Constitution Alive Section Two – The Seeds Of Liberty Day Three: Our Constitution is still alive and applicable today! As citizens, we all have a duty to study the Constitution, to understand where our rights and our freedoms are laid out in that document, and how our government structure should work. The reason our government continues to overstep its boundaries is because “we the people” don’t know what those boundaries are! Tune in for day three of another segment from Constitution Alive as we talk about the seeds of liberty and lay the foundation for studying our Constitution and Declaration in later episodes.

Air Date: 03/06/2019

On-air Personalities: David Barton and Rick Green


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

You’ve found your way to the intersection of faith and politics – WallBuilders Live with David Barton and Rick Green. Our websites – WallBuilders.com, WallBuildersLive.com, and today I also want to share with you Constitution Alive.com which specifically goes to the program that you’re going to hear today on Constitution Alive. It’s the third part in a four part series this week where we’re sharing with you a big part of the Constitution Alive program.

Now, if you missed the last couple of days, don’t worry, you can go to our website right now at WallBuildersLive.com. You can download those two programs from the last couple of days and then you’ll be all ready for today’s program. And then tomorrow we’ll pick up the conclusion. So, I’m sure that was clear as mud. Here’s the deal – it’s four parts of WallBuilders Live this week, so four programs. And in those four programs we are sharing with you the second chapter of Constitution Alive.

If you’ve been listening daily, then a couple of weeks ago we shared with you Chapter One of Constitution Alive which laid out our purpose and approach, and why we were doing the program, and why it’s important to study the Constitution. Here in Chapter 2 we lay out the seeds of liberty. We’re laying out for you the foundation upon which the Constitution was built. And then later, of course, we go through each and every clause in the Constitution, we talk about how to apply it and how to save it, how to restore our Constitutional Republic.

But for this week we’re just going to get chapter two. We’re going share it with you free of charge here on WallBuilders Live and if you want to listen to the whole thing again, go to WallBuildersLive.com. We’re going to pick up right where we left off yesterday. If for some reason you’re going to miss the program tomorrow, don’t worry, all four programs will be available on our website. But enjoy for now. We’re going to pick up where we left off with Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green.

The Impact Of How We View Yesterday

Rick:

I didn’t want to think about yesterday. And then I got into law school, I started reading the opinions of these judges, and I realized these judges were really into history because the way that they perceived yesterday determined the decision they made in their decisions in the court. So, then I got into the legislature and all my colleagues in the legislature are realizing, it finally became apparent, how we each viewed yesterday determined our decisions today and therefore where our state was going in the future.

Of course, I also find it interesting in the Good Book God says, “Remember the former days.” He talks about studying our history, how many times throughout the word of God they’re constantly a reminder, “Here’s what I was doing here and here’s what happened here.” Constantly looking at history. So, I think it is important for us to study history and that’s why I love being here now. And I’ve fallen in love with history because of how much it influences where we’re going.

But it’s hard for me to imagine – these guys were all there. They knew what had happened in the Revolutionary War and yet even though they were there and part of it, Benjamin Franklin had to stand up and give him a history lesson 11 years after what took place in this room for the Declaration.

Here’s how he put it. He said, “In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for divine protection.” So, Franklin says to his colleagues, “Hey, remember in this room?” See, he was one of six that signed both the Declaration and the Constitution. Kind of like James Wilson who we talked about earlier. A bunch of these guys weren’t there for the Declaration.

So, he’s really reminding them, I think he was speaking to them, and he’s saying, “Hey, you may not have been in here, but let me tell you something – we knew we couldn’t do it on our own.”

Have We Forgotten?

Rick:

So, he said, “In the beginning–”, so he takes them back to this room 11 years previous. He said, “Our prayers were heard and they were graciously answered. All of us engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor.” Then he asked the same question from right here that I think we need to ask today. He said, “Have we now forgotten this powerful friend? Do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?”

