Christians Must Be Courageous – With Robert Jeffress – Courageous Christians are needed in our culture! Join us with Pastor Robert Jeffress to discuss his book, “Courageous” and how Christians need to step up and be courageous in our world today.

Air Date: 05/04/2020

Guest: Pastor Robert Jeffress

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

Today’s Links:

https://www.amazon.com/Courageous-Strategies-Thriving-Hostile-World-ebook/dp/B07VQPL6PG/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2O64DKQX1PBFD&dchild=1&keywords=courageous+robert+jeffress&qid=1588353962&sprefix=courageous+%2Caps%2C648&sr=8-1

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

 

Rick:

Welcome to WallBuilders Live, thanks for joining us today at the intersection of faith and the culture. It is day 47 of the COVID crackdowns. Can you believe it has been that long already? 47 days of Americans being locked in their homes all across the country, not just in left leaning states like California, but even in conservative states, like Texas.

Now, there’s been a little bit of opening up in Texas and other places, but only with the government micromanaging everything that everyone does. It’s just crazy. We’ve ignored the Constitution. We’ve ignored history. Folks, we’re in this mess because of the real pandemic, which is civic ignorance of history and our Constitution. So, we need to learn the truth about where we came from, what are the principles that work, what have we actually done in the past in situations like this and how do our constitutional rights remain protected in these situations? How do we defend and assert them? Well, that’s what we do here at WallBuilders, we rebuild the foundation. That actually comes from our Scripture in Nehemiah, rise and rebuild the walls that we may no longer be a reproach.

You can be a part of that, go to wallbuilderslive.com today, make that one time our monthly contribution and it helps us to spread the good news. You can take our program and share it with your friends and family on social media and all the other tools that you have. Spread the good news, let’s restore America’s Constitution and you become a part of it.

Now one quick announcement at the beginning of today’s program. Today is the beginning, May 4th is the beginning of our crash course on history and government for people that are schooling from home all across the nation. Some have been doing that their whole lives, some have been doing it ever since the COVID crackdowns. But for whatever reason, if you are schooling from home or you would just like to learn more about history and government, then you need to join us today, is the beginning. We’re going to do this every afternoon, Monday, Wednesday and Friday throughout May and we’re recording the session.

So, if you hear this program today and it’s too late to hop on the program with us in the afternoon, you can still get the recording, you can become a part of this by simply visiting patriotacademy.com. Get to patriotacademy.com today and get signed up and become a part of this fun crash course. It’s going to be live. We’re going to be showing you ‘Chasing American Legends’ episodes, taking you to all kinds of cool places around the country and then we’ll have the people from those episodes on live to take your questions. So, whether it’s Brad Stein, David Barton, Tim Barton, Dr. Alveda King, all kinds of folks are going to be with us in those programs. So check it out today at patriotacademy.com.

We are here with David Barton. He is America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s constitution coach and Jonathan Ritchie is sitting in with us today.

Alright, David, Jonathan, we got pastor Robert Jeffers, he’s going to join us here in a little while, but he’s got a new book out on call, ‘Courageous’. And before we have him on, David, of course, you know, Pastor Jeffers, you’ve spoken in church, I’ve spoken at church a few years back. He kind of became a household name or got some national attention because it came out for President Trump early in that presidential race. But he’s been very outspoken on Christians having a courageous voice and not just cowering down and paying attention to the culture and actually being true salt and light. He’s a great example of that.

David:

Regardless of what you think about his particular personal traits he has or his theology or anything else, maybe you’re not a Southern Baptist, whatever. One thing, he’s got is courage. He has not been ashamed to stand in front of the culture. When he goes on national news networks, he does not back his message down simply because it’s a secular station. And he is not necessarily in your face as a street evangelist might be with only one message that you got to get saved and here’s how. I mean he talks to the things related to culture, whether it be marriage or whether it be sexuality or whether it be something happening with Trump or anything else. He has been very courageous and that actually is a trait that you saw in the early American founding, that the pastors were the ones who had the courage. I mean, that’s why the British blamed them for starting the revolution. The British called the Black Robe Regiment because they wore black robes. And so, when the British arriving in New York City in 1777, there’s 19 churches in town. They burnt 10 of them to the ground and they desecrated the other 9, because it was all pastors they blame everything on.

