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War In Ukraine – Communism And European Interests With Governor Rick Perry – As one of our greatest allies in the European union, Poland understands how communism affects everyday life. Governor Rick Perry joins us to discuss government overreach, war in Ukraine, and the status of Europe and the U.S. and more. Tune in today!
Air Date: 03/21/2022
Guest: Governor Rick Perry
Guest:On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Transcription note: As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Welcome the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live. We’re taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. And I’m here with David Barton. He is America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Tim Barton is with us, he’s a national speaker, and pastor and president of WallBuilders.
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And here at WallBuilders, we are all about bringing back that foundation, that biblical foundation that makes a constitutional republic strong. And to do that, you got to know right from wrong, you got to be able to dive into the foundations that make a nation great. You know, if you put good principles in, you’re going to get good results; you put bad principles into a culture and a society in a community, you’re going to get bad results.
And we see the bad results happening right before our eyes. We can turn it around if we come back to those good principles and you and I fight for them. But we got to know those foundations. We got to know the foundations of freedom.
We’ve got Governor Rick Perry with us. Governor, always good to have you, sir. Thanks for coming back on WallBuilders Live.
It’s my great pleasure to be with you. And I wish I were sitting there this face to face, but that’s not the way the world is at the moment.
We’ll make it happen at some point. But David and I were talking about, of course, the Ukraine situation. And then he was talking about when you guys went over to Poland, and just all of the help that you were able to give to Poland with regard to energy and trying to get them off of Russian oil or gas. Go ahead, David.
Yeah, Governor, there’s a story I want to share. We had come to Poland with a group of congressmen, congressional delegation, we took several to Poland. And they were working at that time, they wanted to get military bases Germany want our military bases gone, Poland wanted in there. And so we were talking to the deputy prime minister there and we were talking about what was going with their winners now cold it was.
And he said, yeah, he said, just last week, we had your Secretary of Energy, Governor Perry here. And he said, you know, we were telling him that we just didn’t have much energy, we had to rely on Russia for our energy, and that we really needed some. And he said, well, how much do you need? And we told him, he said, but we can provide that.
And so we were there right after apparently you had made some deals to provide energy so that they could be independent from Russia. And then he told me they got enough that they can actually help supply Ukraine so that Ukraine didn’t have to rely on Russia for energy. And so I mean, that was quite a time when America was able to help other nations with energy rather than taking it in from other nations. And that’s back when you were Secretary of Energy. And it was quite a story that we heard from the deputy prime minister of Poland.
But we had a great working relationship with the Polish people. In my personal opinion, I think we don’t have better friends than the European Union than the Polish people. The government have Pole, Prime Minister Duda, they’re really some fine people. And just a little background here. They kind of understand what happens when you have, you know, it taters run your country, they’ve been under the iron fist of not only communism, but also Nazi Germany, as you’ll recall.
So, literally in modern history, they had been underneath the influence, just the dreadful pressure of two regimes that were horrible in world history. And so they really get it and they’ve seen how the old Soviet Union and modern Russia uses that energy as a tool to get their will. So, Russia will cut off them into any country, they did it to Ukraine, people froze. They control that line across Ukraine.
So the deal we made with the Poles and gosh, we were happy to do it because this is American energy that we’re being able to sell, it helps us economically, and it helps them from the standpoint of having this energy available to be used as they see fit. We actually opened up a line between Poland and Ukraine in the latter days of our energy work, the Trump administration.
And truly, the people of Europe saw that it made a lot of sense to be energy independent. I think even the Germans, and the Germans are kind of an odd group here from the standpoint of, they kind of like playing both sides against the middle, if you will. They like being the big 800 pound gorilla in Europe and controlling where the gas went, and making the money off wheeling the gas, if you will.
But even if you gave them true serum, recognize they really need to be independent of that Russian gas, and particularly now, as we see what Putin and his thugs are doing in Ukraine as the total disregard for human rights and for people’s lives, and I think this guy is mentally defective in some form or fashion, a megalomaniac. And he’s a really dangerous person that our country needs to be using the tools we have at our disposal to not only defeat the Russian army in Ukraine, but to remove this guy as a despot in the world.