I think that’s kind of where we are in America. Do we really think we can solve these massive problems we’re making, that we’re dealing with, just on our own? Do we think we can do it on our own? Franklin said “no” more than two hundred years ago. I would say “no” today.

So, he goes on to say, “I have lived, sir, a long time and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth that God governs in the affairs of men.” You’ve heard this part, “If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? So, here they are, they’re talking about can a nation rise, can they take a Constitution, and create a successful nation. He’s saying it can’t happen without God. He’s saying you can’t do it without God.

He said, “We’ve been assured in the sacred writings that except the Lord build the house they labour in vain that build it. I firmly believe without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.” Then he said something real interesting, he said, “I beg move to leave that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of heaven and His blessing on our deliberation be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business.

Now, why would this guy that– and I would argue out of all the guys, probably the least religious of our Founding Fathers. In fact, I think whether you come from a conservative or liberal point of view on the Founding Fathers, most everybody agrees Ben Franklin is one of our least religious Founding Fathers. But “least” has got to be a relative term because here this least religious Founding Father, if you’re familiar with the Bible at all, you just heard him quote about 11 different scriptures right there in that one short quote. And he’s saying, “Hey, we can’t– you shouldn’t even be trying to do this without God on our side.”

The Hand Of God

Rick:

So here this guy is calling everybody saying, “Hey, we’ve got to keep God in the equation. God’s an essential part of the equation.” Washington later would write and talk about the fact that he ended up leading everybody here to church. And they went to the church service and the pastor there actually preached on, and talked about, and prayed about, the fact that what was happening in this room, God needed to move so that they could reach their compromises, get the Constitution out, so that we could become that beacon on a hill.

And Washington said the attitude really changed when they came back from that and they were able to work through things. Then once they worked through things several of these guys looked back on those moments in this room and they said they believed the hand of God had played a role in what happened in here.

Here’s Franklin later, he said, “I beg I may not be understood to infer that our general convention was divinely inspired when it formed the new federal Constitution. Yet I must own I have so much faith in the general government of the world by providence that I can hardly conceive a transaction of such momentous importance should be suffered to pass without being influenced, guided, and governed, by that omnipotent, omnipresent, and benefficient, Ruler in whom all inferior spirits live, and move, and have their being.” So, he was quoting out of Acts right there to describe what he believed happened.

James Madison, Father of Our Constitution, he said, “The real wonder is that the Constitutional Convention overcame so many difficulties. And to overcome them with so much agreement was as unprecedented as it was unexpected. It is impossible for the pious man not to recognize in it a finger of that Almighty hand which was so frequently extended to us in the critical stages of the Revolution.

Little Short Of A Miracle

Rick:

So, they all remembered how throughout the Revolution they saw God move and give them– I mean, think about it, they were taking on the greatest military on the planet, we were a bunch of rabble rousers, there was no way we could win if there hadn’t been some miraculous things happen. And he said, “Just like we saw it in the Revolution, we saw it in the Constitutional Convention. It couldn’t have happened without God’s hand.”

Alexander Hamilton, same kind of thing, he said, “For my own part I sincerely esteem the Constitution a system which without the finger of God never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests.”

And last, the man that sat in that very chair right there, president of the Convention, George Washington, Father of our Country, he said, “As to my sentiments with respect to the new Constitution, it appears to me little short of a miracle. It demonstrates as visibly the finger of providence as any possible event in the course of human affairs can ever designate it.” It was miraculous, folks.

Constitution Comedy

Hey, all your patriots out there that would like to see more Americans study the Constitution and understand the source of their freedom. How do you get people to pay attention to patriotism, the Constitution, the importance of being good citizens. Well, the answer is two words: Brad Stine. You make it fun, you make it fun to learn.

