College Students Are Looking For The Truth, Finally They Are Getting It:Â Special guest Kelly Kullberg, the founder of The Veritas Forum, is with us today to talk about how college students all across America are hungry for the truth and are now able to get that factual and Biblical truth through these 200 chapters all across America”s college campuses. Tune in now to learn why these chapters are growing rapidly.
Air Date:Â 10/30/2018
Guest: Kelly Kleberg
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Faith And The Culture
Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. Â This is WallBuilders Live! where we”re talking about today”s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, and all of it from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.
We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton is a national speaker, pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green; I’m a former Texas state legislator, national speaker, and author. Â
Check us out at WallBuildersLive.com and also WallBuilders.com, two different web sites but really serving, in some ways, the same purpose: to get you educated equipped and inspired. WallBuildersLive is the radio site, and then WallBuilders.com is where you can get all kinds of great tools for you, your family, and the people in your community. So, Â check those out there. And then also, while you’re at WallBuilders.com, make a one time donation or become a monthly donor or a partner with us to help us continue to spread this good news and these answers for our culture and our society.
David, Tim, that”s really what we’re addressing today is answers for the culture and the society, and we always see Biblical, historical, constitutional perspective. Let’s do zero in on Biblical perspective; because, we’ve often said that some of the biggest challenges in our culture, and the reason we’re where we are, is not just those non-Biblical people out there, non-Christians or however you want to say it. Â It is people in the Church just not applying the Bible, literally ignoring it, or governing around it, and trying to just make everybody feel good. If we actually follow Biblical principles, the culture reflects that in a positive way. When we don’t follow them, we get the negative impact.
Knowing the Truth and Loving the Truth
Yes, Â you do get that; but, a whole lot of that also goes to knowing the truth and loving the truth. To apply Biblical principles, you really have to be willing to love what’s true; because, a lot of those principles don’t fly very well in the culture today. There’s a lot of opposition to them. I mean, I actually spoke at Harvard University. I spoke at Harvard which was kind of like Wow! How did I end up here? But, I was brought in by a group at Harvard called the Veritas Forum and “Veritas” is the word for “truth.” And so, this is a group interested in truth. So, they bring me in. And Kelly Kuperberg is the the one who started that, and there are now 200 chapters on 200 campuses across America where they speak truth into the college campus. And so, to have any chance of a Biblical worldview at all, you have to be willing to speak the truth. You have to be willing to stand up and say, “No, there is a standard. There is a difference between truth and opinion. There is a difference between truth and fiction, and the Bible helps define what truth is.” So, to have a Biblical worldview, you have to start with loving the truth. We’re told that in Thessalonians that if you don’t love the truth, you can believe bad things, and you”ll pay a consequence for it. Your heart might be good; but, you’ve got to start with truth. And that really is the underlying foundation for any kind of a Biblical worldview. It’s to start with a love for the truth, and that comes from God; for, He is truth
Truth is Not Subjective
The idea of loving the idea of loving truth– Jesus said, “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” He said that in John 8:32. Truth brings freedom. Jesus said in John 14:6 that He is truth. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through him. So, truth is certainly a Biblical concept.
But, it’s even interesting that Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep my commands.” So, it’s not just a love for truth. It is part of this Biblical idea that we’re going to live what is true–is even what is supposed to define us as Christians. Because, there are times that I don’t love doing the right thing, right? So, it’s not that, “Man I love truth, and that’s why I’m doing what Jesus said.” No. Sometimes it’s like, “I hate this jerk;” but, I know I’m supposed to love my enemy, right? I’m supposed to forgive him. I’m supposed to pray and bless him. And so, sometimes it is even the love for Jesus, the love for God, the love for our faith, our fellow man that that leads us to walk in truth even when we don’t necessarily have that feeling that we love truth. It is a deep underlying something in us. We could even argue semantics in Well doesn’t it really mean that you do love the truth if you deny yourself? Right? You take up your cross you follow him, and you do that because you love the truth; but, I think the point is that there is a foundation of truth that as Christians we have to build our life on. And that truth does exist; it is objective truth. It’s not something that’s based on our feelings. It’s not subjective. It’s not relativistic. There is an objective truth that God has revealed both in creation and in his Word that we use as a guiding principle for our life.
