How To Fact Check The Fact Checkers – With Pastor John Graves – What is truth today, and where can you find it? How can you fact check the fact checkers? Why is it important? Join us today to hear Pastor John Graves share his advice and expertise on this issue and more.

Air Date: 12/06/2021

Guest: Pastor John Graves

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.



You found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. Yes, there is an intersection, in fact, it’s constant, your faith influences everything that you do. Certainly, if you’re a Bible-believing Christian, then you know that your faith impacts everything. There’s no area of your life that is off-limits. And that includes the culture around us. It includes entertainment and what’s going on around us. It includes the education system, our political system. It includes our business, all of those things.

There’s not a single area that is not impacted by our faith, or at least should be impacted by our faith. And if there’s a lack of faith impacting being salt and light in that particular area, you can bet that it’s going to crumble, and it’s going to become deviant. So it’s important on our part, as Christians to make sure that we know every area of the culture should be influenced by our faith and then we look for ways to take our faith and be salt and light in those areas. So that’s why we always say the intersection of faith and the culture. We’ve been saying that around here WallBuilders Live since the beginning. I was trying to remember, I think it was 06. So what is that? 15 years we’ve been doing this program, and what a blessing to have reached so many people with thousands of programs.

So much education, when you go back and you look at the archives of the program, you look at the topics that have been covered it’s just been a real honor to be a part of that, to be here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian. He’s our founder here at WallBuilders. No question. He is the most read person on the Founding Fathers. In other words, he has read more of the original documents, the actual writings of the Founders than anybody alive today, with the amazing library that the Barton family has, and all of those incredible original documents. What a privilege to just be on this program with these guys every day.

Not only David, but Tim Barton and national speaker and pastor, he’s president of WallBuilders. He’s out there on the frontlines. And you ought to be sharing his social media videos every chance that you get. I’m Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. And again, just an honor to be with these guys and be rebuilding the walls, rebuilding, restoring the foundations in America.

Alright, guys, John Graves will be joining us a little later. We’re going to talk about the border. We’re going to talk about how do you fact check the fact checkers who are often not very concerned about the facts, but also how people can get involved, what they can do from home. I don’t know about you all, but I get that asked that all the time. What can I do? I’m not a congressman. I’m not a legislator. I don’t have a radio program like you guys. I want to do something. They’re looking for action steps.

So the good news is, we got good friends out there, like John Graves and others with million voices and all kinds of organizations, whether it’s our Constitution Coach program here or other things out there, there’s plenty to do. We just got to get people to be willing to step forward and take that action.


Yeah, you know and John is an amazing guy, as a pastor and as a leader. He is also one of the best big tech gurus I have ever been around in my life. I’ve never seen a guy be able to do what he can do with big tech. I’ve never seen a guy who can get into big tech and take it apart like he does, and analyze it and tell us exactly what the left is doing, or what the big tech guys, the big tech platforms are doing.

I mean, he’s such a cool guy, but I would never look at him and think of him like I often. If I were to think of a guy like that, I often think of computer nerds locked in a closet somewhere with computers and working stuff out. And he’s just not that way. He is one of the most practical guys ever been around, again, a pastor, really good. But John has been on the front edge of a lot of stuff.

I mean, even in the last election cycle on the presidential side, what he did with being able to use cell phones in helping people know exactly the positions of candidates on an issue. And because of the data that’s out there and available now, just off your cell phone, because of what’s available publicly, he can profile just about anyone say here’s what they do for hobbies, here’s what they do for enjoy. And see, this what the big tech guys do for their own ends. And John’s aware of what they do, and he’s able to help thwart some of that.

So I know we’re going to get to John on something different. But just so everybody knows, John has got more experience in understanding what he’s talking about here and in fact, checking the fact-checkers and knowing how they do it and how they get their answers, this is going to be an interesting interview with John because he just really is a skilled person unlike any other skillset I’ve really seen in my lifetime.


John Graves will be with us when we come back from the break. Stay with us, folks, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. The year after the American war for independence ended, we begin addressing the issue of Muslim terrorists in North Africa, who were attacking American ships and killing and enslaving American seamen. Congress dispatched John Adams and Thomas Jefferson to negotiate peace. And when they asked the Muslim ambassador the reason for the unprovoked attacks, he told them that it was written in their Quran, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them whenever they can be found.

16 years of negotiations failed. And in 1801, America sent its military to crush the terrorists. When that war ended in 1805, the first American edition of the Quran was published urging Americans to read the Quran to see for themselves that this teachings were incompatible with the safety and peace of non-Muslims.

