Democrats Want To Remove Non-Profit Status Of Biblical Companies: In today’s episode, we have special guest Tim Wildmon on to talk about how Christain groups are being attacked not only by the media but by congress now as well. Tune in now to learn more!

Air Date: 10/14/2019

Guest: Tim Wildmon

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, And when I say hottest topics, what I mean by that? I’ve been saying that at the beginning of our program for years now.

The hot topics are people talking about in the news – what are people talking about at the water fountain at work, at the dinner table, at home. What’s on the minds of Americans? What are the issues that are at the forefront?

Then how do you address that issue?

You address it from a biblical historical and constitutional perspective. And that’s certainly what we do here at WallBuilders Live.

We do that with David Barton because he’s America’s premier historian, and he has a great historical perspective on what the constitutional perspective is. He is also brilliant at a biblical analysis and knowing how to apply the Bible to today’s issues and circumstances. Of course, that constitutional and historical perspective based on his readings of the Founding Fathers. The largest private collection of Founding Fathers documents there in the Barton library at WallBuilders. An absolutely incredible wealth of wisdom that is there.

We get that both from David Barton and Tim Barton. Tim’s a national speaker and pastor. He’s our President here at WallBuilders, and my name’s Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator.

The three of us love bringing these programs to you. We get some great interviews, and we get to talk to about those hot topics of the day.

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Let’s dive into that biblical historical and constitutional perspective.

All right, guys, Tim Wildmon, will be with us a little later in the program. We’re gonna be talking about some of the attacks on Christian groups of today and how Congress is now a big part of that.


And Rick, I don’t know that it necessarily is all Congress. We certainly have a lot of good friends up in Congress who would not be supportive of this, but when you look at who’s kind of leading Congress, there are some people in leadership who are coming out and saying, hey, we are opposed to hate groups. I don’t know that any American is in favor of people being hateful and doing hateful things.

We’re Changing What The Definition Of A Hate Group Is

The problem is we keep changing the definition of what a hate group is. We have been on some of these lists where these guys are hateful; WallBuilders has been a bad organization.

We’ve seen many of these lists come out because we’re changing hate to be if you disagree with every position, right?

If you don’t hold our position or if you hold what has been a traditional biblical position, for the last hundreds if not thousands of years.

If you believe that marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman and that that human sexuality should be reserved for the marriage bed and everything else of that is wrong.

If you hold traditional biblical positions, it’s because you are a hateful person. But now Congress is beginning to identify groups they think, nope these are the hateful groups, and some of the groups they are picking seems a little ironic.


A lot of the groups they are picking tend to be what has long considered being normal ordinary traditional Judeo-Christian groups. Just biblical groups. Groups that five to ten ago nobody would have raised any question about them being a hate group because they are just like churches have been for the last four centuries in America.

Nothing really special about it.

Ordinary Christian Beliefs Have Now Become Hate Beliefs

But now we have so changed that to where ordinary Christian beliefs have now become hate beliefs. So a lot of what you’re seeing called hate groups is really just biblical morality.

But there is a change going in Congress. I mean, Rick, you mentioned Congress. Tim, you pointed out rightly, that a lot of folks in Congress would not be for where we are now.

For the first time ever in Congress this year, I was just told that they now have an atheist caucus in Congress. Now, we’ve never had that before, and there are apparently ten members in that.

I remember when former Congressman from California, Pete Stark, was recognized and given a big award for being the first open atheist in Congress, and that was all a long time ago. But it was still in the modern era.

So, we’re now at the point where we have an organized caucus, and the only reason you have a caucus formed in Congress is to help look out for issues and legislation that would be adverse to that belief.

An Anti-Religion, Anti-God Group

Now we have an antireligion, anti-God group looking out for beliefs in Congress. This means you’re going to go after the God-groups because that’s anti to what they believe. That would be a hate group from their perspective, I guess.

I guess this is why Democrats just three, four weeks ago, pass this national resolution recognizing their largest religious constituency, now get the term religious, their largest religious constituency is now made up of atheists and non-religious.

We are calling atheist and non-religious a religious constituency. The Democrats say that it is their largest religious constituency.

Therefore, by definition, if you’re anti-religious, non-religious, that puts you on the opposite side of pro-religious and traditional religion.

That’s where the hate stuff comes in. They hate what traditional religion has stood for even though it’s done so many beneficial things. And yes, there have been those that claiming religion over the years have done really bad things.

But that’s not what the religion teaches. That’s not what the Bible teaches.

There’s A Polarization Going On Right Now

You got this polarization going right now and this really is a new thing in America.

Now, Democrats do have control of the house. We’re seeing them target groups that have existed for decades that have always been great pro-family groups, and now they’re haters.


