Decision 2020 Developments – Election-Issue Hearings, Lawsuits, And More!: Investigation into election fraud continues this week. What’s going on in Nevada? Will Sydney Powell receive the outside inspections she’s requested in Georgia? Are things really over in Wisconsin? Ballot trailers disappearing in Pennsylvania? Are there still opportunities through the process – not just the legal battles – for Trump to win? Who will this election be decided by? This election is far from over. Tune in to hear updates you don’t want to miss!

Air Date: 12/02/2020

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live, where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, always looking at those things from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective, that includes even the election results. 

We got to look at what the Constitution says about how this thing will play out. We look at history for precedent. We look at what’s happened in past presidential elections here in America. And of course, biblically, how should we be responding as biblical Christians? As biblical citizens, how do we respond to what’s happening right now in our nation? What action steps can we take? What should we be praying for?

So those are all big questions, we address this stuff all the time on WallBuilders Live. And if you want more of WallBuilders Live, you can go to our website That’s the place where you can get the archives, which has weeks and weeks of programming available to you right there, especially the last few weeks with all the craziness in the election.

But also you can go back to our Foundations of Freedom Thursday programs, which are really timeless. I mean, they’re constitutional questions, principle questions about how you form a society, how a society should work, how our constitution works in America. So any of those programs you would enjoy listening to even today. 

And then Good News Friday, listen, I need Good News Fridays myself. I love Good News Fridays, because it gives me a little bit of a pick me up to know that there are great things happening in and out of our nation, I mean, all kinds of things in the culture, in your neighborhood in my neighborhood. And so Fridays are great time to catch up on a lot of that good news that just simply goes unreported.

Help Us Speak the Truth!

So all of that’s available at That is also the place where you can make a contribution. I’m asking you to consider coming alongside us here at WallBuilders, it is so important to help us get the truth out there. That’s the only way we’re going to save our nation, is if we can speak truth, stand on that truth and get more people educated in that truth. So please consider that at today, making that donation.

My name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s constitution coach. And I’m here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. And we’re here with Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. And we have been talking about the election results for a month now, guys, for a month, and we’re still getting those results, things still happening all across the country.

Alright, well, let’s dive into some of that latest election news. Tim, so the Attorney General finally had something to say about all the election chaos.


Yeah, he did. And it’s probably not the response most people were hoping for, at least certainly not conservative Republicans, in that sense, where AG Barr said that he found no kind of serious voter fraud that would be any kind of level to overturn the election. And of course, people from the Trump campaign in the Trump White House are explaining that right, you haven’t had time to do a full investigation, a lot of stuff is still coming out.

So how do you know this isn’t enough evidence yet? Nonetheless, AG Barr has come out and said that, at this point, it does not look like there is the information needed or the voter fraud on the level needed to overturn the election. And so I’m not sure that he’s going to be able to help President Trump in Trump’s effort to change the outcome of the election.

Attorney General Barr


Interesting. So now, there was a little bit of pushback from the campaign, right? I mean, they’re saying what are you not seeing here? They obviously don’t agree with Attorney General Barr’s assessment.


Yeah, in what they’re pointing out is that the investigations haven’t been fully done yet, and so there’s still evidence being presented in a lot of States, they’re still many things coming to light. And their argument is that there really hasn’t been time to do a full investigation for them to even know at this point whether there wasn’t a voter fraud to change anything or not. And so they feel like it’s not only inaccurate, it was premature statements, based on the lack of investigation that took place.

And certainly, that I’m sure AG Barr has a lot of people that he works with that have probably given him very compelling cases of why they don’t think voter fraud happened on the level enough to change the outcome of the election. Certainly, there’s a lot going on in court cases that might show something different.

And with things happening today, yesterday from different States, having legislative bodies where people were coming and giving evidence, there certainly is a lot of very suspicious behavior based on the testimony that are being given from people involved in the elections, a lot of thing that sound very fraudulent.

So I do see why the Trump campaign and the White House would have a problem with AG Barr statement. But at this point, it does not look like AG Barr is going to be the Calvary coming in to save the day for President Trump.

Changing Ballots


Kind of following up with that, it’s interesting that Barr noted that what they looked at were claims of fraud that were very particularized to what he called a particular set of circumstances or actors or conduct. He said we didn’t look at systemic allegations. And interestingly, much of what the White House is pointing to in these six or seven states is systemic type of stuff. And so that’s really not what he looked at. He looked at specific individual actors or claims or whatever.

