How Do You Define Truth-Where To Start-With Ken Ham- In our culture today, many young people believe there is no absolute truth. Join us for this enlightening interview with Ken Ham – How do YOU define truth?

Air Date: 07/27/2020

Guest: Ken Ham

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.



Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live. This is the place where we talk about all the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. And I’m here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and the founder of our organization known as WallBuilders. And WallBuilders comes from that scripture in Nehemiah that says, arise and rebuild the walls that we may no longer be a reproach. Think about it, folks. When that foundation is destroyed, the nation falls apart. And the foundation of America has been under attack for many years. It is time to repair the breach. It is time to rebuild those walls, rebuild those foundations and that’s what WallBuilders is all about.

Tim Barton, the third person on the program here, he is a pastor and speaker and he’s the president of WallBuilders. And I am so thrilled to get to work with both of these guys: Barton families amazing, they got the largest private collection of founding fathers documents in the world, just incredible.

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Alright guys, later in the program, Ken Ham will be with us from the Creation Museum and the Ark Encounter today. We’re really talking about truth. Of course, you know, lately with people falling for so many lies about their founding fathers, about our country, about who we are, you know, we’ve said, look, if you don’t get truth right, in fact, we hold these truths to be self-evident. If you don’t get that right, you’re not going to get life, liberty and pursuit of happiness and all the other things that come after that. We have to start with truth. But apparently, there isn’t a whole lot of truth out there that people believe in anymore.


Well, this is something that’s even a challenge inside of the Christian community, inside of the church, where you have a lot of young people, you have a lot of Christians who aren’t even sure the Bible is true, who aren’t sure how true God is or the fact that Jesus is the only way to the Father. Basic biblical truths, basic doctrinal theological truths are being questioned. And so, it’s not just that culture doesn’t know truth, it’s the church doesn’t even know truth. And if the church doesn’t know truth, well then who’s going to reveal truth to culture where Jesus says, I am the way, the truth and the life? Truth is ultimately found in God. And if Christian can’t identify truth, then there’s really not a lot of hope for the culture to discover truth, because they will then make truth subjective. And here’s what I think. And here’s how I feel.

Well, here’s what it means to me. At this point, truth is not something that is objective, that has been revealed that you can discover from God’s creation or from God’s word, truth is more about the individual and it becomes very relative. And this is a pretty dangerous thing we’re seeing in our culture and society. It’s why you’re seeing some of the responses that we’re seeing from some of the Cancel Culture movement, from some of the protests, from these riots, from tearing down statues and monuments that you identified. It’s because people are now forming truth in their own opinion or like the book of Judges says, wherever men does what is right in their own eyes. This is the subjective truth we are now battling in culture.


And when you look at the stats, it really is fairly staggering. Three out of five Americans in general, believe there’s no absolute moral truth. And so, how can you argue for the founding fathers or against socialism or anything else? Well, that’s just your opinion, there’s no absolute truth. Four in five millennials believe there’s no absolute truth. And one in two Christians believe there’s no absolute moral truth, which is just staggering to me. I mean, that’s somebody who obviously doesn’t know much about God’s word, because that would turn the 10 commandments into the 10 suggestions and that’s just crazy. So, for that high percentage of Christians and millennials and the entire nation to say there is no absolute truth, that is a really tough hurdle to overcome. How do you get agreement on policy? Or how do you agree what’s right or wrong? Or how do you agree with stats you should or shouldn’t stay if there’s no objective truth if everything is subjective?

And so, it kind of goes back to how you define truth and where you begin with truth. And we thought that Ken Ham with answers in Genesis would be a great starting place because Genesis is the great starting place, that’s where you first get exposed to truth, is way back in Genesis.


Stay with us, folks, Ken Ham, our special guest today. We’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.


Hi, friends, this is Tim Barton of WallBuilders. This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. And I know oftentimes we, parents, we’re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

And if you remember back to the Bible, to the book of Hebrews, it has the faith Hall of Fame where they outline the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans, we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes, not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity in our faith as well.

