Culture Change – Four Keys to Changing Your Life & The Nation: Pastor Mike Hayes is with us talking about his new book that”€™s out. His book is a reflection of the lessons he has learned broken down into ways we can easily take action to influence the culture around us. Tune in now to find out more!

Air Date: 12/17/2018

Guest: Mike Hayes

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. We always look at those topics from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. Tim Barton”€™s with us – national speaker and pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator.

Check us out at WallBuildersLive.com for more information and also archives of the program. And then WallBuilders.com for some fantastic tools for you and your family, some educational tools they’ll inspire you. There’s a lot of great information there and you can start with some of the books, but there’s also DVDs and curriculum’s. All can be part of your home education, it can be part of your Sunday school class, however you want to apply. Believe me, it will help you and inspire you, and it”€™ll get other people excited about being good citizens.

The other thing you can do right there at WallBuilders.com is make a contribution to the program. We are a listener supported program and it helps us not only do the radio program and spread it across the country, but with our briefings in D.C. for pastors, our legislators training, our training of young people, all the different things we’re doing. It’s all to help rebuild the walls, literally restore the foundations of America, so that we can preserve this constitutional republic. And your help is what makes it happen.

So, please consider it as an end of year gift or perhaps look at us for the next year doing a monthly donation. You can do all that at WallBuilders.com or WallBuildersLive.com.

Guys, we”€™ve got pastor Mike Hayes back with us today on the program later when we get to that. But he’s actually a longtime pastor there in the Dallas area. Actually, Kara and I used to go to his church many years ago when we lived in the Dallas area. Now there’s multiple campuses for Covenant. But he’s now got an initiative that we’ve had him on the program to talk about in Washington about renewing America, getting pastors to learn these things and go to D.C..

But he has a new book that’s not just for pastors. It’s for all of us literally about some great principles on how we can renew our country.

A Good Perspective

David:

Yeah, he really does have a good perspective on it. In the Fort Worth Dallas area he had a great racially diverse church. He just talked to Christians period. It didn’t matter what color you were or what background you were. And it’s a very mature church. His folks, they grew, he had them in God’s word in a very practical way – not just the superficial stuff, but took them on deep dives. So, it really is a very sound church and he’s a very sound pastor. And now he is in Washington D.C. trying to deal with the situation there.

And that is an area, what he’s doing there, and dealing with influencers, and those who come in trying to help them influence the culture. That’s an area where the church and many Christians have flat backed away and just said, “€œI’m going to be involved in my church, in my family, in my home, whatever, but I don’t want to get involved in this kind of politics stuff or whatever. And it”€™s really not politics. It just, it’s the culture. It’s another aspect of the culture.

So, he’s done a good job of creating a very sound ministry. He has now turned that largely over to his son who does a great job with it and he’s now focused on that aspect in Washington D.C.. And, by the way, it’s great for churches and pastors. If you want to you can take your congregation up there to where they are and they will do two and three day tours of the city and show you things that just will blow your mind. Things you have not known about about the history or even about what you can do to make a real difference.

So, they’ve got they’ve got great stuff going and this new book that he”€™s got out is simply a reflection of the lessons he’s learned and he’s broken them down into very usable bite size pieces that every one of us can apply to make a difference where we are.

Rick:

Mike Hayes, our special guest. We’ll be right back with Mike. Stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live!

This Precarious Moment Book

David:

This is David Barton. I want to let about a brand new book we have called This Precarious Moment, Six Urgent Steps That Will Save You, Your family, and Our Country. Jim Garlow and I have co-authored this book and we take six issues that are hot in the culture right now.

Issues that we’re dealing with, issues such as immigration, race relations, our relationship with Israel, the rising generation Millennials, and the absence of the church in the culture wars, and where American heritage is, our godly heritage. We look at all six of those issues right now that are under attack and we give you both Biblical and historical perspective on those issues that provide solutions on what each of us can do right now to make a difference.

These are all problems that are solvable if we’ll get involved. So you can grab the book This Precarious Moment and find out what you can do to make a difference. This Precarious Moment is available at WallBuilders.com.

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Pastor Mike Hayes back with us. Always good to have you, sir, and excited about your new book. Folks at home, you”€™ve got to check out his website and his book. And those of you in Dallas, especially in Carrollton, you”€™ve got to check out Covenant Church. Pastor Mike, always good to have you, brother.

Mike Hayes:

Thank you, Rick. It’s good to be on today. Beautiful day in North Texas.

