Faucian Bargain, Unfounded Covid Fears – With Steve Deace, Part 1: Today’s broadcast is one you don’t want to miss and will definitely want to share, as we review actual COVID data, instead of hypothetical models. What is the case-fatality rate for the virus? Is it really deadlier than the flu? Is asymptomatic spread a true concern? Are the CDC’s numbers reliable? Why are people being banned from social media when discussing cures that actually work? Tune in to hear Steve Deace discuss his new book Faucian Bargain: The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History.

Air Date: 04/20/2021

Guest: Steve Deace

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


Welcome the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live, where we’re talking about today’s hot topics on policy, faith, culture, all the things that affect your life, your backyard, your home, your family, your church, your business, all of that.

Whenever government interacts with us and has a regulation or a law or anything that affects our lives, we should have a position on that. We should know what the Bible says about it, what history teaches us about it, and what the Constitution says about it. That’s why here on WallBuilders Live, we look at everything from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

We’re thrilled that you’re here with us. You can learn more about the program at wallbuilderslive.com. It’ll tell you about the hosts here. 

My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator, and America’s Constitution coach, and David Barton is America’s premier historian, he’s our founder here at WallBuilders, Tim Barton a national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. And all that information is available on our website, wallbuilderslive.com.

That’s also where you can get archives the program. So if you missed any shows last week or two, you can check those out at wallbuilderslive.com. And then of course, that’s the place to make your one-time or monthly contribution. 

Your donations are what make it possible for us to bring this truth to the airwaves and to get it to as many Americans as possible. We’re a listener-supported program, so thank you for being one of those supporters that has been out there supporting not only what we’re doing financially, but also sharing the program with as many people as possible.

Anyone listening right now, you can be a part of the solution. You can either host a Constitution class in your home, or church, or whatever it might be. You can donate, and you can spread the program by sharing it with your friends and family. So check that out at wallbuilderslive.com today and be a part of that solution.

And by the way, our new course Biblical Citizenship in Modern America, the one that’s only been out a couple of months and has Kirk Cameron and Mat Staver and Rob McCoy, and all these other folks in it, it is exploding across the country. Classes all over the nation have started and you can be one of the ones to host that. 

The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History

It’s a great way to study that biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective with regard to our role as citizens and how we live out biblical citizenship in America. Really encourage you to check that out today and biblicalcitizens.com, get signed up, host the class. You don’t have to know anything about any of those subjects to be one of our coaches and host the class. 

You just got to get the people in a room, hit play, and then have some great fellowship together as you do this search into our biblical foundations for our nation, but then also how to apply the Bible to the issues happening today. Check it out at biblicalcitizens.com today.

We’ve got a very special program today and tomorrow , Steve Deace is going to be with us we’re going to be talking about his new book, “Faucian Bargain: The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History”. This book went number one, shot the number one on Amazon almost overnight. It is incredible. 

It is freeing people from the fear of this whole COVID-19 situation. It takes it seriously, but it gives you the real science and the real data so that you can make personal decisions about this in an informed way, but also so that we can influence our government and get out from under these COVID crackdowns basing our decisions on science, rather than being based on fear.

 So check out the book today, Faucian Bargain by Steve Deace and Todd Erzen. We’re going to take a quick break, when we come back, Steve Deace will be with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. The Reverend James Caldwell was a famous minister during the American war for independence. His sermons taught liberty and God’s opposition to tyranny. 

The British hated him and tried to kill them. So for his own protection, he would actually take loaded pistols with him into the pulpit and lay them beside his Bible as he preached.

In the 1780, Battle of Springfield, the Americans ran out of wadding for their guns, which was like having no ammunition. Pastor Caldwell ran inside a nearby church and returned with an arm load of watts hymnals, the pages of which would provide the much needed wadding. He took this great Bible based hymnal raised it in the air and shouted to the troops “Now put watts into them, boys.” This pastor’s ingenuity saved the day for the Americans.

For more information on Pastor James Caldwell and other colonial patriots, go to wallbuilders.com.


Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have at WallBuilders called The American Story. For so many years, people have asked us to do a history book to help tell more of the story that’s just not known or not told today. And we would say very providentially in the midst of all of the new attacks coming out against America, whether it be from things like the 1619 project that say America is evil.

And everything in America was built off slavery, which is certainly not true or things like even the Black Lives Matter movement, the organization itself, not out the statement, Black Lives Matter. But the organization that says we’re against everything that America was built on, and this is part of the Marxist ideology. There’s so many things attacking America.

