Build The Wall? Will It Actually Make A Difference For America? To build the wall or to not build the wall, that is the question. This is a very hot topic right now and there are a lot of emotions all around the country on whether or not we should build the wall. However, today, we are going to take a look purely at stats and we’ll also have an expert on with us to talk about the times in history when walls were used to determine if building a wall is the right way to go for America.
Air Date: 07/09/2018
Guest: Omer Eschel
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Faith And The Culture
Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. Always from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.
We’re here with David Barton, he’s America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Tim Barton’s with us. He’s a national speaker and pastor, and president of WallBuilders. He’s calling in from High Point Leadership Camp in Hot Springs, Arkansas. So, we’re glad he’s able to take time out of his important work in training the next generation of leaders, but glad he can be with us here on the phone today.
Guys, we’re going to dive into an interesting program today that is a hot topic that, of course, we do want to take a historical, and biblical, and constitutional, perspective on it. But it’s both the Middle East and the question of whether or not a fence or a wall actually makes a difference. We’ll have an expert with us later in the program to chime in on that as well. But folks, if you want to learn more about our program go to WallBuilders.com and WallBuildersLive.com.
David, Tim, we talk about the wall here in the United States, people say it wouldn’t work. But the Middle East, I would argue, is an even tougher situation. And yet, Israel has gotten great results from their fence and wall.
Well, now wait a minute. That’s a racist fence and wall they’ve got. I see that every year, Israeli apartheid week, it’s all over campuses, college campuses. They had 1600 events last week pointing out how that that wall is atrocious, that it needs to come down, that it represents what South Africa represents. And because all that nonsense is out there and because so many people hear that that’s one of the reasons we said, “Well, why don’t we ask people who live there and deal with it and see what they say?”
Because there’s got to be stats to this thing. There’s got to be a way of knowing. And I guess stats wouldn’t wouldn’t justify racism if that’s what it was. But there’s got to be stats to know whether this thing works or not. And so in looking at that because this is an issue, because it’s recently been in the news again, it’s been in not only international news with some stuff in Israel, it’s also been an American news because of all these college campuses having these speakers coming in on Israeli Apartheid Week, is what they call it to condemn Israel on college campuses.
From a Lot of Different Viewpoints
So, we thought a guy who lives there is a good friend of ours. Matter of fact, we actually go to Israel on a somewhat regular basis and we do tours over there with this guy. He used to be one of their elite military guys, Special Forces guy, elite forces. He’s been a diplomat, he’s been in America like Chicago and elsewhere as a diplomat from Israel to America, he’s also an archaeologist. Unbelievable the stuff that he has done in archaeology and the digs in Israel. He’s actually run the national park there Qumran with the Dead Sea Scrolls were, he ran that national park.
So, he’s really got this thing from a lot of different viewpoints. He understands the American perspective, he understands the Israeli perspective, the military perspective, the archaeological historical perspective. And Hebrew, by the way, is his first language. So, he’s really good at English, but English is his second language. But we thought if we asked Omer Eschel he could help us understand a little bit more about this issue that’s been in the news recently.
And you guys know him personally, right? You go on these tours with him and have a chance to see him there on the ground in the Holy Land.
Yeah. In fact, guys, we have a trip coming up I think 2019. We’re supposed to have another trip with him over there. And of course, anytime people you talk about going to Israel people are concerned, “Wait a second, isn’t there a lot of violence. Isn’t there are a lot of unrest? Isn’t it a dangerous place to be?” But the times I’ve been in Israel, it felt really safe.
And certainly there’s probably very dangerous parts that are in Israel, I would imagine. It’s probably like any nation – there are safe parts and dangerous parts probably, I would think. But I’ve never felt unsafe over there, but probably that’s something the Omer can speak to with much greater clarity as someone who lives over there, really has a much better firsthand look than we do as just traveling. But as a visitor, I have never felt unsafe. And we do have another one of those trips coming up, which, I guess, we could talk about later in the show if you want to.
What do Omer Eschel is our special guest. Stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.
This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Many today wrongly claim that our Founding Fathers were largely atheists, agnostics, and deist.
