DACA Verses Temporary Status- Foundations Of Freedom Thursday: It is Foundations of Freedom Thursday, a special day of the week where we get to answer questions from you, the listeners! Always answering from a constitutional perspective! Tune in today as we answer your most pressing questions!
Air Date: 01/17/2019
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Faith And The Culture
President Thomas Jefferson said, “I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves. And if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”
Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture; this is WallBuilders Live where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics. We’re talking about policy, faith, all these things and how they impact the culture. Of course, we’re always looking at these hot topics from a Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.
We’re with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. Tim Barton’s with us; he’s a national speaker and pastor and President Warblers. And, my name is Rick Green; I’m a former Texas legislator.
Become a Partner!
You can find out more about all three of us and the ministry at WallBuildersLive.com. That also has a list of our stations across the nation. And then, WallBuilders.com is our main website; and, there’s a lot of great information there and a lot of great tools, actually, that you can use for your family. It’ll equip you and inspire you. There are just a lot of great things there to really get educated about how you can make a difference.
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David, Tim, it is Foundations of Freedom Thursday; so, we’ve got a boatload of questions, a ton of them. We won’t get to all of them; but, if you guys are ready to dive in, we’ll take some of the first ones.
Let’s do it.
All right, and by the way, folks that are listening, if you hear a question that makes you think of another question, then send it in. Send it into [email protected]. We’ll try to get to it on one of our Thursday programs. It can be about the Founding Fathers; it can be about an issue of the day and what the founders might have done, or maybe it would be a constitutional perspective on something or Biblical perspective on an issue.
Whatever you want to ask, send it in to [email protected]. We’ll get to as many of those as we possibly can.
A Pro-Choice Jury Sees Horrors of Abortion Clinic
Right off the bat, guys, we got a little bit of an interesting perspective in response to a program we had a few weeks back. You guys remember the Gosnell movie, the one about the guy that had the house of horrors in Philadelphia, the abortion clinic where they ended up making a movie about it? It is just grotesque; it was awful.
Yes, and that’s one that Dean Cain was in and supposed to be very well done. And, I remember when they were doing the filming, and there were people who were saying, “It cannot have been this bad. Surely there were not these bags with body parts and the smell. Surely it wasn’t this bad.”
Come to find out, it was every bit that bad, if not even worse. So, yes very much remember those details.
Yes, and remember too that this trial, high-profile trial, of the abortionist, Dr. Gosnell, happened in Philadelphia, which is a very, very, very blue city; a very pro-abortion city. And, even in that city, they found a jury that convicted him of not abortion, but of murder, several counts of murder, for what he did in that clinic, the filth, and everything else that was there. It even astounded Philadelphians, who tend to be–the jury pool from which they pulled certainly was a pro-abortion-city pool; and, even they found what he did to be reprehensible.
As abominable as abortion is, what he was doing was beyond that, right? Because, these were babies that were alive. He botched an abortion; these babies were at birth. So, now it’s not a question of a mother being pregnant with an unborn child; this is a born child that he was still killing.
So, yeah, just the level of atrocity and disturbing nature of what he did is almost beyond the imagination. So, not even difficult for me to see why someone who’s pro-abortion would still be anti what this guy was doing. Nonetheless, Rick, yes, we remember that situation.
Gosnell Movie True to Life
And, you brought up Dean Cain who starred in the movie. Even Dean on the interview said that when he did question if it could have possibly been this bad, they actually had video. So, the the home videos, basically, little cameras.
Yes, the police videos, when the police went and did their investigations, he actually got to see some of that footage that was part of the investigations.
And, that was when he said, “Okay, we’re not overdoing it;” because, he really thought they were overdoing it. He saw the actual video. Unbelievable.
Well here’s the e-mail that we got. So, this is from Matt. He said, “Slightly unfair,” was the subject line.
A Poor Comparison
So, you gotta listen close to this; he’s actually got a really good point. He said, “I recently listened, as I do, on bot radio while driving through northwest Iowa. Your program was about the abortion House and the Gosnell movie. I generally agree with your program, darn near 100 percent; however, for your commentators to compare a West Texas feedlot to an abortion house–”
That was me. I did that.
You are the guilty party, David.
I am the one.
He said, “Well, sir, you’re giving the beef industry a black eye without justification. I am a beef producer. I do own a feedlot; and, to compare what we do every day to an abortion house and its conditions, well sir, you’re just wrong.”
He goes on to say, “The abortion house may have been filthy, and it is certainly immoral and wrong. But, what I do every day to provide for my family, to provide food for hundreds of people–I’m quite disappointed in your comparison. We, for all intents and purposes, try our best to provide healthy, wholesome environments and ultimately a product that I and we, as an industry, can be proud of.
