FEMA Origination:  Looters, Why Now But Not 50 Years Ago? The Story of Joseph, Natural Disasters, and the Entitlement Mindset Today:  Answering a question from a listener about the role of the federal government in disasters and what it should be. Learning about when FEMA came into existence and natural disasters that occurred before FEMA was around. Rabbi Daniel Lapin talks about the comparisons between the time of Joseph and natural disasters today. Also, how the entitlement mindset plays into how people respond today

Air Date: 10/16/2017

Guests: Rabbi Daniel Lapin, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

You”€™ve found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture, this is WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, all of it from a Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

That”€™s our three resources – what does the Bible say about it, what can history teach us about it, and what does the Constitution say about it?

We’re here with David Barton, he”€™s America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker, pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator, national speaker, and author.

You can find out more about us and the radio program at WallBuildersLive.com. You can also get archives of the program there as well – last few weeks of programs. And then at WallBuilders.com, a wealth of information and tools for your family, for your Sunday school, for your schools. Go get some of those videos and books and start educating and equipping yourself.  It will inspire you and you”€™ll begin to understand how important it is for each of us to do our part as citizens to preserve this for future generations.

Natural Disasters

Later in the program, Rabbi Daniel Lapin will be with us to help us with that Biblical perspective on our particular issue today. David and Tim, you know it’s in the aftermath of these tragedies like Hurricane Harvey and other things that you begin to see the character of a culture and you begin to look at what do they really believe and how do they respond to their fellow man. We’re seeing some really good things happen in — on the ground in — certainly in Texas in the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey we’re seeing that up close, but sometimes you see the bad as well.

David:

Yeah, and that always kind of comes out because that’s human nat — well, I can”€™t say it always comes out — the more secular your culture becomes, the more it comes out. The more religiously oriented your culture is, the more you have internal restraints placed on you by yourself where you control yourself, so the less internal restraints you have the more self-gratifying you become, the more selfish you become, the more you’re going to see the bad side come out.

Hurricane Harvey

And I don’t think that many people in the country would question that America certainly has become more secular in the last several decades. So it is thus, therefore, not surprising that even though with the Harvey disaster so much good came out.  We were down there, we had a program we talked about on the ground and how that people were just looking to help others. The good Samaritan was in effect everywhere you turned.

There was also looting going on and there were also those going and stealing and taking things at the time of others”€™ misfortune and that’s just part of human nature. Although it would not have been that way in some previous disasters – you might have had one or two, but you didn’t have the organized kind of stuff that was going on, or the gangs, or anything else.

So that is new and different, but that kind of goes to really the nature of our more secular culture right now. Even Christians becoming more secular-minded – not that they were part of the difficulty by any means, but it’s just that the whole culture is moving in a secular direction – including Christians – and therefore, it affects their moral behavior in other areas as well.

Question For Rabbi Lapin

And even talking about that, it’s kind of significant that we had a question come in from one of our listeners that said, “€œHey, with disasters like this, what’s the role of the government when the government gets involved – is that good or bad?”€ And they didn’t ask us for that, they said, “€œWhat does Rabbi Lapin think?”

Rick:

They actually wanted him back to answer this question for us, huh?

David:

That’s right.

Tim:

Which I can’t blame them for that because I want to know what he’s going to say, too.

Rick:

That makes sense.

Famine In Egypt

David:

Me too – he is the source of so much wisdom. And the question is really rooted in — well, you had the disaster in Egypt, you know, you had the famine there for seven years Biblically. And so over that seven-year period of time the government really got involved, Joseph got involved, and you know that.

So with the government getting involved is that what FEMA’s doing, is that the right thing?  Is that a good or bad thing for a nation when the government gets involved in disasters? And so that was the question asked and Rabbi Lapin, I think, is going to have a good answer for it —

Tim:

And it’s an interesting question too because this was part of how Egypt, more or less, took over the world. It was in this time of famine because people were coming, and they ran out of money, and so I’ll sell you my land. And so Egypt grows just at an incredible rate, gaining all of this land and gold, and people are selling themselves and family in slavery and just trying to survive.

