Christian Heritage Yet Ungodly Policies, Foundations of Freedom Thursday

Christian Heritage Yet Ungodly Policies: It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday, a special day of the week where we get to answer questions from you, the listeners! Today’s question is, “If we have an incredible Christian heritage and if there are still so many congressmen that have those moral beliefs, why do we continue to see ungodly votes and policy?” Tune in now to find out! 

Air Date: 04/12/2018

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture


Samuel Adams said, “The liberties of our Country and the freedom of our civil Constitution are worth defending against hazards. And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we talk about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. All of it from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

We do that on Thursdays with you driving the conversation. You can send in your questions to [email protected], that’s [email protected]. You might have questions about the founding fathers, about how to apply certain biblical principles to some of the public policy issues of the day, or maybe you want to know what the founders thought of some of these issues. Send those questions in – [email protected]. We’ll get to as many of them as we can today.

Here with us is David Barton, he’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Also Tim Barton with us, he’s a national speaker and pastor, and he’s the president of WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator.

Visit for more about the radio program. And then, that’s our main website and there is a ton of information there. A wealth of information – all kinds of books, and DVDs, and articles, things you can download, things you can purchase for your Sunday school class, or your homeschool curriculum. Or just to get your family educated, and inspired, and equipped, to be better citizens and then share it with your friends and your neighbors.

David, Tim, we’ve got a lot of questions coming up today. Let’s see how many we can get to. You guys ready for the first one?


You bet! Fire away!

D.C. Pastor Tours


Alright, John Jordan sends it in. He said, “I’ve been listening to your podcast on March 13th about Pastor DC tours and it inspired both hope and discouragement.” Now, guys before we get to why he was encouraged and discouraged by that discussion let’s remind our listeners what we were talking about in terms of these DC tours we do for pastors. You guys been doing this–David, when was the first time you did this? I’ve never asked you that before.


Oh, gracious, I think it was 1995. It revolved around Congressman Steve Largent. I was with him at the time, Hall of Famer with the Seattle Seahawks, but he was a congressman from Tulsa. And he took me and Speaker Newt Gingrich’s era and we looked around through it and he gave me a tour through that area and pointed out a lot of historical things. As we were on that tour looking at things I also pointed out some historical things that he thought were pretty cool.

So, we kind of taught each other some stuff and Steve said, “Man, you ought to do some spiritual heritage tours of the Capitol. Do some things like that.” And I thought, “Well, I’m willing.” And so Steve started it off and soon it was Congressmen who are sponsoring us coming up and doing those. And then it got to where that as freshmen classes of congressmen were elected they would have us come up and and take all the freshman congressmen through the Capitol and introduce them to the Capitol and the spiritual heritage stories there. Then we got to where they wanted us to train the staff people who worked for the congressmen, and then they wanted to train the staff people who gave the tours for the congressmen.

And so it has grown, and grown, and grown, and now we’ve done hundreds, literally, hundreds, and hundreds, of those spiritual heritage tours at the Capitol.

Not Your Typical Tour


And, now, in case people are getting the right picture here – now, when we say “tour” this isn’t your typical the tour guide takes you through and points to a few things, you get on the tram, you drive around outside. This is– we literally take them, the documents from your library, and these original documents, and we take them and explain the things that happened in the very rooms where they happened. Everything from the old Supreme Court chamber to standing in the spot where John Quincy Adams’   seat was there in the in the old house chamber. You’re literally bringing history to life when you do this.

And for pastors, when you do this for a pastor group, a lot of times they’ve never even heard the stories, let alone, actually visited the place where it happened. And they’re usually shocked to find out that 25 percent of those statues in the Capitol are ministers of the Gospel and how many ministers of the gospel are depicted in paintings and all the different things at the capital. So, it’s a pretty– shocking is not the right word– I guess it is in some ways, but surprising and, literally, inspiring to these pastors when they go through this tour.


It is. And these tours are not like the regular Capital tours as you mentioned. In those tours you have about 19000 17-19000 people a day going through the Capitol, and they look at it, and they take tours. We go in at night after the Capitol is closed down and we’re only allowed to go in with congressmen. So, a congressmen will go, and he’ll be with us, and he’ll sponsor the trip. And therefore we get to go into all sorts of rooms that are not open to the public, but the congressman can get into.

