Electing Georgia’s Senator, Speaker Of the House – And More!: It’s a new year; but the same tried and true biblical principles still apply to the world we face. Today, we bring you updates on the 2020 election. How was Big Tech trying to influence the Georgia runoff? Did even half the House vote for Nancy Pelosi? What’s going on with the Louie Gohmert lawsuit? Does Congress even know what the 12th Amendment says? What happens in the Senate could change the course of our nation. Tune in to understand what the main-stream media won’t explain!
Air Date: 01/04/2021
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Faith and the Culture
Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live, where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith and the culture, always from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective even into 2021. Yes, it’s here, 2021, can’t believe it. David Barton, America’s premier historian here with us, Tim Barton’s with us, national speaker and pastor, president of WallBuilders, and my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator. Check us out at wallbuilderslive.com.
David, Tim, here we are in 2021, still trying to figure out who the President is going to be even this week as Congress will be meeting to make that decision. But actually, before we get to the President and what’s going to happen on Wednesday, the 6th, just a little thing happening over in Georgia on the 5th, just a small thing.
Yeah, we actually were out in December, guys, as we vividly remember doing a little traveling around the state trying to encourage Christians to get out and vote. And actually, even as we’re talking today, if you are in Georgia, we would encourage you make sure you take part in this senate runoff that it’s happening, these two Senate seats. And certainly there’s lots of voters guides, you can go back and listen to previous programs where we’ve talked about some of these candidates, some of the positions where they stand.
We definitely think there are two candidates who are much better than the others, because freedom is always better than socialism, and so we’re always going to lean that direction. The same thing with being prolife, profamily, pro-religious liberty, pro-marriage, pro-Israel, those are always things that we’re going to endorse.
In the midst of that, knowing there is this big senate runoff, it’s happening. Social media and the big tech giants have been at it again. The two Republicans running in Georgia both had issues on Facebook, where they had ads blocked, data that was stopped, and this is for Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue. And Facebook said that what they were doing on Facebook, and so this is donation sites for their campaign.
What’s Been Going On In Georgia
So just like everybody who remembers them for the presidential campaign, how there were ads, everywhere you go, every single day you’re seeing stuff about voting for Trump or voting for Biden or voting for a congressman or senator in your state, wherever you are, that’s what’s been happening in Georgia.
And on Facebook, strategically, the Republicans have said, let’s make sure we take out ads so that all the people that might be on our side, we can encourage them. And Facebook said no, no, that offends our community standards. So Facebook actually blocked their ads for violating their standards and then Facebook got called out on it. They had a spokesman come out and say oh, that was actually a glitch, our mistake. We are really sorry. We weren’t targeting you. We didn’t mean to stop your ad.
Why is it glitches only happened on the conservative guys, glitch has never happened on the liberal guys? That was just a glitch. Yeah, sorry about that. That’s crazy.
Well, right now, I mean, this is where we’ve seen some of the issues with the big tech, with social media. And even as people are still debating how much fraud did or did not take place, it’s unquestioned that Google and some of these major search engines social media, they certainly played a major part in the election by the censorship of conservatives, of Republican voices from what they claimed to be their independent fact-checkers that are pretty much just fact-checking conservatives, and oftentimes very incorrectly in their fact check, we have to correct their fact checks later, etc. Nonetheless, that was an issue going on. At this point has been corrected in Georgia, but you still see big tech playing a hand in what’s going on in these runoffs.
Conservatives Must Vote
Yeah, and those things matter. I mean, a day of fundraising and getting the word out when you’re in the last week of a major election like this, that’s a huge deal. So I mean, it’s not that this stuff does not have an impact, even if they correct it 24 hours later or 48 hours later.
Yeah, and this is a big deal in Georgia going on and we do need people to turn out. And by the way, I’m looking at polling here that says that there’s a fairly sizable block of conservatives that are not going to vote in Georgia. Now, first off, I don’t think you can call yourself a conservative and say, you’re not going to vote. I mean, conserve, you want to conserve the constitutional republic, the easiest way to do that is by voting. So how can you be a conservative and not vote? That doesn’t make just a whole lot of sense to me.