Living Out the Truth
It is living out the truth of who God is, of what God has called us to be. Where Jesus said, “If you love me keep my commands,” it’s a living out this truth that even reflects the fact that we are in fact Christians. Â If we profess to be Christians and we don’t live according to truth, the Bible says that we actually are denying him and the truth doesn’t even exist in us.
And this is where, Dad, as you’re mentioning even at Harvard, where there was this idea of truth exists; we love truth, and we need to pursue truth. This is the underlying principle even of Christianity: truth does exist; God exists, and truth exists in God. God is truth. And so, this is more than just the idea of loving truth because we have to love something it’s right. It’s the idea that because God exists, there is truth, and we have to learn to embrace and live in truth. And any time we reject what is true in our life, we do it to our own detriment. So, even if we don’t love the idea of truth, we ought to at least have enough wisdom or common sense or smarts to go, “Well, truth does exist, and even if I don’t always like, it I’m going to do what’s true. I’m going to do what’s right. I’m going embrace this; because, I know that to deny and reject truth is only damaging to me and society.”
I like how you, David, started with the fact that you’ve got to love truth. You’ve got to love it; because then, when it does go against what feels good or what would be more pleasurable or what I want to do, if I love that truth; or, if I’m just even using the common sense you’re describing, Tim, of saying, “Well, if it’s the truth, it’s going to get a better result in the long run anyway. So, I should move that direction.” Then, you’re going to be willing to give up that temporary pleasure or give up that that selfish desire. Or even sometimes, not give into fear of speaking truth because people may not like me, or whatever it might be. But, it begins with that that love of truth.
Truth Represents a Standard
The truth actually represents a standard. You’re raising a standard. Kelly–I mentioned Kelly Kuperberg–did this with college campuses across the country, 200 chapters now, college campuses. But, she’s now doing it within the church. And so, one of the things that she’s created here in recent years, has been the American Association of Evangelicals; because, evangelicals no longer gather around a flag of truth or at least a truthful standard that the Bible raises up. As Tim mentioned, Jesus said, “Do this.” And so, there is so much now, ambiguity, within evangelicalism. Within the evangelical Christians, you can make your own definitions of what’s right and wrong. And so, she really has done a good job of bringing a standard, not only to college campuses, but to the Church as well. And so, Kelly, I”ve known her for a number of years. She does great work, has great websites. It”s great information for those who want and who need and who should use a standard of God’s Word.
Stay with us folks. Be right back on WallBuilders Live!
Join Us In Israel!
Hey guys what are you doing January 28th through February 7th? If you said you don’t know, let me give you an idea. We are going to Israel. Rick Green, my dad, David Barton, Tim Barton, our families are going and we would love for you to go with us. We are going to the Holy Land if you’ve ever been to Israel this is something as a Christian that will make you forever read your bible differently.
To see where Jesus walked, where He lived, where He did miracles, where so much of the Bible took place. If you’ve ever read through the Bible and you’ve given it a mental picture, the mental picture will not do justice of what happens when you’re actually on the ground. If you’ve ever thought about the story of David and Goliath and you”ve envisioned what it looks like, we’re going to go to the actual field where it took place.
There are so many things that you will see that literally makes the Bible come to life. In fact, that’s the name of the tour group we”re going with is The Bible Comes to Life. Go to CMJacksboro.com. You can click on the link, it has an Israel itinerary, all kinds of details. Hope to see you on this trip this coming year.
Meet Kelly Kullberg
Welcome back; thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live! Our guest today is Kelly Monroe Kullberg. She’s actually the founder of the Veritas Forum. She’s the author of Finding God Beyond Harvard and now the new American Association of Evangelicals. Kelly, thanks for coming on.
Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Rick.
I”m so glad to see what you’re doing. I had a chance to go to your Â website today. The videos are fantastic; the information is fantastic. Let’s talk about why you’ve formed this and why people are joining so quickly. I notice you’re growing rapidly. There’s a lot of media coverage of what seems to me to be a handful of “evangelicals,” people that have taken on that label, but yet are espousing very non-Biblical views. But, the media loves that; because, it’s able to relabel evangelicalism as being liberal. How much was that a kind of catalyst to what you’re doing? And, how are you trying to counter that?