Yeah, some of our good friends like Tony Perkins from the Family Research Council. Tim Wildmon from the American Family Association. We can go down the list and a lot of these are notable names. Yet they are being targeted as hate groups. So, we thought, OK, if we’re going to have a good conversation, let’s just get one of these guys in the line.

Tim Wildmon, American Family Association

We thought let’s call Tim Wildmon from American Family Association on to talk about what it’s like to be a hater because apparently, that’s what he is now defined as.


I can’t believe we’re about to have an interview with one of the leading hate groups in America.


At least according to some Democratic leaders in Congress.


All these guys that they’re naming, and gals, as hater are some of the salt of the earth, most awesome people on the planet who love the Lord; love people and have dedicated their lives to try to make people’s lives better by improving the country and defending freedom. So it’s quite ironic.

But here comes one of those supposed haters, Tim, our special guest Stay with us. We’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.

Front Sight Handgun Training Course

Hey friends! Rick Green here, from WallBuilders Live! What do Dennis Prager, Larry Elder, Ben Shapiro, Rick Green, Tim Barton, David Barton – what do all these folks have in common other than the fact that they’re conservative commentators that defend the Constitution and educate America on the Constitution?

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It’s actually going to cost you 1/10th the normal price to attend this two-day handgun training because you’re going with us. And, you’ll also get the Constitution crash course. I’ll be teaching on the Constitution.

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Check out today to join us on this Front Sight trip for both your constitutional and handgun defense training.


Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilder’s Live. Tim Wildmon, with us from American Family Association. Always good to have you Tim. Thanks for some time.


Rick, I appreciate it very much.

Until They Close Every Christian Church In America


I love hanging out with my fellow “hate group” folks, especially when it’s the left calling you that.

Hey, we are trying to love everybody, trying to expand freedom, and you get called a hate group. Now you got congressmen trying to take away your tax-exempt status. What is going on?


Well yeah, the secular progressives in this country will not be satisfied until they close down every Christian church in America and any organization that does not bow their knee to homosexuality. That’s basically what it comes down to.

There are some other issues that they’re big on that they want to force their way onto the American people, but that’s their number one thing right now.

That’s The Litmus Test 


That’s the litmus test for whether you’re a hater or not.


Yeah. If you don’t agree if you have a belief that homosexuality is sinful, you, by definition, are a hateful person or a hate group.


Tim, you’re not talking about just a few crazy people on the Internet calling you that. These are official lists from groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center and other organizations where they label us like this.

Then we get the real hate directed at us. I mean we saw what happened with Family Research Council they had the shooting there.

Not All The Gays And Lesbians Act Like This


Oh, let me tell you. you know this. Let me just say this: not all the gays and lesbians act like this, OK? A lot of them do know that they have families who disagree with their lifestyle but they still love them.

Nobody hates anybody despite what the SPDC and other groups say.

But it served their purpose characterize us and other groups and Christian denominations; who hold of this belief this traditional Christian belief that’s been around for 2000 years.

It benefits them if they can scare the mess out of the rest of the world, to say these groups are akin the KKK or neo-Nazis or skinheads. Do you know what I’m saying?

They try to make people believe that’s who we are, for example.

They Take Caricatures


Right. They take caricatures from either caricatures from years and years ago, of a poorly chosen delivery of a message by certain individuals. Or they take these skinheads and crazy people of today and they try to lump all of us in with them.

We don’t think or act like them.


They do that on purpose. Most of them who do this, they know what they’re doing, this Southern Poverty Law Center.

They know they’re taking the words out of context. They’re taking five quotes over a 40-year period from somebody of, somebody of somebody who appeared on American Family Radio. American Family Association said something they can construe as hateful speech. So yeah.

We Are In A Real War On This

Anyway, that’s what happened. We are in a real war on this.

What’s happened in Washington is now the Democrats are in control of the House of Representatives. They set the agenda in terms of meetings and conferences and things they want to talk about – their agenda if you will.

Well, the House Ways and Means Committee that’s a big powerful one. That’s the one that discriminates for money.


That’s right. That’s a powerful one. They do the tax code so they get to decide.

How The Tax Code Subsidizes Hate


Yeah well, they have what they call an Oversight subcommittee within the House Ways and Means Committee. They held a hearing on this topic: how the tax code subsidizes hate. That was the name of their hearing.

The point of it is, for these Democrats is: if they could have their way, they would strip groups like ours from having a 501(c)3 tax-exempt status because of our view on homosexuality.

Now how do we know this? Because they tweeted that out. They tweeted that out.

They Tweeted It Out

From the official Ways and Means committee. They called us by name. American Family Association along with some other groups.

Here’s what they tweeted out, Rick, as evidence that the American Family Association is a hate group. They quoted either our magazine, I guess it was or wherever. This quote was something we would say.

They quote us, again, keep in mind when I’m reading this is what they’re used in against us to define us as a hate group. We said, “homosexuality is a poor and dangerous choice and has been proven to lead to a litany of health hazards to not only the individuals but also society as a whole.”