But if there are people who bought into this notion of it’s voter fraud, and it doesn’t matter how many conservatives votes that, whether it’s Dominion or whatever some of the machine, they’re going to skew it or whether they’re going to stop the counting in the middle night and bring in suitcases of illegal ballots.
I can see where people would be disheartened, where they would feel they were being disenfranchised and they’re discouraged and want to stay home. But that’s not really a good answer or good reason. And certainly we would say as Christians, that’s not the right answer, because God’s called us to be faithful regardless of the outcome.
What If You’re Wrong?
Yeah, that’s it.
We do our job, even if somebody else is cheating in the process, it doesn’t stop us from showing up and doing what we’re supposed to do. But certainly, we have seen people that self-identify as conservative saying they would not take part in this election because they think it’s a rigged election anyway.
And my question is what if you’re wrong? What if it’s not a rigged election these guys lose by one vote and you’re the guys who didn’t show up? So I mean, for me, that’s inexcusable, because you will answer for what you do or don’t do. And in this case, look in the polling, here’s how it breaks down.
55% of those who are called very conservative that are not voting, of those very conservative who say they’re not voting, 55% say the process is rigged. And here’s how it breaks down even more. 14% of that group says, I just don’t have time to vote. I’m not buying that. You got time to do anything you want to have time to do.
You can’t use that excuse. 12% say their vote doesn’t matter. That’s like saying you don’t have time. How do you know whether your vote matters or not? You won’t know till this thing is over. You can’t predetermine that. 7% say they’re not casting their ballots, because they’re boycotting the runoffs.
Tell me how that’s going to work out for you? Let’s get to progressive socialist in there and tell me how your boycott worked out. 22% don’t like the candidates. Okay. So that happens in a lot of elections. You have a choice sometimes between the bad and the worse, but you got to choose the one who’s the least of the two. So all of these are not going to answer for very conservative say, this is why I’m not voting.
A Massive Turnout
And with all this being said, there’s already been a massive turnout for votes in Georgia. We know that polling that came out over the weekend showed there was already more than 2.5 million people that had voted in Georgia, 1.7 million people that had voted in-person, almost 1 million people that were requesting absentee ballots that will actually almost a million and a half people requested absentee ballots, but almost a million of those absentee ballots had already been turned in by people who were voting.
And so what they’re indicating now is this is on track to be the same level of turnout that it was for the presidential race. And that is huge because generally in a runoff election, you don’t have that big turnout. And kind of like if you look in the off year elections where the two years after we have the presidential election, and you’re electing members of Congress or senators or governors, whoever it is, usually, the turnout is much lower because the President is not involved.
And so this is where certainly, it is interesting to see how many people are turning out. And with all that being said, there’s been more than half a billion dollars, more than $500 million dollars already spent, that was by the weekend, it had already been spent. I think I saw numbers as high as $540 million had been spent from the candidates in this election trying to get people to turn out. So that that is a massive number.
With all that being said, one of the things we’ve pointed out many times is that these Senate seats really can have the potential to make a massive difference in what happens in the future of our nation. Because if you do get Joe Biden, who is the president, and you do have Nancy Pelosi, who now we know is the Speaker of the House…
Nancy Pelosi Wins By…
Barely, barely, barely, I love the fact that she didn’t even get the 218, that’s majority of the House chamber, she got the majority of those who voted. But she didn’t even get to the 218 threshold, which is half the House voted for.
Which is interesting, because there are many Republican pickups that they’ve shifted some of those numbers. We know there’s still a couple of outstanding seats and also seats that have to be filled out because of death and other things going on. But certainly, if you’re looking at Joe Biden being president, Nancy Pelosi being the Speaker of the House, then if the senate goes Democrat, then what you can expect is some very far left crazy liberal policies:
Very socialist agenda kind of stuff, packing the US Supreme Court, looking at removing college debt, things that are extreme that ultimately could destroy the nation the way the founding fathers had at birth created intended from the constitutional declaration perspective. It would forever fundamentally change our nation.