To see the first American Qur’an, and to get more information about America’s first war on Islamic terror, go to


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. John Graves is with us from Million Voices. John’s involved in all kinds of areas in the culture, influencing the culture with salt and light and a biblical worldview and moving Christians to action. John, thanks so much for some time today, bro.


I’m glad to be with you.


Man, I know a lot of what you’ve done for years, man, for such a time as this God was preparing you for this moment in time where kind of like with WallBuilders, man, we just feel like we’re on the frontlines of the culture war and there’s such a need and a hunger for this. But people right now are honestly having trouble finding good resources. Where do I go for truth? You know, we both have a great time on victory news and some outlets like that. But for most people, man, they’re wondering where to go for truth and how in the world do you find out if it is truth? You know, how do you fact check the folks that are saying they’re giving us good stuff? So what would you recommend to people on how to find that truth?


You know, go to, we actually wrote an extensive articles, just, go to the website, and it’s called “Fact checking the fact checkers” and we have a whole article explaining it. And we have a free resource, you can just click on it, print it, send it to your friends, but it’s a one page printout of everything from snoops to political fact to And we basically expose that all of these people professing to be fact-checkers are all having a leftist agenda and propaganda. But people don’t know how to show it or prove it. So we dug deep into the files and just put it in a summary kind of what I call a cheat sheet, just a simplified version of this, that you can share with your friends, you can look at it, read it yourself, and it’s pretty extensive.

Rick:,, they can get that article, get that truth. They can also get plugged in there. I mean, great place to get on our email list, find out what’s going on in their particular state. You got a lot of cool tools there.


Yes. And we do, you and I have done this a lot on victory news and flashpoint and other things. What we do is we are constantly giving them meaningful updates with articles, podcasts, and news commentary, kind of exposing some of the stuff that’s out there, but also given them a resource so they can sign up for that we’ll send them an email out of the cutting edge issues. And when the elections get around, we send out free voter guides that are church-approved, non-partisan, and people really appreciate that.

Rick: One of the things you got on already talking about and have been talking about for quite a while is the border. Of course, you and I both in Texas, but it affects everybody in the country what’s happening right now with this border chaos.


It does.


Yeah. People are wanting to do something, they want to be a part of the solution and again find truth on this particular issue, what do you tell them folks?


You know, we actually spent 12 months building a tool there’s over 9400 state reps. The people at the federal level, they’re not going to change much. You’ve seen that, Rick. If you’re in the Democrat party, or Republican Party, rarely do they break ranks, okay. But at the state level, if enough people call, I don’t care if you’re in the Midwest, or the South Missouri, Texas, Florida, a lot of people up north because they’re taking all these illegal immigrants that are bringing in sex trafficked victims, illegals are bringing in drugs and the cartel, they’re shipping them all over the United States. They’re on scale to be over 2 million people.

So what we built on is a tool that shows you just sign up for it and we tell you who your state rep is and who your state senator is. And if people want to really take action, they make a small donation and we actually send a postcard from you as a citizen to your state rep, to your state senator. Not from us, it’s not signing a petition, it’s not our logo. It’s getting you to be the voice, the salt, and life that makes a difference. So our heart at Million Voices is to be a megaphone for the body of Christ and let them know the most strategic person to talk to is that state rep.


I couldn’t agree with you more, John. I mean, just like you said, they’re deaf in Washington, DC. You know, we tell everybody call your congressman, call your congressman. But right now it’s at the state level, man, that’s where it’s at. That’s where the responsibility is. I mean, the feds have blown it. They’re not doing their Article 1, Section 8, or Article 4, Section 4 responsibility on repelling this invasion. And now it’s Article 1, Section 10 time, and the states have to step up and do it.

It’s I love the fact that you strategically targeted the state legislators and not just in one particular state, but what you’re saying is anybody listening right now from anywhere in the country can go to your website in and they can actually have a postcard specifically about the border issue sent to their state rep. So they could be in Illinois, they could be in Washington State, I mean, wherever, these illegals are being flown into states all over the country, it’s impacting you, and you can be a part of the solution at


That’s right. And what we love about it is if the postcard is from you as a voter in their district, that’s who they listen to, you know this, you were a state rep. And so when a state rep hears from a voter in their district that might own a small business, that might be a pastor, that might be an influencer in the school and have kids and they talk, well, that’s somebody who’s living in their district that’s voting, they’re going to respond to that versus a group nationwide sending a petition or something like that. It brings it down to the most practical way you can make a difference as a believer to be a light in all this darkness.