It Is Absolutely True


Tim, you know I think that same quote used to be used by the Centers for Disease Control. So the U.S. government used to say that exact same thing. Didn’t they.


Bingo. Yeah absolutely. Why? Because it is true.

That kind of behavior is dangerous because it’s unnatural, and it’s unsafe for obvious reasons.

You’re doing things with your body that are not intended. So males mate with females. That’s pretty obvious, right?




If men have sexual activity with other men, that’s going to lead to disease and going to lead to emotional and other kinds of problems. Why? Because you’re going against God’s natural law.


For having that position, they say you shouldn’t be able to be a non-profit where people can get their tax deductions.

This Is How Extreme These People Are


That’s right. The very fact that we mention the healthiness of this activity makes us de-facto a hate group. This is how extreme these people are.

You Love Them And Are Trying To Make Their Life Better


That’s like saying if you point out the dangers of alcoholism and the pain it can cause someone or their family that you hate the person taking the drink. That you hate the alcoholic when, in fact, you love them, and you’re trying will make their life better.


Bingo. Exactly. Exactly. This is what we’re facing. No us alone but what the Christian groups and conservatives –

They’ve got Sixty Groups On The List


Like, sixty groups, they’ve got on the list. Sixty groups.

I gotta ask: how is it that even their language of government is subsidizing this?

How is government subsidizing us as non-profits when it’s the individual that’s donating to the non-profit and not giving the government as much money?

The government isn’t subsidizing anything. It’s there. It’s the individuals who are directing where they want their help to go.

Anyway, that’s a whole other topic.

It’s A Misuse Of That Word, Subsidizing


I agree with you on that. It’s a misuse of that word, subsidizing.


Well, so they haven’t actually filed a bill yet.

They just had the hearing. I guess they dragged out a bunch of folks to talk about how evil we are, I guess.


This is why it matters.

I know we all get a little weary sometimes of especially national politics because it’s an ongoing soap opera, seemingly up there. But it has real-life consequences and we are in a war.

Basically They Are Communist

It’s not just a war between Republicans and Democrats. It’s a war between – I call them secular, they call themselves progressives, their regresses.

Nancy Pelosi would be in the middle compared to these people, and she’s far left.

This new group is up there, like the squad. People out there who believe like the squad does; basically, they’re communist.


Yeah, you watch them speak, and it’s just vitriolic. You can tell how angry they are.


Yes. So there’s a war there going on, and we have to have enough on our team up there to fend this off. Bog it up. Stop it. Stop this kind of discrimination from happening.

They Can Do All Sorts Of Things


Well, even being able to have these, when you’re in charge of the house; when you give the left control of the House, they can do these kinds of things. Whether it’s the impeachment of the President over something that is not even impeachable at all or it’s having these hearings.

Whoever’s got control of the House is controlling the narrative.

Even if we say all we can block it in the Senate, you still have this kind of thing happening for sure.

You’re right, I mean, this is why we have to be in this in the political fight to get good people elected to get a majority that doesn’t do this kind of thing.


Yeah. There was a day in our country where you could say there are good people on both sides, and there are bad people on both sides. Talking about Democrats and Republicans, you got to watch them all.

They’d Put Us In Prison If They Could

Well, let me just say this: one of our major political parties namely the Democrat Party has been taken over by these people who hate Christianity and hate conservatives.

They want to see us out of business completely.

They’d put us in prison if they could. Really they would if they could. They were if they could.

If they were unchecked, they would put us in prison for having our beliefs. These are the people we’re talking about.

So, we’ve got to continue to stand firm. We’ve got to continue to send people to Washington who are conservative, who is going to stand up.

You See What They Are Doing To President Trump Right Now

You see what they are doing to President Trump, right now. He’s not even an evangelical Christian. But he has a lot of people around him who are, and he believes in a lot of the same values that we do.

I’m not saying he’s not a Christian. I don’t know his heart. But I’m just telling you, he’s not one of us. He doesn’t come from our background, everybody knows that, but he still stands up for the right thing most of the time, especially when it comes to judges and the life issue.

We’ve got to continue to do what we can, or else we are going to lose our rights and lose our freedom and lose our country.


Yep, amen brother. Keep up the good work on your end. We’ll keep doing what we’re doing here. We’ll keep loving people even when they call it hate, and keep loving people and speaking truth. That’s what this is about.


Amen Rick, good to talk to you.


Brother, appreciate you coming on. That was Tim Wildmon from American Family Association and American Family Radio. Stay with us we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

America’s Hidden History

Hi, this is David Barton and, this is Tim Barton, and we want to let you know about a series that’s happening right now on TBN on Thursday night. TBN is the Trinity Broadcasting Network. Every Thursday night, there’s a series that we’ve filmed called America’s Hidden History.

