The Failure of Higher Education: Are we educating or indoctrinating? What are our schools teaching about equality and freedom? Are we teaching a one-sided story? We need to pick wisely where we send our kids to college. We want to find universities that teach absolute truth. David discusses how sunset laws should be applied to universities, more about the indoctrination our kids are receiving at these institutions of higher learning, how we”€™re lacking in graduates in our STEM fields, how liberal ideology is rampantly taking over.  Tune in now to find out if your college of choice is the right choice!

Air Date: 12/28/2017

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture.  This is WallBuilders Live! Where we talk about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, all of it from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, our president here at WallBuilders and a national speaker and pastor. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former, a former Texas state legislator. Got choked up just thinking about it. I”€™m so glad it”€™s former. No —

Thank you for joining us today. Visit online as well. and

We Can Help Bring About Solutions


And speaking of legislators, David, this week we’re sharing your presentation to a group of legislators. Bunch of these guys and gals who came in from all over the country to gather in Dallas, and sharpen each other’s countenance, and talk about ideas. We’re right in the middle of a five-part series. It was one presentation you shared with them on the very specific topic of our university campuses, how bad it is out there, and then talking to these legislators about solutions. And we’re sharing it with our listeners because they can help bring about those solutions.

And they need to be aware of what’s happening on these campuses and really think twice about where they send their kids and their money.

Sunset Laws


And it really was an important thing for us to share it with legislators because legislators are accustomed to what we call “€œSunset”€. And Sunset Laws or Sunset Provisions, a lot of states to this, but boy it”€™d be really good if the feds did this as well. But the states say, “€œYou know what, we’re going to bring an agency into existence. But you’re going to die as an agency in four years unless you can justify your re-existence.”€ Ronald Reagan made a comment once that the closest thing to eternal life is a government agency.

And at the federal level, that”€™s true. You just nearly never get rid of them. But the states are pretty good about saying, “€œOkay, we have a need that needs to be met right now. We’re going to create an agency to handle that. And in four years you’re coming up for re-examination and we’re going to wipe you out if you’re not needed anymore, or if you’re not doing what you’re supposed to.”€

And even in a medical thing – if we have a medical treatment and it’s making us worse rather than better we stop that medical treatment and go to something else. That’s why you consult doctors and you go back and get a different prescription, whatever. But we’re not doing that at the university level. At the university level, the states keep funding these universities and they keep getting worse, and worse, and worse.

Now, if you like young people taking a knee when the National Anthem comes. If you like the fact that 20 percent of them think that violence is the way you respond to free speech you don’t like. If you like the fact that 53 percent of kids coming out of university don’t like the First Amendment and think that there should be restriction of free speech.  And if you like the fact that, right now, more kids come out of university preferring socialism, or communism, or fascism, to capitalism. If you like that, then keep funding exactly what you’re getting.

We Need the Sunset Process on Universities


But what we’re telling legislators is you need to have a sunset process on universities. You need to be able to say, “€œYou know, you guys aren’t producing the product we need.”€™ Three out of four graduates that come out of universities are not able to get jobs in their career fields. The philosophy is wrong. You look at things like that and that’s what needs to be fixed.


And the idea is not to eliminate universities. It’s to keep them accountable, to make sure they’re doing the right thing. Because a sunset provision is to eliminate things that are not productive anymore. I can just imagine people listening going, “€œWait a second, you’re trying to eliminate education.”€ No, no, no, not at all.

We are totally in favor of education. But we are also in favor of education that works, that teaches truth, that has a moral structure, and a moral code, and a moral compass, that believes in absolutes. And this is where, when you look at what universities are doing today, we’ve talked about the indoctrination and the debt, and there’s a lot of things we’ve gotten into. And today we’re getting into a whole lot more and hopefully, you will be glued to your radio as you are listening. But this is something that ultimately there has to be an accountability mechanism or these universities, as they are doing now, will feel free to do whatever nonsense they want with really no consequences for them.

Therefore they”€™re just going to keep going further in the wrong direction because there’s nothing reining them back saying, “€œWait a second, no, no, no, you need to do what’s called the right thing. And this is what it looks like.”€Â  That’s where, really, we have to be people that get involved and say we need some accountability. And that’s even what this sunset idea was about it.

