Evangelicals Are Turning Against President Trump: Why are evangelicals turning against Trump? Evangelicals across the country came together to essentially bash President Trump. Are they actually evangelicals? Why are they coming against Trump? Is the President losing his following? All of these questions answered, tune in now to find out!

Air Date: 05/21/2018

Guest: Dr. Robert Jeffress

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

You”€™ve found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. We take that perspective and we apply it to not just politics, but every single area of the culture. Though today we will be talking a little bit of Washington politics and presidential politics. Pastor Robert Jeffress will be with us later in the program.

Right now we’re here with America’s premier historian, David Barton. He”€™s the founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton”€™s with us, national speaker, pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator.

You can find out more about us there at WallBuildersLive.com. And then also visit our main website, WallBuilders.com. That’s where we’ve got a wealth of information for you and all kinds of great tools for you to equip and inspire your family to do their part as citizens. So, check out some of those tools that are available for you right there at WallBuilders.com.

Again, Pastor Jeffress will be with us later in the program.

David, Tim, there was some big meeting that happened, they say it was big anyway, I don’t know, it was supposed to be a lot of evangelical leaders across the country. I think most of all the folks that we know and work with that are involved in this arena were not invited to this particular meeting. But they’re saying that these evangelicals were just bashing Trump, that’s basically what the meeting was about. I thought 80% to 90% of evangelicals were supporting Trump?

David:

Yeah, Rick, you’re talking about this group of evangelicals that met to decide how to salvage evangelicalism. Because they think that evangelicalism has been co opted by Donald Trump because so many evangelicals supported Donald Trump. And they’re afraid that when people see Donald Trump they think that’s evangelicalism.

Salvaging Evangelicalism?

Tim:

Well, let me pause. So, who is the one that reported that evangelical leaders met to show their opposition to this? Because whoever”€™s the one that reported this is the one that’s defining what evangelical is.

David:

Right.

Tim:

Because I would even argue that we use words real loosely sometimes. So, what do we even mean by evangelical? We say, “€œWell, no, the majority of evangelicals support Trump.”€ Well, no, now you have Evangelical leaders against Trump. Well, it doesn’t matter what kind of labels you put out there. People support and people oppose Trump, but who’s defining the term evangelical?

Because when I saw this article I thought, wait a second, the evangelical leaders I know have not come out in opposition to Trump, although certainly in some behavioral things.  Obviously, if you are a Christian you can look at moral issues and go, “€œOkay, yeah, we have not always agreed with what Donald Trump has tweeted, with what he has done, there’s no question about that.”€ But that’s not even what we’re debating here.

David:

Yeah.

Tim:

It’s who are the evangelical leaders we’re referring to and are they really even evangelical?

David:

And I will tell you that right now that there is an identity crisis going on among evangelicals. If you look at the National Association of Evangelicals which has existed for decades, they are supposedly the representative body for evangelicalism. They say that to be an evangelical you have to believe what the Bible says. That’s the number one tenant for being an evangelical. And yet the National Association of Evangelicals is right now, they are unable to pass a resolution on how to define marriage. How can you say that an evangelical believes what the Bible says and you don’t know how to define marriage?

Personal Views Instead of the Bible

David:

So, what’s happening is you’re having all these folks that have their own personal views and they’re not what the Bible says, but they call themselves evangelicals. And so since they’re doing that, and since there are people on the other side who actually believe the Bible, and they don’t believe what these so-called evangelical leaders believe about marriage or whatever else they’re saying, “€œWell, you’re not true evangelicals because you don’t believe what I believe and I’m a true evangelical.”€ No you not. By definition you have to accept the Bible as the basis.