And as we’re in those rooms, the congressmen have us tell the stories of what happened in that room, show the documents we own from what happened to that room. As you mentioned with the statues, and the statues, each state’s allowed to put new heroes and statues can come and go.

Most Folks Have No Clue


It goes back to 1863 when Congress passed a law that said every state can display two heroes there. And so I will tell you that North Carolina’s statue is about to change because in North Carolina they had a statue made of Billy Graham. And Billy Graham is now going to be one of North Carolina’s two statues at the Capitol. So, they’re taking one of their other statues out and moving that one. So, the numbers go up and down, but as high as 25 percent of those statues are Christian leaders, ministers of the Gospel, etc.. And most folks have no clue.

Now, Billy Graham folks will recognize and Dr. Martin Luther King they’ll recognize. But when I start pointing to a statue of Jonathan Trumbull, or one of Roger Sherman, or one of John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg. Or if I point to statues of Lou Wallace, or I point to statues of Junipero Serra, or so many others – they have no clue who those are and what they did in our history. And yet they’re among that elite group of 100 who are being honored at the U.S. Capitol by state. So, they are significant leaders, but today we hear nothing about those names.

So, that’s the kind of stuff, Rick, as you pointed out, that we do.




And the members love it. The representative, senators, this is not the stuff they get. That’s why they have come up and do it for them and their staff. Tim and I were recently in D.C. just a couple of weeks ago one of the congressmen now brings groups from his district end of the Capitol and has us do the tour for groups that he brings up.

So, it’s a lot of fun education and its own site. And you actually see the things that you don’t read about much in textbooks, but they’re actually there because you’re seeing them.


Pastors that might be interested in going on this can go to, look under the event tab, and you can get signed up for one of these this year. And even if you want your pastor to go, maybe get the information for him, get it in their hands. You guys put on the tour and everything for them no charge to them, they’ve just got to cover their travel to get there and it’s a phenomenal experience we talked about a couple of weeks ago. But since the question referred to that I want to remind those that are– and frankly, a lot of people listening today that didn’t hear that particular show, so let them know what we’re talking about when we talk about these D.C. tours for pastors at the Capitol.

Got to take a quick break. When we come back we’ll get to John Jordan’s question which had to do with why that conversation inspired hope and discouragement. We’ll be back. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


President Thomas Jefferson said, “I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves. And if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”

Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Many today assert that religion is something private, that has no place in the public square, and that it is incompatible with government.

The Founding Fathers believed exactly the opposite. They held that religion was absolutely necessary in order to maintain our free system of government. For example, John Adams declared, “We have no government armed with power, capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion.”

And signer of the declaration, Benjamin Rush, similarly affirmed, “Without religion there can be no virtue and without virtue there can be no liberty and liberty is the object and life of all Republican governments.” The Founding Fathers understood that limited government required public morality from the people. And that public morality was produced by the Christian religion. For more information about the Founding Fathers views on religion in public life go to


Abraham Lincoln said, “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts. Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Why Is it So Hard to Say No?


Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. We’re back now with David and Tim Barton and it’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday. I started to get into a question in the last segment and got derailed a little bit. Sorry about that, guys, talking about how those pastors briefings work at the Capitol. Again, the website, click on events to find out more.

Let’s get back to the question, I’ll toss it to you guys. David, Tim, John asked this, when he heard all of the Christians that were there in the Capitol depicted, as you were explaining, David, in the prayer rooms, all of those things, his hope was rising. But then he said, “I see what comes out of the legislative sessions and the absolutely ungodly votes, my heart sinks. If there really are that many Christians that believe in the Declaration, and the Constitution, why is it so hard to say, ‘no’ to the ungodly proposals and shut down that bureaucracy and just don’t reopen it until we get godly proposals?”

He goes on to talk about the fact that we need good citizens educated. I think he’s right, but really it’s a great question to me. If we have such an incredible Christian heritage, and if there are still so many congressmen there that have those foundations, why do we continue to see ungodly votes and policy? He, of course, laments the fact that we often say, “Well, it takes time to to change things.” And he’s saying, “Why can’t we do this faster?”

He said, “Thanks a lot. Love all you guys do and I’m directing other people to your site.” So, appreciate it, John, and encourage our listeners to do that as well. Encourage your friends and family to listen and get educated.

So, David, Tim, why do we continue to get ungodly policy if we have such a great Christian foundation and we still have a lot of Christians serving in office?