“Maybe you have zero agriculture background in this area; but, maybe you should actually visit with a producer or even visit a feedlot before dragging a whole industry through the mud with your analogy. Sincerely, Matt.”
Well, Matt, I better leave this to David; but, I think you’re spot on. We might have just besmirched the cattle industry by comparing what was evident in this abortion house.
Respect for the Cattle Industry
And, I actually do have a lot of background in this with feedlots and with cattle. I grew up as a cowboy. I actually was on a meat-judging team where we went to the packing houses, where we went from the feedlot to the packing houses, swift and armor, etcetera.
So, I was very intimately aware of the feedlot, both going in and coming out of the feedlot, everything associated with feedlots. And, even at this point in my life when I drive through Hereford, Texas, and 20 miles before I get there, I can smell what’s coming in any direction, it still has a bad analogy for me as a beef guy. You know, we raise registered angus etc.
But, for Matt to point out–and point taken, okay. I backup; [inaudible] I did make the comparison. But, for Matt to say that comparing the feedlot, that gives the feedlot industry a black eye, that kind of helps make my point.
But, I certainly was not trying to besmirch the feedlot industry in any way, shape, fashion, form. That’s been a good part of my life and growing up.
And, I mean, I’m glad Matt sent it in. I mean, first of all, definitely to Matt and the entire cattle industry, all three of us have great respect there. In fact, one of the awards on my wall that I love so much is from the Cattlemen’s Council that gave me a special award while I was in the legislature; because, I did serve on the Ag Committee.
But, man, I just think he raises a great point in terms of the comparison actually making the folks that are taking care of the animals look bad in comparison to the ones that are supposed to be taking care of the other human beings.
Why the Lack of Regulation in the Abortion Industry?
Well guys, it could go without saying; but, with how many regulations there are from the government about the standards, right? And, this is across the animal industry. So, whether you’re dealing with chickens, whether we’re talking about milking cows, or beef cows, there are so many standards or regulations in place to make sure that what is happening for human consumption is a protected thing.
And, certainly, if you look at the abortion industry, they have nowhere near the standards of what’s happening. As Matt’s pointing out, the cattle industry actually probably does a really, really good job, albeit a smelly thing at times, when you’re going by the yard. As you pointed out, you can smell it 20 miles away.
Yeah, there’s there’s a smell. However, that aside, there is a great cleanliness standard. And, it’s certainly not an industry that we want to at all bad-mouth or “besmirch,” as you mentioned; because, they really do follow those standards. And, there is a great cleanliness standard, as is required by law and regulation.
Do you remember? It was just a few sessions back in the Texas legislature that we were moving through a clinic-regulation bill for abortion clinics, and our line was “to provide the same level of healthcare for women that we require from veterinary clinics.”
And, it literally was that health care for women, that abortion clinics, had lower standards than what the vet clinics had. And, that was actually part of what we used to get that bill passed back in this session. So, great point, Matt; good stuff.
Well, it just tells you how bad these abortion houses are. I mean, he’s saying, “Look, what we’re doing, first of all, is a good thing; but, we’re cleaner than they are. We do a better job of being wholesome and clean and having an environment that produces a good product.” These guys obviously don’t care about life in these abortion clinics, and that’s why they are like that.
A very interesting comparison. And, mea culpa has has occurred, Matt. So, there we go.
And, thank you for pointing that out, Matt; we appreciate it.
Yeah, good email. We’ll be right back. We’ve got tons of questions. Next one coming up has to do with DACA under Obama; so, stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live!
Abraham Lincoln said, “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts. Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”
This Precarious Moment Book
This is David Barton. I want to let about a brand new book we have called This Precarious Moment: Six Urgent Steps That Will Save You, Your family, and Our Country. Jim Garlow and I have co-authored this book and we take six issues that are hot in the culture right now.
Issues that we’re dealing with, issues such as immigration, race relations, our relationship with Israel, the rising generation Millennials, and the absence of the church in the culture wars, and where American heritage is, our godly heritage. We look at all six of those issues right now that are under attack and we give you both Biblical and historical perspective on those issues that provide solutions on what each of us can do right now to make a difference.
These are all problems that are solvable if we’ll get involved. So you can grab the book This Precarious Moment and find out what you can do to make a difference. This Precarious Moment is available at WallBuilders.com.
Be At All Times Armed
Thomas Jefferson said, “The constitutions of most of our states, and of the United States, assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. That they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.”
