Culture Change – Being A Christian In This World Part One: We get to share another presentation from the Pro-Family Legislators Conference this week! Lance Wallnau is with us and he is discussing how we can change the culture. Tune in now to learn more!

Air Date: 12/03/2018

Guest: Lance Wallnau

On-air Personalities: Rick Green


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. We always do that from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

You can find out more about our program at where you find a list of our stations, you can also get archives of the program from the last few weeks, lots of great information in those programs, some great interviews. There’s also our Foundations of Freedom Thursday’s programs and our Good News Friday programs. Just a lot of great content there. If you’ve missed the last few weeks be sure and visit for those latest programs.

Then you can also go to So, two different websites is the radio website. And then, our main website, that’s where you can find out about the entire ministry, all the different programs we’re involved in training pastors, taking pastors to Washington D.C. for our Pastors Briefing,  training young people through Patriot Academy and our intern program at WallBuilders, all the different things that we’re doing.

The education programs, the curriculum, the things you can use in your Sunday school programs, in your home. All kinds of tools to equip and inspire you to be able to make a difference in the culture around you. That means in your neighborhood, your state, our nation. We all have a role to play and we’ve got all kinds of ways for you to get plugged in right there at

One of the things you can do that super easy to do and makes a big difference is contribute to this program and make it possible for us to spread this good news all across the nation. When you go to and you do a one time donation, or maybe a monthly donation, it helps us continue to spread this good news, it helps us to do that equipping and inspiring that WallBuilders does so well. So, check all that out at

A Special Couple of Days


We’ve got a special couple of days here for you. We’ve had the chance to share a few of the programs from our legislators conference. Now, real quick, what that is is an opportunity for state reps and state senators from all over the nation to come together and sharpen each other’s countenance. That iron sharpening iron idea where they come together and they share ideas.

We have great speakers that come in and share with them throughout the weekend. We also have a great time of fellowship, and worship, and teaching. It’s just a great weekend. We call it a Pro-Family Legislators Conference and if your state legislator has not been, I highly encourage you to have them go check out, that’s the website,, and let them learn about this conference and hopefully come next year when we do it again.

But we do this every year in Dallas Fort Worth and hundreds of state reps and senators come together from across the country. And the speakers are just outstanding. The learning is off the charts and we like to try to share that with you, our listeners, here on WallBuilders Live as much as possible. So, we pick some of the best presentations from throughout the weekend and share those with you. We had Rabbi Lapin once again this year and we’ve already shared his presentation a week or so ago.

So, this week we want to share– Lance Wallnau was with us this year at the Pro-Family Legislators Conference. First chance we’ve had to have Lance at the conference, and have a chance to hear from him, and it was fantastic. It’s a great presentation on changing the culture and we want to bring that to you, our WallBuilders listeners. So, we’re going to dive right into that. It’s going to be three programs.

So, today, tomorrow, and the next day we’ll have all that available on our website at But let’s get the first part today. Here we are at the WallBuilders Pro-Family Legislators Conference with Lance Wallnau.

A Radical Conversion

Lance Wallnau:

How many of you have never heard me before? Let me just see. Well, there you go. That’s what keeps me humble in life.

You probably know who he is, but you actually don’t. So, my background is in business. I was actually in Babylon. I was working, literally, in Babylon, Long Island which is where I came from. And we were in the oil business – acquisitions, mergers, business. My dad raised me to go into the business realm. That’s generally good. We had a company in the Fortune 500 and he was a vice president.

But it’s one of those deals where I get radically converted by a campus crusader who I was actually kicking off a campus. And I was in a military academy. My dad felt I needed a little more discipline, so he sends me to a military school. And I go to a– I find an evangelist gets on the campus and I go to kick him off because somehow he got past guards. I said, “How did you get on here? We have guards.” He goes, “I just walked on.” Later on I thought, “Those guards must have been blind. The guy walks right past him to my barracks.”