Sure. Yes, it was a catalyst, and we noticed various evangelical groups, sadly, kind of following the money. We’ve discovered that they were not being funded by evangelicals, but by people with political purposes. And, sadly it caused the deviation from from the Gospel, the Christ-centered Gospel, but more into “social justice” sort of defined by the political left.
And they were pretty effective at it. I mean, they’ve they’ve managed to get enough press, and now get enough pastors to either become silent on those issues or actually buy into that left-wing view. I would argue, a distorted view of Scripture. So, they’ve been pretty effective over the last 15 years or so.
Soros Brings Churches Into the Progressive Cause
Yes, I mean, George Soros was tired of losing elections after Al Gore and John Kerry. There was a famous meeting in his home and in about 2004. They–he was convinced that he needed to fund “a faith narrative, a faith narrative” to split the red states and to confuse and divide the evangelical voting bloc that’s naturally going to vote for religious liberty and the sanctity of life and strong families, and on and on. Â And so, it’s a very deceptive sort of Olinsky, Garden of Eden, nefarious tactic, which used or cherry picks Bible words. So, this is what Soros, through Open Society Foundation at Soros.org, started funding Jim Wallace and Sojourners to do. Which is to cleverly bring churches into the so-called progressive cause, and also to give a faith-front with minister people in minister outfits and using beautiful but cherry-picked Bible verses.
“I was a stranger and you welcomed Me,” etc.. Nothing about Nehemiah building walls.
Soros” Goal: A Permanent Progressive Majority
But, to use that for open borders and amnesty. Why? For quick voter registration. Why? Soros wants a permanent progressive majority, a permanent progressive majority, not a constitutional republic, not America.
Very terrible stuff, and he’s done this to other countries. So, we were just connecting the dots and following the money and realizing what was at work here. Because, the money then–Open Society is a 25-billion, with a “B,” dollar foundation, and it’s the money is ending up all over. We can’t even begin to imagine the tentacles of this thing: for destroying marriage, for attacking religious liberty, for drug legalization, for abortion, for legalized prostitution, on and on. And now it’s being dangled in front of Christians; so, people have to be aware and say, “No.”
And challenge their pastors to ssay, “No,” I would argue.
Yes, and often the pastors don’t really understand what’s going on. I was pulled into it without understanding in the “90s, Finding God at Harvard, a book of testimonies, came out. The Veritas Forum started catching on. I was considered an evangelical leader, and I started to get pulled into these, on climate change stuff, and I didn’t know what I was in the middle of–I was a useful idiot, helping. So, they pick up people who are sort of rising stars, and then suddenly, they’re using them to divide the Republican voting base.
And so I sort of learned the hard way. And I want to assume the best. Really, people don’t always understand. We have to not listen to words, or look beyond the words, like “love,” “compassion” and so forth.
What Soros is doing now with this so-called caravan is not compassionate. It’s destroying families all through Central America. They’re doing it as a political street theater. It’s not grassroots. It’s very organized. It’s a very well funded. That kind of thing. The Kavanaugh hearing, the same thing. So we just, Jesus said to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
Be Wise as Serpents, Harmless as Doves
And so, that’s why we formed AmericanEvangelicals.com.
An answer to prayer, by the way.
Thank you. You guys are an answer to prayer. I mean, we all need each other, right?
No doubt. No doubt. Okay, I”m sorry. I jumped in as you were saying the website. So, AmericanEvangelicals.com, and that’s where I watched the videos today. They are very well done and lots of great tools that people can use it. And Kelly, just a just a practical–I mean, I’m thinking about things happening in my own backyard. I live in this, what used to be a pretty small town in Texas, called Dripping Springs. So, it is Â a little place and used to be very conservative, church on every corner. And just this last week, my wife and I were lamenting the fact that that the threads on Facebook in our community are now all about how they’re going after a baker in our hometown. It didn”t even happen; but, somebody said that he wouldn’t serve a homosexual couple that was getting married. And so, even in our little town here, we started seeing all these quotes from people saying, “That’s not the Christian way,” and “The Christian way is tolerance,” and, “The Christian way is this,” and espousing all these things that supposedly the Biblical, Christian position that are definitely not. But, I say all that to say the impact and the results of what Soros has been doing in the evangelical community through–I love your term “useful idiots,” Â just people that don’t or didn’t realize it maybe. And then, some that I think are glad to be used in this way, is real. This thing is real; this is not just a behind-the-scenes thing; it’s having an impact in our communities.