Rick:

It is, it is. Renewal: 4 Ways to Change Your Life – and Our Nation. This has been on your heart, I know, for a long time. Every time we’ve talked I can just hear the concern in your voice about where the nation’s going. You see us tearing each other apart and you”€™ve addressed that in this book with some actual biblical answers we can apply.

The Four Legs of the Stool

Mike Hayes:

Yeah, the book is really built on what what has become the four legs of the stool, if you will, at the Center for National Renewal that we opened in D.C.. And that’s what I address in the book, those four principles that I think have the power to change us personally and then change our whole nation.

Rick:

Yeah, and I love this approach too, by the way, because most books and things today it’s it’s either all about policy and change in the nation or all about just yourself. And here you’re saying, “€œLook, it starts with us, but those same principles apply to the nation itself. And you list four of them – intercession, reconciliation, education, and influence. Give us a little teaser on each of those. And also, actually, before we dive into the details, who would you say this book is for? Is this a book that you’ve written for pastors and leaders or for all of us?

Mike Hayes:

Well, absolutely for all of us. And interesting backstory, Rick, when I was finishing this manuscript I was meeting with some publishers and people working with me on distributing the book. So, we were meeting at the Center for National Renewal in D.C. and they said, “€œMike, we love the book, we want to do the book, help you distribute the book, but you’ve got to change the title.”€ Because the title originally was “€œRenewal: Four Ways to Change the Heart of Our Nation”€.

And I said, “€œWhat needs to change?”€ They said, “€œWell, we’re sorry to say this, but it’s just the reality. If you want to sell books you need to adjust the title to include something personal because the average person doesn’t care about changing the nation. They’re not going to buy the book because it’s going to change the nation. They want to know what is this going to do for me personally.”€

And I’m like, really? We’re that narcissistic that it has to be all about us?

Rick:

Right. Right.

Not the Nation, but the People in the Nation

Mike Hayes:

So, we had a bit of a discussion. But after I slept on it, Rick, I don’t know, maybe the Lord helped me get some balance on it because what I actually begin to see is even though I think they were coming from a different place in sharing that with me for a different reason. Which was, in their minds, to sell books. And they”€™re in the book selling business, I’m not blaming them.

But I had a realization overnight and I went back when we met the next day and I said, “€œWe’re going to adjust this because I don’t think we are going to change the nation if we don’t change the people in the nation one at a time.”€

Rick:

That”€™s right.

Mike Hayes:

We”€™re going to have to change our own minds, our own hearts. And Peter said in Acts Chapter 3 to repent and God would send seasons of refreshing. And that word “€œmetanoia”€ for repent means “€œchange your mindset”€. You’re going to have to change some things about the way you think and then I’ll send a season of refreshing or revival, if you will, or reformation, or renewal, to our nation. So, that’s that’s where that came about.

Rick:

And Mike, I can’t tell you that that actually is so much more tangible. To most people,  they look at what’s happening in D.C., or even in their own community, or state, and they say it’s too big, it’s too far gone, or whatever excuse–

Mike Hayes:

Yeah, yeah.

You Start With Your Place at the Wall

Rick:

–“€œI can’t make a difference.”€ And the way you’re presenting this is, “€œLook, you can because you start with you, you start with your family, you start with your place at the wall.”€

Mike Hayes:

Absolutely.

Rick:

So, it does become a whole lot more possible in people’s minds to do this. Let’s run through them. Give us a little bit on how you came down to these four. Because this wasn’t something you just came up with today. This is four decades of ministry–

Mike Hayes:

Right, right.

Rick:

–and seeing what changes lives.

Mike Hayes:

Well, the first one– and I’ll just give a little word on the four, Rick. The first one is intersession which is really the deepest level of prayer. And the reason for that is because everyone prays to some degree – even people who don’t believe. They’re going to get themselves in a situation or someone they love and they’re open to prayer. But it’s a self centered prayer, if you will, “€œGod help me with this”€, or “€œSave my child from that”€, or whatever. And that’s wonderful and God does that.

But a deeper level of prayer is intercession which literally means to stand in someone else’s shoes on their behalf and pray for them. And one of the things in this vitriolic era that we’re living in, Rick, that I’ve realized is it’s really impossible for me to hate anybody that I’m really praying for. You just can’t do it if you are standing in for them, holding them up before God, and praying for their lives no matter what they’re involved in or what their opinions are. You just can’t hate them when you’re praying for them. It melts away.

Rick:

That”€™s good.

Three Greatest Prejudices

Mike Hayes:

So, intersession is a deep level of prayer which means “€œI’ll stand in for you and pray for you on your behalf.”€

Rick:

So good.