Certainly some Founders were less religious than others, but even they were not irreligious. Consider Benjamin Franklin, definitely one of the least religious among them, yet, when the delegates at the Constitutional Convention hit an impasse in their deliberations it was Franklin who called them to prayer, invoking numerous scriptures to make his point.
As he reminded them, “God governs in the affairs of men. If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured in the sacred writings that, except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this.”
So, even the least religious of America’s Founders urged public prayer in dependence on God. For more information about the faith of the Founding Fathers go to WallBuilders.com.
Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. Omer Eshel is with us. He’s CEO and co-founder of the Bible Comes To life. Omer, thanks for coming on today, sir.
Thank you so much for having me.
Is the Fence A Good Thing?
Hey, man, you have seen a lot over the last few years there in Israel and certainly seen the change in terms of the number of attacks that have been able to get through since the fence has been put up. But, man, people over here in America, a lot of folks say it didn’t make a difference, it just caused problems. And David said, man, let’s get Omer on. He can speak to this and give us some good data on it. So, thanks for doing the show and giving us a chance to learn a little bit here.
Oh– it’s funny that you say– first of all, it’s my pleasure. And the fence, *, the * valley where I live is less than a mile away from the fence. So, we are personally affected by that fence.
You’re right there. Okay, so you’ve seen the difference then. Has it been a good thing?
Oh my ***, absolutely. We can look at just, you know, I’m not talking about numbers of the government and and our * Bureau, I’m just talking about regular day life. Before the fence, our neighbors from the West Bank used to go in the middle of the night and steal agricultural products. I’m talking when I say “products” I’m not just talking about fruits and vegetables – they used to steal full flocks of sheep and moving them into the West Bank. And then it’s our responsibility to go and chase them into the West bank to get them back. Now, ever since the fence we are 90 percent down in agriculture theft.
Wow. So, you’re seeing practical on the ground benefit. Like you said, not just government stats, you’re seeing it firsthand, eyes on. This is your daily life right there.
One of the favorite things that I do with my daughters is to go out camping. I can tell you before the fence, if I would have gone camping, which I did, I was armed. But now, not a problem.
What About the National Implications?
Wow. So, what’s the national implications in terms of preventing terror attacks?
Well, this is something that I will give statistics from the government. And in 2002, we had the peak of homicide bombing in Israel. Which, I think, was one hundred forty eight per year. Almost every other day we had a bomb in any central location in Israel. Ever since the fence, the fence was basically completed– it started in 2002, but it was completed around 2008. And if you look at the statistics – just google statistics of terror attacks in Israel – you’ll see this peak in 2002 and it is a huge shear decline up to maybe 30, even less, which most of them are actually in the West Bank, not in Israel. Because they cannot go through.
So you– and back up to the first stats you said. So every other day – that’s hard for us in America to get our heads around. One want attack in 10 years is a huge deal here. You’re talking every other day there was some sort of bombing or attack.
But you know something? Yes, but I’ve got to put some, what’s the word, yes, a little bit of an * and I’m going to give you an example. Yes, in 2002, the maximum, the worst you ever had was every other day we had a bombing. But I’ve got to share this with our listeners. I was a * of tourism in Chicago, buddy, there were a lot more gun downs in Chicago than there are in Israel even in the worst year.
No kidding. No kidding. Just in Chicago?
Just in Chicago. So, the big difference is in Chicago it’s crime. Here, it’s nationalistic and here it’s easier for us to identify who the enemy is.
Who Would Oppose This?
Yeah, yeah. Makes sense, makes sense. Okay, so when when the fence went in then dramatically dropped the numbers. Why do people oppose it then? I mean, the results have been so obvious and so positive. Who would oppose this?
Actually, it’s a funny thing. Let’s look at this in two different ways. In 2002, there were two main parties that were opposed to the fence. Funny enough, the extreme right and the extreme left. Now, the extreme left we understand. The extreme left said, “Oh, you guys are fencing down those * and this is just wrong.” Now, 90 percent of the population said, “Well, every country in the world is fenced in, it’s called the border. Every single one.”