And so these two Senate seats are very, very important. So we’ll say again, if you are in Georgia, or if you’re listening, you know people in Georgia, call them, make sure they voted. If you’re in Georgia, make sure you show up and vote. This is very important and not to be melodramatic or overdramatic and say the future of the nation could depend on this. But literally, it could be the difference of our nation leaning into socialism or holding socialism off a little bit longer based on what does happen in the Senate.
So certainly get involved in the process, make sure if you’re in Georgia, you show up and vote. Don’t be one of those people who identifies as conservative and you think it’s rigged, you’re not going to show up. No. You do the right thing and leave the results in God’s hands, but you be found faithful in what you know you need to do.
The American Story
And be a force multiplier. Let your friends and family know who you’re voting for. Put out the information on social media, a lot of people don’t know as much as you do. If you listen to WallBuilders Live, you are more informed than most people in the country when it comes to these things, so share that information with your friends or family. Quick break, guys, we’ll be right back. You’re listening WallBuilders Live.
Hey, guys, we want to let you know about our new resource we have here at WallBuilders called The American Story. For years, people have been asking us to do a history book, and we finally done it. We start with Christopher Columbus and go roughly through Abraham Lincoln. And one of the things that so often we hear today are about the imperfections of America, or how so many people in America that used to be celebrated or honored really aren’t good or honorable people.
One of the things we acknowledge quickly in the book is that the entire world is full of people who are sinful and need a savior, because the Bible even tells us that “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” And yet what we see through history and certainly is evident in America, is how a perfect God uses imperfect people and does great things through them. The story of America is not the story of perfect people. But you see time and time again how God got involved in the process and use these imperfect people to do great things that impacted the entire world from America. To find out more, go to wallbuilders.com and check out The American Story.
We’re back here on WallBuilders Live, thanks for staying with us. So we talked about the Georgia race, of course now, let’s see what, two days away from the January 6th showdown in Washington DC at the Capitol where the electoral ballots will be opened. And Tim, one of our good friends we’ve had on the program quite a bit, Louie Gohmert in national news over the last week with regard to how the ballots will be counted.
Louie Gohmert’s Lawsuit
Yeah, and a lot of this was resolved already over the weekend. But just in case people don’t know, Congressman Gohmert, who as you mentioned, a very great friend of the program, really great Congressman, former judge from out in East Texas. He filed the lawsuit where he was actually suing Mike Pence and it was interesting that you would sue Mike Pence. Like what did Mike Pence do that you thought he needed to be sued? It’s interesting.
But what his lawsuit was trying to do was deal with things, partly from the 1887 electoral count act, declaring that some of that was unconstitutional in the way that it placed limitations on how you could count or disregard certain Electoral College votes. He wanted, essentially, the power to be put in Mike Pence’s hands that Mike Pence could determine in some of these states, for example, like Pennsylvania, where there was just last week, these allegations made there were more than 200,000 more votes than eligible voters in Pennsylvania.
And so Louie Gohmert wanted Mike Pence to be able to look at the slate of electors from Pennsylvania and say, no, we’re not accepting your slate of electors because we see fraud there. And Louie wanted Mike to have a lot of power as this executive to be able to throw out electoral votes from states where it does appear that maybe there was fraud. And so that was a lawsuit that was initially filed. Now, a lot happened after the filing of that lawsuit. A lot of things took place over the weekend that have really kind of stopped some of that lawsuit. But dad, I know we’ve talked a lot about this and you have some information on that too.
Yeah. It’s not surprising that the House of Representatives that is the Democrats in the House of Representatives came out opposing the lawsuit. They said no, no, no, the Constitution says how this is supposed to work and not the Vice President says how they’re supposed to work. And the Constitution says that Congress is the one who makes these choices, not a single individual in Congress. So they’re saying if you do this, you open the door for all sorts of stuff. And that’s not surprised that they would oppose this.
