Conquest, Sanctuary Counties, And More – With Sheriff Mack On Foundations of Freedom: Should we have open borders because we are we on “stolen land”? Who corrected the problems of the Era of Conquest sooner than any other nation? Who can stop the tyranny in this nation? What is happening with sheriffs across the nation, and why does it matter? When should judges be impeached? Tune in to hear the answers to these questions, plus a special interview with Sheriff Richard Mack!

Air Date: 08/19/2021

Guest: Sheriff Richard Mack

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture

President Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. Thanks for joining us today on WallBuilders Live. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday. That’s a one day a week where we take your questions. You can email them into [email protected], [email protected]. And we’re going to try to get to as many questions as we can.

We also have Sheriff Richard Mack as a special guest today, so he’ll be on with us in a later segment. But let’s start getting into your questions. By the way, go ahead and go to today, you can make your contribution there, you can listen to some of the archive programs and just a wealth of information there. So check that out at

I’m Rick Green, by the way, former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach, and I’m here with David Barton, America’s premier historian, and our founder at WallBuilders, and Tim Barton is a national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. So guys, let’s jump into those questions. We got a lot of different questions across the board on foundational principles. So let’s jump into the first question. Are you guys ready?


Well, wait, Rick, before you do, just a quick flashback and update. You may recall that a couple weeks ago we had Chad Robichaux on the program, and Chad was trying to get some of those Afghans out of Afghanistan before the Taliban took over. These were guys that have worked with the Americans; one of those Afghan guys that actually saved his life multiple occasions. And so he was working hard to get these American allies out of there before the Taliban started killing all of them. They’d already started killing some and so he wanted to rescue them.

The White House Comment Line “Temporarily Closed”

And so at the time, we said, look, this needs to be raised on the radar screen of the White House, the White House needs to know about this. And we just got to get some pressure on the White House. And so at the time, we gave out the number for the White House, which is where you contact the White House, say, hey, this is an issue you guys need to know about, this is important to us.

And so we gave that number out, and we had people call and then we got this message back from folks. Said, well, we call the White House comment line, and we call the number you gave, but the White House comment line has been disconnected, and it’s called, “temporarily closed”. And it turns out it’s been temporarily closed since Biden took office.

So since Biden took office, you can’t send a comment to the White House comment line, which is just a maybe that’s indicative of how crazy this whole situation has been. But the other good news is Chad was able to get those guys out of there. And so that’s the good news, is we didn’t get any help from Biden in doing that. But nonetheless, people responded and did the right thing. It’s just unbelievable to me that the White House says it won’t comments. And it’s been that way since he’s taken office. You know, at least even take them and ignore them, and at least seem like you’re listening. But to not even have it connected, this just as crazy stuff. So all of that before we get to the first question.


Well, when they came in, they said, you know, that phone line thing, put a lid on it. So you know, that’s what they always say, when I say they’re going to lead for his day is usually like 11am they’re done.


And apparently, they did. It’s like we have our agenda. We really don’t care what the American people want, or what comes up and we’re going to do our thing. And that is such a poor, that’s not a class act for either party. I mean that’s just…

Finally Some Real Questions


It’s the same as walking away and not taking any questions in any press conference where there are tough questions to be asked. And of course, normally, they cover for him and his softball questions, what kind of ice cream did you have? But you know, as things have gotten worse and worse, and their incompetence has shown, even the media has had to finally ask tough questions, and he just walks away. Same thing, don’t answer the phone. Don’t take the questions.

Alright, let’s jump into those questions. Michael has the first question. He says “How do you answer the question that we are on stolen land, that the Europeans came and stole the land from the Indians, the Mexicans, thus, we should have open borders and basically give the land back to the Indians or Mexicans, etc.

Thanks for all you do for American freedom. Love your radio show.” Michael, thank you for the question. Alright, David, Tim, what do you say about the stolen land?


Well, when I go back and look in the Scriptures, I see that God gave it all to Adam and Eve. So the question I’ve got is who stole it from Adam and Eve because it’s not theirs anymore? And you know, that’s the ridiculous thing, is every single person got it from somebody else. So if you’re going to say we started from Mexicans, the question is who did Mexicans steal it from?

And if Mexicans stole from the Indians, which tribe did this Indian tribes steal from that Indian tribe? And it just goes on and on and on that nobody came up with title deed to this land. Show me the Mexican title deed to the land or the Native American title deed to the land or anything else? I mean, that’s a ridiculous question. And that question needs to be answered with other questions.