And the borders what we’re hitting now but we’re going to hit crime and CRT in life and second amendment and all the major moral issues of the day, and so if they sign up there, they’re already in the portal, the next postcard that we get will be our goal is to do one topic per month eventually.


I love this, John. I didn’t know you were doing this. This is a three, four, not just a two four, this is a three, four. Because for the individual citizen, it gives you an action step, you get to be a part of the solution. Secondly, it influences that state legislator: your voice is being heard at the local level. And then third, it’s helping Million Voices reach even more people out there, I mean is a nominal donation, folks. Go to the website,, they’re going to send two postcards from you on this subject or another subject, as John adds them, and you’re going to be helping John to reach even more people. This is brilliant, man. When did you launch this?


You know, we just launched it recently. God birthed the idea in us, actually from talking to state reps like you that said, listen, if five or six pastors or five or six business owners or enough people in my district push me on an issue, I’m likely to really pay attention or change my position unless, it’s my core value, or it kind of mobilizes me to get involved because there are people in my district, they’re the ones that vote for me or gift to me or tell other people about me. And so it took a long, long time, because we’re trying to get it in all 50 states, and it is. And then there’s a redistricting thing going on. So that’s been a very tricky thing.

But our heart is not just signing another petition and be one group, but we’re not trying to just build our email list. What we’re trying to do is make people be the change agents and we are just trying to put the cookies on the lowest shelf to make it practical. We send the postcard. We stamp the postcard. And yet the action point is Mr. State or Mrs. State Rep, call me back, tell me what you’re going to do about this issue. And then we’re putting them in touch and realizing you can pray for that person and you can influence them. And if they’re one of the good guys on the right moral issues, you’re breathing wind in their sails. And if they’re not, you’re getting aware of how they respond back to you, or do they respond to you.

So I think it’s really catching on well, Rick. And so I’m hoping that people get involved, share it. And then when the election comes, if you already signed up, you’re going to be getting the voter guides as well.

Rick: is the place to go. Let me make sure I heard that right, “Putting the cookie on the lowest shelf”. Now. most important question, are those chocolate chip? Are they gooey? Are they fudge? What kind of cookies the issue?


Well, the issue changes, like this first postcard is going to be a border, the next one’s probably going to be crime, then CRT, then Second Amendment or life or we’re just trying to get to the place where we can do one a month. And our whole heart behind Million Voices is people, the number one reason they don’t get involved to vote or register or contact their state rep is because they think it doesn’t matter. And if we can show them that if enough of you get hey, these state reps, sometimes they’re decided about a few 100 votes.

But the United States Congress, one of those 435 seats were in Iowa Second District was decided by 6 votes out of 400,000, 6 votes. And so, your own family, you alone could change a congress seat. How much more power would you have against your state reps if you just begin to speak, but people don’t know. It’s complicated. They don’t know who they are. And they don’t realize that they’ll respond.

And if you send this to other people and say, hey, I’m a business owner, I’m a pastor, I’m an influencer, I’ll get five of the people who live right around me. That’s where the change begins to happen. This is where the laws can change. And you’re seeing this, you do it with constitutional coach. You’re seeing people starting to wake up and the school board has become a huge issue and the city councils have become a huge issue, and the local issues is where change can happen because the states are starting to fight back against the Marxist, you know, leftist American Marxist movement that’s happening to destroy our country.


Yeah. I’ll tell you, John. two quick thoughts on that. So one, some people may be thinking, well, does this make a difference? If I send this postcard to my state legislator, don’t they get millions of letters and all that? And just like you said, and I’ve been there as a rep, I’m telling you, if a legislator gets 15, 20 of these, they’re going to be like what world’s going on? What is this issue? And who are these people? And I need to pay attention, and I need to figure out what’s happening here. So that’s number one. It does make a difference, especially if you get your whole church to do it.

But secondly, it’s so easy. I mean, this is like a two-minute process here where you go to this page, you punch in your information, actually, you can put your signature on there. So it’s not just a printed thing, your signature will show up on that postcard. Super easy to do, and yes, it does make a difference.

John, I’m excited, man. I think that’s a tool, man. We need to get this out all over the place. I’ll be encouraging our constitution coaches to do the same thing. Thanks for what you’re doing at Million Voices. And I know, if they sign up, like you said, it won’t be just as one thing, you’ll let them know when new projects are coming up. I know, you’ve got voter guide you always put out and they’ll be able to help get that out to their church as well.