I want to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called The Courageous Leaders collection. And this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers. And there’s a second collection called Heroes of History. In this collection, you’ll read about people like Benjamin Franklin or Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, friends, the list goes on and on. This is a great collection for your young person to have and read and it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at That’s


Welcome back WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. So thrilled to have Ken Ham back with us. You got to go to the Ark Encounter and to the Creation Museum. Ken, that’s not really our topic today, but I tell everybody all over the country they got to go visit. It is phenomenal, a great experience, families need to go. And one of the things you told me a while back that shocked me was the high percentage of people that come to see the ark that aren’t even believers.


Yeah, there’s about 30% that comes that aren’t believers. And actually, while we’re doing this interview, I am at the Ark looking at the window of my office looking at it. How about that? You take view in the world.


Very nice. Well, speaking to those non-believers coming and seeing the evidence, our topic today is about truth itself and moral truth. And of course, we see in the streets today, you know, it’s up for grabs what’s true and what’s not true, what’s right, what’s not right, what’s wrong or is anything wrong. And this poll said that 58%, more than a majority, 58% of Americans say moral truth is up to you. Ken, how did we get here from a declaration that starts with we hold these truths to be self-evident?


Well, that’s really interesting. You know, if you think of judges 21:25, it says when they have no king, no absolute authority, in other words, to tell them what to do, they all do what is right in their own eyes. And that’s what we’ve got to understand, is that when we have generations that no longer build their worldview on the Bible. I mean, you know, the older generations, even if they weren’t Christian, they still have that Judeo-Christian ethic because of respect for the Bible and you know, the founding fathers that were Christian and those that had a respect for God’s word and so their Judeo-Christian ethic permeated the culture.

But we’ve had generations now taken through an education system where basically, they’ve thrown God out, the Bible out, prayer out, creation out, they’ve indoctrinated them in naturalism. Naturalism is atheism. And basically, what they told is, is man that determines truth. And even many of those that went to church, I mean, 90% of kids from church homes have gone to public school. And they go back to church with this worldview that they get in the public schools that basic, it has man’s word is the foundation. And unfortunately, even many of our churches haven’t given them answers to the skeptical questions of the age that undermine the authority of God’s word or have told them you can believe in evolution millions of years, doesn’t matter.

And now, there’s been an exodus from the church. Because if you look at the statistics, only 18% of millennials actually go to church, whereas for the greatest generation, it was like 56%. So, when you’ve got generations that have been basically indoctrinated against believing God’s word, particularly beginning in Genesis right there and they believe it’s man who determines truth, then ultimately, they just redefine what right and wrong is for themselves. And that’s what we’re seeing happening.

It’s interesting, I had one of the Millennials and I’ve had Generation Z people say the same sort of thing, but say to me, there’s no such thing as absolute truth. And then I have to ask them, are you absolute about that? And is that a true statement? And because they’re not even thinking logically, they’re not taught to think logically these days either. So, everyone draws lines, it’s a matter of where you draw those lines, doesn’t matter how you define the terms. And so yes, we bring the consequences of generations that haven’t been trained to stand on the authority of the Word of God and now they do what is right in their own eyes.


You know, what I’m sitting here thinking, the images are in my mind of these kids really, 19-20 year old, some of them under 18, you know, storming the streets and spitting cops faces and the things that they’re doing. And as you described, you know, all week long we send them off to the school to have this philosophy of anything goes, indoctrinated them and then in church, we get our two hours on Sunday morning. How could we possibly think that that one or two hours on Sunday is going to outweigh five days a week of indoctrination?


Oh, you’re absolutely right. And that’s what’s happened. And you know, people need to understand, look, there’s no such thing as neutrality. And I think that’s been part of the problem as well. Is that many people have this idea, oh, well, you know, they’ve taken God and the Bible and prayer out of public schools, for instance, so now, that’s neutral. And you know, think as long as they go to church once a week or something, then they’ll be okay. But the Bible says, you’re either for Christ or against, you walk in light or darkness, you either gather or you scatter. I mean, you build your house on the rock or you build a house on the sand.

