Get The Latest Updates – Does Alito’s Order Bring New Hope For Trump!: What did Justice Alito’s order mean for Pennsylvania? Are legislators in key states finally deciding to take responsibility? Could legislators in Georgia and Michigan change their electors? Did Judge Timothy Batten make the right decision in dismissing Sydney Powell’s case? Tune in to get the latest updates on the election and much more!

Air Date: 12/08/2020

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live, we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, the culture, and the election, of course, always from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. I think we need to add just an analytical perspective, because it seems like that’s what we’re doing with the presidential election, just having to do that as we continue to dive into these numbers and these conflicts and lawsuits and everything else that’s been found.

Sorry to leave you hanging, audience, I know, we started our barnstorming tour yesterday for you, and sharing some of those great presentations from David and Tim and Barry Loudermilk, Michelle Bachman and all that, at least we got a little taste of it yesterday. We’re going to keep bringing that to you throughout the week. But today, there is so much to catch up on the election, we’re going to dive into that. You can get more of this at our website, 

We’re right here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders, and Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator. Guys, let’s not waste any more time. Let’s jump in. I know we got a lot to do and a lot of states to cover today.


Yeah, and let’s our Pennsylvania one of the things that just happened with Justice Alito came out and change the deadline for the response from Pennsylvania. And for those of you who remember, Pennsylvania is one of many states that had some election law changes late in the game. And Justice Alito came out and pointed out that you need to make sure you hold apart the ballots that came in after the allowed election date by your law, which had been kind of arbitrarily changed by some Judges.

What is Justice Alito Saying? 

And he said, you need to keep those separate, you need to have response, we need to look at this. And initially, he said the response for arguments for December 9th, but then he moved that up to today. So it was going to be tomorrow, but instead it is today, he said that you need to have all this information back.

And so the fact that he’s changing the deadline a little bit indicates to a lot of people that it’s very possible, this will be something that the US Supreme Court is looking at taking up. And so as we’re now very quickly approaching the day when the Electoral College is going to be placing their votes, because states are finalizing what happened. And shortly after this is when you get to start considering Vice President Joe Biden, is when people want to call him President Elect Joe Biden. Well, that can only happen after the Electoral College. That’s what they do and that’s coming up very quickly.

So the fact that Justice Alito is saying that you guys need to figure out your business, get this back, responding to us sooner, so that there could be an appeal to whatever the result is going to the US Supreme Court. So it looks like this is certainly a case from Pennsylvania going to the Supreme Court, which does give the Trump campaign some hope that there might be a different result coming out of Pennsylvania.


And Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz was looking at this, and we’ve talked about him a few programs earlier. He’s been a typical liberal Democrat and the old school liberal. He does not have an agenda. He is not a progressive that sets aside truth. He’s the old school kind of liberal, that still respects truth. And so in looking at it, he says, well, the fact that they’re doing this indicates that they’re probably going to make a decision on what happens literally with the states making the call.

The American Public Wants to Know

And so he was asked specifically about what do you think all the claims had been made about Giuliani, all the claims of fraud and etc? And he says, well, this is his quote, he says, “There certainly is probably cause for investigating and looking further. Giuliani has made very serious accusations.” And here’s the important part of what he said.

“The question is, which institution is designed constitutionally to look into it? Is it the state legislature that looks at fraud? Is that the courts? Is the clock running in such a way that there won’t be time to look into this?”

And that’s talking about the December 14th thing with the Electoral College. So he asked three really important questions there. But he said “The American public wants to know if Giuliani is correct, or if he isn’t, and I love the fact he’s not taking a position.” He said, “We just need to find that there’s evidence, there’s a lot of claims, let’s find out what’s true.” He said, “I don’t know whether we’ll find that out in time for the meeting of the Electoral College.”

And Ken Starr was asked about and he was the former prosecutor with the impeachment of Bill Clinton, and he’s a law professor and head of a law school, etc. And he said the same thing. He said, this going to take an extraordinary action by the legislators to get this done, and he just didn’t know if there was time to be able to do it.