Egypt Became A Powerhouse

Egypt becomes a major powerhouse in this moment. And so you do see that actually, yeah, when people turn to the government it did lead, in essence, to part of their slavery and destruction, etc., but I am very curious how Rabbi Lapin will answer this question.

Rick:

Rabbi Daniel Lapin, our special guest today. Stay with us – we’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.

Chasing American Legends

Rick:

If you ever wonder if it’s over for America.  Can we restore those constitutional principles that made our nation great? Then we want to encourage you.  We want to show you some evidence of how it can be done. We want to show you the evidence behind what made America great in the first place. And we want to have some fun while we’re doing it.

It’s called Chasing American Legends. It’s our special television program that follows the Green family around the nation investigating myths and legends about America.  And it’s amazing what we have found and what we’ve discovered. Dove Channel is now airing Chasing American Legends and we want you to check it out.

We’ve got a link today at WallBuildersLive.com so you can find out more about Chasing American Legends, airing now on the Dove Channel. We’re going to take you and march with the minutemen for the re-enactment of April 19th, 1775. That shot heard around the world. Take you to investigate the battles that George Washington was in.

All kinds of great episodes.  Check it out right now at DoveChannel.com.  Give our family a chance to inspire yours. We know we can give you some hope of the future of our nation. Check it out. Chasing American Legends at DoveChannel.com.

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live – thanks for staying with us today. Our good friend, Rabbi Daniel Lapin, with us once again. Rabbi, always good to have you, sir.

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

Thank you very much indeed. Great to be with you on WallBuilders.

Egypt”€™s Response To Famine

Rick:

Well, we find ourselves often saying, “€œI wonder what Rabbi Lapin thinks about this?”€  So when we get you on, we get a chance to rapid fire a lot of questions at you. But there’s so much that’s happened in the last few weeks and months and one of the questions we got from our audience had to do with in the wake of the hurricanes, the role of government

They went back and said, “€œOkay, look, we had the seven-year famine in Egypt and government was obviously very involved there, but did that lead to the enslavement of the people?” And just — they actually asked, “€œWhat is Rabbi Lapin”€™s take on this?”

So Rabbi Lapin, what is your take on this?

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

Well, first of all, the people who are enslaved were the Hebrews, not the Egyptians themselves, and so we mustn’t confuse the two things.

Rick:

Right.

The Bigger The Government, The Less Room For The Individual

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

There’s no question about it that the bigger you make government, the less room there is for the individual. And so when we calmly assign new duties to the federal government, and we grant new powers, and we extend federal government control in all of those cases, what we really are doing is diminishing the space available for a free, independent, American citizen. We’ve got to realize that there’s a downside to everything.

When people have unfortunately become accustomed to saying, “€œWell, the government ought to do something about that.”€  Every time you say that you are actually reducing the domain of the free American.

FEMA Origination

So the idea that we turn to government to solve the problems of huge natural disasters is, today, a very natural response and it’s a well-established angle already. We have FEMA which is a — yet a new government department created to respond to people’s notion that, “€œWell, there’s a national disaster, the government ought to do something about it.”

I think there are very real Constitutional questions of whether the government indeed ought to do something about it. And I think what we saw with Louisiana a few years ago was that, essentially, Louisiana – the state did almost nothing, depending almost entirely on the federal government – not a good state of affairs. Certainly, not what the Founders had in mind.

Rick:

Yeah.

Joseph LOWERED The Tax

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

So, I mean, I think those are major concerns. The interesting thing about the Biblical story of Egypt, of course, is that — a lot of people aren’t aware of this — but if you don’t have access to ancient Jewish wisdom, you might still be aware that Joseph didn’t raise the tax to 20 percent, he lowered it to 20 percent.

Rick:

Really.