Yesterday, I saw a really interesting piece, whether there were 10 folks, both Republican and Democrat taken into a room, they all wrote down a vote on a ballot, they knew what their ballot was, they counted it before they ran into the machines. And then after having each recorded their own vote and tallied up what it was among the 10, they ran it through voting machines, and when the machine kicked out a number, it was totally different than what they had run through there and their own ballots that they individually had marked. And they were amazed at that.

And then what happened after that was they ran it back through the machines again, and it recounted and gave him the same result, even though it wasn’t what they had marked. And so he said, this is how you certify results, you run the ballots again. But what they had was a hacker on the outside who was changing the stuff despite what they had done. And so they were all shocked, they didn’t think ballot fraud could happen and yet they found they were very innocent.

So it’s real possible that if that happened, I’m saying a big if there, if that happened, there’s a lot of people in the areas that were conducting these things that may have thought that they ran all the balance exactly right and they probably did. But it may have been out of their control, quite frankly and that’s what this demonstration was to show was that hacking, you can be a good faith actor on the Republican or the Democrat side, but if you have a bad faith actor outside the area that are changing results, you can run the same balance time and time again and get them certified and still be wrong.

Electoral College


Yeah, I mean, there still seems to be so many different ways that this election that we got it wrong, that there’s just too many opportunities here to seize on, but it does feel like some of the major decision makers are backing off and saying no, they’re not going to move forward. So what do you think, David? I mean, just looking at the big picture here, does he still have a path to victory to turn this? I’m not saying we don’t still pursue all of the fraud and everything. But what do you think that his big opportunities are that are still on the table?


Well, I think he has big opportunities with the equal protection, which we talked about yesterday, and the fact that the law was changed by others than legislators and the Constitution requires that legislators change law. I think that’s still a big factor to be there. But the other thing you have is just the process itself. The Constitution says we’re going to have an Electoral College, but didn’t give you all the details. So details are done through federal law, the Electoral College Act and other things.

And there was actually a law passed in 1887, and this is the one that says that Congress has to meet on January 6th to take action on the Electoral College vote, which is December the 14th. So that January 6th date, it’s interesting the way the process happens. Because you have a joint session of the House and Senate, they get together to certify the election results. Now, they certified the election results individually, state by state.

But what happens is, if you have a senator from a State joined with a representative from a State to contest that State’s results, then they can’t certify. So what they do, I’m just going to pick Pennsylvania, because that’s one of the news. Let’s say that a representative from Pennsylvania and a US senator from Pennsylvania in that joint session.

If You Come Up with Less Than 270…

Say we think there’s election fraud in Pennsylvania, we don’t think the results that are certified are actually accurate. So at that point, what has to happen is they break back into the House and Senate and they each go through all the debates on to discuss it, and they vote on whether this should be accepted or not.

And let’s say that the Senate which is still Republican, and maybe Republicans at that point in time comes back and says yeah, we think there’s election fraud in the House said, well, we don’t think there’s election fraud, so the Democrats say no fraud, Republicans say fraud, now you’re stuck with not being able to certify the votes from that State.

And they have to do this for all 50 states. So if you come up with less than 270, that throws the thing back into the House where the House has to decide. And at that point, it’s not based on whether the House is Democrat or Republican, it’s based on the States in the House. So each delegation from each state in the House just gets one vote.

So Texas may have 36 Congressman, they don’t get 36 votes. The State of Texas will get one vote and those 36 congressmen will vote to see whether they certify or not. And if they’re Republican, they probably won’t certify. So Texas would probably be a Republican vote, and it would be that way for the other States. So it’s somewhere between, depending on how all the election turns out, looks like 28-29 delegations are going to be Republican in the US House. So there’s still a lot left in the process, not counting what’s left in the course. So this thing is far from over.

So that looks like the process, but quite frankly, it’s really disputed and debated. There’s some people say no, no, both chambers have to reject it, not just one or the other and it can’t have a split on it. And Authority say, hey, the law was so badly written back then that the language was so unclear and imprecise, that even that could be a debate today. But it looks like that there’s still opportunities through the process as well as through the legal system.

The Influence of the Reverend…


Yeah, it’s a confusing law. I’ve tried to go through it myself and man, it reads horribly. I mean, you could come away from it. And courts have said there’s different interpretations of how this thing works. So oh my goodness, it could leave us in confusion at the end of the day when this gets there. Let’s take a quick break. We’ve got some other things happening in the states we want to update folks on as well. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. In the early 1700s, the Reverend John Wise preached that all men were created equal, that taxation without representation was tyranny, and that God’s preferred form of government was the consent of the government.