Here’s what I thought Dershowitz said there was really good. He says, “What Giuliani has presented is the retail evidence, but it has to be determined to be true by cross examination and witnesses. And that’s really key.”

We’ve heard a lot of claims, seen a lot of clips. We’ve heard a lot of affidavits, seen a lot of affidavits. Now, the Bible says one side sounds right until you hear both sides, Proverbs 18:17. That’s where we’re getting to right now. We’ve got a lot of claims, now we’re going to see what evidence there is.



Well, guys, if you jump over to Michigan, it is one of the states that now is throwing out one of Sidney Powell lawsuits. And this is where some people are saying where she was going to release her cracking and now they’re saying the cracking was not effective because the lawsuit’s being thrown out. It’s rather interesting to judge the US District Judge that throughout this lawsuit is Linda V. Parker. And Linda V. Parker said that the voting irregularities that were charged are being claimed by Powell is really nothing but an amalgamation of theories, conjecture and speculation, that this would disenfranchise the vote of more than 5.5 million Michigan citizens, etc. And just goes through why this lawsuit needs to be thrown out.

In this article, were actually many articles about it. But several of them point out that Judge Linda Parker was appointed by President Obama. And so this is where just in the era we live in, you have to start wondering, are some of these lawsuits really going to be based on political motivation as far as what the result is from the Judges?

And one of the things that there’s criticism from the Left against the Right, criticism from the Right against the Left, and one of the things that is now guys a very difficult situation we are in, it’s very hard for people on the Right to take a lot of these things as being serious or honest, because there’s been a lot of lies said for certainly, the last four years during the Trump administration, there’s been a lot of political moves made even by Judges that have been activist and extremist.

And so on some of these situations, you look and go, okay, well, was it really that Sidney Powell was not able to present evidence that this is being thrown out? Or was it because there’s a political motivation? And this is where it now becomes difficult for us to even navigate through some of these decisions after there’s been so much dishonesty, there’s been so much corruption from the media perspective alone that now when there’s media reporting, or we already know, there’s activist Judges, so that is this being a Judge being an activist or this is a Judge who actually honest? It’s like, no, I don’t see any evidence.

Throwing Out Sidney Powell’s Lawsuits

It makes it difficult to kind of examine and evaluate what’s going on with this Sidney Powell was saying that this is not over, there’s going to be appeals, etc. But it does make our job more challenging to navigate through. Was there lack of evidence?

Was their political motivation? Was there bias? And it makes it difficult to trust the honesty of the process when we’ve seen so much dishonesty for so long. But at least right now in Michigan, this is one of the States that has thrown out one of the Sidney Powell lawsuits. So some of these options look like they are narrowing as far as what Trump’s campaign team has in some of these States.


And you may recall that several states, there were several lawsuits in those States, and Michigan’s one that had multiple lawsuits. So while the one with Sidney Powell was thrown out, we had another one that went forward. And this suit was brought by a voter challenging the stuff there.

And as part of that suit, the Judge is actually moving forward. They’ve allowed a forensic audit of 22 of the Dominion voting machines. Now remember, Dominion has been the one all over the news for the last month about their machines cheat and the Smartmatic software cheats, and you know, the machines are really rigged and bad.

Well, now, we’re going to have a forensic audit of 22 of those machines that happened this week. And we’re waiting right now for the information to come back off the results of the audit. What did the forensic auditors find? We’ve seen affidavits?

Remember these auditors saying that they see things that give them great concern? Well, now they’re inside the machine, and they get to see what’s there. So that’s a big deal that’s happening in a parallel lawsuit in Michigan.

State Legislatures

But it’s interesting that Giuliani is commenting in what he’s seeing as this is going forward. Because, as Tim pointed out, it doesn’t look like the courts are moving forward with this. A lot of the Trump lawsuits have been thrown out of court or dismissed or found the wrong direction, etc.