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

If you just think about it — Yes, I mean, what gives you the notion that an all-powerful Pharaoh would limit his taxing authority to only 20 percent? Even the United States government doesn’t do that.

Rick:

Right. That’s right.

Lowering The Tax Rate Incentivized Productivity

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

I mean the government goes — and not surprisingly–  the Pharaoh”€™s tax rate was very high indeed. We don’t know exactly, but it was certainly more than 50 percent, and so Joseph lowered it knowing that a reduced tax rate would spur extraordinary creativity and incentivize people to really become productive. And that was why there was such a vast mountain of productivity that the Bible reports at that point. And then, of course, yes, Pharaoh, under Joseph’s direction, did sell food back to the people and Pharaoh”€™s treasury grew and grew.  Joseph served the Pharaoh very, very, diligently and very faithfully – no question about it. But the people did survive, they did survive the famine, which is, I think, the key thing.

Rick:

Yeah.

FEMA Is Relatively New

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

But in general, I think your reader”€™s question – is this a warning we should heed in regards to how we view FEMA”€™s assistance with hurricanes and other disasters?

Sure it is. You know FEMA hasn’t always existed. The Federal Emergency Management Organization is relatively recent and it’s yet one more government organization that taxes have to fund, and employees, who subsequently become Democrat, Democratic Party loyalists, and yeah, there is a downside to this. No question about it.

Rick:

Let me ask you about the whole looting issue and kind of the culture change and the attitude of people has — it hasn’t always been that way, that you have a disaster like that you’re just going to get a lot of looting and a lot of crime.

Looting

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

No, of course not. And the situation is deteriorating most significantly. You know why, most significantly, because of people’s reactions. What’s so dreadful are the number of people who make excuses for looters – and we’re not talking about people carrying off water and bread – we’re talking about people carrying of flat-screen TVs and clothing. And people make excuses.

In fact, there were even news organizations that were subsequently proved to have failed to air footage of the looters. You know why because they didn’t want to inflame racial stereotyping. And look it’s all very, very, sad. No, this is not the way it’s always been.

ZERO Looting In NYC in 1965

I wrote a piece recently in which I compared the power outage — there was a huge power outage in the Northeast in 1965 which left New York in the dark and there was no looting at all. And yet only 12 years later, in the next big power outage, there was an enormous amount of New York looting and what happened between 65 and 77 was essentially the growth of the federal government. And the idea that the government, basically, is responsible for you. We are all inert and passive victims and it’s up to the government to take care of us.

This victim mentality, unfortunately, stimulates a tremendous dishonesty because you start feeling, “€œI’m entitled to things.” One of the horrible things that President Barack Obama did for the United States of America was increase the number of people who felt themselves to be victims.

Victim Mentality

I think we saw the result of this during the recent looting in Houston where more and more people, huge numbers of people, felt entitled to take things because, after all, they are victims.  And everyone else is responsible for the predicaments in which they find themselves. What they don’t realize is, everybody’s life is tough, everyone’s life is challenging, and that, truth be told, everybody would like to wake up in the morning knowing that your status is not your own fault, but it’s the fault of somebody else. You are a passive victim.  It’s somebody else’s fault that you are not the way you’d like to be.

Rick:

So it created a mindset, really, this entitlement mindset and so then, when you have the opportunity, you take everything you can get because you feel entitled to it.  You’re making things right because you’ve been cheated supposedly or been wronged.

Distorted Moral System

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

Yes. Yes indeed, so your moral system becomes distorted and you view it as moral for your victim status to be restored, to be repaired, and for balance to be restored. And for that to happen, other people need to lose their things because you are the one who is a victim. You need to be made whole again and so if that’s required —

Rick:

Now that makes a lot of sense because of the — you see that almost self-righteous attitude of, “€œI’m doing this to make things right.” What you just described makes a lot of sense. I’ve always wondered how — used to there was shame, if you were stealing, there would be shame. But it — not with these folks, man, it’s more of a —

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

I mean, look we’re reaping. We are reaping the whirlwind of secularism that was unleashed on America —

Rick:

Yeah.