Yeah. And governor just again, and I know we say it over and over and over again, but just the contrast of where we were just a couple of years ago when you were Secretary of Energy, and we became energy independent, and just the policies, there’s such a difference in the outcome. When we keep hearing President Biden blame Russia for our oil prices and the price at the pump and could you just address that for a second, because people are going to believe the lie if they just hear it from the major media over and over again?
Yeah. Well, I don’t think the American people are going to buy into the Biden story here about this is Putin’s problem, this is Putin’s fault. They know what was going on before. Even people who voted for Biden, if they have any sense at all, put it that way, if you’re just a blind, loyal guy, and it doesn’t make any difference what Joe Biden does, and you got to live with that. But if you’re a thoughtful liberal, if you’re a thoughtful individual who had an impact on the election in 2020, if you voted for Joe Biden, you’ve got to admit that you bought into this whole theory that we got to get rid of fossil fuels, and the climate is an existential threat. I mean, how many times we hear that word.
But the fact is to move as quickly as what the Biden administration has to basically shut down oil and gas, drilling, to stop the permitting process, to stop drilling on federal lands, to quit giving offshore leases, to slow walk these LNG permits, all of that collectively send a very powerful message to the oil and gas industry, is that you’re welcome to go risk your capital out there. But it’s not going to have a return on the investment for you. And these oil and gas companies are capitalists as they should be. And they’re sitting there going, why would we go risk our capital at this particular point in time when we got an administration that is a sworn enemy?
Biden stood up in multiple areas of multiple places across the country and said, I’m going to stop drilling. I’m going to stop the oil and gas industry. They’re bad. And so why should we believe him? It’s a tragedy for not just America. I mean, when you think about what’s happened in the last year, Rick, with the pandemic, with children who have not been able to have interaction with their peers, with families that have had incredible economic impact put on them, the wearing a mask everywhere you go and the inability to even have those facial expressions known. I mean, what has happened to America under this administration is tragic.
Then you add the economic woes that are happening now. When a gallon of gasoline is approaching $4.50 a gallon, the truckers and their families that are negatively impacted, I mean the mom that’s out there literally having to make the call between you know, do I spend money on this, do I spend money on that? And everything, food, transportation, I mean, everything is going up. I’m really fearful for the next year in what’s going to happen, not just in America, but around the globe from a massive recession that could occur because of the policies.
When you spend that much money, listen, I’m an animal science major at Texas A&M, but I understand those macroeconomics of when you have government spend as much money as what this government is spending, I mean, the trillions of dollars of additional debt that got put on America, the long range estimation of what it’s going to cost Americans and cost the world is pretty staggering.
Governor, you mentioned something about the permitting process. And I remember talking to our chairman of our Energy Commission here in Texas, and she was telling me that under the Trump administration, you guys had got the permitting process down to a matter of days rather than 18 months, and that it opened up drilling in places all over the United States. Could you address that permitting process? Because I don’t think that’s gotten enough attention as part of the problem with what’s going on right now.
Absolutely. David, one of the things that President Trump, if you recall, he did a number of things on the permitting side. He said, for every regulation that you come up with, you got to get rid of two. So then he sent that message. And the message always get sends in the top. When Joe Biden says, in essence, I don’t like the fossil fuel industry, central banks listen to that, corporate boards listen to that. And all of that is having a negative impact on the fossil fuel industry.
When you complicate it even more with regulators that basically are making it more and more difficult, they slow work permits. For instance, in LNG permits, the Burke would be putting out their message is clear, hey, we don’t like fossil fuel. So just kind of put that over there in the top left drawer, and if you get it out a year and look at it and kind of study and then put it back in there. I know that may be a little simplistic view. But the fact is that’s the result.
This is an administration that now here’s the interesting thing for me. And why I say that this administration is playing the American people as chumps, they’re seeing their poll numbers go in the tank because their policies are really affecting Americans in a negative way. You see, gas prices going through the roof, inflation going up, all of these different things happening. And Joe Biden stands up in the State of the Union and talks about how we need to address these things, and then his administration does 180 degrees.
Americans are not that stupid. They recognize that they have a president who is beholden to a radical left agenda to do away with the fossil fuel industry. The captains of our country, I mean, when you think about what has made America great, the oil and gas industry, whether it was delivering us in World War II from the Nazis, going forward, the American energy industry has been one of the drivers of the great American century. And this President, because he’s so beholden to the left and they’re crazy woke, green, I’ll just leave it at craziness, I mean, it’s beyond me why they think that the American public is going to continue to buy into their story. I don’t think they will. I think this November, you’re going to see a powerful pushback from the voters in this country and say, no more, absolutely stop, full-stop.