So Giuliani has been calling on State legislatures to call for the electors to be changed for that state. And he was he was talking about with this lawsuit in Georgia. He said that, well, it looks like the legislators in Arizona and Georgia or Michigan might change their Electoral College voters.

He said, the Georgia legislators have a petition going right now, they have a special session there. And, and he thinks the same will happen in Michigan, Arizona as well. So Giuliani is starting to really look to the State legislatures as maybe a way to get this thing rectified or what he sees being rectified if all that fraud is actually true.


And guys, I know it’s one of the things we’ve talked about in some of these States that there is a Constitutional option here. If the state legislator identifies it does look like that there was fraud or fraudulent behavior, if it looks like the election was not a good election, then the State legislators can come in and appoint those electors. Now, with Rudy Giuliani saying it looks like a lot of states are moving that direction, it’s probably at this point more wishful thinking than reality for some of these States, even though there are some State legislative bodies that are giving indication they might be thinking about that.


But for example, Pennsylvania came out and very strongly announced that they would not be taking any steps to appoint their own electors to the Electoral College outside of the election results, even though those are being contested. And now’s where it gets interesting because the State legislative body, which are Republicans and Pennsylvania, are saying that they’re not going to step in and overturn the election and then appoint the electors the way they think it should go. They’re going to just more or less trust in the election and rest on that.

Well, there’s still questions about what’s going to happen with the election and then there’s going to be a US Supreme Court appeal. And this is what Justice Alito was referring to, they need to get all their business in order and they need to give a defense of this by actually today, because it looks like this is the case going forward. So there’s still a lot undetermined. There’s still a lot happening in the States.

But at least for some of the things that are being said, at least where Rudy Giuliani says it looks like the States might step in and change these electoral assignments, there’s not great indication that’s going to happen in all these States yet, although there certainly are state legislators in those states that wants to do that. Just not sure that they will have the majority or the votes, they need to actually make that happen. And right now, at least we know, in Pennsylvania, their state leaders that are Republicans are saying that they are not going to change that at this point.


Yeah, the momentum seemed to be going that direction in the last few days, you know, 70 something legislators in Pennsylvania calling for that and then many in Georgia doing the same and in Arizona. But you’ve got to have a majority and you got to have the leadership in that state legislative body, bring them into session. Some States, the governor’s got to call them in, some states the legislature can call themselves in. But it’s going to take strong leadership from somebody to do that.

An Opportunity for the House and the Senate

Now, they’re kind of their fallback at this point, I think the Pennsylvania legislators are saying we’re essentially going to call on our congressional delegations on January 6th to object to our own electors that have been set. And so that’s going to be the next play after the electoral vote on December 14th. The next one is going to be January 6th when they actually open those ballots.

There’s an opportunity for members of the House and Senate as we walked everybody through last week to object. And so some of these State legislators are now sending letters and resolutions to their congressional delegation saying be ready, we want you to object on January 6th. So it’s again, still maybe a few weeks.

Guys, we’ll take a quick break, I know we got several other States we’re going to get to. Folks, you can find out more at You can listen to the archives from previous programs to catch up on some of these states as well. Stay with us, you’re listening to Wallbuilders Live.

The American Story

Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders called The American Story. For so many years, people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that’s just not known or not told today. And we would say very providentially in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project that say America is evil and everything in America was built off slavery–

Which is certainly not true or things like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not out of statement, Black Lives Matter, but the organization that says we’re against everything that America was built on, and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There’s so many things attacking America.

Well, is America worth defending? What is the true story of America? We actually have written and told that story. Starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln, we tell the story of America, not as the story of a perfect nation or a perfect people, but the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It’s a story you want to check out, The American Story.


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us catching you up on some of the election news from the last couple of days and we talked about Pennsylvania, talked about Michigan. We were, of course, ourselves in Georgia last weekend, and a lot of enthusiasm, a lot of hope, both in the senate race and just the future in general, but also for the presidential race. We even had some legislators with us at these events, and of course, they’ve been calling for a session calling for even possibly a redo of the election. And the Secretary of State there, I guess is kind of the roadblock at this point.