Why Do We Continue to Get Ungodly Policy With Christians in Office?


I think there’s two pretty key answers to that. One, is process and the second is the people. We’ve talked in previous places, but let me go back, too, and refresh some of the numbers. When you look at the work that George Barna does, who’s one of the key pollsters in America, he focuses especially on the Christian church. You find that about 72 percent of churches in America do not agree with some of the most basic fundamental core tenets of the Bible.

72 percent won’t agree that Jesus lived a sinless life, or that there is absolute moral truth, or that the Bible is accurate in it’s teaching. So, you’re talking 72 percent of the church leaders, pastors, don’t believe that. And then of the 28 percent that do believe that you find that 90 percent are unwilling to talk about the things the Bible talks about if they are seen as controversial in today’s circle. So, whether that be abortion, or marriage, or homosexuality, or immigration, the Bible talks about all those, but of the 28 percent you’ve got 90 percent of those who don’t want to talk about it because it’s in the news. Which puts you down to only 2.8 percent of pastors willing to address the things that the Bible addresses that are also in the news and address those things from a biblical viewpoint.

So, you’re looking at a lot of churchgoing Americans, including who get elected to Congress, who know nothing about what the Bible says on many, many, issues. Well, what you get in Congress is a reflection of who the people are. So, if we look at Congress and get frustrated – and I truly do. I don’t get nearly as frustrated at the House as I do with the Senate. And I don’t get as frustrated with the Senate as I do with the rules of the Senate which is the second element.

Congress is a Reflection of What the Church Looks Like Today


But what we have in Congress is a very accurate reflection of what the church looks like today. I could say the nation, I would say the nation, but it should be the church that influences the nation. We’re supposed to be the salt and light. More than 70 percent of the nation professes Christianity, they say they are Christians. So, I’m still going to put it at the feet of the church even though I could say “nation” and that is accurate. If the church doesn’t start acting like biblical thinking people you’re never going to see Congress start to make godly proposals.

But let me point out that the reason we have abortion in America today and the reason it still goes on is not because of the Supreme Court, although we could argue and say, “Well, the court refuses to uphold pro-life laws.” No, the reason we have abortion in America today is really because of the inactivity and the wrong thinking of the church. So many won’t get involved – whether it’s by voting or doing something else. And for so many others they think wrong about it and their behavior matches that wrong thinking.

You have 76 percent of Protestants who say that they do not want to see abortion ended now. Now, yeah, they want to see restrictions on it, and they don’t want partial birth abortions, and they want various restrictions, and state legislatures are doing that. But 76 percent of Protestants don’t want to see abortion ended. In fact, 200,000 professing born again Christians every year have abortions. So, if born again Christians would stop having abortions and if Protestants would say, “You know what? Prior to 1973 we didn’t have abortions and we went for nearly three and a half centuries that way. And that’s actually what the Bible says we should do is not have abortions and I’m going to stand for what the Bible stands for.” If we had the church do that we would be a whole situation.

So, a lot of what we see in Congress is a reflection of the, really, the poor thinking that’s in the church. So, that’s where I put the first blame.

But the second blame goes to the process that happens in Congress and–


And, David, before you explain that, so what you’re– in essence you’re saying, “Look, we love to blame that distant government, or those politicians, or whatever. And no question there’s some fault there, but at the end of the day we need to be looking at ourselves, look at our church, look at our community. It really always comes back to what are we doing close at home?


Yeah. Let me quote President James A. Garfield from the speech that it sounds like he gave it yesterday. He said, “Now more than ever before the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt, it’s because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption. If that body be intelligent, brave, and pure, it’s because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature.” Now, that’s where we are. What we get in Congress is not worse nor not better than what we have in the nation itself and–


And you had a second major point. I’ve got to take a quick break here, guys. We’ll be right back. We’ll get that second point. Stay with us, folks. You’re listening to WallBuilders live.


Thomas Jefferson said, “The constitutions of most of our states, and of the United States, assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. That they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.”

Constitution Alive

Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution but just felt like, man, the classes are boring or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago or I don’t know where to start? People want to know. But it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the Constitution either.

Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. It’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the Constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the Cradle of Liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders’ library where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it the QuickStart guide to the Constitution because in just a few hours through these videos you will learn the Citizen’s Guide to America’s Constitution.  You’ll learn what you need to do to help save our Constitutional Republic. It’s fun! It’s entertaining! And it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at


Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”


Welcome back thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live Foundations of Freedom Thursday today. And, David, I cut you off right in the middle of your answer. You had two major points in what you would point to as to why we still have a policy that is ungodly in America even with the Christian foundation that we have and a lot of Christians serving in office.

Look In a Mirror


So, the first part is that a lot of the problem we have is a reflection of where the people are. Because the people who elect congressmen and senators who really believe like they do. And so when we don’t like what we say in D.C., well, look in a mirror because that’s kind of what America looks like in that area, and particularly that district.


And I would even acknowledge that a lot of people would say, “Wait a second they don’t look like me, I don’t believe that.” But that would then reflect our lack of diligence in knowing who we’re voting for, in being informed voters. I think one of the biggest problems is not just we’re choosing bad people, it’s we’re so uninformed we don’t even realize we’re choosing bad people. And so certainly it’s a reflection of the culture around us. Because after you’ve been there once or twice your values are very–


Let me jump in on that, Tim, because you’re exactly right. And that reminds me of something – I’ve run so many campaigns, and been a consultant in so many others, we’re politically involved at a high level from presidential stuff all the way down to local races. We always tell candidates to when they run a race make it really simple – get on three issues and stay on those three issues. And that’s generally what every campaign does. You can find three signature issues that they will talk about over, and over, and over, every campaign stop they’ll talk about them.

And what happens as va voter we look at that and say, “Well, here’s the things we’re going to do.” Then we get there and, literally, there are thousands of issues they deal with. And they might be right on the three issues they told us about, but it might be that they’re wrong on the other 997 issues. We say, “Man, that’s not what I sent to D.C..” Well, that’s because we as voters have to get beyond just the major talking points that they use in campaigns.

We As Voters Have to Get More Informed and Engaged

And Tim you were making a great point about that. We as voters have to get more informed and more engaged. And another way we do that is we’re looking at 2018 elections coming up. Now here’s the deal in America – to be a voter you’ve just got to be 18 and above. That’s all the Constitution requires. As part of that we say you need to get registered so we can make sure you don’t vote 15 times and nobody votes for you. You need to have the integrity of one person, one vote.

And at this point we know that 67.1 percent of Americans aren’t registered to vote. So, right off the bat we have one third of Americans who want to do nothing at all, and want to have no voice at all, don’t care at all where the nation goes. Or if they do, they don’t care enough to go vote about it. So, you have one third. Then you take, in an off year election like we’re going to have now, only about 39 percent of registered voters will go vote. So, 39 percent of 67 percent puts you around the 26 percent mark. Which means and this election, this coming November, it’s going to be one out of four Americans that vote in this election. Three out of four will not vote.


Now, I would point out that four out of four people will complain about whatever happens.


That’s right.




So, we care enough to go, “I don’t like it.” But not everybody cares enough to go, “Let me make a difference.” Because then there’s a level of personal responsibility and we slough it off saying, “You know what? No matter what I do it’s not going to change anything. Everybody is corrupt.” And we have this kind of routine that we walk through in our own mind to justify our lack of involvement.

It’s Just Not Accepting Responsibility


But ultimately, it’s just not accepting responsibility to be “we the people” as was written the Constitution, right. It’s we the people who are the ones who run to control this and if we the people don’t aid in controlling these forces, well, then, we can’t be surprised or even frustrated when it doesn’t go right because we didn’t do our part to help make it go right.


And the other part that goes with that is we know from national studies and surveys that right now people spend 67-68 hours a week in social media. I’ll bet most voters don’t spend 67 or 68 seconds researching the views of those they’re going to vote for. And so we’ve got a lot of time we’re willing to spend looking at stuff, but just not the stuff that really directs the nation and where we head.

And so look at the candidates, what they believe, look where they are, what they stand for. Look at the parties. You and I watched a video not long ago from Prager University that a guy went out with a copy of the Democrat platform and the Communist Manifesto and the game was can you tell me whether this is a statement from the communist manifesto or the Democrat Party?

And it was hilarious because people could not tell the difference between them. There were very few that got either one of them right because they both sounded the same. We need to know that. We need to read platforms. There are 17 different groups out there that claim to have political parties – read their platform, see what they stand for, what they believe, take the time to– If you’ve got 60-70, 60 hours a week to put on social media you can take an hour or two to read some platforms, and see where people are, and what they stand for, because that’s a roadmap.

