Election Audits, Finding Truth, And More – On Foundations Of Freedom: What happens if election audits show Trump won the election? How can pastors preach truth on current events? Why is understanding basic economics important? Why doesn’t the United States have a standing military? Should you make your voice heard to your representatives…even if they are someone like Maxine Waters? Tune in to hear the interesting answers to these questions and more!

Air Date: 06/17/2021

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.


Abraham Lincoln said. “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts; not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live, we’re talking about all the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. You can learn more about us at our website wallbuilderslive.com. You’ve joined us on a Thursday, so it’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday.

We love diving into these foundational questions, and you get to send them in. Send us questions at [email protected] So the email is [email protected]

It can be about the founders, the Constitution, about legislation right now in your state or in your community or at the federal level, whatever your questions are, send them in, and we will do our best to answer them from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

I’m here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders, and Tim Barton, national speaker, pastor and president of WallBuilders. And I’m Rick Green, former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. Looking forward to diving into your questions; and by the way, at that website, wallbuilderslive.com.

It’s great opportunity to come alongside us. You can make a contribution right there. And it helps to expand our voice, reach more people, get on more stations, spread the good news, get truth in the hands of Americans, so they can help restore our constitutional republic. So consider doing that today right there at wallbuilderslive.com.

David and Tim, first question today comes from Virginia. And it is from Nicholas and here’s the question. “With all the audits on the election going on, If it gets overturned? What would happen? Would Trump be sworn in? Would Biden and Harris get booted out? Would Pelosi become the president until 2024?”


Lots of questions, lots of audits going on, guys. And man, I’ve been getting this question from folks, just everywhere I go. What happens if these audits were to actually show that we got the election wrong in November? What do you guys think?


What happens is it is not going to change the results because the results were certified. And that’s a big word, they were certified. So what’s happening now and you’re seeing an increasing number of even counties. For example, recently, a new Pennsylvania county said we’re going to audit our election.

We saw county in New Hampshire say we’re going to audit our election. There are audits popping up all over the place, and is not to overturn the last election, is to make sure this never happens again in a future election. So at this point, what we’re saying is look, the horse’s out of the barn, the water’s under the bridge, whatever little idiom you want to use, it is not going to change the results of this election.


And as some people might argue, but they certified inaccurate results, if in fact, any of these things happening in states, if it turns out whether it’s Arizona, Pennsylvania, if it turns out there was fraud and therefore they certified in accurate results, then that means that certification shouldn’t count, there will be a lot of those arguments.

But constitutionally, and this is where even I mean, I think the Supreme Court would uphold this decision, is that even though it might have been bad information, because it was certified, all you can do at this point is say then we’re going to make sure that never happens again.

And for some people, it would bring some level of indication saying so glad to know that where we saw so much smoke, we’ve now exposed the fire so we can root out this corruption, certainly, it would have an impact on states changing some of their voting protocols, etc. But even if the certification was based on bad data, bad information, it would not change the fact that it was certified. And therefore until the next presidential election, this is just the way it is.



And by the way, I’ve got a comment on a mystery that is just the strangest head scratcher to me. And I’m going to use a bunch of idioms from my generation. But you see what’s going on with the audit that’s currently going on in Arizona, and it is turned into what our generation called a spitting match. I mean, it is just going back and forth. And it is so weird because the legislature saying we want to audit the results, particularly in Maricopa County.

And the Maricopa County Commissioners in charge of the election, and by the way, the legislature in Arizona is Republican. And the board in charge of the election in Phoenix is Republican. Of the five members on the board, four of the five are Republicans, only one Democrat on the board member in Maricopa County, in Phoenix.

And so what’s happening is you’re having the Republican legislature say hey, we’re subpoenaing the machines. We want to see that. We want to say the ballots. We want to see everything. We’re doing a hand recount.

And it is the Republicans in Maricopa County saying keep your hands off our machines. There was nothing wrong, we did it right. And is the most fascinating thing to see Republicans suing Republicans and the Republicans in Phoenix fighting back.

It’s like, guys, if you’re convinced your election in Phoenix was fraud-free, oh my gosh, let them do the audit and then step back and laugh at them and say see, we told you so. You just wasted $3 million in state funds. We told you it was good.

If you’re convinced it was a good election, then what are you scared of? What do you fight? It makes no sense. But they have, each side is dug in now, and it is a turf war going on in Arizona.

But that is one of several areas that’s doing an audit recount, but it’s not going to change the results. And Tim, as you mentioned, it’s been certified. Now if it turns out that we find out several states, Georgia, whatever else that it would have changed the election, it’s going to make that administration seem very legitimate, and they will lose any moral basis on being able to move forward with policy because people will just reject that.