What Will Mike Pence Do?
What’s interesting is also opposing the lawsuit with Mike Pence. Mike Pence had attorneys from the Justice Department represent him, and he came out and said, whoa, I don’t want to be the one in this lawsuit, I don’t be the one doing this, and I don’t see that suing me has, I don’t want discretion over the count, I want this to be a constitutional process.
And they said to sue me over the count, that’s a walking legal contradiction. I mean, I’m supposed to make the count, and you’re suing me for making the count.
And so they’re saying that, in his brief talked about how that he is Vice President in his capacity as President of the Senate, he’s not going to overrule the Constitution in Speech and Debate clause and the other branches of government, etc. So it’s interesting that Mike Pence also came out along with the Democrat house, saying, look, I don’t think this lawsuit is right. We oppose what Louie is trying to do here. Appreciate the fact Louie wants this done, but even the Vice President said, don’t think this is the right way to do it.
Well, and just to clarify, that was the Department of Justice attorneys that did that, not necessarily Mike Pence, they did it in his name. But I don’t know that we’ve had much indication from Pence himself as far as what he thinks his powers are as Vice President.
And I’m probably more of a fan of the lawsuit than you guys, just from the standpoint of I think these constitutional questions have to be answered. And I do think the Vice President has significant power in this process and has been used before by previous Vice Presidents, Jefferson and Nixon and Gordon, to name three.
A Lot Is at Stake
So I’m glad Louie sued. I think it raised the right questions, and I think he had standing. And I’m really upset with the court again, for using the technicality of standing in a case where if Gohmert doesn’t have standing as a congressman, is going to be sitting there on Wednesday, having to make some of these decisions. I can’t imagine who would.
Well, and to clarify, as you’re pointing out, the final result was dismissed by the federal judge. It was filed in East Texas and actually, Gohmert had people from Arizona who were able to also sign on to this…
Well, that’s actually the Republican electors from Arizona, because they’re saying, hey, we got a lot at stake here. I mean, we’re the Republican slate. We think there was fraud in Arizona, and we as the electors, we think we’re supposed to be the actual electors, not the Democratic electors because of all the fraud in Maricopa County, etc. So actually, you would think that they would have standing immediately because who they are.
Right. So the judge dismissed this case and said that Louie Gohmert did not have standing, but also, interestingly, he said that these group of electoral slates, people from Arizona also did not have standing. But part of what he also said is that this lawsuit could not be remedied based on how you’re filing it because Mike Pence has done nothing to offend in this lawsuit, so you suing pence doesn’t resolve the grievance that you have, which on some level does kind of make sense.
Constitutional Questions Must Be Answered
And Rick, to your point, certainly Vice Presidents do have a lot more opportunity in power in the senate than what we’ve seen most vice presidents operate in that capacity. What we’ve seen for Pence and actually probably we have a couple of details we can highlight before we’re done with a program where Pence has been fairly open to people saying, hey, I think you ought to challenge if you’re a senator, if your congressman, you ought to challenge this, let the process play out.
But also, Rick, one of the things you pointed out that I think is very noteworthy in the midst of this is this really not only we answering constitutional questions that need to be answered, we are helping the American people have the opportunity to have one of the best constitutional lessons we’ll ever have seeing how the constitution actually works, which certainly, you know, we’ve done several WallBuilders like Constitution Alive, and we’ve done so many Zooms and so many webinars and so many conferences, teaching about the Constitution, the operation, and the function, but usually, we’re giving more of a 30,000 foot view and we don’t get into the details.
Now we’re seeing much more of the details, the operation, and the process, how these things play out. And I think it’s really beneficial. Even if we don’t get all the results we want in the initial with elected officials, it is still very beneficial for the American people to see the way the process works, and then if there are things we don’t like, let’s get involved, and let’s get engaged, let’s change who those leaders are, maybe how the process happens in the future. Certainly, we have the power to have constitutional amendments to do things, but at least we’re learning how the process works.