Well, is America worth defending? What is the true story of America? We actually have written and told that story starting with Christopher Columbus, going roughly through Abraham Lincoln, we tell the story of America not as the story of a perfect nation of a perfect people. But the story of how God used these imperfect people and did great things through this nation. It’s a story you want to check out wallbuilders.com, The American Story.


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Really excited about our guest today, Steve Deace is with us. Number one book, not just political books on Amazon, I mean, out of everything out there. It tells you how bad this was needed, Faucian Bargain. Steve, thanks for coming on, man. Appreciate your time today.


 I appreciate it, Rick. I mean, WallBuilders has definitely been an aid to me in my work, in my study over the years. And so it’s a pleasure to be here.


Well, it’s interesting you put it that way, because over the last year, you’ve been more than that to us. And to me personally, I kept my sanity partly by listening to your show, you and Horwitz, both just bring in truth when it was so hard to find. In fact, that’s kind of where I want to start with you, I mean so much we got to cover but I really want to encourage people to get the book today: “Faucian Bargain: The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History.”

Bypassing Normal Publishers

And I’m guessing, Steve, you want to keep sending them to Amazon so you can stay up there in those top five, right?


But once we had a big spike wave on Amazon, and we went there originally, Rick, because we decided to bypass the normal publishing process of hard covers and distribution that takes six months. We didn’t want to have this content sitting on the sidelines that long.  

So we went right to our publisher, we went right to paperback, where we could be doing constant and instant fulfillment. And the only outlet in the world that I can do that through is Amazon. 83% of all books sold in this country are via amazon.com.

But I understand why a lot of people don’t want to do business with them. So once we hit our peak on Amazon, we went ahead and place the book last week over at Barnes & Noble as well. We’ve been in the top 10 overall at Barnes & Noble all this week too. So if you don’t want to do business with Amazon and Jeff Bezos, I can’t blame you. But so now you’ve got another option. You can do it via Barnes & Noble too.

And if I can mention one other thing, we are so thankful, sort of, to Anthony Fauci for inspiring this book, that we just thought he should also inspire a second wave. And so earlier today, we have launched an effort where you can actually send Anthony Fauci a copy of the book. We put his address there at his department. It’s up on our Facebook pages and our social medias. 

And I’ve gotten I mean, dozens upon dozens of people already who have texted me or emailed me. Yep, I’ve sent him a book. I sent him four. I sent him five. I sent him three myself. 

You know, it’d be just a shame if he got up one morning and that final climactic courtroom scene and miracle on 34th street when all the letters get dropped off. It’d be a shame if you have just Amazon truck after Amazon truck after Amazon truck kept showing up there at Anthony Fauci’s office with copies of the book he inspired.


I love it, the second wave as well. Well, I don’t even know what to tell people now because I was going to tell them to do what I did. I’m just not saying this because you’re on the show. 

Give Them Away

I bought 10, and I’m giving them to friends and family. I also did the Audible as well. So I was going to tell everybody go order, do better than me order even more than 10 and get this out to folks. But now, I guess do both order, get them in and then send some to Fauci himself as well.

Okay, man, we got to dive in. Because there’s so much to cover, so people, we’re just hitting, I mean, literally scratching the surface here, so you got to get the book itself. But let’s start with it, before we even get to Fauci, just COVID-19 deception itself. First of all, tell me how deadly is the virus itself versus what we’ve been told and the deception out there, the number of deaths and that sort of thing?


Well, from the very beginning, whenever I started talking about this well over a year ago, I am separating the public health care, or your personal health care from the public policy. Okay. And so I don’t give medical advice. I’m not a doctor. But I am a data analyst, and so here’s what the data says macro. That doesn’t construe if you test positive what it means to you. But on a macro level, here is what the data shows.

The Actual Case-Fatality Rate

Right now, the case fatality rate, meaning if you get diagnosed with a case, and then what are the odds you will die? The case fatality rate in America right now is 1.8%. That’s the case fatality rate for COVID-19. 

If you are overall, it is less deadly than the flu to the wider population, meaning we see children die of flu, we see young men die of flu. This is a very specifically targeted virus. And if you were in those groups, that is far deadlier to you than the flu is, but that’s a separate question, Rick, than public policy.