So, I go to kick him off, but before I could kick him off I said, “Wait a second. It’s snowing.” It’s Valley Forge, it’s winter, six inches snow. I said, “Why would you do this? I know why I’m stuck here, I can’t get out. But why would you want to break into a prison? So, are you a fanatic?” And I looked at his four spiritual laws he has, and I’m reading them, and I’m thinking, “Huh, this is kind of interesting. This is a real zealot.” I had never met a real zealot. I grew up Episcopalian.

So, anyway, so while I’m talking to him it’s winter his poor friend had no one talking to him and my– I knew this was going to happen– guys are a little bit animals, they start packing snowballs, they start throwing them, this guy’s getting pummeled. But this one here he’s going to put up with it because this one here has a live fish, he’s working with somebody.

For 2,000 Years

Lance Wallnau:

So, I said, “Look, your buddy’s getting hurt over there, you need to get out. It’s going to get out of control pretty quick. It’s a military school, man.” So, at that moment off the second story window, and I remember this, Frank Fermonte’s room. It seemed like anyone on the– most of the kids were just career professional military people putting their kids through. Like my dad was a second World War Major Colonel type stuff.

But there are some kids that are just juveniles. It seems like all the demonized kids showed up in the same location at the same time. And they all went to that barracks and they couldn’t wait to do something to discuss, so they took a bucket of water– not a bucket-a garbage can of water, and they poured it out. And they poured it out and I jumped back and my poor evangelists were soaking wet, and the snow’s coming down, and it’s dark, and it’s like 9:00 at night, and it’s freezing, and he’s dripping wet.

I’m looking at him going, “Hey, this is why you gotta get out of here now.” And the kid looks at me and he says, “For 2000 years we’ve been stoned, drowned, burned alive, crucified, so this is nothing. I’m certainly willing to put up with this if you’re interested in talking.” Now, that was the moment I met a Christian. And I stepped back and I looked at him and I thought, “We go here for three years to learn from the best leadership trainers, these kids going to West Point, Annapolis.” I thought, “This guy has more leadership, and integrity, and conviction, and courage, and he’s got a good motive here. And I actually started to get convicted being around him.

Front Sight Training Course

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In That Moment

Lance Wallnau:

So, I said, “Look, man, you’re obviously good fanatic. I need to get you out of here.” And I said– he just shows me one more thing. The one more thing is– if you know the four spiritual laws, he’s going to pray with me. And he says, “Let’s pray.” I go, “Pray? Here?” I didn’t disagree with praying. I disagreed with praying in front of these guys. And he said, “Yeah.”

Now, that was the moment– being raised Episcopalian, I thought I was a Christian. I just thought I was a rational Christian and this guy was a zealot. In that moment, I looked up at them, I looked at him soaking wet staring at me, and I knew I was embarrassed to be associated with Jesus. The fact that I would be embarrassed to pray in front of my peers convicted me that I really wasn’t a Christian after all. The strange kind of psychology going on there.

So, I look at him and I go, “Alright, let’s do it.” So, I’m praying. I got like half the prayer done and I look up, it’s like I froze and I went back and prayed the rest of it. Now, when I got finished, something happened to me. It’s like you could say– some people when they say they got born again, they got born again, it was a Billy Graham altar call or something.

But I had like a substance thing. I’ve literally, something went * like that and I could feel this heat go through me which is, * like that because it’s freezing cold out there, in– down here, not up here. And I step back, I go, “Oh, what was that?” He said– I’ll never forget these words– “Jesus just came into your heart.” “Like, oh my *, you’re telling me it’s an actual thing?!” I always thought it sounds like, you know, in your heart you love your country, in your heart you love your wife, but it’s like, it’s not like there’s some kind of a substance transaction.