All of which is language recognizable in the Declaration of Independence. Why? Because in 1772, the Sons of Liberty led by founders such as Sam Adams, and John Hancock, reprinted and distributed the Reverend Wise’s sermons, so four years later, much of the declaration reflected the language of those sermons by John Wise.

In 1926, on 150th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, President Calvin Coolidge affirmed “The thoughts in the declaration can very largely be traced back to what John Wise was saying.” Few today know that the Declaration was so strongly influenced by the Reverend John Wise.

For more information on this and other stories, go to

Be Watching Nevada


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. We’re doing some more election updates, some big breaks across the country over the last day or two at the national level, but also in these individual States. Tim, several states to catch up on, still big things happening in Georgia and Nevada, Arizona. What’s the latest over in Nevada and will not debate whether it’s Nevada or Nevada today, we’re just going to each say it however.


That’s it. People are going to have grace, we mispronounce their State, we apologize, all those people in our Kansas and whoever else lives where. Okay. So over in Nevada, Kayleigh McEnany, who White House Press Secretary, came out and said that really, we need to be watching that Nevada place whatever that state is out there where Vegas is.

Watch the State, because they were granted the ability to depose witnesses, a judge overseeing the case rule the campaign can oppose up to 15 witnesses. The reason that’s a big deal is because this is part of them doing discovery and doing discovery, they could ask questions and bring in this as part of their case as part of the evidence that will be presented. And this is where they have so many sworn affidavits and so many of you states that they want to be able to utilize what people saw where they saw fraudulent activity and behavior.

One of the things it’s also worth noting is Kayleigh pointed out that after the Judge granted that deposition, the two attorneys were and this is Trump’s attorney, she said our two attorneys were suddenly matched by 10 attorneys from Perkins Coie, who did fusion GPS and the dossier, notably and the top attorney in the nation. So the other side is very, very well-funded.

Getting Into the Evidence

They’re very well prepared. And so this is going to be a major uphill battle. But the fact that now they’re being able to depose witnesses that they’re being able to get this depositions done, to have information come to light will be very beneficial, potentially for the Trump campaign. But this is where Kayleigh said, definitely watch Nevada this week and see what unfolds from these depositions.


Yes. So Nevada is one that a lot of people had just kind of forgotten about and assumed that one was over. Sounds like there’s still a lot going on there?


Well, there is, and there’s a real difference in what’s happening then, we have several stories like this. Because up to now, you know, Sidney Powell put out her stuff and said, here’s what’s happened. They said, well, where’s your evidence?

Show the evidence. You know, even Tucker Carlson, they had a breakup over that, because he demanded evidence, and she gave him affidavits. He said, well, affidavits aren’t evidence, I want to see evidence. Well, now we’re getting into evidence. This is where discovery, both sides get to depose witnesses.

They get to talk to the whistleblowers. They get to say, here’s your side, here’s our side. This is where you’re going to find that if there is real evidence to these claims. And so this is a real change, then is not just in Nevada, this has happened in elsewhere as well. But this is a big change in the legal debate starting today. So that’s big stuff.


And moving to Georgia, it’s interesting we were talking yesterday in Georgia about how they’re just begging the Secretary of State to do some comparisons of ballot signatures or mail-in ballots or anything. And for the fifth time, the Trump campaign has asked the Secretary of State to do it, and he’s not doing it, and it would appear to be a fairly simple request. And so even now, in the last 24 hours, President Trump has really kind of stepped up the pressure.

Now, he’s putting pressure on Governor Kemp and he saying, you got to do something about this. And Governor Kemp’s response is, well, I’m forbidden by law to interfere with the elections. I mean, we have an elected Secretary of State that does this and I can’t interfere with that. And so Trump is really putting pressure on, check the envelopes, check the signatures. And the allegation is well, now that we’ve separated the ballots from the envelopes, we can’t match them up anymore.

And so Trump’s saying alright, in this tweet, he said, just count how many ballots there are, and just count how many envelopes there are. There should be the same amount. If you’ve got more ballots than you’ve got envelopes, you’ve got fraud going on. And he thinks there’s enough there to make the difference in winning the State. So he’s really starting to turn up the pressure on the Secretary of State by going after the governor, and really making the Secretary of State a public debate.


Yeah, and guys, in the midst of that the Georgia, Speaker of the House, David Ralston also came out this week, really urging the Secretary of State to do exactly what Donald Trump was suggesting, to go back and mark signatures. So you do now have some GOP officials in the State who many of them were quiet. And this is one of the question marks from a lot of us on the outside watching going, where are the Republican leaders of Georgia? Where are the conservatives and the Christians in Georgia saying we need to do something?