Well back to WallBuilders Live! Thanks for staying with us. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday, that’s a chance for you to send in your questions on any foundational question, constitutional question, maybe an issue of the day.
And, our first question actually comes about a chapter in David’s new book called This Precarious Moment. Here’s the question guys.
“In the book This Precarious Moment, you provided a very insightful and humane solution to helping adults who have arrived here illegally and were given DACA under Obama. Now I would like to know if you would propose the same solution for people here on Temporary Protected Status. Thank you in advance for answering, as your “yes” or “no” response will assist me in sharing these solutions with my family, friends, and people in the community.”
So, I’m going to have to ask, David, what is the difference between those here illegally and given protection under Obama with DACA, and those who are actually Temporary Protected Status?
Temporary Protected Status
Well, guys, let me jump in with the Temporary Protected Status. That’s something that for immigrants that are here, if they are not able to return to their nation–and, I guess this could be whether they are legal or legal immigrants. So. let’s say maybe they cross the border illegally but they’re not able to return to their nation, because maybe there’s civil unrest.
So, maybe if you look back to what was happening in Syria or go back to Sudan. There are various places you can point to where there were civil wars, where there was unrest, maybe where ISIS was doing something. And so, they got a Temporary Protected Status where they can stay based on the unrest in their nation, it’s not safe for them return; or, maybe their nation just can’t handle the immigrants returning at that time for whatever the reason might be.
And there are nations that have been given that Temporary Protected Status at times; and then, at the end of whatever the unrest is or at the given time, that status is removed. But, that is different from a DACA situation or from a blanket kind of immunity to what a lot of what President Obama did. The temporary status is certainly different than a DACA kind of program.
And, let me throw something else on this; because, DACA are often the children of immigrants who have been here 10, 15 years, whatever. They have been here maybe most of their life, but they are under 18. So, they came in, not of their own choice; they came in with parents who came.
And so, they’ve been here for a long time. They, in many cases, have assimilated to the American way of life. So, it’s a different situation.
But, when you go to the Temporary Protected Status, let me just–Tim, you threw out Sudan. So, let me ask a question. Why would someone come to America from Sudan to get protection?
Why Does Someone Need to go Halfway Around the World?
Now, let me just take from Sudan to Texas. It is 12,700 miles. It is exactly halfway around the world.
At 4000 miles, you can go to Germany, which has open immigration. It’s a Western nation with open arms. Why would you travel three times further to come to the United States? Because, if you’re just looking for a safe place to be and the reason you left your nation is you need a safe place to go, there’s a lot of options.
I mean, we talk about that in the Mideast. Why is it that Palestinians have to own all of Israel when they’ve got 26 nations around them that openly accept them and welcome them in and the Muslim faith? Why did they have to have Israel?
So, it’s not that I’m anti-immigration. But, I have more questions on this, as: If you’re looking for a safe place, there’s a whole lot of nations a whole lot closer to you than the United States; so, why are we arguing here that if you came here under Temporary Protected Status–which, by the way, the word “temporary” means “temporary.”
It doesn’t even make sense sometimes you would come for the reason you gave. I might think that you actually came here, not because you were being persecuted somewhere, but because you wanted a different economic situation, or you wanted a different nation to live in.
And so, using even the title “Temporary Protected Status” does not necessarily line up with the facts of why you would have traveled so–if you just sought protection, there’s so many nations much closer. So, that also would go into my consideration of whether I should extend and give more grace in those kind of situations. It’s like you came here using any claim you could to be able to stay here, and now that you’ve got a claim, you say, “Well, I’m going to appeal to your sympathy; I came here out of disabled nation.”
Well guess what. Most of the world is unstable. It’s just, that’s where it is.
So, that would be the other part I would throw in. But, as Tim points out, there is a real difference between DACA and Temporary Protected Status.
What is the Solution?
Well what is–just while we’re on the topic. And, I know we’ve got to get to break. But, what is what is a summary of the solution that you provide in This Precarious Moment?
Well, with DACA we say that for those who came here illegally, we’re not saying, “Send everybody home.” If you came here illegally, you knew it was illegal when you came here.
I don’t think anyone that has crossed the border into the United States did not know that they were crossing illegally. But, they came because we were not enforcing the laws. So, there was a knowledge that they were here illegally; otherwise, they would not have remained underground and as unregistered as they were once they got here and tried to stay off the radar.