Jonathan:

What did John Adams say, “The pulpit said thundered?”

David:

The pulpits of thundered. And he talked about how important that was and how that was what prepared America for what was to come. I don’t know that the pulpits have done anything but whimper, by and large today, it’s certainly not been thundering. And so, when you look at the role of courage, I do this with pastors every once in a while, I guess I kind of do this when I want to make a mad at me or whatever. I will ask them, I said, alright, what are the issues over the last 20 years that you think are a danger to God’s people and the culture? And I just asked them to name all those issues.

And maybe something like marriage, you know, when all this stuff with marriage went the wrong way or sexuality or the drag queens in the library now for an hour or what’s happening with sex ed. I mean, it deals with moral issues is generally what they talk about. Sometimes it’s entertainment media, sometimes it’s social media and where that’s gone. So, they’ll name all these things. I say, okay, so these are the things that you think are a danger to the culture and to Christians. I want you to show me the sermons you preached on each of the things you just listed. And I get a blank look back, because they haven’t said anything about those issues. I said, well, Jesus said that a shepherd sees the danger that is coming and goes out and confronts the wolf or whatever it is. He says, the hireling turns and runs. And if you guys aren’t going out and confronting the danger, then you’re a hireling, you’re not a pastor. Because Jesus said, a pastor is one who sees the danger and steps between the danger and the flock. You see all this stuff coming, did you do anything to step between the danger and your flock? And the answer overwhelmingly is no. There’s just a lack of courage in church. Jonathan, we were talking off air on how this is not just in the church, it’s not just the pulpit. This is kind of across the culture and Christians…

Jonathan:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, people just are afraid to be contradicted. They’re afraid to say anything that might be taken the wrong way or might hurt somebody’s feelings. I mean, you can even take that into the classroom, where all of a sudden, more and more schools, they stopped giving grades out to students because it hurts their feelings. You know, the truth is so hard and I felt like that answer was correct and people just don’t have the courage anymore to say even basic fundamental truths, like right, men and women aren’t the same thing anymore or maybe they should use different restrooms. Like, that’s something that now people have to hide their opinions on because they’re afraid to voice that truth in open society, because they’ll be attacked for it.

David:

We really think this, I mean, Pastor Jeffers is a courageous pastor. He’s one of the few I can point to in America that have a backbone and everybody knows that. And so, I think it’s really appropriate that he would come up with this book called Courageous and he’s got some very practical guidance in there on how everyone can become more courageous, which I think is a very needed thing in America today.

Rick:

We’re going to take a quick, Pastor Robert Jeffers is our special guest. We’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.

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This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. In the early 1700s, the Reverend John Weiss preach that all men were created equal, that taxation without representation was tyranny and that God’s preferred form of government was the consent of the government, all of which his language recognizable in the Declaration of Independence. Why? Because in 1772, the Sons of Liberty led by founders such as Sam Adams and John Hancock reprinted and distributed the Reverend Weiss’ sermons. So, four years later, much of the declaration reflected the language of those sermons by John Weiss.

In 1926, on the 150th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, President Calvin Coolidge affirmed, “The thoughts in the Declaration can very largely be traced back to what John Weiss was saying.” Few today know that the Declaration was so strongly influenced by the Reverend John Weiss.

For more information on this and other stories, go to wall builders.com

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today, pastor Robert Jeffers from First Baptist Dallas back with us. Pastor, always good to have you, brother. Thanks for the time today.

Robert:

Great to be with you, Rick, thanks.

Rick:

You are definitely what I would call one of the faith Hall of Fame kind of folks in America today. You’ve been courageous in speaking out in our culture in some incredible ways and just thankful for you. But now, you’ve got a book encouraging others to do the exact same thing and it’s actually called, Courageous. So, what made you decide this was a topic that needed to be covered? You have so many different things that you have to tackle as a pastor of a large church. Why is courage needed in our culture more by Christians?