Governor, we’ve been hearing from the President that look, I’ll do something to get the prices down because it’s taken a lot of pressure over that. And so we’ve seen him reach out to Iran and Venezuela and other places to get some fossil fuels and to get the prices down. And why don’t we just reach out to Texas or Ohio or South Dakota? It makes no sense why you’re going to go to dictators and tyrant nations, and start having them provide us some fuel when we’ve got everything we need right here in the United States? And literally, you guys prove that when we became energy independent, when you were secretary?
Then an envoy to Midland, Texas, not to Caracas, Venezuela, that would be my advice. It makes absolutely no sense. As a matter of fact, it shows you just how disconnected and/or biased this administration is. David, here’s what I think has happened. It’s always hard to say, sorry, it’s always hard to say I made a mistake. But that’s what this administration needs to do.
Joe Biden needs to stand up and say, folks, I really understand now that although I thought this is a good idea to do away with fossil fuels, I now recognize that it was devastating to the American people. And I want to say, I’m sorry and we’re going to change these policies and give the oil and gas industry our fossil fuel developers the captains of the American economy the greenlight to go deliver these energy resources to the American people. That would be a leader, who the people of America, and I will suggest to you Republicans, they would stand up and salute him and say, Mr. President, we respect you and we’re going to herald what you’re doing as real leadership for the world.
Yeah. And last question for you, Governor, I know you’re traveling and trying to make a flight. You know, just to say we win big in 2022, you still got two years of Biden and Harris administration, will the Congress be able to on energy do much? Or is it just a pressure thing where there is going to be literally like negotiation, they’re going to have to get him to give in on some of these things to try to turn it around?
Well, I think it’s probably going to be the ladder more than the former in this administration I think we’ll fight you until the last dog dies. I mean, unfortunately, I wish I could tell you, there’s some common sense that will come into this. And maybe, Kevin McCarthy and God-willing, we take over the Senate as well, that between those two bodies, they can use their political pressure, their legislative arm, if you will, to get this administration to at least send a message to the fossil fuel industry that hey, look, we need you.
And that’s not to say that the renewable side of things don’t have a role to play. We have small modular reactors that need to be deployed across the country and literally across the globe. We signed an agreement with Poland for small modular reactors just within the last couple of weeks, a company called NuScale. So there’s positive things that can happen out there. We just need an administration that will kind of send the signal of hey, we’re not going to cut your legs out from under you if you go invest in either fossil fuels or nuclear energy. Those things actually are good for the globe environmentally.
Because if you move clean burning American LNG, Liquefied Natural Gas, out of the mix, and it gets replaced by some dirty Russian fuel or worse yet Chinese coal, I mean, if you’re a hardcore environmentalist, you got to look at that and go, okay, that’s better. But this Nirvana that they talk about is we’re going to do away with fossil fuels and we’re just not going to use them at all. Here’s your alternative. Turn the lights out. And lead the lights out.
Governor, just hearing you grab that reminds us what real leadership is. We miss it. We miss it. It’s like people say we miss Reagan all the time. We miss Rick Perry as well. We got to tell you, brother, we love you and we appreciate you and thank you so much for spending some time with us this morning.
Hey, God bless you, brother. Take care of yourself. David, I look forward to get to shake your hand again one of these days and see your face…
You too, brother. We appreciate you, brother.
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We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Special thanks to Governor Rick Perry, former governor of Texas, longtime governor of Texas, but also serving as Secretary of Energy. We’re back with Tim Barton. And Tim, of course you know Governor Perry well. Just as I’m listening to him talk with your dad there, I’m sitting there just pining for the old days, I guess, but missing that that steady hand. And that just logic, I mean, it just makes sense what he’s saying about what we should have been doing and what we could still do.
Well, you know, it’s interesting that President Trump, first of all, picked him and assigned tend to be part of the Trump administration and a team there in Washington DC, certainly, I know some similarities when you talk to people who have a good understanding who are practical, and they say, well, it’s not that complicated, like Bob McEwen will tell us economics, right, like guys, this isn’t that complicated. It’s actually pretty simple. You just do this, and this is what works. And this is how it goes. And that’s exactly what it sounded like with even some of this energy policy. Like, it’s not that complicated.