Bad Things Coming Out Because of What We”€™re Putting In


Guys, the reason this is such a bad result that we’re getting when we talk about all the bad things that are coming out of the university campuses, is because of what we’re putting in there. We’re putting a formula in place that produces those kinds of results.  It comes from the type of philosophy of the people that we put in charge of those classrooms that are actually teaching these students these things. And, David, yesterday we left off your presentation where you were about to share even just on the history professor, specifically in that realm the number of Democrat versus Republican professors.  Tim, you pointed out at the end of yesterday’s program that’s a measuring stick.

We’re not saying party politics here, it”€™s just a measuring stick of philosophies. Are they typically conservative or liberal? And, David, you had pointed out in the country we’re 1 to 1 Democrat and Republican. And so today we’re going to answer the question in your presentation, you dive into this – what’s the ratio of history professors? Is it 1 to 1 Democrat to Republican? Is it 2 to 1? 5 to 1?

I asked folks to think about that overnight. You’re going to be shocked when David shares that when we come back from the break. What the difference is on our college campuses. And we’ll explain why, as David was saying, people are kneeling for the National Anthem, why they think responding with violence to speech that you don’t like. All of those negative results, it”€™s because of the input we’re getting from the type of professors we’re putting in front of our of our students.

Stay with us folks we come back we’re going to dive right back into David Barton’s presentation to the legislators on what’s happening on our university campuses. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

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For every one Republican history prof in America, there are 33 Democrat history profs in America. So, if you are a history major in America, you will come out with a liberal progressive view that says America really is a bad nation, we”€™re inherently racist, every evil that’s ever come out of the world is America. America is not an exceptional nation, it is not a special nation. We need to apologize to the world for who we are. That’s the viewpoint that you get if you have American history.

You will learn all the bad and the ugly that ever happened. You will learn nothing of the good. You’ll learn nothing of the statistics where we are in comparison to all other nations. No reason to be proud of America. Matter of fact, you”€™ll take a knee every time you see the flag which is kind of where we are right now.

We Are Funding the Rapid Advance of Liberal Progressivism


That’s because this is the way we teach history at the University level. There’s no institution — we are, with taxpayer dollars, we are funding the rapid advance of liberal progressivism. That’s what we’re doing. We’re not educating, we’re indoctrinated. Let me take you from that to economic profs.

This is the best comparison we have. It is the lowest – for every Democrat — for every Republican economic prof, there are four and a half democrat economic profs. This is the closest that there is of any degree field in university. And we’re still outnumbered four and a half to one. Because we are, this is why you see what we see with the recent presidential trends.

These were all the folks that started on the ballot or announced that they were running for president in 2016. Now they all ran through Iowa. As it turned out, Iowa ran one of the super PACs for one of the presidential candidates. So, I was in Iowa, and we’re all doing our stuff, and Iowa is where it all starts. On the Democrat side, you had Bernie Sanders that was the favorite of college kids.

College kids liked Bernie Sanders compared to Hillary Clinton at a margin of 75 percent to 17 percent – college kids. Now think about that – Hillary Clinton is a liberal progressive, but they don’t like a liberal progressive. They like a liberal progressive who is a socialist. That’s their preference by a margin of four and a half to one. Not — we don’t just want a liberal progressive, we want a liberal progressive socialist.

Why would that be? Because what they have been taught in university is very simple. They’re taught that socialism is high equality and high freedom and that capitalism is low equality high freedom. Now if you can have your choice between high-quality high freedom, and low equality high freedom, what are you going to choose? You”€™re going to choose high-quality high freedom every time – socialism.

That’s Not the Way it Works in Real Life


Except that’s not the way it works in real life. That’s just the way it looks in the classroom. And that’s what the kids get taught. Which is why now they literally believe that capitalism is bad and socialism is good. Capitalism does not give you equality and equality is what everyone needs.

And you get high economic freedom and high quality if you do socialism. That’s why kids right now, as they come out of university, heavily skewed toward a socialist viewpoint. Not toward a liberal progressive, but toward a socialist viewpoint. Now past that, you go past the past economic profs, let’s take law profs. It’s a margin of 9 to 1 which is why we have such a difficult problem with judicial activism right now.

Because for every one Republican law prof, there are nine Democrat law profs and they believe in a living Constitution. And they believe that the Founding Fathers, my gosh, 200 years ago those guys didn’t even know what internet was, they rode horses, they didn’t have cars, they don’t understand, we need a living Constitution. Which is what allows you to have judicial activism. So, that’s why we have such a problem with judicial activism on courts because what we have out of the universities.

Journalism profs 20 to 1. For every Republican journalism prof, there are 20 Democrats. Which is why you take any network and people complain about how all the networks are so pro-Democrat. I wonder why? At a margin of 20 to 1, what we’re turning out of journalism kids, of course, they’re going to be on that side.