Well, this is going to be asterick that many baseball players have by their name, because of the steroids use, right, there, Barry Bonds, different guys who for some of these athletes were very talented, but they cheated in the process. So there’s always going to be an asterick by their name of what they were able to accomplish.

And certainly, they were being asked by the presidency, Joe Biden with what happened. And on some level, and many of our minds it’s already an asterick, because of the way the news got involved and big tech censorship.

There already was a lot of games being played in the election. Even if the votes were largely legitimate, we already know there was a lot of news cover up and big tech censorship. Nonetheless, it certainly would change the dynamic of the way or the perception, even more so than many people already see this presidency.

But it would not change the overall outcome of the election. It would have to be the next election where we get a different presidency. But those states could shore up the election laws and fix problems in their state.


Yeah. And that’s the real goal. It’s about what we’re looking at for the future and making sure that anybody that did manipulate the process knows we’re watching and knows that they’re going to be investigated, you know. So that’s part of it, is making sure we’re not encouraging cheating, or encouraging manipulation of the process by just ignoring it and moving on, which is what a lot of people are trying to get these states to do.

So I say hats off to these legislators, to these county leaders that are willing to continue to push and continue to do these investigations. Because it does send the signal that hey, you’re not going to get away with this in the future. You may have got us on this one, but you’re not going to get away with it in the future. Alright.


And so our next question comes from Joe, he’d been listening to it was George Barna. We had George Barna on just a few weeks ago. He said, “After listening to the podcast, I came up with a question. If a pastor wants to preach biblical truth concerning current events, how do they find out the truth on current events?

I don’t feel you can rely on the mainstream media anymore. And as an example, maybe there’s not a biblical answer to this since there weren’t gas prices back then, just look at gas prices. Some would say it’s the policies of the Biden administration, other say it has nothing to do with the Biden’s administration. So my question is simply where can you go after listening to your program to get the facts anymore?”

So you know, obviously Joe’s asking, guys, there’s things we don’t cover on the program. That’s a specific one. It’s actually a good one. You know, how do you determine who’s at fault for these gas prices? Where do people go for truth these days?


Yeah, we were encouraging people and Barna was too, that pastors need to address truth from the pulpit. They need to address current issues with truth. But as Joe points out, how do you know truth? Because look at the controversy with Fauci. I mean, Democrats are lining up saying no, no, no, no, he was right.

Republican are lining up, saying no, he’s cooked the books. He keeps flip flopping. Where do you get truth? And this is exactly what a jury has to deal with in any trial. You have to listen to all the evidence and say, well, you know, some evidence is more credible than others.

The scumbag guy that’s been on drugs on the street he testified, but you know, he’s got a long police record. I don’t give him as much weight as I give the Catholic priest who came in and told what he saw. So you have to weigh the evidence. It all goes back to hearing both sides. And if you have a source that is not proven itself to be trustworthy time after time after time, like the mainstream media that picks and chooses what it wants, you don’t give it as much weight.


And so right now, if you start looking at gas prices on the web, you’re going to get articles attacking Biden, articles defending Biden, how do you know what it is? And this is where you have to weigh the evidences. This is something, Tim, that you’ve done a lot of.

You teach young people how to. This is the process of learning how to think. How do you test all things and prove that which is true? We covered this recently in the family seminar for American Journey experience. But this is what you do in the summer with young people at the Summer Institute.


Well, it really just goes back to thinking through the Socratic method where we’re really learning to question on both sides. Is this right? Is this wrong? Is it good? Is it bad? How do we know?

And unfortunately, there are so many things happening in culture. It is a very hard deep dive to continue to navigate all of the craziness that is happening. But with gas prices, gas prices are going to be a very much downstream impact of decisions that were made very far upstream.

And so honestly, I would go way back and say, okay, part of this effect is going to stem from the fact that President Biden is changing some of the energy processes in America saying that we’re going to close the pipeline, we’re going to go green. And in the midst of this, there’s, obviously, levels of hypocrisy with him saying we’re closing down things in America.

But over in Russia, we’re going to prove extra pipelines for them, we’re going to lift sanctions on them and tariffs. And we’re going to change things for Russia. We’re going to change things in German.

And Biden met with Angela Merkel and they made an agreement, yeah, it’s great for y’all to have more oil and more pipelines in Germany, but we’re not going to do in America. There’s obvious levels of hypocrisy which you can address on some level.