So, what’s happening is you’re having this big fight right now over whether we’re even going to maintain the word “€œevangelical”€. And I just kind of hold that it’s really not necessary. If you live by the Bible you do and if you don’t you don’t. So, having labels is a superficial thing that this culture seems to love. But nonetheless, these are the guys who are getting together and saying, “€œWe’re scared to death.”€ Because polling right now shows 75 percent of evangelicals support Donald Trump. And since these guys are in the 25 percent that don’t they’re afraid they’re losing evangelicalism.

I”€™ll point out that they’ve already lost it. They don’t represent what evangelicals believe. Again, I don’t think the label matters a whit. What matters is what beliefs do you hold, what values do you hold, and do you agree with what the Bible says on those values? If you conform to that then you’re just biblical. It’s real simple.

And I’ve mentioned before I don’t use the word Christian anymore in that sense. I don’t care whether you’re Christian or not I care whether you’re biblical. If you call yourself a Christian and don’t live by what the Bible says a believer should do, then I don’t care what you call yourself, you’re just not biblical.

75% of Evangelicals Support Trump

David:

So, that’s what this fight is about. And of course the media loves this because it appears that the group that has the most support for Trump is now crumbling, and is fragmenting, and it’s falling apart, and they’re loving that. And it’s not falling apart. Seventy five percent of the so-called evangelicals who use that label still support Trump.

Rick:

Well, speaking of those evangelicals that supported Trump and still support Trump, Pastor Robert Jeffress from First Baptist Church in Dallas was one of the early supporters of Trump. In fact, he was on board with Trump way before we were and really saw something there that maybe the rest of us didn’t see. And he wasn’t at this meeting either.

David:

You look at the evangelicals invited to this meeting and there are a number of groups out there that have put together what they call the most influential evangelicals.

Rick:

Well, look at Time Time magazine did the top 25 evangelical leaders. That means the ones that are having the most influence on the culture, have the most access politically, all those different things. You were one of those top 25. I think most of the people on that list of 25 were not invited to this meeting.

David:

Bingo.

Rick:

So, the people that are actually leading the evangelical movement and actually have some influence were not, for the most part, the ones about this meeting. The question is why. Why was there a certain group invited and a certain group not invited?

Advancing a Worldview

David:

Well, they’re concerned that their worldview is not being advanced. And I’m not concerned whether my worldview or their worldview is being advanced. I’m concerned where their biblical worldview is being advanced.

And when I look at President Trump I don’t agree with his beliefs in every area, but I will agree that what he’s doing to promote things like Israel, and things like marriage, and things like family, and things like work, and things like life, and those kind of values, I’ve got no trouble with him promoting that. Because the Bible says those are the values you should promote. When you look at the other groups they’re not liking what he’s promoting.

So, whether they call themselves evangelicals or not, the news calls them that. And the news is trying to create a fissure and say that the evangelical community is split.

Tim:

And let me clarify, when we say the things that he is promoting it’s really the things that his agenda has accomplished.

David:

That”€™s right.

Tim:

So, we wouldn’t even say– vocally he’s not always up there promoting these. Because generally when we think of promoting meaning someone verbally promoting. No, it’s really what his team, what his appointees, have done. When you look at his administration and what they’ve accomplished, what they’ve accomplished is promoting a lot of those values.

And this is where people are coming out against those values saying, “€œWait a second, we’re evangelicals and we don’t support this.”€ Well, I don’t know that we could blanket statement and say evangelicals are against that. But when we don’t know how to define evangelicals and we don’t even recognize the leaders of the evangelical movement, well, it’s easy to come to wrong conclusions when you use wrong words and you lie about it.

David:

Robert Jeffress is one of these guys that clearly is an evangelical leader in the real world. Those pastors on the President”€™s Advisory Team, evangelicals, so many recognizable ones, they did not get invited either. And so it really is kind of a closed meeting. It’s not that it represented evangelicals well because the guys that didn’t get invited are notable evangelical leaders.

But Pastor Robert Jeffress, one of those guys didn’t get invited, clearly an evangelical leader. We have him on to talk about what’s happening.