That’s right. Yeah. And we want them to give to their neighbors, to their church. If they’re a small business owner, just five small business owners will get the attention of a state senator or state representative. You can look in on the website,, you can look at our top 10 guiding truths they’re all biblical issues and they’re the kind of the top 10 battles that our culture faces. And we do partner with you, with WallBuilders, with all these other groups to try to get the word out. And so, my heart is for the people of God to wake up. If there’s a spiritual awakening, it will disrupt both political parties and it’s the only hope of this country.


Amen. Amen. John Graves, God bless you, brother. Thanks for taking some time and being with us today.


Always an honor.


We’ll be right back, folks, with David and Tim Barton. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


Hi, this is David Barton. I want to let you know about a brand new book we have out called “This Precarious Moment: Six Urgent Steps that Will Save You, Your Family, and Our Country”. Jim Garlow and I have co-authored this book. And we take six issues that are hot in the culture right now, issues that we’re dealing with, issues such as immigration, and race relations, and our relationship with Israel and the rising generation millennials and the absence of the church and the culture wars, and where American heritage is our godly heritage.

We look at all six of those issues right now that are under attack and we give you both biblical and historical perspective on those issues that provide solutions on what each of us can do right now to make a difference. These are all problems that are solvable if we’ll get involved. So you can grab the book, “This Precarious Moment” and find out what you can do to make a difference. “This Precarious Moment” is available at


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to John Graves for joining us today as well. We’re back with David and Tim Barton. And guys, action steps is what it’s all about, giving people things they can actually do that will make a difference. I love this idea he’s got on his website, “Now it makes it easy for you to send that note to your state legislator”, most people don’t even know who their state legislator is. So this makes it super easy to connect and get a message that is timely on timely subjects that are happening right now in the culture. So I’m loving that. I think that’d be a good tool for us to use.


Yeah, I am super impressed by this. I’m a little bit torn because I feel like it’s almost a cop-out thank someone else to do the work for me. But at the same time when you have people who aren’t sure what to do and how to do it and where to go, and I want to make a difference, but how do I make a difference? And there was organizations like hey, cover the cost of the stamp, cover the cost of the postcard because that’s what we want to do. We want to be the ones helping you make a difference.

And so they don’t see themselves as the catalyst doing all the work. They see this as we want to be a tool in your toolbox. We want to be part of your arsenal. We want to help you be able to reach the people you want to reach. I think it’s an incredible tool what they’re doing. And certainly, I mean guys, in the midst of what we do, we have a lot of opportunity to meet a lot of people, talk with a lot of people, to work with a lot of state legislators on legislation, etc, but even as he was saying that, I thought well, I’m getting online and signing up. I want them to send postcards in my name too, I don’t want to be left out of this.

So even though we are already doing a lot of stuff, genuinely, I’m going to get on to sign up for this. Because anything we can do and everything we can do to make a difference, we got to be rolling up our sleeves to get involved to make a difference. And we’ve talked, guys, many times about when people are looking for action steps they can take, how can I get involved and we’ve talked about school boards and City Council’s and even just showing up at those meetings, those things are still desperately important.

But sometimes those things in and of themselves will not be enough to really turn the tide or change the direction the ship is going. And so that’s where when we can start adding all these things, implementing them together, it really can make a big difference. So, I’m so excited for what they’re doing. And I’m getting ready to sign up for this. I want to be a part. And I’m looking forward to when someone calls me, one of these state reps or state senators, and they say, hey, Tim, we got your postcard and I’ll be like, what postcard? Oh, that’s right. I sent you a postcard. That’s right. I’m glad you called me.


You know, one of the things I think John has done so well here is he’s really put his finger on what works and he is ignored what doesn’t. There’s a lot of belief in the Christian world, and conservative world that there’s certain things we should do. And I’m going to just go out on a limb and shoot down one of them.

What John has said here about contacting your local representatives is right. A lot of times you’ll see groups say hey, we’ve got a petition to the President, we have petition to Congress, we have petition to what whoever, and they will get massive numbers. I’ve stood at the US Capitol in the middle of press conference with House leadership, we had the Speaker of the House, we have the House Majority Leader, we had the house whip, we had the House Conference Chair all there, and we backed up a truck and we had boxes and boxes with 3 million signed. It was a petition that we want something done.