Look who’s teaching them. They will pick up the philosophy of who’s teaching them. So, what happens is, if you look at journalism in 1984, 30 years ago, there were 42,000 journalism graduates. If you look at 2012, there were 89,000. We’ve more than doubled the number of kids we”€™re turning out in journalism and they have a heavy Democrat position.

That’s Why You’re Seeing Even FOX Take Left Turns Right Now


So, the more that goes into journalism, go into media, the more that go into– That’s why you’re saying even FOX take left turns right now. FOX is going left because look at all the people that are coming into that arena. When you take something like psychology profs, every 1 Republican there are 17 Democrats. Now as I mentioned, not all Republicans are conservative. Not all Democrats are liberal, but let’s just ignore the party side for a minute.

Let’s just go for philosophy for a moment. If you look at conservative psychology profs – not Republican/Democrat – what you have is this chart down here. Now this in the purple right there, that represents centrist positions – psychology profs who have a centrist position. This represents those who are right of center, this represents those who are left of center. For every 1 psychology prof who is right of center, there are 314 who are left of center.

What’s the chance a kid goes through psychology degree and comes out anywhere close to having a neutral position on anything. No chance because they”€™ve never heard both sides, they”€™ve only heard one side, they’ve been taught one side. So, when you look at psychology profs, again, we looked at that article earlier disregarding the free market, in this year they kicked out 94,000 degrees at a time when there were only 98,000 jobs. Well, in the last three years we”€™ve upped it to 114,000 psychology graduates per year at a time when there’s only 98,000. So, these guys are going to other things, but they’ve been trained with the psychology stuff that’s really twisted left.

So, it doesn’t matter if they’re flipping burgers at McDonald’s, they have a psychology training that puts them on the far left progressive side. Which is where your voters become if they ever get around to voting, so that’s not a good direction. So, again very Democrat oriented field which shouldn’t be. If you take where we are with visual arts, visual and performing arts, we”€™ve doubled the number of graduates since 1985. Now, this is your entertainment media kind of stuff, other things as well.

It”€™s No Longer a Neutral Country


And look at the number of graduates since 1985 and you see we’ve gone from 38,000 to 97,000 heavily dominated. So, look at all these cultural institutions that are now heavily dominated by Democrats. It’s no longer a neutral country with the upcoming generation. It”€™s very much skewed in one particular direction. So, go back to the thing that we’re now graduating more students in psychology than computer science, math, and chemical engineering combine.

More in psychology than all the STEM combined. Take all the STEM, put it together, we got more in psychology. And that’s not where the jobs are, but that’s what we’re graduating because that’s good indoctrination. So, you take this position here. And the question is, why?

How come we’re graduating so few in the STEM areas. And the answer is, math is hard, that”€™s just the way it is. There’s no question about it. Matter of fact, for that matter, writing is really hard. And when math and writing is really hard what’s the solution for that in the academic community?

Here’s the solution for 23 colleges with the University of California. They just announced they have a new solution for how you handle math is hard and writing is hard. At Cal State, they will no longer require any testing in math or English. Because they want higher graduation rates and they noticed the kids come out of high school are having trouble with math and English. So, we’re no longer going to require that as part of your testing anymore because we want to graduate everybody out that comes through.

So, we don’t even test. Now we all know that you teach to what the tests are. That’s just the way things are. If you don’t test on it, you don’t teach on it. So, you teach to the test and we’re no longer going to teach on math or writing.

Math – Unjust and Grounded in a Legacy of Institutional Discrimination?


And so that goes away. And so that’s how we handle this – we just stop teaching. If you haven’t heard the two math organizations out there, math is unjust and grounded in discrimination, educators moan. Two national organizations of math teachers are on a mission to prove that math education is, “€œunjust and grounded in a legacy of institutional discrimination.”€ Now you didn”€™t know that two plus two equals four is actually a racist statement, but that’s institutional–


Math teachers – I thought math teachers should be teaching — no, math teachers teach philosophy now. They teach psychology now because that’s what we graduate out. So, everything is a social justice movement now. No longer is math what you teach. Social justice is what you teach.

Here’s the rest of it – in a joint statement, the two math groups complained that making students master the basics, multiplication tables etc., leads to segregation and separation. And they call on math instructors to adopt a social justice stance in the classroom. So, by the way, those are math teachers soon coming back to your school districts in your area because this is what we’re generating even out of the math areas, the STEM areas. So, we don’t test it anymore, we come back with that. That’s why Cal State is one of the schools doing that.