Rick:

Stay with us, folks. Pastor Robert Jeffress our guest when we come back on WallBuilders Live.

Leadership Training Program

Rick:

Hey, friends! We’ve got a great program to share with you today. It”€™s the WallBuilders Leadership Training Program and it’s an opportunity for 18 to 25 year olds to come spend two weeks diving into the original documents we’re always talking about here on WallBuilders Live.

Tim, you’ve already been doing this a couple of summers and seen the results of young people coming to this program. We’re going to see more of them coming this year.

Tim:

Yeah, Rick, it”€™s something that”€™s been cool to see the transformation with young people coming in. The emphasis, for us, largely is a pursuit of truth. We have a culture that doesn’t know what truth is. We don’t know what biblical truth is, or constitutional truth, or the American heritage that we have. And so we really dive into original documents and say, “€œWell, what did they actually write? What did they actually do? Not just what did somebody say, what is actually true, and the truth is what’s transformational.

David:

Yeah, guys. This really is a remarkable opportunity. And for those who want to spend time with us and spend time in the original documents, this is a great program. So, if you’re from 18 to 25, or you know someone who’s 18 to 25, send them to sign up for one of our three sessions this summer at WallBuilders.com/leadershiptraining.

American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment in American history. In 1963 the United States Supreme Court decided that voluntary Bible reading could no longer be part of the school day.

Founding Father Benjamin Rush, known as the father of public schools under the Constitution, pointedly warned that the Bible should be read in schools in preference to all other books.

He specifically warned that if America ever ceased promoting Biblical principles in schools then we would waste so much time and money and punishing crimes. It takes so little pains to prevent them.

He was right, we now have seven million Americans in prison on probation or on parole. The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Sadly, this was unnecessary, but is the result of no longer teaching the morals of the Bible in schools.

For more information about the Founding Fathers views on the positive impact of the Bible in schools go to WallBuilders.com.

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Our good friend Dr. Robert Jeffress is back with us from First Baptist Church here in Dallas, Texas. Pastor, always good to have you, sir.

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

Thanks for having me, Rick.

Rick:

Hey, there’s been an apparent push from some “€œevangelicals”€ that got together to do a little Trump bashing. The media has tried to make it look like it’s all of us evangelicals. I wasn’t there, I know Barton wasn’t there, you weren’t there, was anybody there that’s actually been for Trump even from the beginning?

Talk About Instead of Talk With?

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

I think they were few and far between there, which is interesting. I think they wanted to mainly talk about us instead of talking with us.

Rick:

That’s probably the right way to describe it. The media has made it sound like it was a lot a– I haven’t seen any of the leaders like Richard Land and others–

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

No.

Rick:

–being listed there.

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

Nobody from the council was invited to come.

Rick:

Now, for our listeners explain the counsel and the role that you guys play in advising the president.

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

Well, it’s very informal. There is no official council. There was during the campaign and that has just morphed into an unofficial group of evangelical leaders. Franklin Graham, myself, Jerry Falwell, others involved in that. And as I said, it’s been very informal. But it’s interesting that we weren’t invited to come. I had plenty to do. I didn’t need to come.

But what’s going on here, Rick. I do think you have some sincere people involved in this who are frustrated that the term evangelical has been used just in terms of politics by the secular committee. When they think evangelical they think politics and specifically they think Donald Trump. But part of this is just the age we’re living in, Rick. The Donald Trump candidacy and now presidency has sucked all the oxygen out of the room. The news media views everything through the filter of the Trump presidency – including religion. We’re not responsible for that.

But I like to think of evangelicals as being known not only for propagating the Gospel, that’s our main focus, but for being pro life and pro religious liberty. What’s wrong with being known for those “€œpolitical”€ stances?

Rick:

No doubt.

The Hypocritical Thing

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

What is hypocritical, Rick, is this group, what they want to be known as is they want to be known as being for open borders and taking this political position. It’s not that this group really is against politics. It’s that they”€™re against politics with which they disagree.

