Who Is The FBI Spying On? – With Congressman Jim Jordan: How many Americans have been spied on by the FBI without a  warrant? Is the FBI spying on parents attending school board meetings? What should Republicans do with a 2022 win? Tune in to our special interview with the man who’s willing to ask tough questions to get to the truth, Congressman Jim Jordan.

Air Date: 06/22/2022

Guest: Congressman Jim Jordan

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live. We are taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. 


I’m Rick Green, former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. And I’m here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders, and Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. We’re thankful for you joining us. Be sure and visit our website as well, that’s wallbuilderlive.com, wallbuilderlive.com. 


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A Special Guest


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Alright, David and Tim, we got Congressman Jim Jordan with us a little later in the program. You know, and listen, Jordan’s been in the news a lot lately, you know, just one of those guys that’s willing to speak truth. He speaks at WallBuilders Pastors conferences when we have those and just a great leader in Washington, but also somebody the Left loves to pick on. I think wasn’t he one of the ones that would have been on the January 6th committee, but Pelosi nixed?




Yeah, he was one of those guys and they were actually several that they wanted to be on the committee because they were really going to try to do an investigation, get to the bottom of it. And then it turned out to be a propaganda tool rather than a committee investigation. And so there were several guys, good folks, when I say guys, guys and gals, so men and women, congressmen, congresswomen that really were recommended for that committee by the Republicans. And that’s usually how you do it. 


Both parties recommend people they would like to see on the committees, and that’s kind of where the committees get formed. On the Budget Committee, the Republicans choose their members and the Democrats choose their members; in armed services, same way. Well, this turned out to be a showpiece and not an investigation committee. And so people like Jim Jordan, Jim and others like him were not allowed on that committee because they would have asked hard questions and dug into stuff that would not be in line with what that committee was trying to do. 


Asking the Hard Questions

And that really is part of the interesting stuff I find about Jim is he asks a lot of hard questions in his hearings of a lot of different people and tries to get to the bottom of what he thinks might be something bad. But he gives you a chance to dig yourself out if he’s misunderstood or whatever. He’s really fair about it. 


But he’s just absolutely relentless when he thinks the government has crossed a line or gone over a constitutional boundary or gotten into an inalienable right. I mean, he’s relentless in asking really tough questions. And that’s why they really don’t kind of like him on committees like that as he thinks the truth is really important. 




Well, and that’s the very thing you want, right, in a congressman that on every level, whether it’s just the budget. Even if you’re just having some agency come before Congress and have to justify their budget and you want those guys that are willing to ask the tough questions and dig into those things. And of course, a hot topic right now that he is digging into is how many Americans have basically been spied on by the FBI without a warrant. 

Department of Homeland Security

And in the numbers are quite staggering. And, you know, listen, we’ve all three talked over the years about how important it is to be able to stop terrorism. We’re supportive of the proper government function in national defense and those kind of things. But we also recognize, as the founders did, that these things can be abused, which is why Congress has to stay on top of these things. And you want guys like Jordan asking the tough questions to prevent as much of that abuse as you possibly can. 




Well, it’s interesting too that a lot of what we’re seeing now was stuff that was predicted years ago by a lot of us. I mean, it was under George W Bush, where we created the Department of Homeland Security, and that was because of the terrorist attacks. And there were so many agencies not talking to each other. Apparently, there were agencies who had information of potential terrorist attack, but the FBI wasn’t talking to other departments. And so the Department of Homeland Security was to bring all that together so that we could share information, which they weren’t doing. 


But even back then, we said, no, wait a minute, if you create something like this, they can end up spying on Americans. I mean, they could take this chart of purposes about making sure America is secure and they could start getting really intrusive in going into private information of individuals and checking individuals just to make sure rather than having probable cause or warrants and people said, nah, that’s not going to happen, we have the Constitution. 

A Whistle Blower

Well, guess what? It’s happened and that’s part of what we’ve seen is, even to the point of saying, hey, let’s have investigations and the parents who show up at school board meetings and don’t like what the schools are doing because they’re domestic terrorist. Really? 


How did we get from flying a plane into a building to a parent saying I don’t like these gender transition clauses in the grooming that’s been done to my kids, etc.? How does that become a terrorist? And so that’s what Jim is really diligent on. He asks really hard questions because I think he sees down the road and he’s been in government long enough to know that man, so many things that start right don’t end right. 