My friends, this is Rick Green from WallBuilders live, and Brad and I are bringing the comedy and constitution tour to you. We’re doing a live stream across the nation on March 23rd, 2019. Visit ConstitutionCoach.com, and you can sign up to bring this program to your church. You can stream it into your home or your local club. However you’d like to bring it. It’s an opportunity for you to bring the Comedy Constitution to your community, which will fire people up to study the Constitution. It’ll educate, entertain, equip, and inspire folks to accept protect and purposely pass the torch of freedom. Check it out today at ConstitutionCoach.com.

Students Of History

Rick:

The fact that these concepts that had never been put together in a governing body, a republic never created like what they put together, they’re saying it never would have happened if God hadn’t inspired, if He hadn’t made it happen. So, I just want to lay that out first before we actually crack open the Constitution itself and get into the words. To recognize where these guys got their ideas, where they gave credit to. In fact, who they quoted the most.

If we ever really kind of look closely at what these guys were saying, they were students of history. Man, they quoted some of the great minds throughout our history. And I think it’s important for us to know those influences. If you haven’t read Montesquieu in Spirit of The Laws and John Locke and his Two Treatises of Government, all that is kind of the background, the big instruction manual, if you will, for this quick start guide. So, they quoted those guys quite a bit.

And there was a guy in Houston, Texas, University Houston, last name of Lutz, that did a study on their quotes, on who they quoted most often. And he took about fifteen thousand or so writings, I forget the number, and he charted them all, and he put them in a spreadsheet. He figured out, okay, who did these guys quote the most? And Montesquieu actually ranked number one. He was quoted 8.3 percent of the time by these guys. So, almost– what is that– almost 10 percent, almost 1 out of 10 times they’re quoting Montesquieu.

But Blackstone was a close second. They quoted Blackstone quite a bit. He was at 7.9 percent. Locke I mentioned. Now, Locke was probably more influential on the Declaration than on the Constitution, but still very influential. He was 2.9 percent.

In fact, while we’re talking about Locke, I thought it was interesting that Richard Henry Lee over there from Virginia, when he talked about the Declaration of Independence, he said that Jefferson basically copied the Declaration of Independence from Locke’s Two Treatises of Government.

You Do The Math

Rick:

Now, that Two Treatises of Government, my copy’s a 1764 version. It’s about– I think it’s either 404 or 406 pages. That’s not a lot, right, roughly 400 pages. And in those roughly 400 pages there’s about fifteen hundred references to the Bible quoting Scripture on what government ought to look like.

Now, you do the math, that’s about three to four times on every page that John Locke is quoting the Bible. And that’s the book that Jefferson copied the Declaration– according to Richard Henry Lee who was in this room.

Now, you’ll also find phrase after phrase in the Declaration of Independence that was originally preached by a guy named John Wise. If you ever get a chance to read some of John Wise’s sermons, these guys actually reprinted his sermons and put them out for publication because they were like the seeds of liberty, there was so much in there that, when sown, man, people would– they would get excited about freedom, and they would want to be patriots, and want to be part of the Revolution. So, guys like that were a big influence.

But here’s the most influential source on all these guys in the room, I bet you can guess what it was – it’s the Bible. Thirty four percent of the time, man, that’s one out of three they’re quoting the Bible. So, a lot of people say the Bible didn’t have any influence on the Constitution, I would disagree completely. If you read these guys, who they quoted, the phrases in the Constitution they traced back to the Bible, it’s just over, and over, and over again.

So, the idea, just in summary, of truths out of the Declaration, the Creator being the source of our freedom, those were important concepts from the philosophy laid down in the Declaration before they even came to the Constitution itself.

And the last thing I’ll comment on what Rhett had said about the pursuit of happiness. Just give you a quick example on this whole free enterprise thing for America, why these guys knew that the pursuit of happiness was important, why free enterprise was a bedrock principle of our way of life.

Karl Marx Would Have Loved This

Rick:

You’ve got to remember – as students of history they were looking back to how things first started here on this continent. You might remember Bradford tried socialism in the beginning with the pilgrims. And actually, it didn’t work out so well.