I go, “Something just happened!” He goes, “Yeah, yeah. Jesus just came into your heart.” Like, “Oh, this is crazy. This is going– this whole night is going crazy for me.” And he goes, “You’re just beginning now. I’ve really got to come back here and I need to help you because you’re just starting. This is step one. So, I’m going to come back and teach–” I go, “You have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s a miracle you ever got here. It’s a miracle we talked this long. It would be a miracle if I ever see you again.”

The Power of an Encounter

Lance Wallnau:

At that point military police came on, grabbed him and as his poor pummeled looked like a snowman by now, snowballs hitting this poor guy next to him, probably interceding for me, and the military police dragged them off the campus. The one thing I did was I grabbed the four spiritual laws track out of his hand before he got snatched up. And to this day I travel the world, I’ve got hundreds of thousands of people in my own network. I’ve gone, I haven’t even met the guy. Get this guy leads me to Jesus and goes out of my life and I’ve never seen him since then. The power of an encounter in a moment with someone who’s a courageous witness for the truth when God is in it.

Now, what I thought was the only time that happens is when you’re having an evangelism encounter which is why ever since then when I went back into business, I went back into Long Island, New York where our corporate headquarters was, in Babylon off, ironically, the Jericho Turnpike, that’s where the office was located. And I’m reading the Bible and it says like, about Babylon, “Come out of her my people.” And I’m feeling really convicted because my aspiration was making money and I’m thinking, “I’ve got to give myself to a higher cause than this.” So, I thought, “I really need to get myself to evangelism.”

So, off I went to start working with nonprofits, churches, and ministries in order to help the church do its mission to change the world. Now, that inevitably got me involved people like you. Because I spent years under the premise that strong vibrant Christian culture is– and you heard the rabbi say this– strong vibrant Christian culture is at the core of preserving the institutions that make the American experiment unique. But I thought if the church was just stronger, and bigger, and revived, that it automatically becomes like the cure all.

Time for a Paradigm Review

Lance Wallnau:

I want to suggest to you – most mega churches are thinking the same thing and it’s a delusion. I could take you to the top cities in the United States where the top– where the highest concentration of Christians are you will see that Christians are not dominating the culture. They dominate the buildings called mega churches.

So, what I began to realize is that maybe I needed to review that paradigm I was working with. Because I didn’t want to give my life to just building strong churches and trying to evangelize and watch culture go progressively in the wrong direction. But to a great degree, for those of you that know about evangelical theology and those that influence, the eschatology, the idea about what’s the purpose and trajectory of the church is where things get screwed up.

Because I was a church growth consultant when I went into consulting and we knew how to build churches, we knew how to make them successful. What we didn’t know was how culture is actually shaped outside of a church. And the idea started to gnaw on me that the mission of the church is to go make disciples of nations. This will overlap with you very quickly to go into all the world and make disciples of nations. Jesus understood better than anyone else that whoever is dominating the learning process, the worldview, of a culture is going to shape the culture. And that culture can be shaped in ways that are favorable to the extension of the Kingdom of God are directly hostile to its advancement.

So, let’s take a look, for a moment, of how this actually works. Because then I started looking at works of Francis Schaeffer and various other writers and I saw that there’s spheres of influence. And then I had a real “aha”. I realized that it wasn’t just secular and sacred callings. Because I felt like anyone who wasn’t really in ministry was in a secular calling.

And I started realizing that actually God raises up Wilberforce’s, and God raises up businessmen, and God raises up philanthropists. That actually, God is a God of business, and the God of arts, and the God of literature, and the God of legislation, the God– He’s a much bigger God than just the God of revival and going to heaven when you die.

This Precarious Moment Book


This is David Barton. I want to let about a brand new book we have called This Precarious Moment, Six Urgent Steps That Will Save You, Your family, and Our Country. Jim Garlow and I have co-authored this book and we take six issues that are hot in the culture right now.

Issues that we’re dealing with, issues such as immigration, race relations, our relationship with Israel, the rising generation Millennials, and the absence of the church in the culture wars, and where American heritage is, our godly heritage. We look at all six of those issues right now that are under attack and we give you both Biblical and historical perspective on those issues that provide solutions on what each of us can do right now to make a difference.