What Are the “Leaders” Doing?

Guys, we’ve talked about it so many times, at the end of the day, if you have transparency, and it’s gone through the system of justice, then whatever happens, everybody can be satisfied, relatively speaking with the result if it was transparent. But right now, we’re not seeing the transparency, it seems like justice is not happening. And so this is where the questions were, where are these Republican Senators, these Republican Congressman?

Or in this case, the Georgia State House Speaker David Ralston, where, right, you’re the leader over there, what are you doing? And so he is now stepping forward, and calling on the Secretary of State to go back and match those ballots, looking for some of these anomalies that the Trump campaign has been suggesting. So it’ll be interesting to see how this unfolds.


And yesterday, we talked about the fact that Sidney Powell had followed a lawsuit in Georgia. And so the Judge who was over that he said, you can’t wipe the machines, no, wait a minute, I was right the first time, you can’t watch them change. And so what has happened in that is they’ve said, okay, on Friday, we’re going to have a hearing on all the stuff that’s going on here. So this is kind of like Nevada in the fact that it’s now in federal court and we’re now getting into the case itself.

And so what’s happened is, what Sidney Powell is asking for is she wants the machines in three counties, and that’s it’s Cobb County, Gwinnett. County, and it’s Cherokee County, and two of those are suburbs of Atlanta and others where Canton is. She wants those machines to not be wiped to, we don’t want any data removed off them. Because what she’s asking for is she wants outside forensic inspections of those machines. Now, here’s where evidence is, again.

If you get outside inspectors to come in and inspect those machines, and they find no fraud at all, this case is done, it goes away. But if those outside inspectors come in, and they find that it’s been messed with, or find fraud, or find weird things going on, now you got a case. So it’s been he said, she said back and forth across this thing and I don’t mean that to be gender bias in any direction.

The American Story

That’s just the old idiom that it is: one side and the other side, and they’re going back and forth. Now we’re in the point where we’re starting to get to where we can start seeing if there’s evidence. We’ve talked before, just because there’s smoke doesn’t mean there’s fire, could be a smoke machine going. But we’ll find that now if there’s really fire behind the smoke or not.


Alright, guys, I know we’ve got more to cover. Let’s take a quick break, we’ll be right back. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders called The American Story. For so many years, people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that’s just not known or not told today. And we would say very providentially in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project that say America is evil and everything in America was built off slavery, which is certainly not true or things like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not out of statement, Black Lives Matter, but the organization that says we’re against everything that America was built on, and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There’s so many things attacking America.

Well, is America worth defending? What is the true story of America? We actually have written and told that story. Starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln, we tell the story of America, not as the story of a perfect nation or a perfect people, but the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It’s a story you want to check out,, The American Story.

Is It All Over in Wisconsin?


Welcome back WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. More election coverage for you. We’ve gone through several states, guys, but there’s several we haven’t mentioned in a while, Wisconsin and Michigan and some others, what’s happening in Wisconsin?


Well, continued lawsuits are being filed all over the country. Wisconsin is one of those places where there are new lawsuits being filed. This week one detailing what it calls abuse of absentee voting, alleging that 220,000 ballots were illegally cast in the State’s November 3rd election.

So 220,000 ballots, that’s enough to make a difference up in Wisconsin. In the midst of what’s going on there, the Trump campaign attorney, Jim and I am going to mispronounce Last time I’m positive, but I’m going to give it a shot. And so Jim Troupis, a former Wisconsin Circuit Court Judge said the recount allowed the Trump campaign to examine ballots and brought election abuse to light.

So Wisconsin is one of the states that did the recount, but in the midst of the recount, the Trump team was able to look and go, wait a second, some of this doesn’t seem right, we see some problems with what’s going on. And so they are now filing a lawsuit alleging that a lot of these ballots are not appropriate, that clerks were illegally altering ballot envelopes, several things as part of this lawsuit.

But this is another one of those states, where even though they certified, even though it looks like it done, now, there are lawsuits challenging the certification, because of what they’re alleging is voter fraud. And in this case, at least 220,000 ballots were illegally cast is what they’re asserting.


So that’s yet another State. If they’re still making progress in some of these states, this is where you really could see the election change very quickly based on some of the States. To where it would come back to President Trump’s direction, and President Trump could be the president four more years. But all that is yet to be determined based on these lawsuits.