Now, it was socialism, I mean, Karl Marx would love this. The way they did it was they said, “Everyone is going to work, whatever you work for and the food you grow, you’re going to put it in the public storehouse and then everybody gets to take from it as they need it.” “Oh and we’ll all love each other, and we’ll hold hands, and sing Kumbaya.”

And it sounded great, right? But what happened? Bradford said it was terrible, it didn’t work at all. He said, “Guys like me, I’d have been over there saying, ‘Hey, why should I work? I get all the food I want. I’m going to play golf.’” I don’t think they played golf back then, but whatever you do with the pillars, “I’m going to go play some games.”

Anyway, so he said, Bradford actually said, “People started faking being sick.” They were actually faking illness. They were they were not working and they were complaining, the ones that were working, complaining say, “Hey, man, Green’s over there not working. I’m feeding his family why did–

Constitution Alive

Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution but just felt like, man, the classes are boring or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago or I don’t know where to start? People want to know. But it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the Constitution either.

Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. It’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the Constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the Cradle of Liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders’ library where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it the QuickStart guide to the Constitution because in just a few hours through these videos you will learn the Citizen’s Guide to America’s Constitution.  You’ll learn what you need to do to help save our Constitutional Republic. It’s fun! It’s entertaining! And it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at WallBuilders.com.

Free Enterprise and Private Property

Rick:

So here’s what he said. He said, “Community of property was found to breed much confusion and discontent.” So, what was his solution? What did Bradford implement that we, actually these guys here, said was so important? Free enterprise and private property. Imagine that.

He said, “Okay, everybody, you get your own property, you can grow stuff on that property, and then you can eat it or you can sell it, you can do whatever you want with it. It’s totally up to you.” And within two years those guys were exporting corn instead of starving to death. Free enterprise, private property, it works and these guys knew it.

Here’s how Bradford described it afterwards, he said, “It made all hands very industrious so that much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been by any means the governor or any other could devise. And save him a great deal of trouble and gave far better satisfaction.” So, in other words, that system worked and these guys knew that. And that’s why they put it in our system in the pursuit of happiness.

Now, here’s where we come in. We are the governor, right? So, it requires our consent for our system to work. If we want just power in our government, then we’ve got to give our consent.

I like James Garfield, President Garfield, was a pastor and also President of the United States and he put it this way, he said, “Now more than ever before the people are responsible for the character of their Congress.” He said, “If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt–” Don’t be hollering out any Congressman’s name, okay– “If that body be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt–” I know we all pictured somebody, but– “If it be ignorant, reckless, and corrupt, it’s because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness, and corruption.”

Living Out The Constitution and The Declaration

Rick

He said, “If it be intelligent, brave, and pure, it’s because the people–” I like this word– “demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature. If the next Centennial does not find us a great nation it will be because the people who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality, of the nation–” That’s us. That’s the people in this room now, the people at home watching, if you watch on the DVD. We are the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation.

He said, “If we don’t have a great nation it’s because those people did not aid in controlling the political forces.” Now, “controlling” there simply means giving or refusing our consent, exercising our freedoms, living out the Constitution and the Declaration.

Last quote on this. One of the guys in this room, John Francis Mercer, he actually told us that this document right here is not enough, that what they were framing would not be enough to guarantee freedom. In fact, he said, “It’s a grave mistake to suppose the paper we are to propose will govern the United States.” He said, “The Constitution will not govern the United States.”

You say, “Wait a minute. I thought we came here to study the Constitution because it’s governing the– He said, “No, it’s the men whom it will bring into the government. See, it’s going to set up the rules for how we choose our leaders and how they’re supposed to govern.”

So, it does set up the rules, but it’s not going to govern us. It’s the men and women we’ll bring into the government and the interest they have in maintaining it that will govern them. The paper will only mark out the mode and the form, kind of like that frame, men of the substance and must do the business. What he’s saying is this document is great, but if we the people put people in office and on the bench that are willing to ignore it, willing to shred it, willing to distort it, willing to govern around it, it just doesn’t mean anything anymore.