These are all problems that are solvable if we’ll get involved. So you can grab the book This Precarious Moment and find out what you can do to make a difference. This Precarious Moment is available at

Lance Wallnau:

And then I started thinking, “Wait a second, I’ve really got to look at this thing differently. And it was while I was at Kelowna, British Columbia, I was invited to speak at the UN of all things. Which, I really didn’t want to do because, to me, to a real hyper evangelical type, the United Nations looks like the Antichrist Trojan Horse.

But there were billionaire guys, there were wealthy guys I coached who sneakily put me in as a speaker for some of their events. So, I got forced to examine what the United Nations does, what the NGO world does.

Here’s the point – when I’m there with Lauren Cunningham from Youth With a Mission, hanging out with him while I’m doing this U.N. stuff, he said, “Lance, did I ever tell you about the time Bill Bright and I met?” He said, “One day I just got this download from heaven that the kingdom, that the way to disciple nations, is to recognize the spheres or the mind moulders that shape the worldview of nations.” He said, “And there’s seven.”

Mind Moulders

Lance Wallnau:

So, he listed them for me. I’m sorry if some of you can’t see this, but we’ll just real quick. Because if you can do this on a napkin you’ve got a very complex subject. And I’m the guy that created this picture because I actually had to draw it on a napkin so that I can understand what he was talking about. And he called them mind moulders. But I remember that Jesus went up into a high mountain and the devil showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. Oh, sure, I’d appreciate that.

But anyway, Cunningham says to me these are mind moulders of culture, these seven institutional verticals actually shape and disciple nations. I don’t care whether they’re a Buddhist nation, Islamic nation, or universal. And he said religion is the first one. And he said family is a mind molder because your parents are directly going to be able to shape the mind and world. The Jewish people for instance are only two and a half percent of the American population, but how do they maintain their distinctiveness in all places? Because the family has its traditions and its traditions tied into Hebrew school create an identity for the Jewish people education or academia.

Then there’s the realm of government, and the laws, and the military. I’ll put those things there. And then there’s this mischief media which is the interpretation of reality – arts, the suspension of reality for the purpose of entertainment. That’s how I draw the distinction between media and arts. And then there’s economics which, of course, is business – big, and small, and banking. Those seven determine the nation, the business or economic sphere, funds the strength of a nation in its particular spheres.

And I encourage you to take a look at our current society and see if these are not the seven domains that we’re fighting with. This ubiquitous battle we’re having with this octopus-like takeover of the American mind is because these seven arenas have all been intelligently directed and manipulated.

A Bible Lense

Lance Wallnau:

So, Satan comes to Jesus and he offers them all the “kingdoms”. I started looking at this in the Bible, I said, “Let me get this through a Bible lense – “kingdoms” means there’s more than one.” I’m always talking about the Kingdom of God. Well, there’s “kingdoms” of this world. I say there’s spheres of domain, there are domains of influence.

So, Satan shows Him all the kingdoms– Jesus all the kingdoms of this world in a moment of time. And he says, “All this has been given to me”– interesting statement, “given to me”, it wasn’t his in the first place– “I give it to whom I will.” Oh, what do we have here. We have, individuals have, influence over those kingdoms. Or the Bible would say kings have influence over those kingdoms.

So, the devil goes, he shows Him all the kingdoms in a moments time and says, “All this I will give to you if you will bow down and worship me. For I give it to whomever I will.” Matthew’s Gospel says and he shows them all the kingdoms and the glory of them. That’s an interesting addition because each kingdom has a unique capacity to exhibit its own glory. The glory of arts is in the production – the movie, the theme, the artwork, the building. The glory of government is in its virtue, its righteousness, its strength. Also, the glory of education is in wisdom if it’s properly acquired and used. So, you can see there’s a glory in each of these domains.