So let’s go to Pennsylvania. In Pennsylvania, we’ve talked about Phil Kline, the former Attorney General of Kansas, who is now heading the [inaudible 21:18] project over Thomas Moore, and they’ve been very aggressive and looking for data and information and facts and they’ve taken a lot of affidavits. And so in Pennsylvania, they come out with some new affidavits, some new information, where they’re alleging that up as many as 288,000 ballots may have disappeared on a mail truck that was going from New York to Lancaster.

The truck just disappeared, all the ballots disappeared. It went offline somewhere, don’t know where it is. So they’re looking for the ballots and the trailer. And that was back on October 21 that that truck was carrying those ballots and disappeared.

And so he’s got statements from the US Postal Service subcontractors who are whistleblowers, they’re the ones driving the trucks and said this truck just disappeared. You’ve also got another postal service worker who talked about what he saw in widespread illegal efforts. He even talked about having carried in a load of pre-marked ballots.

He’s carrying ballots that’s supposed to be blank ballots going into the state, he said they were pre-marked. So you know, again, these are allegations, these are affidavits. They haven’t been proven in court. They haven’t been cross examined yet. But still more claims coming up, and this time, every time you start thinking a State is kind of done, you find more stuff coming out, and that’s Pennsylvania.

Representative Mike Garcia


Well, and guys, as we’ve talked about the last few days, it’s more than just the presidential race that has been undecided, even up to this point a month later, congressional seats still seems like every other day, we get another result of this handful of about a dozen races that were yet to be called until last week. But now I think what we’ve got four or five maybe that are left?


Well, after what I tell you here, we’re going to be down to three. So there were four and now we have results from California. And so California, we talked yesterday about that New York race that appears to be won by 12 votes and the day before we talked about Iowa by six votes.

This is a race that is one by 333 votes in California. We have Representative Mike Garcia, he was in a special election six months ago, because the Democrat who held that seat, Katie Hill, she resigned after a bunch of photos came out, sex photos and found out that, looked like there was an extramarital affair with a staffer. And so she resigned, so there’s special election. And so Mike Garcia won that.

And so six months later, he’s taken on the same opponent he had six months ago, and he won again this time. And again, in several hundred thousand votes, who wins by 333 votes. But here’s what I thought was really interesting.

Not only do Republicans gained the seat, which if the others go Republican, which it looks like they’re going too, they’re leaning that way. If they do go Republican, that means that the Democrats only have a four vote majority in the House, which is so close. And talking to Gary Palmer, he said that there are several Democrats that will vote with Republicans on several issues, so that’ll be interesting.

Republicans Won

But Mike Garcia is the first Hispanic Republican Representative in California since 1883. That’s a long time ago, man. 137 years ago is the last time they had a Republican Hispanic congressman from California. So congratulations to Mike Garcia.


And guys, there’s also positive ground being made in the state legislature. We’ve talked about how there are gains in many States. So the state elected body and the state legislature, Republicans had about 400 person lead going into this election, and they now have gained an additional 300 of those seats, so they have a 700 person lead now on these State legislative bodies.

There have been gains in many states and actually, some states that you wouldn’t expect, necessarily to pick up seats like New York or Illinois, New Hampshire, actually, now Republicans have the majority to house in the Senate. They’re super majorities now in Kentucky in West Virginia. And so some places you’re not surprised they made some gains, but certainly, when you look across the board, how many gains were made? It is very, very impressive. And so there really is still positive stuff happening in the midst of us waiting for these lawsuits to be finished.


Alright, guys. Well, thanks for the update on all of those different election results, again, more pouring in every day. We’ll have more results for all of you, our listeners tomorrow, so you don’t want to miss WallBuilders Live tomorrow as well. And then be sure to check out at our website, “The American Story” new book by David and Tim Barton that addresses so much of the important truth that has been lost in American history. So check that out “The American Story”, it’s available at

Decision 2020 Developments – Election-Issue Hearings, Lawsuits, And More!

And start thinking now about what you can do to be a catalyst for the restoration of biblical principles, constitutional principles, the values that made our nation great, what you can do to be the catalyst to restore those things in your community, and your state and our nation. Because you have a role to play in this, you can make a difference. No matter where you are in the country, no matter your age, no matter your financial standing or what you do, “for a living”, every single one of us as citizens, we have a voice. We have a role to play in preserving freedom and passing it to the next generation.

One of the best things you can do is tune in here and WallBuilders Live, but then to share this program with others. Be a force multiplier, and expand this truth to as many Americans as we possibly can. And we also want to encourage you to host a class in your home or at your church. Constitution Alive is your chance to study the Constitution and the biblical foundations of America. You can get the program at our website or you can become a Constitution coach at, totally for free. We will train you and equip you on how to host those classes in your community.

Thanks so much for joining us today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.