On that, the extreme right came and said, “By the fact that you guys put in a fence you actually put in a border. So, the Palestinians, aren’t they going to come and say, ‘OK you guys already set the border. This is Palestinian land. This is Israeli land.’” So, these were the two main parties, or main objectives, against the fence.
Today it’s a common known that 99 percent of Israelis are very happy with the fence. And the fact of the matter is that I remember in 2002, 2003, 2004, we were, at best, left right and center by the Europeans, some of the European countries, about this security fence. They used to call it the apartheid wall and everything. These same countries are now begging for our assistance because of their waves of refugees from the Middle East and from Africa.
Wow. So, they’re saying, “How did you make it work? We need your help now.” When they were actually against you in the past.
That’s exactly it. That’s exactly– because the fence really proved itself. The reason why we use the word “fence”. If you google, if you’re going to check, it’s going to be called the security wall. Folks, the fact of the matter is that less than 3 percent of the fence is an actual wall. 97 percent of it is just wire, but it’s a * wire meaning it’s not just the wire itself. If you touch it there’s a lot of sensors and everything that can detect if it’s a human being, or if it’s a wild boar, or if it’s a fox. And they’ll know if to dispatch the forces or not.
Wow. Impressive. Alright, Omer, before I let you go, you have been right in the middle of promoting Israel, and the Ministry of Tourism, and the tours, and you got to take David and Tim on trips there. They’ve actually got some coming up I think, one in February. Now, tell us about actually visiting Israel. I know a lot of people have maybe thought about going. Sometimes there’s a fear of danger or whatever. But everybody I’ve talked to that has been it has been a life changing experience. What would you say to our listeners out there that are considering going and visiting Israel?
Well, I better start with the security issue. As I said before, yes, in our worst year we had less casualties than what Chicago has in less than a half a year. So, in terms of statistics, Israel is a lot safer than I would say most countries in the world. Again, we know how to deal with the threat. Which, I cannot say for a lot of countries around the world. Now–
It’s actually safer to come visit the holy land than it is to go to a Chicago Cubs game, basically.
Hands down. I know that from first hand. Absolutely. Now, in terms of what does it do to you, this is something really important. A journey to Israel is a journey to your own soul. It’s not, you’re not there to visit the beautiful beaches and the wonderful snow peak mountains which we don’t have, we have one. You come here because this is the land of God. And when you’re here, you understand why God chose these people.
You’ll be able to see what Jesus saw. You’ll be able to stand at a place where Jeremiah was thrown down to the pit and called from the deep * , my Lord. You will be in the * Valley and see exactly the place that David slew Goliath. And the thing is, and I think that’s the most important. When you come to Israel you’ll never be the same. And that’s the name of our ministry – the Bible truly comes to life. You’ll never read the Bible the same way.
Seeing Where it Actually Happened
Wow. Wow. So, it really every verse then has an image to it. You can actually see where you had stood where that thing actually happened.
You know what, I’m just going to give this as a final note. Today I was stuck in traffic on the way to work. I was sititng, I took my youngest kid to summer camp. And as we were going on the road I’m looking around, I said– my daughter’s name is *– I said to her, “* we are now stuck in traffic at the same place where the Ark of the Covenant made it’s way after the battle *. This is the place.
Wow. Oh, man. Every day would be a lesson. That’d be phenomenal, phenomenal. Man, we hope to have a lot of people come and see and experience. And just appreciate your time, thanks for coming on. Thanks for sharing the stats, thanks for the tours, thanks for all that you’re doing. And let’s get you back again soon. This was fun.
Absolutely. And for our listeners, I’m going to guide this trip myself together with David, so I’ll be excited to see you.
Alright, going to be good, man. Going to be great. Omer, thank you. God bless you. Have a great day.
God bless. Thank you so much.
Stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.
We Want To Hear Your Vet Story
Hey friends! If you have been listening to WallBuilders Live for very long at all, you know how much we respect our veterans and how appreciative we are of the sacrifice they make to make our freedoms possible. One of the ways that we love to honor those veterans is to tell their stories here on WallBuilders Live. Once in awhile, we get an opportunity to interview veterans that have served on those front lines that have made incredible sacrifices have amazing stories that we want to share with the American people.