Mike Hayes:

Sometimes even to my own detriment I’ve certainly got things that I need in my own life to pray about, but I’m going to pray for you. God honors that.

Rick:

Yeah.

Mike Hayes:

And the second thing is reconciliation. And it centers somewhat on racial, but it’s really all kinds of reconciliation. The apostle Paul said in the kingdom there is neither Jews nor Greek, bond or free, male or female. So, he really touched on the three greatest prejudices that were then in the world and they probably still are the greatest three today.

Jew or Greek had to do with racial prejudice. Bond or free had to do with those who were owners and those who were slaves. So, the rich or the poor, we would say. And then male or female. So, God said, “€œI’m going to open a new era here and I’m going to reconcile brokenness. I”€™m going to reconcile brokenness from the two different sides of wherever you’re coming from.

So, for me that portion of the book, Rick, became, frankly, very personal because of my own journey and God’s healing of me in my life.

Rick:

Wow, wow.

Learning the Next Level

Mike Hayes:

I came to something that I touch on in the book which is that the first thing that happened for me is I was somewhat affected, maybe even scarred, some would say, by my upbringing, and it was dangerous. And the reason is because my family was not made up of hate filled people who were mean and angry racist, but they were Christians. They went to church every Sunday, they loved Jesus, but in our home it was sort of a closed door thing. Every joke was told at the expense of some race, and racial epitaphs were common, the use of all of that, and then I began to see the ugliness of that. And I was raised that way, I was involved in it. I was not separate from it.

But then God began to break my heart and to show me the wrong in that. And eventually, as I tell in the book, I confronted my late grandfather who was the real patriarch of our family and really where all that emanated from. And I tell the story in the book about what I learned that so broke my heart and changed me when I talked with my grandfather and learned why and what the roots were of his feelings. Because I knew that he was not a hateful man and I couldn’t understand why he’d been a Christian for half a century and still had this kind of thing manifesting life.

So, then when I got healed personally of that division and racism thing, Rick, I thought for years that that was enough to be healed of it. But then I realized that not hating is not enough, but being a healer is the next level. And I think personally that’s where hundreds of thousands of Christians are in America is that they”€™re good people and their testimony would be “€œI don’t hate anybody, so I don’t really know what the problem is. This isn’t a personal challenge or need in my life because I don’t hate anybody from another race.”€

But, Rick, here’s the thing, if we’re going to fix this– because the apostle Paul said that there is given to us in, 2 Corinthians 5, there”€™s given to us the ministry of reconciliation. And then in the next verse he says, “€œAnd we have the word of reconciliation.”€ So, if we’re going to be healers of this issue in our nation then just us not being a hater is not enough. We have to be a healer. And that’s the next step.

Making It Personal

Rick:

So, good and so powerful. And in the end to make it personal – so many of us can relate to that upbringing and the need to not just be different in the way that we’ve raised our kids in our particular family, but to actually step out and be a healer. In fact, it”€™s one of the reasons that Martin Luther King Jr.”€™s daughter has endorsed your book.

Mike Hayes:

Yeah.

Rick:

So just so needed in our country right now and a very, very, important part of it. Man, I wish we had more time. Real quick, give me a little word on education and influence.

Mike Hayes:

Okay. The education component is that I started– when God called us to go to D.C. and have an influence at pastors conferences and leaders meetings I would speak at, I started taking a show of hands – “€œHow many of you have never been to the nation’s capital?”€ And I was shocked to learn that every audience at least 50 percent raised their hand. They had never been.

So, I realized that, why is it important to be there, and to set foot there, and walk there? Well, because God has promised us that everywhere the soul of our foot walks that He’ll give us that territory. And it’s not a takeover mentality, but it is an influence mentality, Rick. And I believe that God has called us in the body of Christ to be a positive influence. We get that from the Apostle Paul. When he was converted– and I’ll just finish quickly with this, Rick.

Rick:

No problem.

Influence Missions

Mike Hayes:

When Paul was converted in Acts Chapter 9 on the road to Damascus and it was prophesied over his life God said, “€œI’ll send you as an apostle to the Gentiles.”€ And He said this, “€œI’ll send you to Gentile nations, kings, and the house of Israel.”€ Well, you can read, that I read it for years and missed this– gentile nations is a national identity as is Israel. Israel was a nation.

But right in the middle of that God said, “€œI’ve sent you to kings which is a lowercase “€œk”€. It wasn’t a specific king, it was an office of influence in the world that God sent Paul and Paul sends us vicariously because through the Scripture he teaches us the importance of this. Paul built 14 churches in the time of his ministry and none of them were at the end of a pig trail somewhere in a small village. Everywhere Paul went were the world’s leading cities where the seats of government were.