Robert:

Well, I think CS Lewis answered it best when he described this world as enemy-occupied territory. And you know, if you’re a Christian trying to live out your faith and that’s what you’re in. And we got incoming coming from every direction. We have attacks from a culture that’s increasingly hostile to the things of God, we’re facing attacks from what they end, just our old sin nature that draws us away from God. And if those things weren’t enough, we’ve got attacks from below. We have an adversary, the devil, who’s hell bent on destroying everything important to us. And yet, God’s given us everything we need, not just to survive, but thrive.

And Rick, what I did in the book, ‘Courageous’ was I took the 10 survival tactics that survivalists tell us we need to utilize and threatening situations like a plane crash or an earthquake and things like don’t panic, remember your training, do the next right thing and I applied them to the Christian life. My friend Oliver North read the manuscript and he said, “You know, I’ve taught these same survival tips and tactics to Marines for years and it never occurred to me how they apply to Christians living in this world.”

Rick:

Wow! That’s interesting. Let’s just take that one on panic. I mean, that is often our response to you know, anything negative in the culture or to world affairs, we tend to have this part of us that wants to be doom and gloom and say, oh, you know, it’s all over to you. There’s no way you can have a positive impact, it’s too big, all that kind of stuff. We tend to panic. So, what’s the biblical response to keep us from doing that?

Robert:

Well, you know, I mean, just think about what we’re facing right now, the coronavirus and Christians are absolutely, you know, going nuts over that and so forth. Look, I think about what God said to Joshua. Joshua panicked when he found out he was going to fill Moses sandals; he was going to be the leader. And God came to him and said, do not be fearful, do not be dismayed for I am with you, take courage. And you know, no matter what’s happening in the world at large or what’s happening in our world, we can always claim God’s presence and God’s promises. He said, I’m with you, I will not forsake you.

Rick:

I love it. You mentioned another solution is to, you know, if you feel that panic coming on or you’re facing big challenges in the culture or even just in your own home and what’s going on, is to take inventory. What do you mean by that?

Robert:

Yeah, you know, with every one of these survival tactics, I start the chapter with a real life story of somebody who illustrated that. That particular chapter, I use the story of Apollo 13. You remember the Ron Howard movie? The astronauts were stranded up there, they didn’t have the right air filter to get rid of the carbon dioxide and so they can only use what they had. I think it was a bungee cord, a plastic bag, a couple of old socks. They had to take inventory of their resources. Well, God has left us in this world with a lot more than a bungee cord and some old socks. He’s given us two invaluable resources to face challenges.

I talk about, first of all, the armor of God we know that from Ephesians 6, the breastplate of righteousness, the shield of faith, but then I talk about a second resource we don’t think much about and that is the people of God. God never meant for us to face these struggles, face these challenges alone, he’s given us other Christians which is why local church is so important.

You know, I found, Rick in 40 years of pastoring, Satan loves to isolate Christians and then attack Christians. That’s why Solomon said, two are better than one and a chord of three strands is not easily broken. We need one another.

Rick:

That’s so good. That’s so good. You talk about, you know, not being too quick to celebrate success and cautioning folks to maybe not be, you know, in the highs and lows. What is your real caution on the folks that are, you know, sometimes when things are going well, you think you don’t need to prepare for bad times?

Robert:

Well, that’s right. You know, mountain climbers will tell you the most dangerous part of the expedition is not the ascent to the summit, it’s the descent from the summit. It is after the victory that mountain climbers are more tired, they’re more prone to carelessness, they’re more subject to fall. And Paul said the same thing in First Corinthians 10. He said, therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that lest he fall.

And you know, when we go through a challenge and maybe make it like successfully the other side, we need to remember, there’s probably another challenge waiting for us on the corner, which is why we always need to stay close to God.

Rick:

You know, and that’s as part of the reason I want to encourage people to read the book, not just if you’re going through tough times and you need some courage, that’s a great reason to read it if that’s where you are and the circumstances you face. But if you’re in the good times and you’re in a little bit of a respite right now, where you don’t feel as much of an attack, what a great time to prepare, because the attack is coming. We’re going to face challenges in this world. He told us that would happen. So even if you’re feeling pretty good right now, that’s still a good time to learn how to be courageous. Right?