And so he’s there to be, if you will, a whistle blower, not in the sense of pointing out stuff, but bringing the public attention and being a voice that is happy to call out what he sees as being unconstitutional actions by any agency of government. And it’s just been very courageous and very relentless on that. He’s been a great friend of all Americans who love the Constitution quite frankly. 




And dad, to your point, I mean, at this point, he’s not having foresight looking ahead to see where the problems might be. He literally is calling out the problems that are happening right now. And he’s been calling some of these out for years. But especially even the reason we want to have him on right now is because of things happening right now, evidence and information coming out right now of what the government is doing, but he is one of those guys that… 

Fun to Watch

Generally speaking, committees are not very fun to watch. There’s not a lot of action that happens. But there are some people that when they’re in a committee and they get their few minutes in the committee, they’re definitely worth tuning into. 


And Jim Jordan is always that guy because he’s so well thought. He remembers so much information and he’s able to hold people’s feet to the fire more times than not just using the words they said. And one of the things we know is very true in a lot of political circles, a lot of the administrative state is the levels of hypocrisy and the inconsistency and the double standards. 


And really, over the last decade or two, we have not seen really anybody be as effective and consistent as calling out some of those things as Jim Jordan. And there are some other individuals in Congress, some other senators that we really do appreciate and do a great job. 


But Jim is just such a great, courageous leader, and he sees things so clearly where a lot of Americans, even a lot of other congressmen and senators, it seems like they have kind of forgotten some of the accusations or some of the inconsistencies and some of the behaviors along the way. Jim is a guy, his mind is a steel trap and he doesn’t let hardly anything out of there. 


And so, again, he’s one of those guys on committee. He’s really fun to watch the way he can just eviscerate the inconsistent hypocrisy and lies from so many of these leftist woke bureaucrat administrative individuals. So I’m excited to have him on the program and get a little insight from him on stuff going on. 

Blocked From the Committee



Yeah, I was thinking, Tim, as you were describing that and it’s been, I don’t know, three years ago maybe at one of the Pastors’ briefings and I just remember when he was speaking, he’s just rattling off all these things off the top of his head in lists of, I don’t remember what the topic was, but it was like a list of all the offenses against whatever it was. 


And I was going when this guy, I mean, I’d watched him on the news and watched him in interviews and stuff, but I was just thinking this guy is sharp and he keeps all of that stuff right there on the tip of his tongue, which is why in a committee he could be so deadly to the opposite side because he’s going to pick apart those arguments.


And he’s the last guy Nancy Pelosi would have wanted on that January 6th committee because he would have just blown right through all of the show trial stuff that they were doing. So, pretty cool that we get to have him on the program today. 


We’re going to take a quick break, guys, we’ll be right back. Jim Jordan, our special guest. Stay with us. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live. 




This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. America is a special and unique nation. The average length for a Constitution in other countries is only 17 years. But we’ve had ours for over two centuries. And our 4% of the world’s population produces 24% of the world’s gross domestic product. And every year, we produce more inventions and technology than the other 96% of the world combined. 


In 1831, Alexis de Tocqueville of France came to America, travelled the country, and in his famous book, “Democracy in America” reported, “The position of the Americans is therefore quite exceptional, and it may be believed that no democratic people will ever be placed in a similar one. This is the origin of the phrase ‘American Exceptionalism’ and affirms that America is unique because of the distinctive ideas on which we had been based, including inalienable rights, individualism, limited government, and the importance of religion and morality.” 

For more information about American Exceptionalism, go to wallbuilders.com.




Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Congressman Jim Jordan with us today. Congressman, good to have you back. Thank you, sir, for coming on. 




You bet, guys. Good to be with you. 


Conspiracy Theory?



Well, we usually see a lot of these types of things and two years ago, even I have said conspiracy theory. But, man, this is getting pretty ridiculous, the spying on Americans without a warrant. Is it true that they did this to over 3 million Americans? 




Well, that’s what we’ve heard. And we’ve always been nervous about this is whole pattern now we see with the weaponization of government. What’s happened at the Department of Justice, you can go back to last fall when we learned about the fact that they were targeting parents using the counterterrorism measures of the Patriot Act to go after moms and dads who are simply showing up at a school board meeting to speak up for their kids. 


So we’ve been very concerned about this. And frankly, we’ve had a number actually now more than over half a dozen whistleblowers come forward from the Justice Department to convey to us concerns they have about how things are being done over there. So, yeah, this is a real concern. And one of the things we’re committed to do is get to the bottom of this, get the facts out to the American people. 