I mean, we’re quarantining all kinds of healthy people for something that is either no danger to them or is not spread asymptomatically by and large as most respiratory viruses aren’t, which was the genesis, the origins for why we had to do this. There’s been numerous studies around the world that show our CDC itself estimates the number is 15%, which means 85% of cases are not spread asymptomatically. But across the world there, those studies actually show the numbers are anywhere from 3-8%. So asymptomatic spread is frankly a bunk, and that was the rationale….


Yeah, that was a reason everybody had to stay home, right, because you wouldn’t know you were sick, you’d give it to a bunch of people?

Quarantine the Healthy?


This is the first plague in all of human history where you quarantine the healthy, because you didn’t know you got captain trips, and you were going to go to a ballgame and get it and not know it and then go to grandma’s house on Sunday and kill her. Well, that’s not true. It’s not primarily or even secondarily asymptomatically spread. In fact, intra-familia spread is the number one way to actually contract it within your own household.

The other thing I can tell you is that the infection fatality rate, which from a public policy standpoint, is even more important because that determines how we deal with this on a corporate level as a culture. 

Well, our CDC currently estimates anywhere from 8-10 times more infections than our testing has been able to identify. They nearly get zero prevalence or antibody studies across the country. They have typically found anywhere from 12-25 times more infections.

So let’s just go with a nice round number of 10. So we have 10 times more infections than we’ve caught via the cases, and the case fatality rate is 1.8%. That would make the infection fatality rate 0.18% or slightly above the flu at 0.1. 

Also, a pandemic level flu, which is exactly what Fauci predicted in February 28th of last year in the New England Journal of Medicine when he wrote a paper about the moderate corporate risk of COVID-19, and that forecast has turned out to be exactly correct.


Well, and you mentioned in the book that we knew that last year. I can’t remember if it was San Diego, or where it was where they showed 25 or 30 times whatever it was, that had actually had the infection. So is like new data, we had this a year ago, and still did everything we did.


No. All of our original assumptions are correct. None of our original assumptions have been challenged by any of the real time data we’ve accumulated in the last year, they’ve all been confirmed. The median age for death of COVID in America is 78. 

Look at Sweden

That’s the average lifespan of an American. We didn’t save the elderly. 95% of all deaths in America have been 50 and over. 41% of all deaths in America, Rick, have occurred in long term care facilities or nursing homes were less than 1% of the population lives.

So again, we did all of this to save grandma, and we didn’t save Grandma. Actually, we still sent them to the nursing homes to be isolated and to die. I mean, I could go on and on. Let me just drop one more data nugget on you. 

And in our books, “Faucian Bargain”, and you know this because you’ve read it, there’s more footnotes than pages. I mean, I didn’t just go down into the valley of Elah with five smooth stones, brother, brought receipts and footnotes and bookmarks. Okay?


That’s right. Yes.


And so I mean, there’s enough to at least get an indictment here, if not a conviction. But here to me is one of the ultimate mic drops. It’s kind of funny that the country that gave us Greta Thunberg has turned out to be the control group here on mitigation efforts. And so Sweden has done virtually nothing late last year. 

They did a modest form of curfew, mass public events were shut down for a bit, bars and restaurants had to close at 11pm. And that’s it. They had the lowest mask, they did that, and that was temporary. They had the lowest mask compliance in the entire European Union. Alright?

And so last year, in 2020, Sweden suffered 7% higher excess deaths than its previous four year average. The average for every other country in the European Union is anywhere from 12-18%, higher excess deaths than its last four years of rolling average. That’s Sweden, the control group for the win.


Wow. So they did less than everyone else in terms of these interventions, and ended up doing better in terms of excess deaths than anyone else? Okay, I’ve got to ask you about the total deaths. 

Was the CDC Right?

We keep seeing this 500,000 plus number in America, but apparently, so many of those are with COVID instead of from COVID. What is the difference there? And why do we keep getting that deception?


Well, with COVID, there’s only been 6% of the deaths was the last estimate from CDC. Now, that was well in the last summer, so we’re almost going on a year ago, when I think that came out last July or August. So let’s again go within, I like round numbers when we’re doing these estimates just because it makes everybody’s math in their heads easier.

Let’s say the number has increased to 10%. So let’s say, no more than 10% of the deaths have been people who had no preexisting comorbidity or condition, meaning they were otherwise healthy, and then they contracted COVID and died. Now that does not mean that the other 94% or 90% of deaths that COVID did not contribute to. 

Alright. It’s a little bit like if you have an elderly grandfather or parent, and they have a preexisting lung issue, for example, and then they contract pneumonia in the bad pneumonia season, and their capacity is diminished, and so they can’t defeat it and die.