Robert:

Well, that’s exactly right. And look, you know, thinking culturally, I’m very grateful, as you know for where we are right now as a country, the current administration’s rule, Christian friendly policies, but I think that is just a respite. I do think when the Left regains control of our country, not if, but when they do, there’s going to be an attack against Christians and the church like we’ve never experienced and those attacks are not going to be incremental, they’re going to be intensive.

And one reason I wrote Courageous words to prepare Christians for that time, but what I believe is going to be increased persecution against Christians in our country.

Rick:

Amen. Well, you say that all of these tools and all the training is useless if we don’t have one thing. If Christians don’t have one thing, what is it?

Robert:

Well, it’s that word courage. You know, Jesus was very honest in John 16:33. He said, being a Christian is no guarantee of an exemption from problems. It’s a guarantee of problems. He said, in this world, you will have tribulation. But then he added, take courage for I have overcome the world. And you know, the essence, Rick of courage is obeying God, regardless of the consequences. And when we realize we live our life for an audience of one, that’s what gives us real courage.

Rick:

Amen. Amen. Well, so many good things in here, something for everyone. But I especially look at it from the perspective of, you know, regardless of what station you’re in life right now, what those circumstances are, we’ve got to always be preparing to be resilient when the tough times come. What’s the best place for folks to get the book? Where do you encourage people to go?

Robert:

Easiest and cheapest way right now is amazon.com. Again, the title of the book is Courageous and you can get it there, Barnes and Noble, most Christian bookstores, but online is usually the easiest and cheapest.

Rick:

Alright, brother. Well, there’s tons of great endorsements on and we’re going to have links today at wallbuilderslive.com so people can get easily to the book and pick up a copy of it. But just appreciate your time, Pastor. Thank you for being a leader in our culture. A lot of people have learned so much from the way you teach and the way you articulate truth and it’s been a real blessing.

Robert:

Well, I’m grateful for WallBuilders for standing courageously in these times. Thanks for what you guys do.

Rick:

That’s Robert Jeffers. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

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Hey friends, this Rick Green from WallBuilders Live and I have had so many requests about, what in the world could we be studying at home right now you know I got the kids at home, they’re normally in school? Or if you homeschool, you’re looking for additional material. One-Room Schoolhouse. It is a great new series WallBuilders is putting out where you literally get a tour of the WallBuilders library as Tim Barton and Jonathan Ritchie bring history to life. There’s a couple of resources on this.

You go to YouTube and search for WallBuilders and look for a One-Room Schoolhouse. You can go to our Facebook page and get it right there on Facebook as we do it live each Monday and sometimes additional days from there. And then you can also just go to wallbuilders.com, scroll down to the bottom and we’ll be posting the videos as they come out. This is such a great way to learn and a great way for you to share with others. Gather the family around, watch the One-Room Schoolhouse and learn some great history. It’ll be vitally important to restoring our nation and bringing back these principles that made America great in the first place. Check it out [email protected].

Rick:

We’re back here on WallBuilders live. Thanks for staying with us today back in studio with Jonathan Ritchie and David Barton. Thanks pastor Robert Jeffers for joining us today and very excited about the book. And hopefully, folks will not only get the book, but act on the book. And David, Jonathan, couple things that, you know, just jumped out at me right off the bat, is without a biblical worldview, without a God worldview, it’s easy to get down, it’s easy to not be courageous and he talks about the importance of you got to have a hope and to be able to step out in courage, you got to have hope and knowing that God is real, that he is sovereign, that he does have a plan and that you are responsible to stand firm in this culture.

David:

But there’s also a mindset that goes with it, Rick. You know, I think back, I’ve got two kids that are active duty army and they went through a lot of, I’m going to use the word, cautiously abuse. They went through a lot of physical abuse. They went through a lot of hardship and tearing their body in so many ways to get trained for what was coming.