But it’s also worth noting that some of this notion of going green, there’s a balance here of the notion of going green. Because clearly a biblical perspective says that God has made us to be stewards of the earth, that we are to have dominion, to be fruitful, to multiply, that we’re to rule over the earth. Well, as people ruling over the earth, we should be good stewards of the earth.

But it’s also something worth recognizing that when we look at the earth, we have to remember even what Paul wrote in Romans that we don’t begin to worship the creation rather than the Creator, that there is a created order, and man is actually higher than the earth.

And God put things here that were subject to man, whether it be the plants, or the animals, the land itself that we could go, and we could grow crops, and we could do things. And so the earth, although we want to be good stewards, we certainly can utilize the earth and the resources God put in this earth, for the benefit of mankind because man is greater than the earth. The Bible says God made man a little lower than the angels.

And so, part of this is getting back to a biblical worldview. And part of the worldview is, is what has impacted the gas prices is a secular worldview, that says it’s more important to save the earth while at the same time we’re going to fund Planned Parenthood; we’re going to remove the Hyde Amendment.

We’re going to encourage abortion; we’re going to promote this different idea in elementary school of human sexuality and gender ideology. What you are seeing is a clash of worldviews that’s having this negative outcome at the gas prices.

But I want to go back beyond the gas prices to say, where is this stemming from? And that’s where, again, part of the Socratic method: you’re investigating, you’re having a conversation, the good, the bad, you’re digging a little deeper.

And this is one of the things that first of all, I applaud that a pastor saying, how can we find the biblical truth because we want to teach biblical truth? A lot of times you have to go past the surface level to see what are the things beyond that that’s bringing that fruit to bear where we are?



And one of those things would be basic principles, and Tim, you just started mentioning this, so let me pick up on it. Let’s take the principle of free market economics. What you know is that scarcity affects prices. Anytime an item becomes scarce, prices go up. Remember what happened to bottled water and COVID at the start, remember what happened to toilet paper, remember what happened to hand wiper…


Basic supply and demand, right, people were buying all the sanitizer, and then selling it at ridiculous, astronomical price gouging rates. It’s basic supply and demand. If you have a greater demand and a lesser supply, then you will charge more for the lesser supply because there’s that much demand that it warrant that you raise the prices.


So if you’re President Biden, and you just killed the Keystone pipeline, which is going to move tens of millions of barrels of oil, you’ve just made oil scarcer. And if you cut out all the drilling and the federal preserves that we’ve been drilling, then you’re going to make oil scarcer. And when you do all these things that he’s doing right now, making it harder to get drilling permits, it becomes scarcer.

Anytime something becomes scarce, prices are going to rise, even if it’s on the threat of scarcity, even if you hear that there’s going to be a run on ammunition, everybody’s going to go buy it, and when they buy it, it’s all going to become scarce and becomes more expensive, even if you have an abundance of it, just a rumor of it.


And let me speak to that for a second. For everybody listening, I would encourage you don’t buy any more ammunition, just so you can leave it on the shelves longer because we’ve been trying to get it for a long time and I’m tired of you guys buying all the ammo. So for our own sake, please stop buying ammunition. Thank you very much.


So scarcity, so you just look at I don’t need a news report to tell me that the logical result of Biden taking measures to make energy more scarce is that prices will go up. And I don’t have to see whether NBC agrees with that, I don’t see I have to care. I don’t care whether the FOX agrees with that. That’s basic principles. That’s a basic law of economics.


Now, in this case, I can point to the fact that a year ago America was energy independent. We know how many barrels of oil we need every year. We know what we produce every year.

Now, if you take what America needs every year, and you compare it to what we’re now going to produce with all these closed oil fields, all this closed drilling, America is no longer energy independent. If we’re not energy independent, where do we get our oil?

It has to be shipped into us from somewhere else. Guess what? We have to pay for that shipping coming in, and we have to pay the rates that they want in that nation. So where now we don’t control the market anymore, they do, that’s going to cause prices to go up.

So in a lot of cases, it’s not even where you get the source of information. It’s understanding basic principles and biblical principles. And if you understand the principles, you can already determine a whole lot of what’s true and what’s not true, just based on those principles.


I also point out that we love theological conversations. And certainly, part of what we do here at WallBuilders and then at WallBuilders Live, we want to present things from the biblical, historical, constitutional perspective, so certainly we are happy to have biblical conversations in the midst of this. But there’s a lot of other people that are very strong on these categories that really addresses.


You can search online, there’s other podcasts where people really dive into that a lot. And we don’t mind theological questions at all, because we are people, we love to study apologetics and we love to study the Bible and see those connections.