Well, and with good cause, for good concern, I mean, we’ve seen the two tiered justice system of the last couple of years where depending on your political affiliation, color of your skin, whatever your background. Instead of blind justice and equal justice, you’re treated differently and the DOJ seems to be one of the worst perpetrators of that. 

Two-Tiered Justice System



Yeah. No, it’s supposed to be equal treatment under the law in this great country and that’s not what we have. Your name is, Clinton, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Zuckerman, you get a different deal than as regular Americans. And again, it’s supposed to be one standard, equal treatment under the law, everyone’s rights are respected. But that’s not how the Left operates. And we see it not just there. But I mean, think about we even now see it in the whole woke cancel culture mob out there who use big tech to come after us and censor us as well. 


I had our chief at that time the other day goes the Left makes up the lie, the media repeats it, big tech amplifies it. And then if you say the truth, they censor you for speaking the truth. And that’s sort of the environment we’re now in. And it’s unfortunate. The good news is I think a change is coming here in five months in the midterm elections. 




Yeah. The way you just described all that is spot on. When you’re in the minority like this and you’re trying to get information from the DOJ, is that impossible? Is it just hard? I mean, are you pretty much hands tied until a change in the leadership? 




Yeah, more of the latter. It’s somewhere between hard and impossible. We’ve seen countless dozens and dozens of letters. Go back to the school boards issue, think about this scenario. On September 29th, the National School Boards Association, a left wing political organization writes a letter to the Biden White House saying, treat moms and dads as terrorists. Five days later, October 4th, the Attorney General of the United States issued a memorandum to all U.S. attorneys around the country doing exactly what the left wing political groups asked this administration to do. 

FBI Tagging Parents

And then 16 days after that, on October 20th, you have the FBI sent an email saying create this threat tag, this designation, this label that’s put on parents who actually are being investigated by the FBI for showing up at a school board meeting. That all happens in 22 days. When have you ever seen the federal government move that fast? 


But the speed and intensity that they can muster when it when it comes to going after their political opponents and then that whole concept, frankly, we’re seeing it now with the January 6th committee, that’s all about getting their political opponents and their chief political opponent is President Trump. 


So, yeah, this is a dangerous road that the Left is heading down. And it’s why I think you’re seeing such concern from the American people. And you couple all that, Rick, with the bad intentional policy decisions they’re doing with the border, with inflation, with energy, with crime and foreign policy. That’s why, again, I think there’s a big change that’s going to happen in the midterm elections. 



Yeah. And of all of those things, I mean, weaponizing these agencies against political parties is, I mean, if not at the top of the list, should be just from the danger of what that means for shutting down the opposition. When you guys in, I don’t want us to be overconfident, but I mean a really good chance that you take the majority here in just a few months, what do you see after that in terms of investigations and that sort of thing? 

Can We Win?


Will we be aggressive? I know guys like you will. Do we have enough members like you to be aggressive come January and play hardball the way that the Left has played? Are we ready to scratch and claw in the trenches to win? 



I think so. And you’re right. We have to do it. Now, we as Republicans need to do it in a way that’s consistent with the Constitution. But there are a number of things that have to be investigated because the American people, we the people are entitled to the facts and the truth. 


For example, the Ways and Means Committee under Republican control should figure out how in the world did thousands of Americans tax returns become public? It’s not supposed to happen in America. How did it happen? That’s something that needs to be investigated so that it doesn’t happen again. 


We need to know about the origins of this COVID and all the statements that Dr. Fauci made that I think were not accurate, we need to look into that. That’s something the oversight committee should do. In the Judiciary Committee, I think we should look at the school board issue, which I talked about, certainly the border situation, certainly the issue of big tech censoring conservatives. So there’s a host of things that need to be examined: the exit from Afghanistan, the debacle that was that, so that needs to be examined as well. All those issues, I think the country deserves to hear the truth. 

Realistic Expectation



Before I let you go, Congressman, just a realistic expectation of what you would define as a win. If you and I are on the phone again a year from now or even two years from now, let’s say, what should we kind of hope for and have is expectation? Because, I mean, obviously, we want to pull the power away from Washington. It’s not just going back and forth, back and forth depending on who has control. But while the powers there and while we’re working on those other things, what would you say to us to it to expect as a win and a hope for with you guys in charge? 