One of the very special things we get to do is interview World War II veterans. You’ve heard those interviews here on WallBuilders Live, from folks that were in the Band of Brothers, to folks like Edgar Harrell that survived the Indianapolis to so many other great stories you heard on WallBuilders Live.
You have friends and family that also served. If you have World War II veterans in your family that you would like to have their story shared here on WallBuilders Live, please e-mail us at [email protected] Give us a brief summary of the story and we’ll set up an interview. Thanks so much for sharing here on WallBuilders Live!
Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us and thanks to our special guest, Omer Eschel, for being with us. And David, Tim, he not only threw out stats, I was more impressed not only by the stats, but the firsthand I live a mile from the fence and I’ve seen this, I’ve been around them my whole life. That’s more convincing to me than anything else.
And by the way, for those that didn’t know he was talking about the West Bank and that is the Palestinian occupied area. And it’s out of those Palestinian occupied areas that they have had so much violence, so much car bombing. I’ve been there in previous years and there are so many cars that are stolen and they end up in Palestinian chop shops. That’s how they fund a lot of their efforts over there. And since the fence has gone up the car thefts have dropped over 90 percent, just like the agricultural thefts have dropped. It has been such a much less violent area.
It Has Nothing to do With Race
And so much of the violence has been created by Palestinians. He pointed out the guys on the right really didn’t like the fence because that’s like saying, “Hey, here’s a border.” No, the Palestinians live in Israel. They call it occupied territory. It is in Israel. It is what was given to Israel by the U.N., is was part of it. So, and in 1973, the war there, this is part of Israel.
So, that’s why the guys on the right didn’t like the fence there. It’s like saying you’re given given recognition, you’re given legitimacy, to the Palestinians who are occupying Israeli land. But nonetheless, the fence has worked and call it apartheid or whatever you want, but that’s not an accurate description. It has nothing to do with the race of these guys. It has everything to do with the violence of these guys.
And there are many Palestinians, particularly those that are Israeli citizens, that regularly vote that they would prefer Israeli leadership to Palestinian leadership. Because so much of the money that has come in from the international community to the Palestinians ends up in the hands of their leaders. It does not– I mean, the Palestinian community is much poorer overall that Israel is. And that’s because the Palestinian controlled areas, they don’t let that money get now where it needs to. So, Omer sees it and what a huge difference it makes in the safety and security of Israel.
Yeah, numbers don’t lie. When you have that big of a drop – we’re not talking like a small percentage change – 90 percent gone. That’s a change that the people that live there feel every day. That’s the type of thing we’re talking about with the American security as well and the border being secured is seeing that significant of a change. Certainly for those little on the border, but frankly, for the whole country.
Well, when you go from having a bombing every other day to having a bombing now every other week, and those bombings are mostly occurring in Palestinian held areas, what a change that is. And as Omer pointed out, you’re a lot safer in Israel than you are in Chicago where he served as a diplomat and he’s exactly right. Tim mentioned earlier we go there on a regular basis and we feel safer there than we do in many cities in America. Our own ranch, we feel really safe there. But there are so many cities that have a much higher violence and crime rate than Israel does as an entire nation. So, it really is a safe place to be.
Well, speaking of going there, let’s take a quick break, guys. When we come back let’s talk about why people should go to Israel and what y’alls experience has been. And tell them how they can be a part of going next spring with you guys. Stay with us, folks. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.
Hi, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders and I want to encourage all the pastors out there with a unique opportunity that we’re presenting it WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation. Not just seeing the sights but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent.
We get to go to the Capitol at night. And we get to see the spiritual heritage of our Founding Fathers, of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties and freedom, and what’s going on in Washington, D.C.
If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website at www.WallBuilders.com. And there’s a link that’s for scheduling. If you click on that link there’s a section for pastor’s briefing. There’s more information about the dates, when it’s going, and how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of.
We’re back on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Back with David and Tim Barton. And Tim, you’ve been over there yourself, right. You’ve been there with your dad, and on tours, and seen, and been there with Omer. What are your thoughts on how Americans should view that and whether they should actually literally go view that, actually go visit?