And the oldest one, deployed three times over in Iraq and he took his guys and he worked them harder than any other NCO because he wanted them to come back alive and he brought them back alive. Didn’t lose a single member of his team. Because when he got to be the Command Sergeant, he just worked the dickens out of them and they all complained about it, but it saved their lives.

And so, one of the things I thought was really interesting and I had not even thought about this, but as pastor Jeffers was going through this, he said, look. Jesus said, in this world, you will have tribulation. It is going to be hard, you are going to be attacked. If you just get that mindset right, if you stop trying to avoid tribulation, you just figure, you know, Jesus said, it’s coming, it’s coming, so let’s get tough with it, let’s step up and learn how to handle this, let’s have more training so that when it comes, I’m not surprised at it. And that’s what happened in wartime, is they had so much training and he worked his guys so much harder than other units and it was because it saved their life.

And so, when you know Jesus said, in this world, you will have tribulation, stop being a wimp, stop backing away. You’re going to get attacked. Get that mindset. You got to be in war. They’re going to shoot bullets at you. They’re going to be real bullets. So, what? Just get trained to handle this stuff. And I think that’s a mindset that helps. So not only do we have a mindset that, you know, there’s a hostile world out there working at us, we have a mindset that, so what? Jesus said this, was got to come, this is part of living. Get used to it.

And the other thing he said that I thought was really significant, he said, you know, you’re going to have attacks from within and without. I mean, Jesus, what got him was the one, Judas on the inside. Now, Judas worked with the guys on the outside to take him down, which, you know, that was still part of God’s plan, he came back from that. But nonetheless, he had the inside traitor.

And I will say, over my career, I’ve had many more attacks from professing Christians than I’ve had from the secular guys, hands down. And then back, Rick, when I was helping run the political party, I mean, the motto that we developed that time was, I don’t need enemies, I’ve got friends. And it was because my friends did a better job of attacking me than my enemies did.

Rick:

Right. Right. Oh, we love you, David. We’re doing this because we love you. Well, didn’t feel like love.

David:

Well, you know, at that time I was helping run a republican party and at that time, we spent more time fighting conservative Republicans than we ever did fight and Democrats, never got in fighting them, because we’re having all the inside fights. So, that’s just part of life and living. Man, that’s the way it goes. You’re going to have Judases around you and you got to prepare for that.

Rick:

Well, David, you have always been in my life a great example, because I get frustrated too easily and think, that shouldn’t be happening. And you’ve always had this even keel of hey, you know, that’s the situation, let’s deal with it. Let’s do what we got to do and move on. And that’s really, I mean, I think that comes from your peace in knowing that you’re grounded biblically and that your Savior is in charge. And I just appreciate the example you’ve set for me and so many other people and having that even keel regardless of how bad the bullets are flying at you.

Jonathan:

Yeah, and I think, Mr. David, you hit the nail on the head, talking about how that’s just a part of living. CS Lewis actually in his Screwtape letters, makes that same exact point. He might have stolen it from you actually

David:

No, he came before me. I might have stolen from him. I don’t remember reading that, but I might have taken it from him.

Jonathan:

I think it’s just one of those universal truths. He says that, you know, maybe it’s one of the reasons why God created a, “Dangerous world with difficulties and obstacles, because in those occasions of danger, all of a sudden, we get to practice that virtue of courage.” Right? God gives us opportunity…

David:

But that was from CS Lewis?

Jonathan:

Yeah.

David:

Oh, wow. That’s cool.

Jonathan:

Yeah, good job. To grow in those, he says, courage and he makes even a further point. He says, courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. And I like that, because oftentimes people think that, well, I have to be on the front lines to be courageous. But no, you can have your virtues and you can practice them courageously. You can be courageously generous, courageously meek, courageously outspoken, like pastor Jeffers is, you know, in standing up for the truth. There’s so many different ways in areas where you can practice that biblical, godly courage of, you know standing up and speaking that truth and protecting those values?