The point is that there is no neutral position. So, when they’re teaching naturalism in the public schools, in other words, teach, you can explain everything without God, everything by natural processes, that is the religion of atheism. That’s what it is. So, they’ve been indoctrinated with atheism basically for what, 5-6 hours a day and we think sending him to the church and hearing what they think are just Bible stories is going to counteract that.

And, you know, you can see the results of what’s happened with, as I said, the exodus from the church Generation Z actually are twice as likely to be atheist as any previous generation. The Millennials, only 18% go to church and is less than that for Generation Z.

And the American culture and faith Institute actually did research in 2017, certainly three years ago, and they found that only 4% of millennials believe in such a thing as absolute truth. So, you can see what’s happened. And, you know, now those younger generations, Generation X, Y and Z, I mean, if you compare them to the greatest generation and then the boomers generation, I mean, the boomers generation and the silent generation, so the greatest silent and boomers were much more Christianized worldview and believed in such a thing as absolute truth and what was right and what was wrong based on the Judeo-Christian ethic.

Now, we have generations X, Y, and Z that are much more secularized and to them, they decide right and wrong for themselves. So, it’s all subjective. So, it’s whatever they want to decide. And, that’s the schism that we’re seeing in our culture right now. And as X, Y, and Z take over as the dominant groups in our culture, this whole culture is changing catastrophically and will change catastrophically.


4%, you said 4% of the millennials said that believing in absolute truth and you’ve already given us several reasons for that. You mentioned another one of the reasons is that they are taught the answers to the tough questions that we don’t do the apologetics that we used to do from the pulpit and in churches. You’ve devoted your life and that’s what Creation Museum and Ark is all about, is answering those tough questions.

You see eyes open up a lot when they come out and they finally get answers to the tough questions. Why are we so afraid to take that stuff head on? We let the left in these universities, especially just dominate the discussion, because they challenged the premises and we never give our kids the intellectual ammunition they need. I’m so thankful for what you do. How do we do more of that and challenge pastors and say, don’t be afraid to answer the tough questions? The answers are there, we just think we’re outmatched intellectually somehow or something. I just can’t figure out when we cower down on these things.


Well, you know, I think part of it, it’s an intimidation. And pastors, many of them have this idea that, oh, you know, if we don’t believe in evolution, we’re being anti-science, because, this is where they don’t understand, I believe, science and they don’t realize what’s happened. Because the word science has been useful, you know, technology, building airplanes, computers and so on. But the word science is also used for evolution of millions of years.

And I know for people like ourselves here at Answers in Genesis, yeah, I can count on the Creation Museum. And that is that because the stance we take on Genesis, you know, we’re accused of being anti-science, anti-intellectual, you know, anti-academic and so on. And I think a lot of the Christian leaders have succumbed to that sort of pressure. If you believe in six literal days and you believe in Genesis and so on and you don’t believe in evolution, then you’re anti-academic, you’re anti-intellectual, you’re anti-scientific and they steer away from it.

And it’s controversial, because if you do teach on that in the churches, you’re going to get people who are going to oppose you. It’s going to create division. I think many conservative pastors even that believe what we believe in Answers in Genesis have said to us, we don’t really want to deal with Genesis because we know that there are some scientists or teachers or whatever that are evolutionists and it’ll cause division in the congregation, so we ignore it. But in the meantime, they they’re not teaching apologetics, not teaching generations how to answer questions that undermine the authority God’s Word in Genesis. So, they losing the coming generations and they recognize that and they don’t realize what has happened.

And there’s been an incredible lack of teaching of apologetics that is answering skeptical questions that undermine the authority of God’s word. Particularly beginning in Genesis, you know, how could now get the animals on the Ark? Where did God come from? What about the eight men? What about the millions years and so on? But not answering that.

But the other thing is that they haven’t been doing is raising up generations to think foundationally. And what I mean by that is to have a truly Christian worldview, you have to start from the revealed Word of God. I mean, if you’re going to teach to deal with the marriage issue, you got to start from Genesis where God created marriage. He created male and female. He created man in his image. He created man from gospel and from his side, that’s the foundation for marriage. What about the gender issue? Well, God created two genders in human, male and female, Genesis 1:27. How about the abortion issue? Well, God made man in his image. No animal has been made in God’s image. Only humans are made in God’s image. And that relates to the fact that at fertilization, you have a unique combination of information, a human being made in God’s image.