Tidal Wave of Secularism Steamrolling Society

Rabbi Daniel Lapin

— starting in the 60s. And today it has become, literally, a tidal wave of secularism steamrolling society. We”€™re at the point now of young males who have grown up, literally, without ever hearing the phrase, “€œThou shalt not.”

Rick:

Steal.

Rabbi Daniel Lapin

Anything, yes.

Rick:

Or any — “€œThou shalt not”€ anything.  No, you’re right —

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

Yes.

Rick:

It’s any —  you do whatever you want. I get what you’re saying now – “€œThou shalt not”€ even any concept of anything being off the table because it’s all relative and you do what feels good.

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

Exactly. Exactly. And so we should be able to say, “€œOkay, we’ve tried a 50-year experiment imposing secularism on America – you know what, it’s not been good.”

Make Good Fashionable Again

Rick:

Right. Right. Yes, well hopefully the bad results we’re living with will wake enough people up to say, “€œLet’s turn the tide back.  Let’s do William Wilberforce, this thing about “€˜making good fashionable again.”€™”

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

Exactly.

Rick:

Sometimes enough pain will shake people from their slumber and get them to realize the need to do that.

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Rick:

Well, Rabbi Lapin, can’t thank you enough for your time and certainly want to —

Rabbi Daniel Lapin:

Great to be together with you again. It really is. And please give my warmest wishes, not only to our huge, wonderful, audience but also to all the folks at your office and headquarters and I appreciate the chance of being with you.

Rick:

Well, we enjoyed having you – thank you. That’s Rabbi Daniel Lapin – we’ll have links today to that article he was talking about on the looters in Houston.  Also to his website – fantastic material. Strongly encourage you to check out all of that available there as well. We’ll be right back. David and Tim Barton when we return.

Avalon Project

Tim:

Hey, guys, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders. I know you hear my dad and Rick talk a lot about our Founding Fathers about the original intent of our nation, a constitutional heritage that we have. And really we’ve seen how far we slipped away from that. And I know a lot of us as we hear my dad and Rick talk think, “€œI wish there was a place that I could go where I could see these documents and I could read and learn about the Founding Fathers firsthand.  See the things they did.”€  

I want to give you some websites today that can help you accomplish that very thing. If you get online you can go to places like Library of Congress and you can look under their century of lawmaking or historical documents. You can go to the Avalon Project, to the Founders Constitution, Google Books, or even the internet archives.  

Or you can just go to WallBuilders.com. We have a section for our WallBuilders Library. And under that section, we have different subgroups for historical documents, historical writings, even a place where you can get helpful links to find out more information about other websites.  Where you can do research for yourself and find the truth for yourself. Friends, this is the time that we need to know who we are and where we came from. WallBuilders.com is a great place to go.

YouNeedaRabbi.com

Rick:

Well, thanks for staying with us, special thanks to Rabbi Daniel Lapin for joining us as well. We’ll have links today to his website, which, by the way, is YouNeedaRabbi.com.

I remember — we’re back with David and Tim, by the way. David, I remember that’s how you first introduced me to Rabbi Lapin was YouNeedaRabbi.com.  You said, “€œRick, you need a rabbi – go get some of this stuff.” So, love Rabbi Lapin and appreciate him coming on.

David:

Great stuff. I listening to what he said about FEMA and FEMA getting involved. And so I started thinking, when did FEMA come into existence – anybody know?

Rick:

Wow. No, I have no idea.

Tim:

I would guess much more recently.

FEMA Started In 1978

David:

1978 – it”€™s a Jimmy Carter program.

Tim:

Yes.

David:

So, Jimmy Carter brings FEMA into existence. So FEMA is out there to help with natural disasters. Then here was my next question.  Okay, if FEMA is a new thing and, as he was talking, we rely — people and their attitudes — they rely on FEMA now. FEMA”€™s got to come in and, you know, in Katrina, the state did nearly nothing and FEMA was tasked with virtually everything.