Rick:

Yeah, exactly right. Okay, I”€™ve got to ask you because on all those issues you mentioned – religious liberty, and life, and all these different things, I could never have dreamed there would be as much progress in the last 14-15 months. The folks that would get appointed, the judicial – not only nominees, but the ones that have been approved and are now on the bench. It”€™s just been victory, after victory, after victory. Do you feel the same way? Do you feel like that the progress has been there and that the victories–

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

Oh, I have said it often, I said it on Fox last week, I said it in the Oval Office to the president week before last. Donald Trump is the most faith friendly president in history and that includes Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. Look at what he’s done in the sweeping executive order on religious liberty, on his pro Israel stance, naming Jerusalem or recognizing Jerusalem as the capital, moving the embassy. What he’s done on the life issue, these conservative judges and justices, nobody has done what he has done.

And that’s why I can’t get over all of this whining by these so-called evangelical leaders. What I think it really is, Rick, is this election showed how really little influence they have over evangelicalism. They were solidly opposed to Donald Trump and Trump ended up winning that evangelical vote by the largest margin in history. And he sustains that level of support seventy eight percent. I think they cannot get over the fact that they have such little influence over evangelicals.

How Did You Know?

Rick:

Well, Pastor, I”€™ve got to tell you because we’re supposed to do this according to Matthew. When we’re upset with a brother we’re supposed to go to him – here’s what I’m upset with you about. When I came and spoke at your church years ago you didn’t show me the crystal ball that you obviously have hidden somewhere at the church there because I tell you, you were out front on this before anybody else that I know. And honestly, I wasn’t happy with you at first. I was like, wait a minute, why is he supporting Trump?

We’re over here we go with Cruz, and Rubio, and all these guys that are faith based guys and for the longest time a lot of us mutual friends of yours would say, “€œMan, he must know so that we don’t know.”€ And then finally by probably July even Barton was saying right here on the program he was saying, “€œLook, God’s doing something here that we didn’t see. It’s clear that God’s using this man.”€ And now of course, now we definitely see it. But you saw it early on.

How did that happen? How did you know from the beginning? Because I know you don’t agree with everything he”€™s ever said or done and you’ve made that clear. This isn”€™t about that.

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

Hey, Rick, I don’t agree with everything I’ve said or done.

Rick:

That”€™s exactly the right way to say that. How did you know? What– did God just speak to you? How did you–

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

No, I”€™m not going to say God spoke to me. Look, it was a combination of getting to know President Trump, then candidate Trump. I met him just really a few weeks after he announced in June. He reached out to me, I got to know him. But I was very– it just became very evident to me besides the positions he was the only one who was electable. All the men you mentioned are great men–

Rick:

Yeah.

A Matter of Electability?

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

–and I consider them friends of mine. But our country has moved so far to the left, Rick I didn’t think anybody like Ted Cruz was electable. And I felt like that Donald Trump had the leadership ability, he had the convictions, and he had the electability that was worth supporting.

Rick:

Well, you, and Falwell Jr., and the others that got on board early, were absolutely right. And we’re now reaping the benefit of that – “€œwe”€ meaning the entire country. Because the victories we”€™re having now, and maybe you feel this way too, it almost feels like a reprieve and a pivot couple of years here. Where the nation has really stopped a lot of the social– the marching towards socialism, and just removing religion completely from our country to where–

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

Yes.

Rick:

–we’re different, we’re having victories. Like I said at the beginning, I just pinch myself every day – I can’t believe we just had that victory too. So, it seems like a real change.

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

Well, we need to pray for him. He’s facing all kinds of opposition and he really does value the prayers of Christians, he said it to me again recently, and he’s facing all kinds of opposition. And look, we’re not expecting, as our friend Cal Thomas said, the kingdom of God to come riding in on Air Force One.

Rick:

That”€™s right.