The 12th Amendment
And apparently, not only the people, we the people need that, but some US senators like John Cornyn, who apparently does not even know that under the 12th Amendment, if nobody gets 270, it goes to the House and the House votes by state. He thought and publicly said that if nobody gets to 270, if these electrodes were thrown out, then it’s going to go to the house and Nancy Pelosi is going to get to choose who the President is. This is a United States senator that’s been there for 20 years, and was the Attorney General of Texas before that, that doesn’t even know how the 12th Amendment works.
So that part of the 12th Amendment, you know, very, very clear that that if nobody gets to 270, then it goes over to the House and they vote by state, not by individual House members. So if it’s not 435 and Nancy Pelosi doesn’t get to choose the next president, it would be by state and it would have been a republican under that scenario.
It is less clear under the 12th Amendment what you do, prior to that point if you have a conflict, you know, the House is saying except these electors in the Senate saying reject or vice versa. That’s why they did this 1887 Electoral Count Act, which should be called the “Electoral Confusion Act”, because it’s so poorly written, nobody knows for sure how this thing is supposed to work.
So there does need to be some things cleared up. In fact, I’d love to see a constitutional amendment that replaced that 1887 Electoral Count Act and had a procedure here where if House and Senate both say reject them, they’re rejected; if they both say accept when they’re accepted, and if they disagree, that’s where the vice president would be the one to break that tie between the two chambers. But we just don’t have that that guidance and I think that’s what Louie was really asking for was that we would have something clear going into January 6th, instead of a free for all on the 6th and then having to figure it out.
The Horrendous 1887 Law
Well, there certainly are things that we live with the Constitution in the application today. We certainly look and go, now wait a second, that’s not what the Founding Fathers probably intended or would have wanted, but I even think the Founding Fathers, when they talked about they weren’t even sure how long the Constitution would last because they’ve never seen an example of a Constitution last more than a generation or so and actually, usually much less than that. And so they created this amendment process to say, look, we think it will need to be corrected and improved and changed along the way, as people see new things and deal with new problems.
And even though we’re not in a brand new problem, certainly, we’re in a situation that does need some clarity. And this, again, is where I love the fact we’re learning some of these constitutional lessons, we’re seeing the application, we’re seeing the process, we’re seeing how it works, but also maybe seeing some areas where there does need to be some amendments, so it does need some clarification so that this is not a confusing issue going forward of how do we resolve this conflict? Instead, we have it in writing in legislation of this is what we do and how we do it and then we don’t have these issues in the future.
And the problem with doing it through a federal law instead of a constitutional amendment is that with what they did with the 1887 law is they literally gave additional powers to the House and Senate and took power away from the Vice President and we wouldn’t allow the president to lose his part and power through a federal law, right? That’s a constitutional power that they were given.
So there does need to be something done here to fix this. That’s why they tried to do in 1887. And maybe Ted Cruz has the right idea. I mean, he’s basically trying to do what they did in 1876 which is okay, if we can’t agree, let’s have a commission or let’s at least have a commission to investigate. So we have facts to vote on rather than just hearsay in the media.
Well, let’s take a quick break, guys. We’ll be right back, folks stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.
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We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. It is January 4th, which means tomorrow is the big day in Georgia. Everybody, make sure if you’re in Georgia, you’re getting out and voting and let your friends and family know to do the same thing. And then the next day, January 6th, will be the big day in Congress where the electoral ballots will be opened. And who knows what happens after they’re open guys?
It’s Going to Be Interesting
Yeah, it’s going to be an interesting process. And just to kind of wrap a bow on some of the last segments, just in case people are wondering, the lawsuit that Louie had that was dismissed by a lower Judge, he did appeal it over the weekend. And I think was on Saturday that the three panel Judge from the Fifth Circuit said, essentially, they sign over the lower court that you’re suing the wrong person, Mike Pence is not the person who is has done anything wrong here, so you need to find a different target for this lawsuit. And so essentially, it looks like that is not going to go anywhere at this point.