Well, yes, and Rick, let’s go ahead and point out while we’re talking about Georgia, for all of our listeners in Georgia, the talk that maybe you shouldn’t vote in Georgia to show your frustration to G Governor Kemp or the Republican party or whatever else, that is nonsense. Make sure when the time comes, early voting, get out there vote, vote on Election Day, make sure that you vote. We would say this, bottom line as Christians that we’ve been called to be salt and light, and we don’t take elections off. We show up and we try to make a difference in every single election we can. So obviously, it should go without saying but we said just to make sure, make sure you vote in this election.

So one of the things that has come out, and I’m reading an article about this with Governor Kemp. President Trump has certainly slammed Governor Kemp on many occasions that he’s not showing leadership he needs. It does seem like Governor Kemp has differed in several scenarios to the Secretary of State, which actually is the Secretary of State’s job to do some of this election stuff. So Governor Kemp certainly could put more outward pressure on him and maybe that would really clarify some things, at least for the frustration for many Republicans outside the State of Georgia, especially there’s some inside the state as well they’re not seeing the leadership they would like.

But Governor Kemp came out and pointed out that when President Trump said you need to do voter verification, he says, look, I’ve tried and I’ve said several times I agree with the president, we need to do this voter verification, but that’s not something I can do. And so this is where maybe people are criticizing he’s not being as strong of a leader as he should.

And this is really where the Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger is the one who’s supposed to do this. And Brad said, well, it’s not really up to me, it’s up to the courts. And this is where you’re like, no, wait a second. I’m pretty sure the Secretary of State’s office is the one in charge of the election. So it would sure seem like that you ought to be able to say we’re going to do voter verification. That shouldn’t be a court decision issue.

Governor Kemp


And he’s the one that violated the Constitution by doing the agreement with the Democrats back in March to modify election law without the legislature.


Yeah, it’s already on him. So yeah, it does seem like he is a small into the funnel, and now he’s trying to throw off his responsibility. So it does seem like he’s not being a good leader.

He’s not very conservative, and he’s really kind of throwing President Trump under the bus on this. But just a little clarification, that Governor Kemp said he is in favor of that vote verification, but the Secretary of State saying well, there’s nothing I can do, it’s up to the court, which does seem like a little bit of a dereliction of duty or lack of leadership, a lack of backbone, whatever the case might be.


And I’ll have to say, you know, I think Governor Kemp and the Attorney General in their tweets last night, and their statement yesterday are completely wrong on what the Constitution says and what the power of the legislature is here. He absolutely could call them in a special session and give them the opportunity to act on this.

But he and the Attorney General are saying, we don’t believe that the Constitution gives the legislature the power to choose electors. So I think they’re absolutely wrong on their constitutional interpretation there and I think they frankly are blowing it in what they’re doing with Georgia. But that’s just my opinion.

The Right Decision


Also going in Georgia, Sidney Powell’s lawsuit in Georgia was dismissed in Georgia just as it was in Michigan. And the Judge in Georgia said, look. He said, “You’ve had a lot of conjecture, you’ve presented a lot of theories. There hasn’t been the evidence.”

And so, he says I’m not willing to overturn the vote of the 2.5 million people who apparently chose Biden. And I have to say, I really appreciate the fact that a Judge is not trying to assert his will over what he thinks the voters is if he doesn’t think he has the evidence. So Powell has said that she’s going to appeal this to the US Supreme Court.

But going back to what the judge said, I think he made a really significant point here. He said “There’s no question that Georgia has a statute that explicitly directs that election contests are to be filed in Georgia Superior Court. He says they are state elections, state courts should evaluate these proceedings from start to finish.”

And you know, I’ve got to agree with them on that. The Constitution puts elections in the hands of the state, and I wondered why she went into federal court with this rather than state court. I think they were just trying to get it further down the road faster knowing that eventually get there. But he did. I think he did the right thing there by saying, look, this is not a constitutional issue we deal with. This belongs to the states and then after that we can get in.