So, when Paul went to Rome he arrived as a prisoner and four years later he writes to the church at Thessalonica and says, “€œAll the saints in Rome send their greetings – especially Caesar’s family.”€

Rick:

Wow.

Mike Hayes:

Wait a minute, here’s a man who arrived in Rome as a prisoner. But because of the influence mission he was on he ends up converting, discipling, and pastorying, the most powerful man in the then known world”€™s family that had been won to Christ.

So, we were called to influence at the highest levels. That”€™s influence missions.

Rick:

Amen. Amen. So key, so key. And, Mike, for pa– we have a lot of pastors that listen across the country. The ones that would like to be a part of that, that would like to come, they would like to do some of the things with you that you’re doing with Renewal, is that Center for National Renewal website the best place for them to go? CFNR.org?

The Center for National Renewal

Mike Hayes:

It is.

Rick:

Nice.

Mike Hayes:

And we do, Rick, is we’ve started organizing and we will host a beautiful tour for a pastor that wants to bring leaders from his church or the city. We do a three day tour in depth. In fact, David has done one of the Capitol tours for us where we take them through the Capitol, we have a White House briefing, we go to the Supreme Court and we also just have a lot of fun. But we pray over the executive, the legislative, and the judicial, branch of government. And everyone that goes through this three days has changed and they go back home different.

George Barna says the reason that 95 percent of the pastors in America never address issues that involve our nation is not because they’re afraid of losing members, but because they don’t know what to say.

Rick:

Yeah.

Mike Hayes:

That was the overwhelming answer was. So, I’m like, well, we can do something about that.

Rick:

Yeah.

Mike Hayes:

So, that’s the education component and then it ties into finally the fourth one is influence.

Rick:

So powerful. So powerful, brother. Man, so glad you did this. So glad you’re doing what you’re doing in D.C. and we definitely want to help spread the word. I encourage our listeners to actually share this program with their friends and family so that they can get involved in this renewal as well. Pastor, Mike Hayes, always a pleasure, brother. Appreciate your time. God bless you.

Mike Hayes:

Rick, listen, you, and David, and the whole team, a Merry Christmas to you. In my opinion you guys are one of the most valuable ministries in the nation. You’re a national treasure. We love you. We pray for you every day.

Rick:

Well, right back at you. God bless you, man. Merry Christmas.

Mike Hayes:

Thank you, sir.

Rick:

Stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Join Us In Israel!

Hey guys what are you doing January 28th through February 7th? If you said you don’t know, let me give you an idea. We are going to Israel. Rick Green, my dad, David Barton, Tim Barton, our families are going and we would love for you to go with us. We are going to the Holy Land if you’ve ever been to Israel this is something as a Christian that will make you forever read your bible differently.

To see where Jesus walked, where He lived, where He did miracles, where so much of the Bible took place. If you’ve ever read through the Bible and you’ve given it a mental picture, the mental picture will not do justice of what happens when you’re actually on the ground. If you’ve ever thought about the story of David and Goliath and you”€™ve envisioned what it looks like, we’re going to go to the actual field where it took place.

There are so many things that you will see that literally makes the Bible come to life. In fact, that’s the name of the tour group we”€™re going with is The Bible Comes to Life. Go to CMJacksboro.com. You can click on the link, it has an Israel itinerary, all kinds of details. Hope to see you on this trip this coming year.

Renewal Individually and Nationally

Rick:

We”€™re back on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Special thanks to pastor Mike Hayes for joining us as well. We’re back with David and Tim Barton.

And, guys, man, really good principles and I do want to mention before we go too far the one we didn’t get to dive in, have time to dive in much too is on the education side. And he actually goes into founding principles and talks about what made the country great in the first place and the need to restore that as well. But all four principles, just fantastic, a great way to renew individually and nationally.

David:

Well, I thought the book publisher really set the tone for this thing in the right way. He says, “€œOh you need to change your title. Average person doesn’t care about changing the nation. They only want to know what it does for them.”€ He thought, that”€™s an attitude that has to change. You’ve got to get out of just what concerns me and look at what concerns us, more of the nation because you will not keep your life or your family if you lose your nation. That’s just bottom line. It’s just not going to happen.

And that’s why I thought his definition for intercession was so good because I hear spiritual people talk about how intercession is deep prayer. And he said, “€œNo, intercession is just praying about something other than yourself. It”€™s turning your attention toward others and standing up for someone else in prayer.”€ That’s a great definition of intercession.