But depending on what we see happening in this Georgia runoff election, what we can kind of expect to see on the 6th to this point is we expect both in the House and Senate for there to be people, Congressmen, Senators who object to the electoral votes and objecting to the vote does not change certainly how those electoral votes are going to be cast, whether or not it’s Trump or Biden. But what it does is in if there’s objectors in the House, objectors in the Senate, then they have up to two hours to then debate that slate of electors…
And that’s for each state. So if they’re seven states they object to, you could have 14 hours of debate, but it’s two hours for each state they object to.
So could be a long day, which also that then is also going to be based on the leadership of the House and the Senate. And so what Pelosi, what Mitch McConnell determine is allowable time, and I cannot foresee that either of them are going to let it go for two full hours for each states, they’ll probably try to squelch that a little bit and keep it down. But if they determine in this process that there are states that there was fraud in, they could throw out some of these states electors.
270 to Win
And then if it gets below 270, that’s when then it would go to the house, like Rick, you’re mentioning with the 12th Amendment, the House would determine the President, the Senate determines the Vice President. So a lot going on, but still a lot yet to be determined.
Now, what happens is, we know that there’s going to be objections to the States, we know that more than 140 House members say they’re going to object to the results. So we know that’s going to happen, and we know that and Mo Brooks from Alabama is really kind of the one who’s put that together and now it’s really kind of grown just on its own. So 140 some odd is the last we heard, we’ll see how many actually are there or how many are needed actually. All it takes is…
Courage is contagious.
That’s right. But all it takes is one, even if 139 didn’t say anything, all it takes is one. And on the Senate side, it was dubious for a while how many were going to do it, McConnell said don’t want any of you to do it. Well, now there’s somewhere around 11-12 senators and Ted Cruz’s kind of put that group together. And it’s interesting that Ted has also as you mentioned, Rick, is calling for that kind of commission, that 10 person kind of commission look over like they did in 1876. Now, here’s what I think is the most amazing thing out of all of this.
Alright, Ted Cruz leaving the senators to object what you can do under the 1887 law, which goes back to the 12th Amendment, he is calling for the commission like we had in 1876. And now Democrats and Congress are asking for him to be arrested and tried for the crimes of sedition and treason simply for asking for that commission. This blows my mind. He no longer has a right of free speech. You got members of Congress asking for him to be arrested for treason and sedition? You got to be kidding me.
Yeah, it’s utterly ridiculous. And this is where again, Mike Pence said that he would welcome those objections in the House and the Senate that he’s not opposed to that. So we do see that Pence at least is in favor of this constitutional process playing out on some level. We definitely know there’s Republicans that are going to oppose it, we know there’s some that are in favor of it. But it’s going to be very interesting just to watch and see what happens on the 6th.
And it does take a majority of the House to side with the objection majority of the senate side of the objection. And we do know that there’s a lot of Republicans that are not going to side of the objection, already, Pat Toomey and Lisa Murkowski and Ben Sasse, and Susan Collins and Mitt Romney have all said, we’re not going in with the objection. So it’s going to be really hard for them to do it. But it still is going to be a process that needs to be played out, it’s worth playing out. It’s going to be interesting to watch.
Electing Georgia’s Senator, Speaker Of the House – And More!
And if the house was to follow the 12th Amendment protocol, right, for how to vote in a situation like this, they would vote by state and we’d have a better chance of winning in the house than we do even in the senate with the particular makeup of the Senate. But I don’t see them doing that without the Supreme Court actually interpreting that part of the 12th Amendment for us. So it’s going to be interesting. Break out the popcorn, get ready, January 6th will be quite fun to watch, if I can use that word fun. I think interesting is a much better word.
At any rate, be sure and listen in, we’ll be commenting on it the day after. And be sure and go to wallbuilderslive.com and get signed up for a Constitution class and you can dive into some of these details yourself. We’ve got our new Biblical Citizenship in Modern America class coming out in the next few days as well. So start getting your friends and family together, get educated, get people running for local office. That’s where we really need to be thinking past January 20th, and start saying what can I do in my community to make a difference?
Thanks for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.