But obviously, in the midst of what we do, we’re not simply a theological position place. But there are people that that is literally what they do. You can look at guys, like Wayne Grudem has some really good books on biblical systematic theology, on biblical perspective of politics. T

here’s some really good authors out there who do help you kind of understand things from a better biblical perspective so that you can address these from an even greater theologically sound and secure biblical position.

So we’d encourage you to start looking, you can find some other guys out there who do a really good job with this. But we are, by all means open to more questions along these lines. If you say, hey, what’s the biblical position on this?

What’s the constitutional perspective on this? That’s part of a Foundation of Freedom Thursday here is for on WallBuilders Live to help answer those questions. So by all means, send those questions in if you have more questions, but there are lots of other good resources out there as well to help answer some of those questions.



Email them into [email protected] and then be sure and sign up for our Biblical Citizenship in Modern America class, host one right there at your church or in your community, gives you a chance to dive into these questions, get that foundation and just have a chance to discuss them.

There’s something about that iron sharpening iron that happens when you sharpen each other’s countenance in those discussions. We are thrilled to see so many classes, hundreds and hundreds of classes happening right now all over the country using this biblical citizenship course.

And it answers a lot of those very questions that you’re thinking about right now as we discussed these things. Even got a class going in California right now with a full over 400 people, they’ve packed out the church into the overflow section, another one like that with over 300 people in it in Washington State. So I mean, these are not conservative areas typically where people are hungry for that truth.

So really good questions on worldview, how to apply a biblical worldview to these things that are happening in our nation right now. Go to Biblical citizens.com today, and you can sign up for that class and get those videos into the hands of your pastor and encourage your pastor to stress this at your church as well. Quick break, guys, we’ll be right back with more questions. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday here on WallBuilders Live.

Thomas Jefferson said, “The Constitution of most of our States and of the United States assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves. That is their right and duty to be at all times armed, that they are entitled to freedom of person; freedom of religion; freedom of property and freedom of press.”


Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution, but just felt like man, the classes are boring, or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago, or I don’t know where to start? People want to know, but it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the constitution either.

Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive! With David Barton and Rick Green. And it’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the cradle of liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders’ library, where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it the Quickstart Guide to the Constitution, because in just a few hours through these videos, you will learn the citizen’s guide to America’s constitution, you’ll learn what you need to do to help save our constitutional republic.

It’s fun, it’s entertaining, and it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive! With David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at wallbuilders.com.


President Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”



We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. Next question is going to come from Manheim, Pennsylvania. And it’s Alan. He said “In Article 1, Section 8, it says the federal government is to, ‘provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the services of the United States.

The first nine words make it sound like it’s us, the citizens, and then the next statement sounds like it’s referring to the military.’ Is that correct?” Wow, really good question, Alan. Thanks for diving into the Constitution, first of all, and finding this in Article 1, Section 8. Really good question. Alright, guys, where do we go with this one?


Well, the Founding Fathers did not have the concept of a professional permanent soldier, you had citizen soldiers. And so even today, even though we’re used to having career military guys, the Constitution still holds that we do not have a standing military. The military goes away every two years according to the Constitution unless Congress refunds it, re-appropriates it.


This is called the NDAA, the National Defense Authorization Act. If it gets delayed, if it does not get passed, the military goes away.

So even though we’re used to having a permanent Military back yourself up to the time of the Founding Fathers when this was written, the militia was everybody who was 18 and older. Now in some states, they specifically say that, but the militia was able bodied individuals who could grab a gun and go defend something.


And let’s also point out when you say the militia was 18 years and older, you’re specifically referring to some of those states where they said, the militia is 18 years and older, because we can give examples of Founding Fathers who were much younger than 18, who were part of the militia. But to your point, it was able bodied men who had guns and were ready to defend their town against invasions, against attacks, against any kind of enemy that might present themselves.

And so this is, again, some states, their laws actually said 18 years and older, but they probably weren’t turning away the 16 and 17 year olds on many occasions, because again, we can point historically to where some of that did happen. And dad, even as you mentioned, part of this is language from the Second Amendment which just gives context to part of the Second Amendment when it says that a well-regulated militia being necessary.

And people say, well see, we have a military, therefore, this doesn’t apply to normal citizens, the Founding Fathers wrote this for normal citizens, because as you pointed out, they intended and they wrote in the Constitution, that there is no standing army in America. It’s funded every two years, and they wanted every single American citizen to be prepared to defend their home, to defend their community, their city, their state, or their nation.