Tim:

Yeah.

David:

And that’s really the attitude you”€™ve got to have in the nation is, “€œHey, I’ve got to save the nation for the sake of my neighbors, and for the sake of my family, and posterity, and everything else.”€

Sowing and Reaping

Tim:

Yeah, it really is kind of a short sighted notion and selfishness is very short sighted. So, it really is kind of selfish in the midst of it, but thinking that, no, it’s me and my needs. Instead of recognizing, dad, as you’re saying, what’s good for the nation. Ultimately, you’re pointing out what’s good for the nation is good for you. But if you enjoy freedom, if the nation loses freedom, guess who else loses freedom? You do, right? If the nation doesn’t thrive economically, guess who else won’t thrive economically? You won’t.  

So, there is some very practical application to this. It’s really interesting how much the Bible overlaps in the practicality, the benefits for our life, the principles of sowing and reaping.

And I remember, as a side note, as a kid when I was maybe, I don”€™t know, early teenager, but I remember thinking, reading, I think, in proverbs about fathering, or parenting, or disciplining. I remember thinking, “€œI want kids who are going to listen to me when I am their father and I speak to them.”€ And I remember as a kid thinking, “€œWell, if that’s what I want, well I better make sure I’m sowing the right kind of seed because you reap what you sow. So, I thought, “€œI can’t be a rebellious disrespectful kid and expect my kids to submit to me.”€

But it’s these principles that apply a lot bigger than we think they do sometimes that we miss as Americans. And even this idea of intercession, it’s easy to get caught up and to be selfish, and look shortsighted not recognizing that actually some of the most beneficial things for you are things that happen outside of you that just the ripple kind of finally affects you. So, intercession is one of the most significant things we could do. Not just for our nation, but ultimately for our benefit in the future. Not just because God will transform us spiritually, but because his God touches the nation it does impact us.

Rick:

Well, and the intersession side is something that, again, goes against that selfish nature part of “€œI only care about what’s going to improve or change my life, not what”€™s going to change the nation.”€ When we talk about intercession, just like Mike said, we”€™ve got to take focus off ourselves, and stand in those shoes, and pray for other people, so it also leads to that reconciliation.

And I was thinking as he was saying that, that is so, so, true. If you’ve ever had a real conflict with someone that’s gone on and you said, “€œAlright, I”€™m going to spend time praying for them.”€ You can feel the change in your own heart as you”€™re praying for them. It is impossible to keep hating someone if you’re spending time praying for them. Mike”€™s right about that.

Refreshing and Revival Comes When…

David:

Well, the aspect of being a healer of relationships, I thought that was a great definition for reconciliation. Be someone who helps heal relationships.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

Whether it”€™s with you and someone else, or whether it’s between other people you see, do what you can to heal those relationships. And when you do that, that really takes the polarization out of so much. And that’s one of the big problems we have right now is we talk past each other, we don’t listen to each other, we talk in language the other one doesn’t want to hear. So, get in there and be a healer of those relationships. Step in and intervene where you can and do what you can even with yourself, or with your own social media, or whatever. Don’t use things that create rifts – try to bring them together.

And I thought it was really interesting – he’s talking about the Bible verse you do this then you’ll have a time or refreshing, the Lord will send a time refreshing. But I thought the way he boiled it down was really good. And basically, it”€™s if you change the way you think then you can have a season of refreshing and revival. So, having that good result really goes back to changing the way that we think. Whether that’s about praying for others rather than just for ourself, or a healing relationships with others, whether it’s education, influence, whatever it is.

And again, if you’re a pastor, if you’re a church leader, or if you”€™re a church parishioner, try to get your church to go up and spend a couple days in D.C.. You really need to see the city, but you need to see it from a spiritual perspective and it will change you. So, what Mike”€™s got going in D.C. right now is great for everyone, but this book he has is also wonderful as well.

Culture Change – Four Keys to Changing Your Life & The Nation

Rick:

Well, we’ll have links today to make it easy for you to get the book and to learn about the the trips to D.C. for pastors and groups that can go there and go on this three day program that he’s talking about. All that will be available today at WallBuildersLive.com.

Also at WallBuildersLive.com, again, encourage you to think about us for an end of year gift. You can do that right there on the website. It can be a one time gift or you can go and sign up for a monthly donation over the course of the next year that helps us plan out for the year, and plan on adding stations, and adding programs, and continue in that reach and expanding that reach. We sure appreciate you as our supporters.

Thanks so much for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.