The Era of Conquest


And in the era of conquest, it’s also very foolish to presume that somebody is dishonorable for being a good warrior in the midst of the conquest era. This is something that if you look, for example, at the native tribes, one of the things that is very well documented and noted is that prior to Columbus discovering “the New World”, if you look inside the native populations, it’s estimated that between 20-40% of every native tribe was a slave from another native tribe. So you’re talking about up to 40% of native tribes were slaves from other native tribes. This was the conquest era.

And this is why it’s so foolish when people look back and say, well, wait a second, right, Columbus allowed some of his men to enslave some of the natives. Well, there were some natives he did allow his men to enslave. But there’s also a lot of context to that, which real quick plug, if you want to know a lot more details about that, get “The American Story”, the book that my dad and I did together, and we go into a lot of depth of that.

But the bottom line is, Columbus, after the first journey, had to leave one of his ships had run aground and had to leave some of his men behind, and they built a fort. And there was a native tribe, the Taínos, they were very good friends with. And there was a second tribe that was the Caribe, or the Caribs, or also known as the Cannibs where the word cannibal comes from. And while Columbus was gone between his first and second voyage, the Caribe, or the Cannibs came, and they killed and actually ate some of Columbus’s men, or actually, they killed all the men, they ate the men.

And Columbus comes back. And when he comes back, he finds these men that have been eaten, that have been cannibalized, that have been killed. And at this point, he’s furious. They are trying to figure out what happened.

They go to the Taíno, the Taíno say, hey, it wasn’t us. It’s this other tribe we tried to warn you about. And Columbus and the Taíno join forces, and more or less, they go on the warpath. In the midst of going on the warpath, that’s when they have a battle against this Caribe tribe. And that is at the end of the battle, that’s when Columbus allows his men to enslave some of these Caribe natives who they did not kill.

Shallow and Shortsighted

But this is also the 1400s. In the 1400s, at the end of the battle, there were only two options for the survivors of the people you just conquered. Either you enslave them, or you kill them. And so this was not an unjust war in that sense. Columbus didn’t start this war. And this was a war against people that had killed and cannibalized, eaten his men. So this is again, where there’s context.

This is an era in a world of conquest. The world was not friendly. The world wasn’t fun. The world was bloody.

It was messy. But this is where people are very shallow and shortsighted looking at America. And this is, again, part of this Marxist ideology where people want to pretend like America is the great evil. America actually has been one of the most virtuous nations, has been one of the most generous nations, has been one of the most equitable nations, and I’m using that word maybe a little differently than the way it’s applied in some regards today.

We’ve done the best job with recognizing the rights of the most people than any other nation in the history of the world. It doesn’t mean that bad things didn’t happen at some point. But also, when you look in the era of conquest, that’s just the way things were in the era of conquest. We’re not there anymore. And we corrected those problems sooner than any other nation, arguably, in the world. And this is again, where America is actually exceptional.

So this notion of how do we defend America stealing land from the Mexicans or from Mexico or from the native, from the Indians, there’s a lot of context to that. Again, there’s a lot of details we put in the book, “The American Story”. You can find it on You can find it on Amazon. You can get more information there. And we’re not the only people that have written about this. But certainly, there’s a lot of good answers to this.

There’s actually some articles on our website as well. You can go to and find some good articles there. But this is something that really is a Marxist or communist based attack question wanting to try to show America being evil. But if you do the research, you realize America actually did a better job than virtually any other nation in the world than handling some of these issues.



Yeah, Mike appreciate you sending that question in. A lot of people are asking about this now. It’s why “The American Story” is such an important book for such a time as this, is essentially America has been on trial. All of our actions throughout our history are being completely distorted and taken out of context. So those answers and those stories in the book are absolutely essential, if you really want to understand these things. So appreciate you sending the question, Michael.

We’re going to take a quick break. When we come back, Sheriff Richard Mack’s going to be with us, we’re going to be talking about what sheriffs can do. So Foundations of Freedom Thursday really focused in today on how you have sanctuary counties. And we’re really going to encourage sheriffs across the country to get constitutionally literate and take some of these classes. Stay with us, we’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.

Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have here at WallBuilders called The American Story. For years, people have been asking us to do a history book, and we finally done it. We start with Christopher Columbus and go roughly through Abraham Lincoln. And one of the things that that so often we hear today are about the imperfections of America, or how so many people in America that used to be celebrated or honored really aren’t good or honorable people.

One of the things we acknowledge quickly in the book is that the entire world is full of people who are sinful and need a savior, because the Bible even tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And yet what we see through history, and certainly is evident in America is how a perfect God uses imperfect people and does great things through them. The story of America is not the story of perfect people.

But you see time and time again how God got involved in the process and use these imperfect people to do great things that impacted the entire world from America. To find out more, go to and check out The American Story.