So here’s the next question.  How did we handle natural disasters prior to 1978?  When you had a massive disaster, how”€™d you handle it? Because —

Rick:

Well, there weren’t any, right, because I mean if we didn’t have —

David:

Now, that was my next question – is — What were they? So I went and looked up natural disasters prior to 1978 and all this, you know, listening to Rabbi Lapin. So just, can you name any disasters prior to 1978 that are major disasters?

Natural Disasters Prior to 1978

Rick:

Well, what was that big one in Texas that wiped out was it Galveston?

David:

Galveston – the 1900 —

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

It was a tropical cyclone that hit Galveston. Do you know the loss of life?

Rick:

It was, I mean, it literally wiped it out. It —

Tim:

I would think —

Rick:

Devastating.

Tim:

Yeah, I mean, relatively it has to be low though just population wouldn’t — I mean obviously, it wasn”€™t what it is today.

David

12,000 deaths.

Tim:

Wow.

David:

It is the greatest fatality –  net deadliest natural disaster in North American history. Go for — what other disasters? Or you want me to just give you a list?

Tim:

Well, we’ve pretty much named the ones we know.

Rick:

That”€™s terrible, I know, but —

David:

The San Francisco earthquake of 1906 – 3,000 lives. 1928 in Florida, a tropical cyclone took 2,800 lives. Of course, there was the attack on Pearl Harbor, not a natural disaster. 1889 the Johnstown flood in Pennsylvania when the dam broke – that was 2,200 lives taken at that point. 1893 you had the hurricane, a tropical hurricane, 2,000 died there.

I’m just going down this list and looking at all of these disasters, it’s just amazing what’s there. 1871 fire and it’s in the upper peninsula of Michigan – killed about 2,500 folks. It’s just — how did we deal with disasters before we had the federal government?

Rick:

Right. And you’re mentioning the deaths, I mean, I’m sure, especially in those storms, there was still the same level of devastation in terms of houses flooded and lots of buildings–

David:

I”€™d say like Tim said, it”€™s worse than that because there’s no signal after Galveston after 1900.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

It’s wiped out.

So it’s not —

Rick:

So who dealt with it if FEMA wasn”€™t around?

Galveston Was Destroyed

Tim:

Well, and that’s also, you know, the destruction of Galveston is what led to a lot of that commerce going to Houston after so many of those storms that had destroyed Galveston, which was also interesting, just the history of Galveston. But even looking at the destruction that would have occurred, everything was built by hand, generally, right, we probably were still in the log era of building houses. So whether you”€™re using 2×4″€™s, or planks, or whatever it is you’re using, you’re having to rebuild everything. And so that’s a great question.

David:

And it”€™s the thing, too, where Galveston wasn’t a particularly young city. I mean, it’d been there for a while on the coast and just never been hit like that before. But I think the answer to all this how we did it was in what Rabbi Lapin said. I wrote it down – he said, “€œThe bigger you make government, the less room there is for the individual.”

And all those disasters back then were neighbors helping neighbors —

Neighbor Helping Neighbor

Tim:

Yeah.

David:

Friends helping friends, friends helping those they didn’t know, it was individuals stepping in and taking care of everybody else.

Tim:

Which was one of the really cool things we saw, one of the outcomes of Harvey, was how many just normal individuals stepped in and said, “€œHey, let’s help – we want to help people.”

And that’s why it was so encouraging that at Harvey, you could not tell what political party anybody was a part of. You couldn’t tell what racial distinction and class was happening with anybody. You just saw an individual and said, “€œI want to help that person.” And it was amazing to see, it was just — where humanity showed its best, we said, “€œLet’s just be people helping people.”

Rick:

Yeah.

Tim:

And ultimately, that’s what made such a difference in this Harvey disaster was, as you were mentioning, is just neighbors helping people.