When you look at the total, you take any major you want, 1,800 majors, you look at the total of Democrats to Republicans it is 11 to 1 across the board. So, that’s nowhere close to turning out an academic product that is anywhere close to neutral and understands issues on all sides. You turning out social justice warriors at a high rate. Now, when you look at that the worldview of professors, let me give you some examples of it. And again, these are examples, there are some good professors out there.

Too Much Fine Art Leading to White Supremacy?


These are the ones I want to show you because this is not surprising and not dispositive, if you will, for what’s going on in universities. This one is a good place to start- professor white marble and artwork contributes to white supremacy. In a recent op-ed, Professor Sara Bàn argued that the white marble often seen in classical artwork was initially colored. As a result, she suggests that the equation of white marble beauty contributes to white supremacist ideas today. This is the reason that Americans are white supremacist today is because they’ve seen too much fine art because all the fine art is white – really?

And all that used to be colored marble and somehow over time has become white marble? No, it all depends on the quarry where you mine the marble from. That doesn’t make any difference to them. So, again this is professors and what they’re teaching on Fine Art.

Here’s a professor — this dealt with the shooting, the congressional shooting, on the ball field. And this was after the shooting, everybody that was shot by the shooter should have been left on the field to die because they’re all whites and all — And by the way, this is white professors saying this – it”€™s not a racist thing, it’s whites or anti-white, which is crazy. This is Texas A&M University, “€œWhen is it okay to kill whites?”€ Professor at Texas A&M, “€œIn order to be equal, in order to be liberated, some white people might have to die.”€ That’s what we’re teaching kids now – interesting.

So, you also have a University of Texas at Tyler, Professor Dykes calls for the *queering of higher education itself. As if it wasn’t already in that direction, let’s make it more so. You have Clemson, “€œAll Republicans are racist scum.”€ As he points out at Clemson University, professors are labeling all Donald Trump supporters and all Republicans as racist scum and demanding that you’d announce your affiliation or admit you’re a racist. He even advocated direct violence against Republicans.

You have the University of Texas professor who’s saying we need to kill off 90 percent of the people on the planet in order to save the planet. It”€™d be really good if we had a virus that can be released that would wipe out 90 percent. You had the professor over in Florida who said what happened with Hurricane Harvey in Texas was karma because that”€™s a Republican state and that’s what happens with Republican states. This is just the universe getting even for how wicked Republicans are and how racist they are.

You Can”€™t Even Use “€œMankind”€


Here’s a student who got their grade knocked down because they used the word “€œmankind”€ in a paper. You can’t even use the word “€œmankind”€. That’s why right now today on campus, 53 percent of students do not support free speech. They want restrictions on free speech. 53 percent of kids on campus right now have been hearing professors like that and they don’t think that free speech is something that we should protect anymore.

They’re used to seeing those little five foot squares. And see, their deal is, we condemn all speech that hurts others. That sign hurts my feelings, but that doesn’t– that’s not what they’re talking about – anything that hurts their feelings. Which is why when Ben Shapiro went to Berkeley recently, they provided counseling for students who might hear conservative ideas from Ben Shapiro who was at Berkeley. And by the way, they put 600,00 dollars up in security for him to give this speech.

Really? We”€™re using money, 600,000, because we’ve created an environment where that when a conservative”€™s speaking, they need massive police protection. And we have to pay for counselors who might hear a conservative idea and it gets — This is where our money’s going? Okay, so back here, college students oppose free speech at a free speech protection rate two to three times higher than previous generations.

By the way, you need to see the other tweet he sent out, he said, “€œWill the Second Amendment be as cool when I buy a gun and start shooting at random white people or no.”€ So, let’s rant against the Second Amendment and let’s also say that we’re going to be shooting racist whites. Again, the indoctrination stuff. Dartmouth scholar endorses Antifa violence which, as it turns out now, 19 percent of college students believe that violence is an acceptable response of free speech.

What Happens From This Kind of Thinking


So, that’s why a generation from now you can expect limitations, the same thing the Scandinavians have done, “€œWe will not let you criticize Islam because when you do our people get killed. So you can’t say anything bad about Islam anymore.”€ Remember the legislator and the parliamentarian who got shot because he criticized Islam? Then they banned the criticism of Islam all the way. That’s what happens from this kind of thinking.