Welcome Sheriff Mack


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. Man, I’m excited about Sheriff Richard Mack being with us today, Sheriff Mack, it’s an honor to have you on, brother. Thanks for coming on.


Thanks so much, Rick, it’s great to be back with you, and appreciate all that you’re doing for the cause of liberty.


Well, man, you have been traversing the whole country. It is so important right now to get sheriffs educated on their constitutional duties and powers. And I know you’re experiencing the same thing we are and that is that people are waking up.

They’re more interested in these topics than ever before. And that’s why we wanted to have you on to talk about your experience as a sheriff, your Supreme Court case that was a massive victory for the Tenth Amendment, and then what people can do to be a part of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association.

First, let me just ask you that question. Have you noticed the same wakeup over the last year as people have seen more tyranny, they finally said, wait a minute, I think I need to pay attention to what’s going on here?


Yeah, the abuse and oppression from government, especially the current administration has awakened many people. And I will tell you the good news. And I know you’re calling from Texas. The good news, in fact, the fantastic news is Texas sheriffs are on fire with this.

Excitement About CSPA Seminars

And I mean, we can hardly keep up with the calls and requests from sheriffs in Texas, who are waking up and working with their citizens to restore the Constitution to this once great land. And this is going to be a great country again.

But right now, the government is the number one enemy. And we have people who are recognizing that and especially the sheriffs in Texas. And just in the past few weeks, we’ve trained over 85 public officials from Texas.

And these are not just sheriffs. We’ve done about 50-55 sheriffs. And since we had our conference there in the woodlands in the last part of February, it’s well over 100 sheriffs, and that’s just the past few months. And then…


That’s more than a third of the counties in Texas. That is fantastic.


Correct. Correct. It is. And there’s more asking for the seminars for our CSPA seminars.

Right now, we have a couple in September coming up and then even more in October. And the sheriffs hear that from another sheriffs that went to the conference and went to our seminar and they said, gosh, we got to have that here. And they keep calling us.

And we just had a sheriff in Oregon that wrote to his Governor Brown saying that he will not go along with any more of her dictatorship. And boy, he really laid it on her. He started out we need to have a conversation and then he just tore a new one about how she’s not a dictator of Oregon, and all her socialistic takeovers of the state have been so detrimental to his people, and he won’t allow it to happen anymore.

The Sheriffs Can Stop the Tyranny

And yeah, the sheriffs are now moving. And it’s exactly what we have said for over 10 years, that the sheriffs can stop the tyranny in this country. We’re seeing the living proof of it today. My decision is coming to full force now, where it says that the federal government is not on us.

In fact, is languages we are not subject to federal direction. Sheriffs are now getting that, and they’re pushing back, and they’re defending the liberty and human rights and civil rights of every citizen in their county. And what’s more?

If we needed even more icing on the cake here, this is a peaceful and effective process. And I stress and highlight peaceful and the power of peace is starting to work.


I love it. I love it. Okay, I got to give the website out real quick, that stands for Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association, CSPOA.


And every citizen can join. Every citizen can donate. And with all the seminars we’re doing, we sure need your help.


That’s right and when they donate, that helps to make it possible to do the seminars, the online version available for sheriffs that can’t attend the live seminars. We’ll have a link to the website at WallBudilers Live today as well. Sheriff, let’s back up a little bit. Because right now is a great time for people to start thinking about jurisdiction, which level of government, which officer can do certain things.

A Landmark Case

Because I think people are finally realizing, wait a minute. I mean, I didn’t know, government could tell me how I could breathe or what my medical decisions would be, or when I could go to work or when I could leave my house, you got to be kidding me. And so they’re starting to pay attention to this. And you won a landmark case. You teamed up with another Sheriff Prince, and that’s people typically if they’re searching for it, that’s what they’ll see it under, as Prince v. US. But this was huge.

And you basically said, when the federal government came out with this brady bill, and it’s gun control regulations, and all this, you said, no, not my county, that’s unconstitutional. I’m not going to use my manpower to implement an unconstitutional law from the federal level. You can’t press us into service.

And you won. I mean, you took that thing all the way to the Supreme Court and won. And this is a huge case. I mean, many people out there may not have heard of it, they don’t recognize it as something that backed up the Tenth Amendment, but this is a big deal.


Yeah, it is. It was the most powerful Tenth Amendment decision in the history of America. And it had happened from two small towns’ sheriffs. One in Montana, as you mentioned, Prince, and myself from Arizona.

And I started the whole thing. And I was just naive. I thought, you know, I guess, we better sued the federal government here, but I never thought it was going to go to the Supreme Court. I hope that it would, but I never thought it would make it.