So, if you knew you were breaking the law when you got here, even though it was not being enforced then, you knew there was a possibility it could be enforced. So, we don’t think you reward bad behavior by saying, “It’s a clean slate; you can be a citizen.” We think that at that point, we say, “Okay, you can stay here and be a legal person and can have a Green Card or whatever; but, you cannot be a citizen, because you broke the law to get here, and that’s not what we’re looking for to build a nation on, a knowledgeable breaking of the law.”
The “Amber Card”
But, we have what we called an “Amber Card.” You know, there’s the Green Card, others; and, it’s like a traffic light. Red means you don’t come in; green means you can. Amber means “You can’t become a citizen.”
Because, from a Green Card, you can work your way up to becoming a citizen. So, we recommend what be called an “Amber Card” that says, “Well, you can be here, even legally. You can be above ground and be registered and work and pay taxes and everything else; but, you just can’t be a citizen, because you knew you were illegal when you came here.”
So, that’s part of the solution we offer in This Precarious Moment. And really, we do go back and look at immigration law, starting back with what the Constitutional Convention did 1787, then the first immigration law of 1790.
And, we just developed some themes on the purpose of immigration; How do you do it? What are you looking for? What kind of standards do you keep? Does the Bible say anything about it?
And, based on that, we tried to offer some solutions, both Biblically and historically, on how to deal with where we are in the immigration crisis today.
That’s all available in This Precarious Moment; that books available right now at WallBuilders.com. We have to take a break; we’ll be back with more of your questions. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live!
Greatest Political Privilege
Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”
Hi, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders and I want to encourage all the pastors out there with a unique opportunity that we’re presenting it WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation. Not just seeing the sights but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent.
We get to go to the Capitol at night. And we get to see the spiritual heritage of our Founding Fathers, of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties and freedom, and what’s going on in Washington, D.C.
If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website at www.WallBuilders.com. And there’s a link that’s for scheduling. If you click on that link there’s a section for pastor’s briefing. There’s more information about the dates, when it’s going, and how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of.
Questions of Power
Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”
Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us on Foundations of Freedom Thursday here on WallBuilders Live! We’re taking your questions; this next one comes from Laura.
She said, “Thanks so much for spreading the truth to the world through your broadcast. As an 18-year-old, I find your messages inspiring and very informational. My question–”
Actually, before I give her questions, those of you that are listening, did you hear that? An 18-year-old is telling us, “Thank you for spreading the truth to the world through your broadcast.” She’s inspired and feels like it’s very informational.
Just a great opportunity to remind you that WallBuilders.com is where you can make a contribution to make more of these broadcasts available and reach more of those 18-year-olds and others that need to be educated in this way. All right. Here we go; that’s my sidetrack.
Resources to Teach Our True Heritage
“My question has to do with,” this is from Laura again, “My question has to do with how to teach younger children about the founding of our country and principles that apply today. For a couple of months at a time, I go into the public schools of Oklahoma City and teach character to the children through the Ministry of In the Gap. I have the freedom to talk about history and tell stories of men and women of character; but, I obviously cannot talk about God or my political views during public school hours.
“I was wondering how you would recommend me pointing the children back to the founding of our country without encroaching on controversial ground. What are some specific stories I could share with the children that would help to give them a picture of the importance of the Constitution and the founding of our country?
Thanks for your ministry. I am looking forward to attending Patriot Academy in August.”
All right Laura, we’re looking forward to having you at Patriot Academy. I know David and Tim have a lot on this; but, let me just say, look there’s some fantastic biography stories at WallBuilders.com. You can go there and get those stories and use those in the classroom.
Those are founders; or, there people throughout American history, or even world history, that are just great examples, just like what you’re sharing. But then, you can also share the founding part of that as well. David, Tim?
A YouTube Channel
Yes, we also have a YouTube channel where we tell a lot of short stories. That might be something that you could find to be very appropriate for retelling some of the stories. And, I’ll go ahead and tell you that if you’re doing anything that promotes or points to the Constitution, you’re not necessarily going to escape this idea of the the tension or the confrontation that you’re trying to avoid.
I’ve not spoken at many public schools. I totally get the notion that you have to be very careful with how you present God or your faith etc. But, the Constitution is becoming almost one of those hot issues as well.
Highlight Key Constitutional Aspects
But, I think one of the things strategically that’s worth looking at, is not just highlighting maybe the importance of the Constitution, but ideas from the Constitution and why it matters. Why does it matter that we have a separation of powers? Or, why does it matter that we have three branches of government? Why does it matter that there needs to be some accountability for the judiciary?
And, you can go back to the Declaration and you can see the grievances they listed were the military abuses, the reason we don’t have quartering. Or, the reason that we can elect judges and it’s not just the king and some other places appointing judges who aren’t our own people. And the reason we have a jury of our peers, and the reason we have the Second Amendment the right of self-defense.