Yeah, we passed good legislation through the House. If Republicans are in control, legislation that will empower parents when it comes to their kids’ education, legislation that’ll help bring down the price of energy, legislation that will actually secure our border, we pass those kind of bills. But again, it’ll be tough to get the 60 votes you need in the Senate. And of course, even if they get 60 votes there, Joe Biden probably won’t sign it. But we should pass it and show the American people here’s what we’ll do if in fact you keep us in power and elect President Trump, who I think is going to run in the 2024 presidential race. 


So we help frame up the 2024 race by passing good things, even though they won’t get through the Senate most likely. And if they do, President Biden wouldn’t sign them. And then we do those investigations I talked about where we show the American people, here’s really what the Biden administration has been up to, here’s how they’ve been abusing your rights, here’s how they’ve been wasting your tax dollars. 


We do those investigations. And that will also help frame and give context to the 2024 presidential race and then you have election for president. And that’s how American politics works. And our job is to help create the right context so that a Republican wins in 2024. I think that Republican is going to be President Trump. 




It takes time. I mean, we all want the overnight microwave solution, but it takes time. We got to stay in the fight for years to win these kind of big battles. I appreciate your vision and casting that vision for our listeners so that we can think long term and stay in the fight for that distance. It’s not going to happen overnight. Congressman Jim Jordan, God bless you, man. Appreciate you coming on today. Look forward to talking soon. 




Take care, Rick. Thanks. 




Stay with us, folks, we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 



Hey, guys, this is Tim Barton, I am interrupting the normal broadcast to bring you something pretty special. This summer, we are doing a special program for college aged students 18-25 year olds. And it’s something that is becoming more and more special based on where the climate is.


In the middle of a crazy culture, in the middle of a nation going in crazy directions and right now we’re seeing in academia where even Christian universities are promoting critical race theory, teaching the 1619 project, we want to do something to help equip young people the next generation, to know the truth, the truth of the Word of God, the truth of America, the truth of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the free market, we want to get into a lot of this. And this is something that if you are an 18-25 year old.

Or if you are a parent or grandparent, if you have an 18 or 25 year old, if you’re in church 18-25 year olds, this program is something that can be life-changing for them, you want them to be a part. Go to wallbuilders.com and look for the summer institute to be part of this program.

Holding Their Feet to the Fire


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us and thanks to Congressman Jim Jordan for taking some time to be with us today. David and Tim, of course, just like we were talking about before we talked to Congressman Jordan is this is a topic that not that many people are willing to call them out on and hold their feet to the fire. He’s clearly going to be pushing hard for this. 


It does sound like in the minority, it’s very difficult to get answers to the questions. But everybody seems to think Republicans are definitely going to get a majority in 2022. I’m not trying to celebrate before we get into the end zone here. But if they do, it sounds like that Congressman Jordan really thinks they will invest. This isn’t going to be one of those empty promises thing that they will be aggressive on these investigations. 




Yeah, they will be. The question’s going to be after they get aggressive on it, who’s going to carry the news? Who’s going to point out what they find? Because when you uncover this and bring it to light, somebody’s got to show what you’ve uncovered. And thus far, most of the media has not been willing to do that. And given the direction of Fox over the last six months to a year, they’re certainly not headed that direction. They’re headed away from it. 

A Decisive Majority

And so even though I think the Republicans will get a decisive, I mean, a landslide type of majority if things go as they are now, we’re still several months off, things could change, the tide could crest too soon. But I think given what we think is going to happen, there’s going to be a lot of stuff they’re going to investigate. And that goes to COVID and Fauci and all the things they haven’t been allowed to even talk about. And as Jim was talking about, even the weaponization of government,


I mean, he pointed out, how do you get an entire policy, a national policy put together against parents at school board minutes in only 22 days? It took you three and a half years to put together a stupid website for health care. But you can weaponize and get an entire Justice Department policy for parents at school board meetings in 22 days, really? Are you kidding? So I think they’re going to do a good job of really going after things, trying to get to the bottom of truth. And I think they’ll find truth. 


The biggest question I got is who’s going to tell people what the truth is once they find it? And will anybody in the media even care? And of course, there’s going to be Epic Times and Blaze and Newsmax and Victory News and groups like that. But I don’t even think Fox is on board anymore with some of the stuff. So hopefully, word will get out there and citizens will see what’s happened and that’ll make a difference even two years later in the presidential election, if they can get this stuff brought to the public attention they’re going to start working on after the election. 