And so Linwood who had another lawsuit there in Georgia, that lawsuit was also dismissed. And when it was dismissed, he appealed that onto the Eleventh Circuit, and the Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals and the three judge decision they came back with the 20 page opinion. And the three judges on this are Barbara Lagoa, she was on the shortlist with Supreme Court along with Amy Coney Barrett.

Not Activist Judges

You also had Bill Pryor back from George W. Bush, he’s a really good Judge, really good guy, had been their state Attorney General. And so out of the three guys, two of these are really strong constitutionalist. And they said, we’re not going to overturn what the Judge did lower and drop in this case.

And here’s what their quote, they said, “The constitution makes clear that federal courts are courts of limited jurisdiction. Us Constitution, Article Three, we may not entertain post-election contest about regarding variety issues of vote counting and misconduct that may properly be filed in state courts. So again, they’re reading the Constitution and I can’t object to what they’re doing. I wish it was somewhere else. But I really respect the fact that the federal Judges have cited the Constitution as the basis of what they’re doing and they’re not trying to be activists.


And guys, there’s more than just what’s happening in the judicial level. In Georgia, there was appointed investigator who was looking into the mysterious ballots that had showed up. And now there’s been videos that people have seen and people from under tables, taking boxes or suitcases and whatever is going on with these ballots.

And so, this guy named Watson was appointed to look into this and Watson came back and said, I have seen nothing that can’t be explained away. It doesn’t seem to be these mysterious ballots, they all seem to be legal.

And essentially, there’s an article that goes through and detailing what Watson found and why he thinks it was acceptable and permissible, even though there was a water leakage, actually, it was a urinal overflowing, so people were leaving. What’s missing from his investigation is it doesn’t get into why observers left, why the media left, why people thought that they were done counting for the night. And then when all observers were left, when the media was gone, they start recounting.

Where Did the 2400 Come From?

So there are some aspects that you would feel like, well, this might be valid, why were people told to leave the room and then recounting started? His investigation doesn’t cover that. It is marked, however, that investigation is still open. So, some of that information could come out. But at this point, the State of Georgia feels certain that those ballots that seemed very mysterious, actually are legal ballots, at least based on this investigation.


And one other thing from Georgia is that there is now another lawsuit filed, this time by the Republican party of Georgia and this time, but President Trump but is filed in a state court, which is where these Judge had been saying it should have been, and this is own fraud. They point out in this suit, that they’ve got just short of 3,000 felons that voted. There were 66,000, who were not old enough to vote. T

here were about 2,400 people who voted who weren’t on the voters rolls. You had about 15,000 who had changed their address and moved out. There were 40,000 people who had not registered. And so they go through and show just tens of thousands of votes that were illegal under Georgia law. We’ll see where that lawsuit goes. But it’s now filed in a state court, which is what the federal court said should have been happening. We’ll see where this one goes.


Alright, guys, well, Georgia seems to be the center of the political universe right now with those Senate races, let alone all this that we’re talking about on the presidential race, but there’s still a lot going on in other states, few states we haven’t covered out of those remaining five or six battleground states with lawsuits. I’m sure there’s still stuff happening in Nevada and Arizona. Do we have anything new there?



Yeah, actually, in Nevada, there was a lawsuit that was just thrown out. And Judge James Russell wrote that the Trump campaign did not prove under any standard of proof that any illegal votes were cast, or counted, or legal votes were not counted for other improper or illegal reasons. And the votes that they were alleging did not exceed greater than the amount of votes that he lost by. And so the Judge wrote that the campaign did not prove that the defendant or any person acting either directly or indirectly on behalf of the defendant was given or offered to give anything of value for manipulating.