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

But we do expect government to push back against evil, to give the church longer to share the gospel. And I think, like you said, this is a reprieve. Let’s be doing during this time what evangelicals are known for doing and that”€™s sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Most Important Part of These Victories

Rick:

And that’s the most important part of these victories–

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

Yes.

Rick:

–is the freedom to do that. The religious liberty, and government, and protecting our rights and freedoms instead of infringing on them. And that’s the most important part of these victories that are taking place. Like you said, let’s go live that freedom and share the gospel.

Pastor, God bless you for your leadership. Thanks for your time today. I know you’ve got a ton of these interviews every week, so we appreciate the time to have with you today.

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

I appreciate what you and David are doing. God bless you both.

Rick:

Thanks. We look forward to having you back again soon.

Dr. Robert Jeffress:

Thanks so much.

Rick:

Stay with us folks. We”€™ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Pastors Only Briefing Trip

Tim:

Hi, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders and I want to encourage all the pastors out there with a unique opportunity that we’re presenting it WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation. Not just seeing the sights but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent.

We get to go to the Capitol at night.  And we get to see the spiritual heritage of our Founding Fathers, of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties  and freedom, and what’s going on in Washington, D.C.

If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website at www.WallBuilders.com. And there’s a link that’s for scheduling.  If you click on that link there’s a section for pastor”€™s briefing. There’s more information about the dates, when it’s going, and how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of.

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us on WallBuilders Live. Special thanks to pastor Robert Jeffress for joining us today on WallBuilders Live. Appreciate his time and input as well.

Back with David and Tim Barton now. Guys, I really did think he must have had a crystal ball that he didn’t show me there at the– you guys have both been at the church you didn’t find it either, huh?

David:

No.

A Great Question

Tim:

That was a great question though because I– we talked about it even personally where we’re going, okay, it seems real early for him to come out and support Trump and especially with Trump’s positions and his values. But just like everybody that we–

David:

And I’ve got to say, too, when we say Trump”€™s positions and values, those were all in former life. I’ve seen nothing in this administration to indicate a lack of good morals. Quite frankly.

Tim:

And that’s a great point. It’s what Pastor Jeffress said, when you sat down and talked with him you realized he was a different person then the perception was.

Certainly, just like we talk about even with some founding fathers, right. You look at Benjamin Franklin who early life Donald Trump is almost a similar personification on some levels of Franklin. Where Franklin’s early life, he wasn’t really this devoutly religious guy and didn’t have these religious morals and biblical values. But then as he went on his life, now for Franklin and you can point to his interaction with George Whitefield, you can see some very specific moments, that after those encounters you see a different direction in his life, a different value system expressed in his life.

And maybe I don’t see that same connection specifically with Donald Trump. Although, when you look now and as pastor Jeffress said, when he interacted with them and it seems like he’s a different person. And then you see Trump surrounding himself with these religious people. When you see that he has his pastor Advisory Council around him that”€™s speaking to him. You saw him pick Pence as his vice president.

There came a time when we looked and went, okay, it looks like Trump might be a different guy than we thought he was, a different perception than we thought he had. It seems like Trump is different.

But back up, Rick, as you’re asking Jeffress, “€œHow did you see this coming?”€ I thought Jeffress”€™s assessment was even so telling where there was so much wisdom in him supporting Trump where he said, “€œI just thought our nation was too secular to be able to support a Ted Cruz or a Marco Rubio. I didn’t think our nation would be able to support them, but they could support a someone like Donald Trump.”€

On Outward Appearances

Tim:

Who’s certainly on outward appearances way more secular, but not only that we could support a Donald Trump. When you see now the positions he is taking and that he’s not this major secular guy we thought he was going to be, it certainly makes Pastor Jeffress look much more like the prophet that we wasn’t sure he was going to be at the beginning.