Well, great reason for people to listen to WallBuilders Live and share WallBuilders Live, right. Help get this message. Everybody out there can be a piece of that news, a committee of correspondents, you can share with your friends and family. I get what you’re saying, David, you need the big boys to do it too. 


But that’s where we just, man, we’ve got to really encourage people to continue to make themselves the press. We’ve got to have freedom of the press by actually being the ones to be the force multipliers and get the news out there. So here at WallBuilders, we’re going to bring that stuff, we’re going to report it, we’re going to talk about it, but we really need help for people to share that with their friends and family. 

Changes Happening



And then guys, I’ll even add, I think one of the things that will be important and we’re guys like Jim Jordan are so significant to have on your team and on your side is there will be a lot of changes happening. A lot of people who are, right now when you’re looking at gas prices, when you’re looking at the potential for significant food shortages, when you start looking at what’s happening in the nation, it would not be surprising that when you get to the midterms, which dad, I agree I think they’re very well hugely inside could be coming. 


When you look at the special election that happened in Texas recently and Deep South Texas congressional seat and it went to a Republican and that’s the first time Republicans like ever held the seat, has been Democrat for 150+ years. And there certainly does seem to be the potential for a seismic shift coming. But with that being said, when shifts come, oftentimes what happens is people are looking at the current cultural, social climate issues. 


And a lot of times the things that people had done previously get swept under the rug where a guy like Jim Jordan is going to be so important is individuals that look and see the overreach of government and unconstitutional manners, they don’t forget the unconstitutional nature of what the government overreach was. 


And so even though for a lot of Americans, a lot of people, they might look back and go, man, guys, let’s just move on. If Trump’s coming back in 2024, let’s secure elections, let’s go forward. And there’s a lot of American people that might be tired of the conversation. And certainly, the media will help frame the debate in such a way to say, guys, come on, we don’t need to rehash these things. 

January 6 Committee

Because a January 6th committee is not going to be as favorable as the Democrats really wanted it to be, it would not surprise me they’re going to try to change the narrative and change the issue, especially if Republicans get back in charge that they don’t want to know the history and the origins of coronavirus. They don’t want to see some of the FBI having handlers at the January 6th or you know who open the doors. 


There’s a reason, I think, that a lot of the security footage has not been fully released. You’ve only seen a couple of cameras in a couple of angles. And certainly, some of those cameras and angles are showing people doing really dumb stuff. But that’s not all of the narrative and all that happened. Again, all that to say where I think a guy like Jim Jordan is so special is when Republicans do come to power, he won’t let the really unconstitutional actions of some of the Democrats over the last couple of years go unnoticed. And he will remember and say, guys, we need to go back and fix this so that it doesn’t come back to bite us again in the future. 

The Media’s Place

And that’s where I think even though some of the American people might be going, guys, let’s move on to something else, if we don’t uphold and defend the standard of the Constitution and recognize that we have to stop government’s overreach from unconstitutional measures, then it will just get worse and worse the time comes when the other side gets back in charge. 




The other thing that may be in our favor is by the end of the year, Elon Musk may have Twitter. And if that happens, you’re not going to see the cancelation of all the people who point out the stuff the Democrats don’t want you to hear. You’ll actually be able to have a sizable body of Americans that follow a number of leaders, including the Jim Jordan’s that they can actually get their message out even if the media doesn’t carry it. So having something a little more middle stream, like maybe Twitter is going to become under Elon Musk, that’s another thing that could really help seismically shift the popular opinion tide in America. 

Who Is The FBI Spying On? – With Congressman Jim Jordan



Alright, folks, we are out of time for today. Thanks for joining us on WallBuilders Live. Once again, visit that website, wallbuilderlive.com. You can make a one-time or monthly contribution there. You can get access to our archives. And you can also check out becoming a biblical citizenship coach or what we call a Constitution coach. We’ve got a lot of different versions of the course available to you, but we give it to you for free. 


How’s that for a good deal? Look, we’re going to equip you to be able to be the catalyst in your neighborhood, in your community, in your home, the catalyst for restoring biblical values and constitutional principles and we give it to you for free. The training if free, all of it. So check it out today at biblicalcitizens.com. That’s biblicalcitizens.com.  That course has Kirk Cameron, Charlie Kirk, David Barton, Tim Barton, Bob McEwen, I mean all these folks are in there and it’s a great way for you to learn a biblical perspective on how to be a good citizen right here in the United States of America. 

Sure appreciate you listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.