When they get in office their party is going to move in the direction of that platform. Individually, they may say they’re different and that’s fine, that’s how they get elected. But that platform tells you where they’re going. And there’s very few things that happen in Congress that don’t match the platform of the parties that are there.


Alright, guys, quick break. We’ll be right back. Stay with us, folks. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday here on WallBuilders live.


Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”

Pastors Only Briefing Trip


Hi, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders and I want to encourage all the pastors out there with a unique opportunity that we’re presenting it WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation. Not just seeing the sights but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent.

We get to go to the Capitol at night.  And we get to see the spiritual heritage of our Founding Fathers, of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties  and freedom, and what’s going on in Washington, D.C.

If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website at And there’s a link that’s for scheduling.  If you click on that link there’s a section for pastor’s briefing. There’s more information about the dates, when it’s going, and how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of.


Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us here on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Back with David and Tim and we’ve had a great question today. Really why do we continue to have ungodly policy come out of Washington even when we have a lot of Christian people in office. Not only Christian Foundation, not only a lot of Christian people showing up to vote, but we have Christian people in office. Why does the policy continue to be ungodly?

Omnibus Bill


A lot of it goes to the rules by which the bodies operate. Now, you have federal law which applies to both the House and Senate when they choose to allow it to apply. And one of those federal laws says that Congress – House and Senate – have to pass the 12 funding bills for the federal government every session of Congress. There are 12 bills, there’s one for defense, and one for education, and one for all the different cabinet level areas. Did you know that since Obama was elected now nine years ago the Senate has yet to fulfill that federal law to pass the funding measure, those 12 funding measure?

The House did it again this year. The House passed all 12 funding measures. They got a lot of really, really, really, good stuff. But it goes over to the Senate and the Senate it evokes Rule Number 22 regarding cloture, or they threaten a filibuster, or whatever. And they say, “No, we’ll just do an omnibus bill.”

And an omnibus bill is a way of violating federal law. If if I were runnng the Republican Party I would start running national ads about how the Democrats refuse to obey federal law to create a budget. And so what happens with an omnibus bill you take, literally, hundreds of bills, you throw them into one bill, and you have to vote up or down on it. And that’s why you saw 90 Republicans vote against the one point three trillion omnibus bill and a whole lot more wanted to vote for it.

But it also had all the funding for the military. The military has been so underfunded that they said, “Oh my gosh, we got to hold our nose.” If we could just have an up or down vote on the military and on Planned Parenthood because in trying to preserve the military. They ended up voting in millions of dollars for Planned Parenthood – which they didn’t want. That was not a measure that passed through the House.

So, when you have an omnibus bill the process is it throws everything into one huge Christmas tree with ornaments all over it and you vote on whether you like that Christmas tree or not. You can’t take a single ornament off it, you have to buy it the way it looks in the store, you can’t change anything. And that’s the process whereby you get really frustrated.

We send godly people to the House and I would argue in the House of Representatives we have more godly biblical thinking people than we’ve had, probably, in my lifetime. But they’re stuck with the Senate not doing what it’s supposed to by federal law. And so in order to keep anything going, in order to keep the defence guys funded, and keep the nation safe, they end up with these omnibus bills that they hate. Well, my gosh, we need a different Senate. We need something happening different. I’m not going to beat up the House members over that. I’m going to beat up the Senate over that for not following the law.

Christian Heritage Yet Ungodly Policies


And so if you don’t know that process you get really, really, frustrated at what goes on in D.C.. And so citizen involvement knowledge,– as citizens we’ve got to get better in our morals, in our understanding, looking at candidates. But we also need to know something about the process that occurs up there and hold people accountable to the process.


John Jordan we appreicate your question, sending that in today. And, folks, you can send your questions to [email protected] We’ll get to more of those on our next Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Tomorrow we’ll have Good News Friday for you, so don’t miss that. We’re going to have a lot of reports for you that you probably have not heard in the major media, a lot of good news.

Thanks for listening today to WallBuilders Live.


Samuel Adams said, “The liberties of our Country and the freedom of our civil Constitution are worth defending against hazards. And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”

2018-10-03T09:53:59+00:00April 12th, 2018|Godly History & Good News|0 Comments

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