Man, it”€™s getting quiet in here, you guys getting depressed? Don”€™t – there’s good stuff going. Sixty-two percent of college presidents say higher education is headed in the right direction. Sorry, the public doesn’t agree with that, parents don’t agree with that. But this is how insulated they are in their bubble.

There’s no accountability right now with higher education. They’re inside that echo chamber where they don’t– and I say no accountability, sure there is, but not the degree that needs to be for the kind of product we’re turning out. And again, I’m not trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Understand, I”€™m given you examples of the trends that are there, polls of the trends are there. There are good colleges, there are good professors, there’s some Democrats are not bad at all, I”€™ve got some articles of Democrats trying to do the right thing, some Republicans are bad.

So, I’m not trying to stereotype – I’m showing you general trends.

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Biographical Sketches

Hi friends! This is Tim Barton of WallBuilders.This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. I know, oftentimes as parents, we”€™re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

If you remember back in the Bible, the Book of Hebrews it has the Faith Hall of Fame, where they outlined the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity and our faith as well.

I wanted to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called, “€œThe Courageous Leaders Collection“€ and this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers.

There’s a second collection called, “€œHeroes of History“€ in this collection you read about people like Benjamin Franklin, Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, the list goes on and on.

This is a great collection for your young person to have and read. And it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at


Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. We’re back in studio now with David and Tim and we will pick up David’s presentation tomorrow, so for part 4. Then the conclusion next Monday with Part 5.

How Do You Pick Wisely?


David, Tim, now, David, you were pointing out there that there are some good college campuses and good professors. I just want to make sure people at home aren’t thinking, “€œOh well good. Well, maybe it’s my favorite football team that’s one of the good campuses.”€ How do they find and pick wisely where their students are going to go and not end up with their kid being indoctrinated with all this liberal philosophy?


Well, don’t go to the measure of U.S. News and World Report, the elite colleges and universities. Because they don’t use the same measurements that most folks care about. Things you should care about would be truth. You want truth that is absolute truth. People don’t get to make up their own truth.

We don’t have 330 million measures for truth, but that’s what professors largely teach now is that truth is individually determined. So, if you want — if you’re looking at a university for your kid, what you need to do is go talk to the university administration, and go talk to the professors and say, “€œIs there absolute truth? If so, how do you measure that, how do you know?”€ “€œWell, it’s individually determined”€ or “€œWe vote on that and that’s what laws are for.”€

No, there are absolutes. We call them laws of nature and nature’s God. There are absolutes. So that’s a good way of knowing is just asking about truth from any of the professor’s.

Talk Before You Invest


Well, now people may be thinking they’re not going to talk — Folks, if you were going to invest 100,000 dollars into some business, don’t you think someone at that business might be willing to talk to you before you invest in it? That’s what you’re doing. You’re going to put 100,000 dollars in most universities over that four years, or five years, or whatever, for your student to go. They will talk to you about these things.


And actually, Rick, we have a friend who’s a university president, we actually have several friends who are university presidents, and he actually told us that. He said parents should go to the university president and they should say, “€œHey, how do you measure truth at this university? Is there absolute truth? Is there absolute moral truth?”€ That’s a different question from absolute truth – “€œIs there absolute moral truth?”€

“€œAre there moral rights and wrongs.”€ And if you’re going to put 100,000 dollars into a university, that university president knows that, and he will take your questions. And if he doesn’t, then you need to find in university where the professors and the presidents will take your questions. And if they don’t, that’s a pretty good indication that’s probably not where you want to send your kids.


And don’t assume because it’s got “€œChristian”€ in the name, or “€œBaptist”€ in the name, that that school”€™s automatically be going to be teaching truth. Go to the information and some folks are going to say, “€œWell, give me at least some ideas.”€ Look, we do — we think there are about a dozen or 15 colleges out there still doing a great job. I mean, Liberty University, and Patrick Henry, and Dallas Baptist, and Oklahoma Wesleyan – there’s not a whole lot of them, but there’s a handful. But do that homework and make sure you’re making a good decision on those things.

Don”€™t Miss Part Four – We”€™ll Be Getting into Some of the Solutions Like Sunset Laws


We’re out of time for today, folks. We’re going to be right back on this topic tomorrow. Don’t miss part 4. We’re going to pick up on David’s presentation to the legislators and dive into a lot more of this information. It’s great stuff and we hope that you’ll share it with your friends and family.

And these last two days that we’re going to do on this we’ll be getting into some of the solutions for how we turn this thing around. Thanks so much for listening to WallBuilders Live.