Rick:

Now, it’s such a good point because everybody’s not on quote-unquote, the front lines and even in everybody’s life, there’s some level of the front lines. But sometimes, we do. We dismiss messages like this thinking, well, I’m not in Congress, I’m not, you know, on the battlefield, whatever it might be. But you’re exactly right, Jonathan, there’s a way for every one of us to apply this. Very quick break, guys, we’ll be right back. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

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Hey, friends, it is not too late to join us for the crash course in history and government for all those folks that are schooling from home. Now, that could mean a lot of things. Schooling from home could mean that you’ve been homeschooling your kids from the beginning or it could mean you’ve been thrust into homeschooling as a result of the COVID crackdowns or it could mean you don’t even have kids at home, but you’re still schooling, because we all are still learning every day. Right?

So, really, this program is available for anyone and it’s not too late to join us. Even though we started on May 4, we’re doing every Monday, Wednesday and Friday afternoon throughout May, and you can join at any time and when you join, you will be able to get the recordings of any of the afternoons that you missed. Remember, this is a live opportunity to learn about history and government, to bring those things to life.

And we’re going to have special guests every afternoon, people that have been in our ‘Chasing American Legends program, people from, I mean, Dr. Alveda King, David Barton, Tim Barton, Brad Stein, all kinds of great folks are going to be joining us. You need to be there as well. Go to patriotacademy.com to sign up today. Patriotacademy.com, it’s not too late and you’ll get recordings of any live afternoons that you missed. Get the crash course in history and government at patriotacademy.com.

Rick:

Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Final segment back with Jonathan and David. That just sounds cool when I say with Jonathan David, I feel like I’ve stepped back into the Old Testament.

David:

Hey, I hadn’t even thought about that. Yeah, that’s pretty good…

Jonathan:

So, I’ve never met a David that I didn’t like and I wonder if that’s just like my biblical values coming out and you’re like. Now you’re pushing it, you’re pushing it. But…

David:

Yeah, I might be the final exception to this one. I may break that pattern for you.

Jonathan:

The David that broke the camel’s back.

David:

The straw. Yeah, exactly.

Rick:

So guys, talking about being courageous in ways that people can do that, you know, what would you say to the people out there, you know, they want to make a difference, they’re afraid to act or maybe they don’t know exactly what to do at this time? We only had a couple of minutes, but I mean, any advice for people that want to make a difference, but they’ve never been the one to step out front?

David:

Yeah, here’s what I would say. If you look at David’s mighty men, there’s the 30 and then there was a 3. One of them was really interesting guy. The reason he was chosen was he defended a bean patch. Now, it says, it’s actually lentils is what it is. But he was one of David’s mighty men because he stood there in the middle of a beam patch and defended it and would not let the enemy take it.

Now, that’s not a great, huge military victory. He didn’t take, you know, 1000 square miles; he wasn’t Alexander the Great or he wasn’t Napoleon, whoever. But he stood there and defended that bean patch. And so, it’s like, you know what, I may not have a big influence, I may not have, but I’m going to defend this, even if it’s just my neighbor. I’m going to stand for this, even if it’s on social media. Whatever it is, I’m going to defend my bean patch. I know what I believe, I know my convictions are and you’re not going to talk me out of that. And so, anybody that comes at me, I’m going to stand.

See, one of the things that happens a lot of times is we get silent. We don’t want controversy and so we won’t say what we really believe, I’ll keep it to myself. They can have their opinions, I’ll just keep mine to myself. But sometimes they need to hear that. So, defend your beam patch, defend what you believe, stand for your convictions. You don’t have to be out in front on national TV, do it right where you are. And I think that’s something every one of us can do is stand for our convictions and as David’s mighty men defend that bean patch.

Rick:

Totally agree and everybody is got a role to play. Every citizen has something they can do to help preserve freedom here in our country. Check out wallbuilderslive.com today to find all kinds of ways that you can be a part of it, share the videos, share the radio program, share all the different opportunities we have to get people educated, equipped and inspired to do their part as citizens.

And don’t forget today, May 4th is your first opportunity to join us in the crash course on history and government and you can sign up for that today. Even if you missed today’s live program on the crash course, we’ll have a recording available for you and the next live class will be on Wednesday, every Monday, Wednesday, Friday in May, become a part of it. Go to patriotacademy.com to learn more. Thanks so much for listening to WallBuilders Live.