Maybe instead of going to Venezuela, or Iran, or Saudi Arabia, maybe just come out to West Texas. And there’s a lot of oil out there. In politics, there’s a lot of complicating issues where there are very simple answers, there’s very practical and common sense answers. And as you’re alluding to, it was really nice when you had people there who were much more practical common sense, goal-oriented, even recognizing some of the illogical nature and fallacies of some of the environmental group that he’s just pointing out that this is not the most practical thing, and people who are honest ought to be able to look at this and recognize and go, yeah, this isn’t the way to resolve those problems.
And if you want to say, hey, we don’t want an American have oil or whatever else, but you recognize we need oil; so we’re going to pump it here, we’re going to import it. Well, who are you importing it from? Because nobody pumps it cleaner than we do in America. Again, I think it’s just so refreshing to hear that level of common sense because it certainly seems in our modern political environment, there’s not many people who speak truthfully, honestly, with a level of common sense.
And that’s the critical part right there. I mean, just some people didn’t like Trump for being so blunt. But at least he was truthful, at least it spoke directly to the American people and explain these kind of situations. And it was kind of like, remember how really first few months of his presidency here on the program, we would be going wow, did we just say moral clarity and Donald Trump, the same sentence because he had looked at these Middle East situations, he looked at all these different things and go, here’s the good guys, here’s the bad guys. We’re going to stop helping the bad guys. We’re going to start helping the good guys. And you’re going, where has that simplicity been? I mean, that’s really what we needed in this situation, as well.
And I mean, there’s no doubt, we both said this on the program, if you had a President Trump still in the White House, the projection of strength, the clear message that we’re not going to let you do certain things, and we’re going to be there to support and all those things would have prevented this, and we would have never had ourselves in a situation where we are buying oil. I mean, it’s amazing who we’re talking about buying oil from now. We would have never done that under President Trump. And so, look, folks, this is what happens when you choose or you get foisted upon you weak leadership, that really has an anti-America, instead of making America great, it’s all about undermining America so that the world somehow feels better.
Yeah, no, I appreciate it too, that Governor Perry acknowledged that maybe there’s some intellectually honest, genuine people who voted for Biden who are now looking and going, I’m not sure about this. And on some level, I do wonder if Governor Perry gave the American people too much credit, saying, hey, they all recognize what’s happening.
Well, I think a lot of people are waking up to what’s happening. I’m not sure everybody is yet waking up to what’s happening. But certainly, there’s a lot of Americans waking up to what’s happening. And hopefully, it will result in a change of power in the political spectrum here in this midterm election where there’ll be enough people show up in turnout. We’ve seen just statistically polling, a lot of kind of the people in the middle of the independent are acknowledging and recognizing this isn’t good.
When you look at places like South Texas, some of the Hispanic districts where they traditionally have been Democrat strongholds, and now they’re leaning Republican, there are a lot of people waking up to what’s going on. And that’s what it’s going to take. Unfortunately, sometimes it is in times of crisis that people are awakened to recognize, you know, that’s not the position we need to be in and that idea isn’t really working very well anymore. And so hopefully, there are those people who are waking up. And we will continue to have those people wake up because that’s exactly where our nation needs is the people who have been on the wrong side of some of these very clear common sense economic or even moral issues to now that they’ve kind of felt the fire, they’ve seen the inflation, they’ve seen the failure go, oh, we’re ready to try something different because this way didn’t work.
Yeah. There’s something about experiencing the pain of the bad policies that makes you suddenly go up, there’s got to be a better way. And we’ve always said here on WallBuilders Live where a Joshua and Caleb approach, we’re going to look at what God can do and we’re going to say, hey, God’s given us a land. Let’s go take it. We know these principles work. And we have a wonderful, I think, wonderful opportunity, a unique moment in history to convert millions and millions of people to principles of liberty and biblical worldview because they are looking for a better way.
So it’s not a time to be despondent or despair. It’s a time to shift focus a little bit and say, I’m going to give a little bit more of my time and my money and my energy to help save the nation and restore these things, but definitely not a time to despair no matter how ugly it gets out there. Folks, we really appreciate you joining us today. You can get more of our programming at our website wallbuilderslive.com. Thanks for listening to WallBuilders Live.