So, if you don’t teach foundationally beginning with God’s word, they will not have a Christian worldview and we’ve allowed them to have the foundation, it’s man who determines true, so therefore marriage is every one to define it. Abortion, well, we’re just animals and you know, we get rid of spare cats, get rid of spare kids. What’s the difference? Well, gender, well, why shouldn’t people change their gender if they feel like they want to be something else? And, you know, you define everything the way that you want it to be. It’s all based on feelings. It’s all subjective. And that’s where these coming generations are at sadly.


You just described in about three minutes right there virtually every cultural problem we’re facing and then what it goes back to in terms of basic truths. So, if we teach the basic truths, they’re more equipped to deal with these cultural issues that we’re facing. And as you describe the church and the pastor’s that would say, well, I just want to kind of keep peace out there with my congregation, makes me think of Patrick Henry, gentlemen may cry peace, peace, but there is no peace. The war is actually begun. This culture war is on. You’ve been fighting it for decades now. And I was just perusing the site, Ken, you’ve got something now called “Creation Apologetics Master Class.” And I didn’t tell you, I was going to ask about that. So, you had no time to prep for this answer, but that looks like a great place for people right now to start. Can you tell me a little bit about it?


Yeah, in fact, we’ve developed some online courses and we’ve upgraded them in recent times too, they’re very professionally done. And we guide them through what videos to watch and we have questions and so on and what articles to read and guide them through a course. And there’s six different courses.

Now, what we did because of the whole COVID-19 shutdown situation and so on, what we did was we just offered all those for $19 an hour. Now, they cost a lot more than that each and they cost a lot to produce, but we just made it into a COVID-19 special to enable people to be able to equip themselves with apologetics and in fact, thousands and thousands of people over the past few months have actually downloaded those courses. And they’ve been very, very popular because it walks them through, dealing with biology and geology and you know, the relevance of Genesis and Christian worldview. And those six courses will help people to be equipped in apologetics and we’re thrilled to be able to provide that for people.

You know, the other interesting thing we do, we want to be able to influence generations right from a young age. For instance, you know, at the Ark and the Creation Museum this year, 10 and under are free, because we can encourage people we have got to stop raising up kids at a young age right down the foundation of the authority of the Word of God.

And it’s another reason why this year, because most churches can’t do their BBS program, so we actually totally upgraded and provided an incredible BBS, totally free on our website for churches and families to do it and it teaches apologetics. We have science experiments. We teach biblical authority. We teach Christian worldview. And so, you know, that’s what we need to be doing right from a young age, raising up generations to stand on the authority of the Word of God, know what they believe, know why they believe what they do, have a truly Christian worldview, but be equipped with answers, so when they face as attacked, they’ll be able to defend it against those secular attacks of our day. That’s how we should be teaching in our churches and homes.


And as parents, as I know everybody out there listening, I know you want to say we all want our kids to be equipped to do that. And no, Ken did not ask me to talk about that class, I just saw it on the website and I strongly encourage everybody to go get at Last question, Ken. It’s a you’re in a state with a crazy governor and does a lot of the lockdowns and whatnot. Can people come and see the Ark right now?


Yes, the Ark is open, the Creation Museum is open and we’re getting people coming every day pouring in here. In fact, we’re thrilled with the percentage compared to last year, because even the secular attractions that have reopened are getting very small percentages compared to normal coming. And so, the Lord has been bringing people here and impacted and they’re so big. I mean, without outside grounds, I mean, I’m just looking on the grounds now, there’s so much room to social distance and the same through the Ark.

And as people come over from the parking lot and they walk through, there’s so much room and people feel safe here. It’s a safe place. It’s a clean place. It’s family-friendly. It’s God-honoring. And these are the sorts of places we need to bring your kids to, because they learn about God’s word, they learn about the gospel, we equip them with answers and their lives have changed and they’ll go away being able to be on fire for the Lord like they’ve never been before.