I think you can explain some of these notions to them. And, certainly there’s great stories you can explain along the way. Whether you’re talking about George Washington or Nathan Hale or James Armistead and so many stories you can get into.
But, I think I would highlight some key aspects from the Constitution, and then you can make the point of Guys, this is why what we have in America is so cool, or why it’s so important, or whatever point you want to make. But, instead of just big picture, the Constitution, I think I would try to show them a concept from it and how that works in real life and why that actually mattered.
Look for Stories that Illustrate Character Traits
And what you’ve got too is, if you’re teaching character, you’ll probably have a list of character traits you’re trying to teach, whether it be honesty, integrity, loyalty, or whatever. Take those traits and then look for stories from history that illustrate that.
And, as Tim said, on the YouTube channel we’ve got a lot of that. But, you can tell the stories of young people: of John Clem and of Annie Oakley and of all these other kind of folks. You can tell stories of young Patrick Henry, when he was a young man.
And, here’s the deal you need to know as well. And, Patrick Henry, how did he become a great spokesman? How do you become a great orator?
According to Patrick Henry, it is because he listened to sermons every Sunday from the Reverend Samuel Davies. Who’s the Reverend Samuel Davis? Well, he is the guy who had such an impact on George Washington, etc. So, you tells stories.
Oklahoma’s American Heritage Education Act
So, Oklahoma actually has what’s called the American Heritage Education Act. The American Heritage Education Act passed by, I think 13 or 14 states last time I saw, said, “You cannot censor any religious content from any historical document.” So, while you mentioned that, “Obviously, I can’t talk about God,” well, you can if it’s part of history. And, while people may yell about it, you say, “No, this is Patrick Henry’s own description of how he learned to be a good speaker; and, he’s talking about the sermons he heard and about the Bible verses that were used.”
So, you can do things like that. You can tell the stories. And, in Oklahoma, you do not have to fear being in trouble.
Now, you can fear teachers who don’t know what they’re talking about. When they come at you, you say, “Hey, I’ve got the American Heritage Education Act.”
The one other thing I’d throw out is to take George Washington’s Rules of Civility and teach those to the young people as part of character; because, that’s from a very young George Washington who did that.
Yes, well and the Rules of Civility was a list that he actually copied; so, that’s something that at least you can point to and say, “He thought this was important.” They weren’t things he came up with necessarily; however, even with that, a great example of something that you can quote.
You look at Sam Adams or John Hancock or go back to some of these early governors and presidents who did prayer proclamations. You can read things where they talk about the importance of faith or the importance of the Bible. And then, it’s not you pushing that agenda, per se, in the sense of Well, I think you need to do this.
No. “Hey guys, let me just read you something that George Washington said as President. Let me read you something that John Hancock said as governor of Massachusetts. And, there’s a lot of great original documents.
And, as Dad mentioned, when you when know what those character traits are specifically, you can find things that certainly can bolster that notion from American history, or find the concept from the Constitution. So, lots of good stuff.
We Want to Help You Understand Other Issues Like DACA
And, by the way, as you’re doing this, we’d love to help you along the way. So, if you want to send us an email, “Hey, what do you have on this topic?” Or, “What do you have in this category?” We certainly would love to point you to some of that.
And, by the way, bravo for what you’re doing and making a difference. That is awesome.
That’s right. Great stuff.
Yes, no doubt about it. I really want encourage you, Laura, to continue to do that and get other teachers to do the exact same thing. The last thing I’ll say and chime in, as well as we’re fading out here, is make it fun.
Make it exciting; that’s one of these WallBuilders does so well through these bio books and Chasing American Legends and taking you to the places where it all happened. I mean, use those fun stories so the young people don’t get bored with history or our Founding Fathers or that sort of thing, but they actually get excited about reliving those things. Because, it can be really very fun and entertaining if you do it in the right way.
It sounds like you already are. So, keep it up Laura. And, everybody else out there, encourage your teachers to do the same thing.
Thanks so much for listening today and for being part of Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Thank you for sending in all your questions; we will get to as many of them as possible next Thursday; but, we’re out of time for today.
Again, be sure and visit WallBuildersLive.com and WallBuilders.com. Make that donation to help us spread this all across the country and get even more people equipped and inspired just like Laura there in Oklahoma. Thanks for listening.
You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live!
Liberties and Freedom Are Worth Defending
Samuel Adams said, “The liberties of our Country and the freedom of our civil Constitution are worth defending against hazards. And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”