The American Association of Evangelicals
Yes, very much. It’s artificially manipulating our culture and we should rise up against that. And so, what I recommend. I mean this is–we started The American Association of Evangelicals. It’s really an ad hoc,, kind of loose fellowship, coalition. There’s no membership fee; there’s no money behind. It’s like I don’t even know how it’s happening. But, if you go on Facebook to the American Association of Evangelicals or go to AmericanEvangelicals.com, sign the letter there, put your name and e-mail in. It’s growing about a thousand people a day.
And we do three things. We share the Christ-centered Gospel. Number two: we teach Biblical worldview on issues, the whole counsel of Scripture, not cherry picking Scripture. Number three: we engage opposition to the Gospel in the nation, including the persecuted Christians. And so, we take our words back.
Time to Take the Word “Love” Back
I would recommend on the baker situation or many of these situations, non-life giving sexuality, whatever form that is, anything but covenant marriage, that’s the old news. That’s not progress that’s regress. People suffered needlessly. It was covenant marriage that was the greater love that brought people out of polygamy and disease and loneliness and poverty into a protected family situation that became the the building block of a flourishing culture. And so, I think we’re–now is at a time for people to take the word “love” back where it belongs. That was the greater love for human beings. And so, socialism isn’t loving; whereas, creativity–made in the image of God to create and produce and to be generous, that loving men. Let’s take the word love back. Understand that Biblical truth is the highest love for human beings. It’s the actual progress. Don’t believe. The other side wants to co-opt words all the time. That’s what they do. That’s what the devil does. We need to be thinking Christians who out of love take our word take our words back and understand God’s love for people and how He would guide us into a flourishing life and culture.
Politically Correct People Need to Use Their Brains and Their Hearts
So good, so powerful. You also said in this article I read, “Politically correct people need to use their brains and their hearts and think about what causes suffering and what causes flourishing.” What you are getting people to do is actually think about the consequences. Think about the formula that produces certain results. And in fact, you’ve got one of the signatories on your letters of my good friend Congressman McEwen. He always says, “There’s a cause for the effect. You don’t get wealthy and free by accident.” There’s a cause for the effect. What you’re saying is that there’s a cause for the effect of a torn-up culture and the pain that’s caused from the things that we’ve been adopting in our nation. We’ve got to stop and think about that. What works and what doesn’t work? Just start using some some common sense here in applying Scripture.
If we’re silent about the manipulation and social engineering of the left, or whatever we call it, the anti-Christian forces, then we’re not loving. We have to now speak; we have to stand up.One way of doing that is joining us on Facebook at American Association of Evangelicals and AmericanEvangelicals.com. And begin, and watch the videos there. The three-minute video “Soros”s Rented Evangelicals,” you can share that on Facebook. And then, watch the longer 15-minute video; it’s amazing.
What You Can Do Now
And signed the letter. I mean go through read on the homepage. Here’s an easy action-step for folks today. Watch those videos; read through the letter. It’s got Eric Metaxas and Alveda King and Bob McEwen and George Barna.
And David Barton.
A lot of our friends, a lot of our folks. Go read that letter. First of all, you are going to get educated on a lot of things as you read that letter. But, then also sign. And that’s that’s one thing I love about what you’re doing. You’re not just educating people, you’re moving them to action. You’re saying, “Look, you have to stand up.” That third point you made a while ago, about how you’ve got to stand up to the anti-Christian forces out there as well. So, you’re getting people educated, and you’re moving them to action.
We”re to Be Stewards of Our Culture
Well, praise God. I mean, we all need each other right now. We”re to be stewards of our culture. The Lord wants us to be strong and courageous. Love speaks; love stands.
Amen. AmericanEvangelical.com, you can sign up right there. I’m assuming–I know you’ve got an e-mail list. They can get on the e-mail list to stay informed as you are moving forward with other action items, right?
Yes, they just add their e-mail and sign the letter, and will be going forward.
All right. All right. Great stuff. Kelly, thank you for what you’re doing. God bless you. We wish you the best and look forward to working with you going forward.
Great, Rick. Thanks for calling.
Stay with us folks we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.