Did the pneumonia defeat them, or caused their death, Rick? Or their comorbidity? And medically the answer is yes. Okay? So that does not mean that 90-94% of these deaths are bunk. But even Debbie Burks herself, who is also a quack, estimated last year that we were overestimating our deaths with COVID because of upcoding by 25-30%. 

There was a story in Florida last year where a guy died in a motorcycle accident, he is getting coded as a COVID death. We’re basically COVID testing anybody, any dead body whatsoever, and if it tests positive, no matter what its other comorbidity was, you jumped off a roof, what have you? If the sample in the autopsy test positive for COVID, it goes down as died with COVID.

So who actually knows? There was one study I saw a couple of weeks ago, and I’ve not had a chance to check it out, so I don’t want to give it full accreditation yet. But it estimated that the actual COVID death count when you get rid of the upcoding, and things of that nature was probably somewhere around 350,000, which is still obviously a terrible number. But keep in mind, we’re talking about a population here of 330 million people, Rick.

A “Compelling” Interest?



Alright. So even if those current 577,000 deaths are all legit, that is 0.17% of the American population. Let me repeat that, 0.17%. Alright? And so why is anything in the country anywhere still locked down when it’s we’re talking about that small of a percentage of then pop, and the fears of asymptomatic spread frankly just aren’t realized?


In the thing that I think, caused so many of us to totally lose faith in the “experts and the data and the numbers” were those cases where, in fact, I just had Pastor Rob McCoy in Ventura County, California, where they been after him, suing him and as a result of his countersuit as a pastor trying to keep his church open; you know, they looked into the 100 deaths at that time in that county, and only two of them were from COVID. 

And they had things that were literally car accidents, fentanyl overdoses, I mean, all kinds of crazy things. And those are the reason that so many of us said, well, I can’t believe anybody now. I mean, if they’re not going to give us accurate data, how can we possibly say, we’re going to take away people’s constitutional rights?

 How is there a compelling interest here to do the things that we’ve done? So that data is vitally important, and we just haven’t had good data to look at?

In the same way, Steve, you talked about the cures, you’ve talked about, I mean, all of these different things, Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, I mean, all these things that apparently worked really well when you actually follow the doctors that are using them. 

But Fauci doesn’t talk about those things, the State health directors don’t talk about those things. Why are they ignoring or in many cases, removing you from social media if you simply talk about some of these things that are actually working and saving lives?

Steve will get a chance to answer that question when we come back. We got to take one more break. Stay with us, folks, we’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.


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We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Steve Deace, our guest today the book is Faucian Bargain: “The Most Powerful and Dangerous Bureaucrat in American History”,  shot to number one on Amazon. You got to get this book, actually, get multiple copies of this book and get it in the hands of as many people as you possibly can.

Steve, right before the break, set up the question for you with regard to the cures that are out there, and the fact that Fauci doesn’t talk about them, the State health directors don’t talk about them. We’ve literally hidden the good news that there are cures and that people’s lives are being saved and it just seems criminal to me that we don’t talk about this. Why is Fauci and others, why are they hiding the good news from the American people?


All of the potential answers to those questions are bad. And let me put this to you and your audience this way. If they, I’m not saying they are, but if they were purposefully attempting to discredit drugs that have proven to be safe, and at least on some level added with additives such as zinc.

Purposefully Discrediting Cures?

For example, to be effective prophylactics, if they were as seriously, purposefully attempting to discredit those drugs to get them off the market in order to clear a path on the market for experimental substances that have a much higher dollar value, if they were cynically doing that purposely, what would they be doing any differently? Nothing is the answer.

So with hydroxychloroquine, you know, and I said this on my show recently, Rick, if I could go back and do anything over the last year again, it’s I would have fought harder for that. I thought I was a little over my skis because we’re talking about a specific now treatment, and I’m not a physician. I mean, I grew up with a nurse, you know, I know enough to be dangerous. And that’s about it. Okay?

The other thing, too, is at the time that this was raging hot, the largest study on hydroxychloroquine in the world came out last spring, published in The Lancet, and it was a pretty devastating tech takedown on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine. The idea that it wasn’t safe is just ridiculous. It’s been FDA approved for 60 years. So that’s a separate argument.

But when that study came out, I kind of took the wind out of the sails of the story, and we kind of just moved on to other topics. Well, then a month or two later, and we point this out in our book, Faucian Bargain. That entire study had to be retracted: it was complete and total bunk. Just garbage. Just propaganda. They ended up having to retract that study.