And so they pull that truck up there behind what we call the Grassy Triangle had the press conference. That truck was a great visual in the background, just boxes and boxes stacked up with people having signed this petition. And as soon as the press conference is over, they rolled end of the truck, they drove the truck off. And that’s all anybody saw of it. Petitions are one of the things that work the least at the federal level. Petitions are really good for building the mailing list of the group who’s collecting the petitions, they’re not any good for getting your legislators to pay attention to petitions.

And at the same time if I could get 5 million postcards sent to Nancy Pelosi, you know what difference it would make in any policy she has? Zero. She’s going to get reelected in San Francisco. Now, if she got a million postcards out of San Francisco, she might listen. But to get postcards from Texas, you think that bothers Nancy Pelosi to get postcards from Oklahoma or New York? IT doesn’t bother her.

But when you do a state rep literally, these guys have told me that if they get 10 or 15 contacts, they are scared to death for their job because people are really open to whatever’s going on. And so John really has hit the right level here, to be able to connect us in such a way that we can go to our state reps, our state senators, our local guys, this is where it does make a difference. This is where they do pay attention. This is where they will respond. And you will get a call back many times from these guys. I mean, this is really brilliant on John’s part to do it this way.


Well, Million Voices is the organization doing that. It’s not the only thing you can do. I mean, obviously, this one’s quick and easy. I mean, I literally think it’s about a two-minute process to send this postcard and make that contact with your State Rep. But we encourage you to do more. Start hosting a Constitution class. Start getting people together. There is something about that fellowship, especially over the last year and a half is we’ve missed out on so much fellowship, getting together with people to talk about these things and getting engaged, and realize you’re not alone is extremely important. And we give all of that away to you for free.

You can become a Constitution coach and host our biblical citizenship course easily at And David, and Tim, we hit 10,000, we got 10,000 Constitution coaches out there. So there’s a lot of these different movements that have really grown, as people have said, I’m going to get involved, I want to be a part of the solution.


There are. And it is really impressive, so many people are getting involved in the process and 10,000 coaches means that we’re talking about people that are hosting classes. And just everybody listening kind of understands the context, we are living in a world and culture where people are desperate and hungry for truth. And even as John talked about, people want to make a difference. Everybody listening, we want to make a difference. We want to do something valuable, significant, important.

And often we’re going okay, well, how can we make a difference? And sometimes we want to be able to help our friends go to the right direction. But how do we get them the right information? And the thing I love about some of these classes, like the biblical citizenship class, is this is something that really you can invite people over and you don’t have to know hardly anything about anything, you can just pull up online and you can show these discussions. And there’s a recorded portion where one of us says part of the presentation that was actually specifically done for biblical citizenship and incredible leaders there.

But then there’s a live host session and there’s live Q&A will be on and we’re taking questions and different people involved. And it’s something that as so many people are looking for answers, as they’re looking for truth, this is a great way for you to be able to help engage your friends to get them to come along and learn truth with you. Or maybe if you’ve gone through the course and you have a really good idea of truth, it equips you to be able to have better conversations and lead people in truth.

We’ve talked about many times there are so many people who are discouraged with the way the nation is going and there’s a reason we should be concerned with the way the nation is going. But we don’t fall into discouragement. As Christians, we are always people of hope because we know who God is and that God still moves and God does great things. And God, oftentimes, in some of the worst scenarios shows up and does the greatest miracles.

The Old Testament is full of such examples. And so we definitely believe that God has not done with his nation, God’s not done with us. But we want to be part of that solution. And so as we get involved, whether it is actually should be all of the above, right, because I’m not going to say whether you do one of these, you need to do all of them. So if you’re Million Voices, and you’re signing up with John Graves to have a postcard going out to your state rep, your leaders, if you’re part of biblical citizenship, whether you just want to attend the first course see what it’s like, and then you can host future courses, there are lots of ways we can get involved to make a difference in our community.


Alright, friends, we are out of time for today. Thanks to John Graves for joining us. Be sure and check out Million Voices. And make sure that you get your name in the hat, that you get your postcard or your letter sent to your state legislator. Just as we talked about today, what a great way to influence what’s going on out there in the culture, in your particular state. And it’s a little different for all of us. But in essence, the system still works the same. I mean, that’s what a representative government is all about. Those folks that we’ve elected to be in office, even if you didn’t vote for the one that’s in office, they’re supposed to be listening to the people back home and they can’t listen if we aren’t letting our voice be heard. 

So we can’t be silent. We got to let our voice be heard. We got to be engaged in the process. And that’s why I’m so thankful for Million Voices in what they’re doing. What a great way to get involved and make it super easy on you and me to be a part of the solution.

Thank you so much for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.