A Trip to the Supreme Court

And because Sheriff Cooke from Texas also filed, and Sheriff Romero from Louisiana, they saved Prince and me because we were in the Ninth Circuit where we were overturned, and we lost. But the Fifth Circuit for Texas and Louisiana in New Orleans ruled against this Ninth Circuit. And so we had conflicting cases at the circuit level and that guaranteed as a trip to the Supreme Court. So I will always sing praises of [inaudible 17:04] Cooke, the only Sheriff from all of Texas that joined us in this lawsuit.


Wow. Well, and right now today, of course, here we are, you know, what two decades later and it is becoming maybe one of the most important cases in our history, because we hear a lot of talk about sanctuary counties.

But if a county is going to say, hey, we’re going to be a sanctuary County, whether it’s for protecting life, or no COVID fascism or no gun control, or whatever that issue might be, the mechanism for enforcement is the sheriff. Without the sheriff understanding their constitutional duty, you can call yourself a sanctuary county all day long, but the feds are going to come in and run the show. You got to have a sheriff that knows their proper constitutional role, correct?


Yes. And they’ve got to have the courage to stand. And the more we have doing that, the more courage is spreading around. And my hat’s off to Sheriff Hargrove from Texas, and Sheriff Scott Williams from Texas who have really got on board just since our conference in the woodlands in February. They have totally converted. And Sheriff Hargrove…


Now is that Randy Hargrove in Houston County?

A Constitutional Revival




Oh, yeah, I was filling in for a radio host out of Mississippi on an American Family Association show and he called it and we had the greatest conversation. I’m so looking forward to working with him.


That’s him. That’s him. And he called our conference “A Constitution Revival”. And that’s exactly what this is. It’s going across the country. And Sheriff Hargrove is now on our steering committee and he’s one of our best and we love him.


I love it. I love it. Well, Sheriff, I’m typically in our program is very much a Joshua and Caleb, you know, that God gave us the land, let’s take the land, very optimistic, glass half full all the time. But I got to tell you. Man, I mean, I see dark days.

I see real conflict, not going away quickly in our country. And so if we don’t get educated about where to draw the line in the sand, how to stand as you said, peacefully, to prevent violence from happening, if we don’t get the education to be able to do this the right way, then it will devolve into absolute chaos. So this is so, so important for the future of our country and our individual neighborhoods.

Again, the website,, and you don’t have to be a sheriff to sign up. You can donate there. You can take the class as well, even if you’re not a sheriff, right?

Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association


Correct. Absolutely. The citizens have to know what their share supposed to be doing. Absolutely.


Yeah, exactly. Okay. Well, now, the next you said you got a couple more seminars coming up in the fall. Are those online? Are you doing some more in person?


Oh, no. They’re in-person. They’re in-person. No mask. No nothing.

You know, Europe has come out just recently and said, look, we know this is a problem, but we’re going to live with it. We’re not going to shut everything down and destroy the economy and do all these crazy things, so we’re going to learn to live with it. And I think we all need to take that attitude.


We have to. We have to. I was speaking at an event just the other night. And I said I’m just going to give you a couple of bullet points on this whole COVID fascism thing. A

nd number one is, look, almost everybody’s going to get it, just deal with it. It’s going to happen. But there are treatments out there. There are ways to deal with this. There’s ways to build your immune systems, ways to treat it when you get it. I mean, anyway, I don’t want to get too far off on that. But…

Effective Treatments


A buddy of mine just used Ivermectin to get over his.


Yeah, there you go. I mean, it’s criminal that they won’t talk about Ivermectin. 24 studies now showing how effective it is. And they won’t do it. Because if they do, they have to pull the vaccine because the emergency authorization doesn’t allow for authorization.


You know, those pharmaceutical companies won’t be able to continue to make $60 billion a year?


It’s on every does, right? Oh, wait, we might need another dose. Here’s another $10 billion for Big Pharma. Oh, let’s go with a fourth dose and a fifth dose. Oh, it’s crazy. It’s crazy.

And that is actually one of the reasons I think what you’re doing is so important, is because look, people that think this government will not get to the point where they’re coming to your door. And literally, I mean, look, Alan Dershowitz had the nerve to say last summer, and I did a whole video responding to him on this, that the government had the constitutional power to drag you out of your home and shove the needle in your arm. He is so wrong on that.

Alan Lied


What an idiot!


Yeah, I mean, I just could not believe that he said that. But they will definitely try. I mean, they are headed that direction.


On a virus that’s a 99% survival rate.


Yeah. Yeah.


When was the last time that happened?