The People Not The Document

Rick:

The document doesn’t govern us. The people we put into government is what governs us. So, if we want to uphold this document then we have to make wise decisions in choosing our leaders, we have to be part of the process even as it goes on, even after you choose the leaders, being engaged in our government, watching what’s happening, letting our voice be heard constantly, just like these guys did in their lifetime.

So, that’s that’s the philosophy that they gave us – there is a God there, there are truths, right and wrong worth fighting for, worth dying for, our system of government will work if we’ll just be willing to give or or refuse that consent. Being engaged will make those seeds of liberty spring forth. They’ll give us a great nation of freedom.

So, now that we know the seeds of liberty, now that we know how we’re going to do this, we’re going to dive into the Constitution itself. When we come back in our next section we’re going to do kind of a 30,000 feet view, if you will. We’re going to step back and look at the entire Constitution all at once and then we’ll start zooming into specific areas that are most under attack or most in question today.

Sort of like our our Quick Start Guide, we’re going to look for those places we need to be plugging things in and making sure that they work. So, when we come back we’ll talk about that 30,000 feet view.

Unknown Speaker:

“Establish justice. Insure domestic tranquility. Provide for the common defense. Promote the general.”

Moment From America’s History

David:

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. America has a history of great patriots who love and sacrificed much for their country. One of these was John Witherspoon a signer of the Declaration of Independence. While President at Princeton he personally trained many who became important leaders in American government including James Madison. How could John with a spoon tell if someone really loved America?

He explained, “He is the best friend to American liberty who his most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion and who sits himself with the greatest firmness to bear down profanity and immorality of every kind. Whoever is an avowed enemy of God I hesitate not to call him an enemy to his country.”

Founding Father John Witherspoon believed that a true American patriot opposed profanity and immorality and promoted true and undefiled religion. For more information on God’s hand in American history contact WallBuilders at 1 800 8 REBUILD.

Rick:

Well, I guess you could tell Rhett was having as much fun as you and I have when we get to teaching.

David:

Well, so were you – you were you in the background watching Rhett.

Rick:

You’re right.

David:

So, you had a lot of fun too.

Rick:

I love teaching those principles from that very room. Now, before we get to the 30,000 feet view–

David:

And, by the way, I think that was the third thing was to teach the rising generation. I think that’s the third objective we were shooting for is to teach the rising generation.

Our National Birth Certificate

Rick:

There you go, getting those little guys. That is the rising generation. So, in our next chapter we’ll get the 30,000 feet view on the Constitution itself. But before we do that, some more on these seeds of liberty.

David:

Yeah.

Rick:

Rhett was doing a little bit. He did four principle on the Declaration. You go further in a couple of other paragraphs there–

David:

Yeah.

Rick:

–and broaden it out to the six principles.

David:

Yeah, Rhett got some really good application like the free market system. He showed there’s so many good things there. Let’s go back and back up, just the overview of the Declaration because it’s the national birth certificate, but there’s 155 words up top that set forth six immutable principles.

Rick:

Okay.

David:

Those six principles are followed by twenty seven grievances and then the declaration that because of these principles, the violation of them, twenty seven different categories, we’re now going to become a separate nation.

So, when you look those principles, let’s just take clauses out of those 155 words because this is the essence, this is a key. By the way, this is what you’ve been working on with other states with the Celebrate Freedom Week–

Rick:

Celebrate Freedom Week. Yeah, sure.

Learn The Principles

David:

–which is to get them to learn these kind of principles.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

So, what you’ve got is–

Rick:

If you’ll just get into the founding documents you’ll begin to learn the principles.

David:

–Get into the founding documents, it’s real simple stuff.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

So, you have the clause in the Declaration that says all men are created equal, they’re endowed by their Creator. Now, what does that tell us is our first principle? That there is a divine Creator.

Rick:

Right.