It is not an exaggeration to say there is nothing like it in the world, I’m telling you folks, it is amazing. 510 feet long. It’s a sight to see. But it’s not just looking at a structure on the outside, the intricate detail that you did on the inside and the story that is told as you walk is just incredible. is the website to get your tickets and get signed up to go see the Ark itself. And then Answers in Genesis, you got to get some of those materials and share them with your friends and family and get people educated on these things. Ken Ham, always a pleasure to have you brother. Thanks so much for your time today.


Hey, thank you. Anytime.


Stay with us folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.


Hey friends, Rick Green here. I know there’s a lot of crazy stuff going on in America right now, but we know God is sovereign. We also know that “duty is ours, results are God’s”. And that means we do our duty. You know, Proverbs 22:3 says “A prudent person foresees danger and takes precautions, the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.”

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We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Back with David and Tim Barton now. And thanks to Ken Ham for joining us today as well. David, Tim, of course, you know, this goes all the way back to the very foundations of truth. Is there a god? Did he create the world? I mean, those are the basics that we haven’t even taught, like you said at the beginning, David, even in the church.


It was interested in here can talk about how the fact that so much of what’s in the church has actually come out of the public schools, so that we had a generation where we replaced all the Judeo-Christian ethic with naturalism. And so, in that period of time, as everything went to naturalism, they didn’t care that naturalism entered the church setting with them and so they start questioning everything in church.

And the numbers he was going through and how only 18% of millennials go to church as opposed to 56%, well, what’s the big difference between the older generations and the younger generations? Their education. I mean, you’ve gone through two, three educational generations in that period of time. And the more you go and as he pointed out with Gen Zers, it’s only half of what it is with millennials who go to church. So, I mean, it really is a staggering proposition to think of how much education is impacting the church rather than the other way around.


And this is one of the things too, Rick, as you pointed out with some of the curriculum Answers in Genesis offers, there’re really are a lot of great apologetic tools out there for people to learn what truth is. I mean, frankly, I remember growing up watching videos of Ravi Zacharias or Josh McDowell and reading some Books and CS Lewis and reading mere Christianity and there’s a lot of people out there who you can utilize their resources to really equip yourself to know what truth is.

And one of the things that Ken Ham has documented and there’s many people who also identify this as well is when kids get a foundation of knowing what is true, even if there are seasons in their life, when they decide to live contrary to what they learned to be true, when they have the foundation of truth, knowing what the answers from Genesis actually are, that there is a God, He did create the world, He made the world of function in certain ways, when you do learn the basic foundations and you’re able to defend and articulate those, again, even if kids say, have a season that they walk away, what they’ve discovered is that there’s a much higher percentage of kids who are returning to faith later in life when they have the foundation of a biblical, apologetics and biblical worldview.

And this is where Answers in Genesis does such a great job of helping provide many of those tools and certainly, we would encourage them people that to go to Answers in Genesis, and you can find some of those resources. With that being said, there’s also YouTube. There’s a lot of free videos out there. There’s lots of things you can watch and lots of great apologist you can learn from to help you and your family know what is truth and how to defend it.


Check us out at today, folks, and again, that’s the place to make the contribution. We greatly appreciate you coming alongside us, locking shields with us, helping us to restore America’s constitutional republic. And that’s also the place that you can get archives of our program and as well get a list of stations from across the nation.

Now,, our main website, that’s the place to get the curriculum on the Constitution, all kinds of history of the Founding Fathers, all kinds of application in today’s society, have those timeless principles of liberty that our Founding Fathers gave us. So, check all that out at

And lastly, we’d love to have you come alongside us as a Constitution coach, actually, teaching the Constitution material that we teach in Independence Hall. You use our videos, we’re going to the library here at WallBuilders, all kinds of great information there. And one of the best things is that gives people hope for the future of our nation. It lets them know they’re not alone, gives them the facts and the evidence so they can be confident that these principles we have in our founding documents are in fact good and they do produce a good society. So, check that out at, that’s where you can sign up for free right now. During these 2020 COVID crackdowns, just all the chaos, we desperately need more people learning these things, so we are giving away the Constitution class there. You can sign up today to become a Constitution host or coach absolutely free. Check it out at

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