Oh, it’s crazy. But the only way to stop that if and when they get to that point, is the constitutional sheriffs. I mean, we have got to have places where people know, not in our county, it’s not going to happen here. And that’s why the sheriffs had to put this education.


Amen to that. Amen. Thank you so much.

Impeaching Judges


Well, we appreciate you, brother, thank you for what you’re doing. And folks can get on your email list at the website there, get informed to the live seminars, take the online seminar. But just thank you for what you’re doing for restoring the Constitution. I mean, this education about the Constitution for our elected officials and for us as citizens, so important, and just appreciate all that you’re doing, man.


Thanks. Thanks so much. County by county and sheriff by sheriff, we’ll take America back.


And that was Sheriff Richard Mack. We encourage everybody, not just sheriffs, but everybody to study the Constitution. We got to know our rights to know how to defend them and assert them. David and Tim, of course, important for our elected officials to know that, but we as citizens, as well. So we love seeing the education of the sheriffs across the country beginning to take place.

We’ve got time for one more question from the audience. And this was going to be asked by Shawn. He said, “I was wondering, with the judges here in Texas that have ruled against the governor’s executive order 38, if these judges can be impeached like federal judges can? And I think guys, that’s the one the recent order on no requirement of vaccine passports in any business that has received any government aid, or it’s the mask order. It’s one of those two, which you guys know?

The Texas Fight


I don’t know, but it is COVID-related. And the question as asked is okay, if the judges don’t follow what the governor said, can they be impeached essentially? And I would change the question, Shawn.

I would say it’s not Greg Abbott’s position to be able to tell judges what they should do in all these orders and areas. That’s part of why we have separation powers.

But I would say that if the order is given, and if, let’s say the Dallas County Judge, which they did, said, well, we don’t by that, we don’t follow that, we’re going to strike down your order, then if the Texas Supreme Court comes along, as it did, and said, no, the governor’s order is constitutional, it does stand, and Dallas County, you have to do that.

Then if the Dallas County Judge says, well, we’re not going to follow the Texas Supreme Court, we’re not going to follow our superiors, we’re going to do our own thing, that’s where you start looking at impeachment. Is not necessarily, because a judge disagreed with Greg Abbott.

Because Greg Abbott does not have the authority to tell the other branches what to do. He can’t tell the legislature what to do or the judicial what to do. But once the judicial branch has settled it at the Supreme Court for their level, then if you don’t follow that, that’s where you need to start looking at an impeachment at that point.

And so the question is that something that’s available in Texas? And the answer is yes. When the Founding Fathers laid out state governments before they laid out federal governments, remember state is what created federal, not the other way around.

Holding Judged Accountable

You had 13 state governments, and they said, now let’s create a federal government, they had already set forth. And I would encourage you to look at the clause in the Massachusetts Constitution of 1780, which is the only Constitution in the world that’s older than the US Constitution is the Massachusett’s Constitution.

Founding Fathers like Sam Adams and John Adams and Robert Treat Paine and John Hancock and others said all three branches have to be accountable to the people at all times. And therefore the people can get at the judges and they can do so through impeachment. So virtually, every state Constitution has a way to be able to hold judges accountable if they go renegade or try to or what the governor or the people or somebody else say.

So the answer is yes, the Texas Constitution does have impeachment clauses in, as does essentially every state Constitution. And that’s part of the separation of powers. But not just because the governor said so, but because those judges would not follow the final decision that was reached both by the governor and by the Texas Supreme Court.


Yeah, and I’ll just add one comment to this one in this particular case with these public health orders. The Texas statutes, the way they read is it’s the state level at the governor level that Trump. So in other words, if there’s a disagreement between a local health official in a county, for instance, and what the policy should be there, and what the state is saying, and what the state health commissioner and the governor saying –

Conquest, Sanctuary Counties, And More – With Sheriff Mack On Foundations of Freedom

Then according to the state statutes anyway, that ruling by the governor or by the State Health Commissioner is what actually becomes the law of the land for the state of Texas, at least according to those Texas statutes. And that’s what the Texas Supreme Court was also looking at.

Anyway, let’s not forget, all these county judges were absolutely embracing Governor Abbott last year whenever he was giving them the authority to do mask orders and all these other things that we were saying, wait a minute, he doesn’t even have authority to do that and he’s giving you the authority.

At least now we’re on the flip side, and the governor’s actually saying okay, enough is enough, we’re not going to do those anymore. But man, there’s school districts still trying to do it, city still trying to do it, county. So, going to be some interesting legal battles coming up over all of the COVID fascism.

We should appreciate you listening to Foundations of Freedom Thursday today. You can get more at our website at