But really it’s so interesting to hear him unfold some of these thoughts and certainly it’s been so awesome to see the influence that he and other people, the Franklin Grahams, have been able to speak in President Trump”€™s life and be able to really encourage him even in faith aspects.

David:

And I would say that within that framework what we do have a record of is in the last five to six years he has had much more definite one on one personal contact with some pretty strong evangelical leaders. And whether that’s a Whitefield moment or not, I would say that when you look over the last five six years that we’re not I don’t know of any moral behavioral problems we can point to like were out there in the campaign and been in the news recently. Those go back a few years.

And so whether the Trump that Pastor Jeffress knows is the one that’s been in the last few years which clearly that’s who he knows. At that point, it’s kind of like King David – I can’t judge King David solely on the basis of Bathsheba because there’s a point in time at which he moved past that and hopefully that’s where President Trump is.

But even going back to what Pastor Jeffress said is this meeting of the evangelical or so-called evangelical leaders that are really concerned about Trump. I thought it was a great point he made that these aren’t guys that are against politics. It says that they’re against politics with which they disagree. And so all of these evangelical leaders, they’re not saying, “€œOh, evangelicals shouldn’t be involved in politics.”€ They’re saying, “€œEvangelicals shouldn’t be involved with Trump because we disagree with his specific policies.”€ And that’s a real clear– I think a real clear distinction point.

How Far Out of Touch

Rick:

I think that also explains something that I said right after the election. This election showed how far so-called evangelical leaders were out of touch with evangelical followers. Because you had a really big support of evangelical followers for Trump. Again, it’s now up to 75 percent. And these guys who claim to be the leaders, or who are at least anointed by the media as the leaders, clearly don’t represent the 75 percent that are in a different direction from where they are.

The other thing I thought Pastor Jeffress said that was really good was the victories by Trump do push back against evil and do give us a better atmosphere in which to work. Whether it’s setting aside the Johnson Amendment through the Justice Department, whether it’s what’s happened with judges on the courts, federal courts, whether it’s the pro-life activities, whatever it is, we have a different climate now. And those are– they”€™re clear victories that the policies that Trump is pushing have helped achieved in America.

Rick:

Guys, we”€™re almost out of time. I want to share a quick e-mail. We get a lot of great feedback from our listeners across the country and around the world.

This one’s from Michael and he said, “€œGreetings David, Tim, and Rick. I just wanted to send a quick note and say thank you for all you do every day by getting God’s word out there. I listened to the segment today and just wanted to say I sent a letter along with a donation check. It’s something that God placed on my heart to share with everyone I meet and know. I share your program and good news almost every day with friends. I use screenshots of your program, I write a small message about the header I’m sending to my friends and I just want to say thank you. May God continue to use you in the capacity in which He has given you power to do. God bless.”€

Michael, thank you so much and thanks for taking the initiative to share the program. Thanks for coming alongside us financially to share as well. Even today’s program, guys, having Pastor Jeffress on. It”€™s a big part of what we do is help pastors and equip them. We have tons of pastors that listen across the country and they actually take this program and they use some of the things that we talk about in their Sunday morning message.

Evangelicals Are Turning Against President Trump?

In other words, we give that biblical application on a particular issue in the day and it helps equip that pastor with some of that information and content to be able to equip their congregation as well. And so, folks, you can do exactly what Michael’s done. You can share the program with people that you know, you can join us, you can be a part of helping us spread this vision across the country, taking the messages that we have here on the program everyday and making them more available to Americans that can also be a part of this preserving liberty for the next generation.

We hope you’ll do that by going to WallBuilders.com. You can make a one time donation or you can do monthly donations. We don’t ask very often on the program, but we need your help to make this grow. It’s a listener supported program and so without you we’re limited in how many people that we can reach. But with you it expands this message. So, be a part of it – either as Michael’s doing through a donation or his own sharing of the message or whatever God puts on your heart. Check it out there at WallBuilders.com and thank you for listening today to WallBuilders Live.