One of the accusations was that they were people actually paying like $500 gift cards, buying votes. And this judge said, we saw no evidence of that, which is it does seem like an awful strong allegation to not be substantiated, that people were being paid, that some of these different Native Americans were being paid with $500 gift cards to vote, and he’s saying we didn’t see that. Now, with all that being said, the Trump campaign said we totally disagree with everything you saying, and we’re appealing to the Nevada Supreme Court. So it looks like this is not over yet. But at least at this point, the case has been dismissed.


Jumping over to Arizona, a near neighbor there to Nevada. You recall that, that as Tim pointed out, Giuliani was calling on the Arizona legislature to appoint a different slate of electors because of alleged fraud there in Arizona. And so the Republican speaker of the house there has resisted that. And he says, I’m not convinced by the presentation I saw that all the fraud is there that they claim.

But here’s this quote, he said, “But even if such evidence existed, the Arizona legislature simply couldn’t do what it’s being asked. Under our state’s Constitution, the legislature can act only when it’s in session and the legislature could call itself into a special session only with the support of a bipartisan supermajority of its members.” That won’t happen.

A Special Session

So under the Constitution, they have to have a special session, because they’re not in session. Now to have a special session, you have to get both parties to have a supermajority to agree. There’s not a Democrat in the state of Arizona that’s going to agree with this.

So under the requirement of their state Constitution, what it takes to convene a special session, if they were to appoint different electors, they got to get the Democrats to go along with that, and that’s just not going to happen. So it looks like Arizona has run into a roadblock on anything else they can do outside the legal venue.


Well, and also in Arizona, there was a Sidney Powell’s lawsuit there and there was a federal Judge who came out and denied a request from Sidney Powell. The request was that they would extend the time that her team had to present some of their case because there was people that, guys like Russell Ramsland, we’ve talked about before, who is this kind of IT specialist. He’s a white hat hacker who looks at these voting machines and is able to identify there’s a lot of problems and vulnerabilities in some of these Dominion voting machines, among other things.

And the Judge denied the extension of time for Sidney Powell team that they have one hour essentially to present before this Judge. And Sidney Powell said may we have three hours because we have more evidence and we want to have expert witnesses come and testify? And the Judge had no, you get one hour.


And part of the Judge’s explanation was that what we’re what the hearing is really about is solely on the arguments presented and the motion to dismiss. So it’s just saying does this case have merit or not, which in my mind, I’m thinking that’s where you would like to have some expert witnesses to validate the fact that this is a significant situation and therefore it should not be dismissed. But that’s where things stand right now with Arizona. There’s more stuff happening in Wisconsin, which we really don’t have too much time to cover now.

Needless to say, there’s still a lot going on a lot of fights that are happening, a lot of things still being disputed. And we will be coming back every day this week to try to give you some more information just to keep you up to date, so that we know how to pray going forward and so that we know really where we stand, and how we need to be activated, engaged, and involved in what’s happening in America going forward.


Yeah, you know, I’m sure there’s a lot of our audience that as they hear that suits dismissed, this suits dismissed, that they’re possibly getting down. And so we want to encourage them to know, hey, listen, our duty doesn’t change, regardless of what happens here. And from a practical perspective, most of these suits need to get dismissed in order to get appealed all the way up to where we’re headed, which is ultimately the US Supreme Court.

Get The Latest Updates – Does Alito’s Order Bring New Hope For Trump?

But regardless of what happens in the lawsuits, regardless of what happens in the recounts, and regardless of who is sworn in on January 20th, we have a duty and responsibility, the nation has been awakened, we’re trying to awaken the church and that’s what you can do as a listener. You can be a part of really instigating that in your community, actually being the catalyst for a restoration of biblical principles in your community so that we can once again bring this nation back to those principles that actually worked.

So be sure to check out today, get some of those materials and get ready to start hosting biblical citizenship classes in your community right after the 1st of the year. Be sure to tune in tomorrow, we’re going to get the election update and then also dive back into some of that barnstorming Georgia fun that we had over the weekend as we encourage Georgians to get involved, not just in those US Senate races, but get involved in your culture.

Thanks for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.