And that was part of what made it the militia. It was the able bodied individuals of the town who were able to come together and defend the town. And this language is important when you understand the context that is not talking about the military, because they didn’t have a standing army military back then they wouldn’t be referring to.


And also a key to this is, as Alan pointed out, he sensed Article 1, Section 8, but the last part of this says, for governing such part of them the militia as may be employed in the service of the United States. And this was their concept of the military is, alright, we got militias 18 and older, or whatever age it was, it might be 10 and older, it might be 8 and older, if you’re John Quincy Adams.

But whatever portion it was, when they get employed by the United States, in other words, oh, we’ve got an incident going over here. We need troops out of North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia, we’re going to employ the militias out of there to come help the federal government on this invasion on the sea coast. Well, that’s when they become federal troops.

So they were actually militias. We didn’t have federal troops per se. We would call up the militias, and if they were employed by the United States, that became the federal military. So even in the context of Article 1, Section 8, the language there makes it pretty clear that they’re being called up to be soldiers of the United States. And so that’s really how it worked. That’s how they looked at things.

And so the language really is referring to we the people, us as citizens, we are the citizen soldiers of the United States. And that’s the way it is always seen. And we still have citizen soldiers now we look at more as professional soldiers, but they’re really not. They only exist for two years at a time. And if we ever don’t pass a budget in those two years, the military will go away.



Alright, fellows, last question of the day, somebody was listening to the broadcast a few weeks back when we had Kelly Shackleford on talking about the Supreme Court, the court packing the supreme coup that President Biden is attempting. And he said “I have concerns about telephony as recommended by you guys my US senator and Congress person to let them know that I oppose this SCOTUS expansion.

I phone twice already, I only get voicemail. I expect dishonest people will act dishonestly. And since I live in California in Maxine Waters district, I have no reason to believe my opinion will be counted. Whether I give voice mail or an actual person, I just don’t trust staffers to record or register my opposition. I think staffers will disregard my call, delete it, or some other way make my voice unheard to the elected official. What are your recommendations on my concerns?”


A great point and man, bless your heart. If Maxine Waters is your representative, and you’re trying to get court packing stop, it’s an uphill battle. But here’s the deal. You’re not accountable for Maxine Waters, you’re accountable for what you do. So the first thing is just because they don’t answer doesn’t mean you should stop contacting them or stop sounding off.


And they also will have local offices. And so we gave out the switchboard for Congress, and maybe so many people called that those lines were overwhelmed. So it might not have even been an intentional ignoring, but they do have district offices as well. So you can call the district office, but you can look up online, you can find the district office, and you can call the district office and still largely accomplish much of the same purpose by letting them know hey, I’m totally against this, this doesn’t need to happen. You need to make sure you’re not voting in favor of this because this is a problem.


That’s right. So it’s up to you to continue contacting them. And even if they’re opposed to everything you say, you still need to sound off. There’s a couple of good examples on this: one, biblical, one, historical.

But in the Gospel of Luke, we learn about an unjust Judge. He’s just not a good guy at all. But there was a woman that because she kept coming at him day after day after day after day after day, just pounding on his door and demanding justice, he finally said, okay, just to get you off my back I’m going to do this.


So there is the thing that you just keep hanging in there, even if they don’t agree with you, even if they are different philosophy, you just keep hanging in there and making that happen. The second thing I’d point to is Founding Father James Iredell.

He was on the Supreme Court put there by George Washington. He said, look, a lot of people, they’re wicked, they don’t do the right thing. But sometimes just out of fear of punishment from the people, they’ll do the right thing. So you have to keep sounding off. You have to keep letting that happen.

And man, if enough of those calls come in, and you know, even as Tim said, it may have been because so many people were calling and you couldn’t get through, you keep sounding off. They need to hear your voice. They do keep count, and they do keep numbers.

And if all these Democrats across the country start getting numbers like this, even Maxine Waters is going to be swayed because she does want to be reelected. And if she’s going to lose the majority in the House, because everybody’s going to guess this nationally, it has an impact. So don’t give up just because you don’t get through. And don’t dismiss it just because you got someone like Maxine Waters. You keep hanging in there and doing the right thing, and letting your voice be heard.

Election Audits, Finding Truth, And More – On Foundations Of Freedom


Absolutely. Let your voice be heard, your values counted every chance that you get. As we mentioned today, be sure become a biblical citizenship coach, and start hosting those classes in your home or at your church. Get that going.

We see these huge classes happening across the country. So we know people are hungry for this, and you can be the catalyst to make it happen in your community. We really appreciate you listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.

Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man that bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”