And, this season is called “America’s Hidden Heroes.” The reason is, we highlight heroes from American history. For years we’ve been focusing on the forgotten history and heroes of the nation.

And now, we have a T.V. show just highlighting some of those heroes.

These are inspiring stories about some of the greatest people maybe you’ve never heard about. We go on location to the sites and show you where the events happened. It’s the stories of folks like Bronco Charlie, Stagecoach Mary, Jedediah Smith, Robert Smalls, and so many inspiring folks.

Now this happens every Thursday night and the time is gonna be different based on where you live. Either way, we think this is something that will so encourage and inspire you and learning some of these great stories for America’s hidden history.


Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live.

Thanks to Tim Wildmon for being with us and also all the great work they do at American Family Association.

Back with David and Tim Barton now.

Guys, I’m glad we get to work with these folks that Southern Poverty Law Center calls hate groups, and I’m glad they’re not actually hate groups. They are folks that love people and love the Lord and love the work that they do.

I should throw this to you guys as we start our final segment, the ones that started this whole hate group thing, Southern Poverty Law Center; they have been now called out for fraud, for defamation, for false statements, I mean all of those things happening.

So, hopefully, some of this will get cleaned up, but that language has really taken hold in the culture – this whole, you’re a hater if you disagree with me.

The Irony In The Ways And Means Subcommittee


Think about the irony of what’s happening in the Ways and Means subcommittee.

We can have a hearing on hate groups like American Family Association, or on Antifa and Indivisible.

By any common definition of hate, I think Antifa is the one you want to focus on, not the one that’s trying to promote traditional families. It is so ironic but that is now the twist of the mindset of leadership in the House of Representatives.

They hate American Family Association more than they hate Antifa or Indivisible or all these other groups that are causing riots and violence. That’s not as bad as having someone like Tim Wildmon, the American Family Association.


Yeah. Because Antifa opposes capitalism.


That makes them good.


Right. Antifa has good motives even though there are abusive to basically every group that doesn’t side with them. Even though they respond in violence, even though they’re beating up grandparents, even though; go down the list.


By attacking police officers.

The Levels of Irony


Right. I mean the levels of irony because, kind of the standard M.O., is if you are trying to have your side win then you can never cite anybody on your side who does something bad.

And so if Antifa is on your side supporting your views, you can’t call them out when they are wrong, even though it’s easy to identify what they are doing is wrong.

Then for your side, to win you have to villainize the other side.

How do you make villains of them? You have to find labels that are associated with negative raw emotions. If somebody is hateful,l we don’t want to deal with that.

They’re just so hateful to people and how they treat people.

You have to associate these raw emotive filled adjectives to the other side to make them the enemy. This is what we are seeing. They’re targeting the other side, making them the enemy not based on their behavior but because you don’t agree with us. Therefore, you are hateful.

Go Back To Their Thinking


Well, when you talk about beliefs, Rick, this is a really easy way to answer the question you raised about how did they think we’re subsidizing; how is the government subsidizing a non-profit?

Go back to their thinking. Their thinking is that everything you own belongs to the government. Every bit of income you make is theirs. So for you to take any of your income and give it to a group like the American Family Association, you’re taking the government’s income and giving it. They are therefore subsidizing.

So if you have that, it’s not even socialism it’s way past that. It is on the verge of communism, but it doesn’t have quite that tone yet that violence.

The aspect of everything you have is the government’s, that’s how they can come up with saying that they’re subsidized and stuff like this because they think you exist to serve the government and your income exists to serve the government.

That’s Part Of The Fallacy We’re Seeing In The House Of Representatives

That’s again, part of the fallacy of the bad thinking that we see now out of the House of Representatives. The leadership in the House of Representatives, those who are over committee chairs, and those who are over committee sub-chairs. These are the leaders of the Democrat Party, and this is what they believe, and this is what they’re doing.

That’s Why These Elections Are So Important


That’s why these elections are so important. That’s why every believer has a responsibility to vote.

It has an impact on our lives. It has an impact on our backyard, our families, our churches, and our freedom -the freedom to speak, the freedom to live out our faith, all of those things. That’s why we’ve been given this wonderful talent of freedom.

This gift that God has given us. The master has laid it at our feet; given it to us. When the master returns, what are we going to say about what we did with that talent? Did we bury it and not participate in it or did we actually invest in it? Work it, multiply it, and make it possible for others to enjoy that same freedom?

That’s What WallBuilders Is About

That’s what we’re about here at WallBuilders. Rebuilding those foundations, rebuilding those walls as it says in Nehemiah, arise and rebuild the walls that we may no longer be a reproach.

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It is a great part of what we do and is what makes it possible for us to have the impact that we’re having. It’s getting great results because of you. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much for supporting. We appreciate your listening to WallBuilders Live.