David:

Yeah. And that goes to the same point he made that, and I remember it, but I didn’t remember what he said about it, but the 1965 New York City blackout – no looting at all. Twelve years later – big time looting. What’s the difference? The growth of the federal government over that period time took individuals out of it.

Rick:

And changed attitudes.

Victim Mentality Breeds Entitlement

David:

It changed attitudes. And then started talking about that victim mentality because you feel like you’re entitled to something, and if you don’t get what I think I’m entitled to then I’m a victim, and so I’m going to go take it from somebody else. Man, that’s another bad fruit of the growth the federal government is you feel entitled to all these things.  

It’s just the more he was saying going through that, the more it started putting a lot of things together that we’ve seen historically with — from how we handled natural disasters to even the difference in 12 years in New York City. That’s big stuff. I mean —

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

That is big changes is going on. And I got to thinking, alright, this victim mentality where you become a victim and you’re entitled to something. You know, Tim and I just recently got back from Poland. And if anybody has a right to a victim mentality it is Poles because of what the Germans did to them because the Germans considered them an inferior race.  

They were just one rung higher than Jews were.  What the Germans did to exterminate poles, what the Germans did to put them in slavery.

Racial Discrimination

And then I thought, well, Lapin is a Jew. I mean, nobody’s been a victim more than the Jews have been. And yet with Poles and with Jews, you don’t find that entitlement mentality because they’re not reliant on government. They don’t feel like they’re entitled. And so I was thinking, there are two groups that have really severe racial discrimination, they’ve been the victims, but they don’t have a victim mentality.

As opposed to so many groups today that even they haven’t had it bad.  But two centuries ago their ancestors had it bad and so they’re still feeling like victims today. That’s all the mentality kind of thing – that’s not a reality kind of thing. And so how Jews and Poles have dealt with it without the federal government telling them they’re victims and that you’re entitled to this stuff, man, what a difference that makes in the mentality of any people, anywhere, at any point in time.

The Past Doesn”€™t Have To Equal The Future

Rick:

Yeah, I guess we tend to take the path of least resistance.  So if we’re taught that it’s easier, and we can blame somebody else.  That’s a whole lot easier path of least resistance rather than hard work and saying, “€œThe past, what happened to my ancestors, does not have to happen to me.”

And you know that we can turn this thing around. It’s going to take hard work reaching across the aisle, reaching across the street to the neighbor, and doing those things.

It is harder, but if you put in front of people that path of least resistance, they’re going to take it – that’s the nature of man. And so it’s created this attitude of, “€œWell, I’ll just rely on the federal government. I am entitled to all these different things.”

How do you turn it though?  How do we reverse that trend?

Reverse The Trend

Tim:

I think it’s something that, certainly we have to start with ourselves, and looking and saying, “€œWhat can we do – what difference can we make?” Because it is — so often we look for broad sweeping approaches when it has to start with the individual, it has to start with us.

Rick:

That’s right.

Tim:

And once we start with us, so often the only thing it takes for a movement to get started is leadership.  If there are leaders who step up and say, “€œHey, let’s do this,”€  it can totally change the direction of what culture does and how people respond and embrace.

Actually, guys, before we get out and have to finish for the day let me just point out one of the things that Rabbi Lapin said, too, that I thought was amazing, is that Joseph actually lowered the tax rate.

Rick:

Oh, yeah.

FEMA, Lower Tax Rate, What Difference Can We Make?

Tim:

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read that story and watched the movies and these cartoons – I’ve never seen, or noticed, or thought about the fact he was actually lowering the tax rate.  But it makes total sense.

I mean, why would the Pharoah have a low tax rate for all these people? But again, I’m just blown away when we talk to Rabbi Lapin, the things I learned about the Bible, what I thought I knew, and realized there’s still so much I don’t know.

Rick:

Special thanks to Rabbi Daniel Lapin for joining us today. Most of all, thank you, for joining us and listening to us live today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.