This Precarious Moment Book
This is David Barton. I want to let about a brand new book we have called This Precarious Moment, Six Urgent Steps That Will Save You, Your family, and Our Country. Jim Garlow and I have co-authored this book and we take six issues that are hot in the culture right now.
Issues that we’re dealing with, issues such as immigration, race relations, our relationship with Israel, the rising generation Millennials, and the absence of the church in the culture wars, and where American heritage is, our godly heritage. We look at all six of those issues right now that are under attack and we give you both Biblical and historical perspective on those issues that provide solutions on what each of us can do right now to make a difference.
These are all problems that are solvable if we’ll get involved. So you can grab the book This Precarious Moment and find out what you can do to make a difference. This Precarious Moment is available at WallBuilders.com.
Silence Is Not an Option
Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live!
Thanks to Kelly Kullberg for coming on, as well for the good work that they’re doing. We”ll have links at our website today at WallBuildersLive.com.
David, Tim, we were talking in the beginning of the program. By the way, we’re back with David and Tim Barton. At the beginning the program, we were talking about the importance of love truth, and being willing to be governed by that truth. And it sounds like that’s really what they’re standing up and saying, is that silence is not an option. We’ve got to stand for actual Biblical truth and and combat some of these rented evangelicals. I think that phrase is true. Some of these folks that have been used by Soros and the left to create a false narrative that the that the church believes something that it really doesn’t.
We Must Talk About Consequences
And you do get, as she said, “useful idiots” who followed that with a good heart, as she did when she was into climate change, not knowing better. Then she studied and found out that’s not true. So, there is a sense of truth there. Rick, I love what she’s told her. You said, “Kelly you’re getting people to think about the consequences.” And I would say that within the Christian community, that is probably one of the things that we do the least right now of anything. We don’t talk about consequences. Let me just throw out why I say that. Jesus said in John 16, “Look, when I’m gone, the Holy Spirit is going to come and take my place. I can only be with you in one spot. The Holy Spirit can be with all of you. And here’s His ministry. What he’s going to do is reprove the world of sin. He’s going to convict His people of righteousness, and he’s going to tell you about judgment.” And it’s the judgment side that we avoid, particularly judgment–
What verse is that you’re quoting?
That is John 16:8, John 16 8. And the judgement side, the Bible says, “Judgement begins in the house of God.” And I was reminded of what Paul said in Second Corinthians 5, verses 10 and 11. He said, “Look. We’re all going to appear before the judgment seat of Christ. We’re going to receive the things we’ve done our body, according to what we’ve done, whether it’s good or bad.” And then he says this; he says, “Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.” Now most Christians don’t think about the terror of the Lord but–
“He’s just a loving God. What are you talking about? He”s not terrorizing. He just loves everybody.”
Exactly. And so, Jesus said, “Hey, the Holy Spirit, it’s all about judgment. When he comes back, he’s going to help you know about judgment.” And Paul says that because we understand that we’re all going to be judged and appear before God, that’s why we convince others. Very, very, very rarely do we hear anything about the judgment of God or the wrath of God, even on his people, much less on those who commit sin outside that. And that is that sense of accountability.
Truth: Need to Conform to His Standards.
Rick, again going back to what you said. She gets you to think about consequences; there are consequences. You do not get to define your own truth in the kingdom of God. You do not get to choose your own truth. You have to go by his standards, and that’s something that the church has got to get back to. And it starts with Christians. We’ve got to go back to that standard of we will be judged according to His standards not our own. We need to conform to His standards.
We”ll have a link today at WallBuildersLive.com; so, Â you can learn more about the American Association of Evangelicals. And maybe you’re that voice within your church and your community. You can do voter guides; you can bring the information from Kelly’s website. Share that with the people in your life as well, so that you’re helping to educate the people around you on those Biblical truths. Help us spread that good news and spread those Biblical truths across the nation by going to WallBuilders.com and making one-time or monthly donation. Become a partner of our organization and this radio program; that will allow us to train more pastors as we take them to Washington D.C., train young leaders to spread the good news through this program. The great interviews that we’re able to share with you, the Foundations of Freedom Thursday, where we dive into those founding principles for you. And then, those Good News Fridays where we give you that good news that’s happening out there to encourage you to be engaged, to know that the system does work, if we work the system. And that’s where we get to do our duty as citizens. Thanks for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live!
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