David:

Now, today we’re told, “Well, you can believe that, but not everybody believes in the Creator.” So, that’s why government can’t take a position favoring religion over non-religion, that’s what the courts have told us for these 40 years of judicial activism.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

Wait a minute, that document, it says that it’s the unanimous Declaration of 13 states of America. That doesn’t sound like private individuals talking. This is the unanimous Declaration of all the elected officials from those 13 states sent to the Continental Congress. And later on–

At The Top Of The Pecking Order

Rick:

This is what we agreed on, right? This is what brought us together, this basic philosophy.

David:

This is our public Declaration to the world–

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

–of why we’re doing what we’re doing, why we’re doing what we did because we in America believe there is a divine Creator and that becomes the first step in limited government. You cannot have a limited government if you think government’s at the top of the pecking order.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

If government’s at the top, then what limits it? There’s got to be something higher than government. If there’s nothing higher– So, we said, “Hey, there’s a Creator that’s higher than everything. And that’s why government is limited. It’s not the creator. It doesn’t get to do everything. The Creator does. It’s below the Creator.”

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

So, our thing is, alright, we believe there’s a Creator, we’ve been created, and the Creator gets the right to tell His creation what to do.

Rick:

Right.

David:

So, government, listen up.

One Principle With Huge Impact

Rick:

And that one principle has a huge impact on what kind of nation you’re going to be.

David:

It’s a huge impact.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

You find me any secular government in the world that’s limited government, can’t do it. It’s an oxymoron. You cannot find it. France, Greece, maybe China? No, I can’t go to Cuba. Can’t do Sweden, can’t do Norway, can’t do Chile. You can’t find a secular–

Rick:

If God’s not in the equation, government has to be even bigger.

David:

Government is God.

Rick:

That’s a great way to put it.

David:

There will be a supreme authority and if it’s not God it will be government.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

So, if you don’t get the Declaration concept right that God’s at the top, then government thinks it’s at the top and therefore when it gives you a right it can regulate that right, it can repeal that right, it can take it away. If God’s at the top, if God gives you the right, government, you keep your stinking hands off that because it doesn’t belong to you, it belongs to God. So, it’s a jurisdictional issue. So, that’s the first point.

Rick:

Okay.

The Pickup That Goes With It

David:

The second point is based on that. It says they’re endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. So, number one, not only is there a Creator, He gives us a certain set of rights. These aren’t given by government. They come from the Creator. Therefore, government, these don’t belong to you.

You and I both live in Texas. I’m a cowboy, got the ranch, got all the stuff, and I’ve got the pickup that goes with it, and I got–

Rick:

But no cowboy hat worn here today on set.

David:

Not here, but often on the ranch. That’s right.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

I like my pickup. I’ve got a red Ford pickup. And I’ve looked over at yours and you’ve got a gray Dodge. I don’t like gray, I’m going to go over and paint your pickup red because I like red pickups. I can’t do that.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

I don’t have the jurisdictional authority to go over into something that doesn’t belong to me and change it. And that’s what we do with government is, “Hey, government, these are rights over here, they come from God. They don’t belong to you. You didn’t give them. They come from God. Therefore you cannot go over there and mess with them.” Same way I can’t go mess with your pickup. I may not like a Dodge, I may not like gray, doesn’t matter.

Constitution Alive Section Two – The Seeds Of Liberty Day Three

Rick:

Well, we’re out of time for today, folks. That was Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. We were sharing with you part of section 2, or chapter 2, out of the entire Constitution Alive program.

About 12 hours of material there in that program and those DVD where we take you to Philadelphia, to Independence Hall where the Constitution was actually framed. And from that room in the very place where those Founding Fathers debated the principles upon which our nation was built, in that room we teach on the Constitution. Then we take you to the library of WallBuilders where we share those original documents with you.

And today was part three of that four part series that we’re sharing this week free of charge to you. If you want the entire DVD program for more information you can take a look at it there at ConstitutionAlive.com.

Thank you so much for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.