It was a hippies, I mean, literally a hippies.


And so what I can tell your audience we know for sure is Switzerland. Switzerland, when the initial Lancet study came out, they were preemptively giving their elderly and dangerous demographics. So if you have autoimmune deficiency, diabetes, morbidly obese, you would be in those dangerous demographics. 


They were giving people that tested positive, they had a national program of hydroxychloroquine as a preemptive prophylaxis. When the study came out from Lancet, they cancel that: they saw their death numbers just spiral. When they went back and reinstituted hydroxychloroquine as the prophylactics, they saw their death numbers stabilize again.

Now the data we’re seeing right now real time for Ivermectin is even more promising than what we’ve seen out of hydroxychloroquine, which is why they’re taking a different tack this time. They’re now saying we’re tabling it for study, we’re tabling it for study. You’re trying to run out the clock basically. 

So in my view, hydroxychloroquine was be smirched to make room for Remdesivir, which turned out to be a colossal failure. And I think Ivermectin it’d be smirched to make room for the vaccines that have hit the market now, because ultimately, in the end, the virus is serious. But the real contagion is the spirit of the age that is using it for its own purposes. And the spirit of the age, Rick, is about two things and two things only: power and control.


Yeah,, no doubt, man and it’s anecdotal. But my own 76 year old father nearly died from COVID. Doctor gave him hydroxychloroquine, nursed him back to health with hydroxychloroquine. So that one’s a little bit personal to me: that was back in August. And I was the same way, up until then I was hesitant to talk about it. 

But after I watched it happen with him, and just to me criminal that our officials haven’t talked about, including my own governor with all of his shutdowns in Texas never talks about the hope that is found..


No, I think, it’s a human rights violation. Like I think that we’ve taken people to the Hague, I think we hung people at Nuremberg for about what some of these public officials have done with hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin in the last year. How many lives could have been saved?

It’s Sickening


That’s right. Yeah. And the medical boards and the others that have done the same thing, they’ve made it more difficult to get these cures into the hands of the American people, just the amount of lives it’s sickening to think about and I think, actually criminal. Okay, we’ve got to get to Fauci himself and talk about what happened here, Faucian Bargain is the name of the book.

We’re going to have to get to the second part of this interview in tomorrow’s program. But I really want to encourage you to get the book, not only for yourself, but for your friends and family. Tomorrow when we’re finishing up the interview with Steve, we will talk about this whole issue of people being gripped by fear.

How do you shake them out of that? How do you get people to open up again and live their lives and you’ve got to get truth and into their hands? This book is a great way to wake them up and give them that information. Faucian Bargain by Steve Deace and Todd Erzen, you can get it at bookstores everywhere, but for sure at Amazon and also, Barnes & Noble, check it out there

Also today, really want to encourage you to visit our website, wallbuilderslive.com. And consider making a one time or monthly contribution. As a listener-supported program, the way we’re able to bring you guys like Steve, the way we’re able to do Good News Fridays every week, and Foundations of Freedom Thursdays and all the other great interviews is because of supporters just like yourself. So please consider it wallbuilderslive.com today, making that one-time our monthly contribution. And then make sure you hit the website.

Faucian Bargain, Unfounded Covid Fears – With Steve Deace, Part 1

If for some reason, you’re not going to be able to hear the program tomorrow to get the conclusion of the interview with Steve Deace, you can get it at our website at any time in the archive section. So do that at wallbuilderslive.com today.

I mentioned at the beginning of the program, biblicalcitizens.com. That is the website where you can get access to the Biblical Citizenship in Modern America Course. That is our new one just came out in January. 

We have hundreds and hundreds of classes going all over the country right now. 25,000 people have signed up to take the class with me on Monday nights. It’s just phenomenal, the hunger that is out there for truth, for becoming biblical citizens. How do we apply the Bible to our citizenship and it certainly applies specifically to our health and our health care policies as a nation. 

All of the things we’re talking about with Steve Deace, today and tomorrow, also, that biblical worldview is absolutely essential to be able to address this issue accurately. So get into one of those biblical citizenship classes. Biblicalcitizens.com is the website to sign up today.

I want to thank Steve Deace for joining us today. He’ll be with us again tomorrow for the conclusion of this interview. It’s a two part series, so don’t miss tomorrow with Steve Deace right here on WallBuilders Live. Thank you so much for listening today to WallBuilders Live.