But anyway, I started thinking, kings, well, where are the kings? Then it came together. Now, Lauren Cunningham says, “Lance, these seven domains, these seven mind moulders,” he called it, he said, “But did I ever tell you about the campus crusade experience. And I thought, “Campus Crusade, that’s what happened to me. What about campus crusade?” He said, “Well,” he said, “we’re charismatic in our group and I’ve got the largest youth group in the world for charismatics. The Evangelicals aren’t Pentecostally incline, so it’s a bit awkward over the Earth because the biggest youth group in the evangelical community is Campus Crusade for Christ.”

He said, “Now, the Campus Crusaders and us always get along, but we’re two different streams.” A donor– remember this– a donor who funded both of us called us and said, “You guys really need to get together.” And we said “sure”. But he actually started tracking our schedules and he said, “I was in Colorado getting away for a week camping out.”

And Bill Bright happened to have been in Colorado, he called us both, told us where to meet, and he said, and actually, it was a forest ranger comes down with a note to my tent says, “You’re supposed to meet Bill Bright at this place at this time. But a donor can do that to you. He reluctantly meets with Bill Bright hoping they’re gonna get along. They sit down and Lauren said, “Just the other night I had the strangest thing”, and he pulls out of his pocket, “I got these seven mind moulders of culture.” Honestly though, life, like the Lord said, we could disciple nations if we could discipled these domains.

Moment From American History.

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. American Patriot Paul Revere road to alert Americans of the impending arrival of the British. But he also sought patriot leader Samuel Adams and John Hancock to warn them that the British were seeking their execution.

Adams and Hancock were staying with the Reverend Jonas Clark in Lexington. When they asked Pastor Clark if his church was ready for the approaching British he replied, “I’ve trained them for this very hour. They will fight and, if need be, die under the shadow of the house of God.”

Later that morning 70 men from his church, and several hundred British in the first battle of the War for Independence. As Pastor Clark affirmed, “The militia that morning were the same who filled the pews of the church meeting house on the Sunday morning before.”

The American church was regularly at the forefront of the fight for liberty. For more information on this pastor and other Colonial Patriots go to

Lance Wallnau:

So, he says, “Religion, family, education, government, media, arts, and business.” Shocked. Bill Bright pulls out of his pocket something he’s been working on for a couple of weeks. He called them seven world kingdoms based on the word “kingdoms”. And they had to do with faith, family, academia, politics, news, entertainment, and economics. And they were–both of them had the same list.

Here’s What You Need to Know

Lance Wallnau:

When Lauren told me that I immediately started thinking about the mountains. Because mountains represent hierarchies and here’s what you got to know about these things- There’s two or three places on a mountain, but I’m going to draw this. This is the Chinese symbol for “gate”. Since we’re going to see China more and more in the future I thought I’d get familiar with the gates of hell look like in China.

So, at the top of every vertical is a remnant. The remnant are the kings that rule the decision making within that domain. Remember this – “I give it to whom I will.” Satan is very interested in who has influence. And that’s why Supreme Court decisions and presidential elections have such consequence because somehow that real estate on the Monopoly board is like Boardwalk and Park Place. It’s got the most value.

I started looking at this because where I came from I had this theory that all of this stuff here was the world and the church was to keep itself separated, and grow this sap sucker to massive influence, and suck everyone into the vortex of the revived culture. And to that end I was church growth oriented. Revival – reading from Finley, to Wesley, to Whitefield. I was a student, I used to go to Princeton Speare Library Theological Seminary. I read all the original works in the basement.

Culture Change – Being A Christian In This World Part One


Alright, friends, we’ve got to interrupt Lance for a moment, or actually, for a day because we’re going to be back tomorrow. We’ll pick up right where we left off. That was the Pro-Family Legislators Conference, Lance Wallnau speaking to the legislators there. And we have the second and third parts of that presentation coming up tomorrow and the next day. Sorry we’re out of time for today, but we sure appreciate you listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.