Sometimes We Have Misunderstandings…
Well, yeah, I think we’ve said many times in the show it is really the place that every every Christian ought to try to make a journey to at some point. Where you can go and see the birthplace of Christianity, of that faith. It is really remarkable and it really is safe. Even as Omer was talking about the wall, we talked about the the wall in the last segment, sometimes we have misunderstandings about this. Israel did not just arbitrarily start building a wall and saying, “We’re going to block off certain people because we don’t like certain people.”
No, it was after they had increased terrorist activity. And they they asked the logical question of, “Where are these terrorists coming from?” And they pinpointed the actual cities they were coming from and said, “You know what would be safe is if we actually built some walls and then have security checkpoints to make sure that the people coming and going from those cities aren’t transporting massive bombs in their vehicle. That might be a good and safe thing to do.” And so the wall was for security – not just arbitrarily put there to try to hinder a certain people group, as was already mentioned.
There’s Palestinians that live all over Israel, there’s Palestinians in government, there’s Palestinians in the military. This is not something where they are literally targeting a people group and saying, “We’re trying to lock up this people group.” No, they found with a terrorist activity was coming from and said, “Let’s stop the terrorist activity.” So, first of all, there’s more understanding that needs to take place when it comes to the wall. But for people that get to go to Israel, depending on where the tour group they go with will actually venture, they might get to see this.
I think probably on the tour that we’re going to take this coming year we will go places where you will drive by and you will see part of this wall, and you’ll see places where terrorists have come from. And behind the wall back over on that side. But the whole time we’re over there we definitely felt incredibly safe going places where the Bible actually, events from the Bible actually took place in this specific spot.
Bringing the Bible to Life
So, it really is, as Omer mentioned, the Bible really does come to life on this journey. And I definitely read my bible differently now in the sense of as I’m reading something I now have the actual picture of where that location was, of what that might actually look like with the kind of the terrain as opposed to what my imagination always put there.
And I think we’ve probably mentioned before how often we imagine something and then got of there and saw how it actually was and realized, “Wow, this looks nothing like what my imagination had always envisioned this to be.”
But certainly going to Israel is a trip that every Christian ought to strive to find an opportunity to go on in Israel trip. And certainly, the one we have coming up that is the beginning of next year is one that we would love for listeners to come and join us and be a part of this trip where the Bible actually comes to life.
Now, Tim, is that a– can anybody go on the trip? How do people get on the trip?
Sure. Well, we can put a link on on our website today where people can go and get more information about that. But it is a trip where we’re going and we’re taking– I don’t know if it’s 70, or 80, or 90, people, whatever it is. It really is– we’re sending out an e-mail blast to people that are our WallBuilders supporters and so at this point, yeah, if there’s somebody who’s listening and they want to join the WallBuilders trip, well, they can get on WallBuildersLive.com and click on that link and it will take them to more information about this Israel trip we’re going on.
But certainly for Christians who want to learn more about Israel, and want to experience the Holy Land, want to see the places where Jesus was, see where so much of the Bible took place. This would be an incredible trip to go.
Yeah, it starts on January 28 and it’s a day over and a day back, but we have nine days on the ground there. And while we’re on the ground there you’ll see just more Bible stuff than you can imagine. It’s unbelievable. Plus, we always include some of the military stuff and some of the political stuff, so you have a sense not only of ancient Israel and the Bible, but also what’s going on there today. And that really kind of makes our trips fairly unique. There’s not many that have that kind of perspective. And that is what we add in.
But as Tim said, you can go to the link on WallBuilders Live today and you can get that link. It’ll give you more information – pricing, dates, departure, etc.
Build The Wall? Will It Actually Make A Difference For America?
A trip you’ll never forget. And it’s definitely would be incredibly cool to get to go with the Barton’s, so makes you check out that link today at WallBuildersLive.com. Thanks to Omer Eschel for joining us today and giving us that firsthand account as well as the data to back it up. We hope you’ve enjoyed today’s program.
You can help spread this program by taking the links at WallBuildersLive.com, sharing them through your social media apps. And also by going to WallBuilders.com and becoming a partner with the program through a financial contribution. We are a listener supported program and so that helps us to spread the word and get the word to more people across the country.
We sure appreciate you listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.