious Moment” is available at


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Brad Dacus from Pacific Justice Institute for joining us as well. And guys, I mean, Tim explained it at the beginning. I mean, there’s just such a difference in philosophy here. And Biden is representing that philosophy that is, frankly, anti-religious, anti-faith, and certainly anti-Christian. And these are the results of allowing someone like that to be in the White House and be president of the United States.

The Consequences of a Man Like This in the White House

And so at this point, the things we can do during this three and a half years or three years that remain are working on these things at the state level, working on ways for these contractors. As he said, you know, there’s certain things that they can do. But these are the consequences of having a man like this in the White House.


Well, it’s also what we see repeatedly from him is facts don’t matter. Here’s my agenda. Here’s what we’re going to do. If facts mattered, as Brad pointed out, look at what happens to faith-based programs. If you can reduce recidivism, and recidivism, by the way, is merely the measurement of how frequently a prisoner will return to prison.

In other words, if you commit a violent crime or some crime and you’re released in prison, right now recidivism says that 65% of those who have been released from prison will commit a crime within the next three years that put them back in prison. So it’s a cycle, a cycle, a cycle of the same people committing crimes, two-thirds of them go back in.

But with faith-based programs, what you find is only 8% goes back in, not 65%, only 8%. That’s an 85% reduction in repeat criminal offenders. So faith-based programs, they serve the whole nation, they reduce the recidivism of crime by 85%, which means a whole lot less victims, a whole lot less property crime, which means a whole lot less money needs to be spent on prisons, and beds and wardens, and etc. But Biden says I don’t care what works and what doesn’t. I don’t think religion has any place in serving the people so we’re taking that out.

And you get the same thing with drug programs. And a state-run drug program, the cure rate is less than 20%. In a faith-based drug-run program, drug rehab program, like Teen Challenge, it’s over 90% cure rate. And 1/4 of all property crimes are committed by drug addicts who steal something to get something to help their fix. And so if you can get rid of the drug crimes, you’re going to have property crimes go down massively. And he says I don’t care what works and what doesn’t, here’s what I believe.

And so what he’s done is he’s taken a position and says, look, if you’re a person of faith, we don’t care how good you are at what you do. But if you have sincere religious beliefs, we’re going to take you out of being able to work with the federal government. It’s fine for Antifa and Black Lives Matter and all these other at radical, harmful groups to work with us. But we don’t want people like you working with us that have sincere religious beliefs at God what they do. What a position to take!

Perilous Times


Well, this is also why we’ve talked so often on the program about the reason it matters for people to get involved, the reason you get involved in elections. And certainly, in state level, Rick, you already mentioned where we can do things in the state and state legislatures to help protect and really defend a lot of these organizations or businesses.

But also, this is where as Christians, we have to recognize that as we are living in perilous, maybe precarious times, so to speak, on some level, there are moments in biblical history where you had the stories of Daniel, or Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. If you look at Hebrews 11, the faith hall of fame, so many of those people butted up against governing leaders, and they went the opposite direction, where they told their governing leader, yeah, we’re not doing what you want us to do.

Genuinely, look at Hebrews 11, and how many of them were going against, were Moses, he’s going against Pharaoh to lead the Israelites out of Egypt and Samson opposing the Philistines or Rahab lying to the people there at Jericho. You can go down the list of Scripture and one of the things that is very clear from Scripture is there were times when for biblical reasons they said we will not comply.

Now, I have explained it several times to my friends, I think we need to be very careful that we don’t get a rebellious attitude and say, you know what, I don’t like what they’re doing, so I’m going to say no, no matter what. We generally need to understand, Romans 13 talks about we need to respect governing authority, that we submit to governing authority.

But also Romans 13 points out that governing authority is supposed to be God’s representatives. And when they cease to be righteous in judgment on some level, in the sense of they’re asking us to be ungodly, that’s what more specifically I’m referring to, if they’re asking you to do something that violates what God has called you to do or who God’s called you to be or violates what biblical standards are, then the godliest thing you can do at that time is say no and stand up against it.

And so I do think it this might be different for different people, you know, it’s interesting that for Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, they were not the only Jewish people there at the time when Daniel prayed in front of his window and got thrown to the lions, he wasn’t the only person there, but he was the only person we read about praying. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, they were not the only Jewish people there at this massive golden statue in the fiery furnace, but they’re the only ones standing up.

Biden Pushes Back Religious Liberty Policies – With Brad Dacus

I think it could be different for different people as to when they feel convicted to stand up. But I do think the time is coming when we’re going to have to figure out what is that line in the sand for us, where if the government says, hey, we’re going to force you to do this or lose your job.

Or, we’re going to tell you this or whatever the consequences are, we’re going to have to be very good diligent students of the Word of God to make sure that we’re not doing something to reject all governing authority, but have a line in the sand that says, you know what, here’s what I know I believe from Scripture, here’s what the Constitution says. And anything beyond that, I’m going to stand up and say I will not comply.


Well, special thanks to Brad Dacus for joining us today on WallBuilders Live. Be sure and check out Pacific Justice, a lot of great information there and you ought to watch his regular webinars as well: always a wealth of information. We sure appreciate you being with us here at WallBuilders Live today. And again, go to the website today, make that contribution, get signed up for some of our free classes, become a part of the solution.

Become a force multiplier. Don’t just find truth. Share that truth. Fight for that truth. Spread it out there in the culture in the society. Be a salt and light warrior. That’s what we need more of in the country today. Thanks so much for listening today to WallBuilders Live.