Fighting For The American People Against Tyranny -With Mat Staver – Fighting for the American People, Mat Staver joins us today from Liberty Counsel. Tens of thousands of people are being fired and dishonorably discharged for refusing the COVID shot. How can you help? Tune in to hear this important update.

Air Date: 10/25/2021

Guest: Mat Staver

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.



Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live. We are taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. You can join us not only in today’s program but also at our website You can grab programs from the previous few weeks if you missed any of those.

And that’s also the place that you can make a donation. And when you make that donation, you are coming alongside us, you’re locking shields with us, you’re helping us to reach more people. That investment in freedom allows us to train more pastors, more legislators, more young people. It allows us to get on more stations and spread that truth, put more people through our biblical citizenship courses, all of those things, thanks to your support at So make that one-time or monthly contribution today. We greatly appreciate it.

My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. And normally I’m here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders, and also Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. But today, we’re going to spend our entire program with Mat Staver.

Mat is the founder and president of Liberty Counsel. That website, by the way, is where you will be able to keep up on a ton of these lawsuits across the country dealing with the COVID crackdowns with the unconstitutional mandates, with the unbelievable, unconscionable firing of police officers, military member, I mean, all the things that are happening right now due to this COVID chaos. If you go to, you can follow their lawsuits. You can also contribute there to help fund those lawsuits and help defend all these good people that are having their lives absolutely turned upside down.

But Mat’s going to give us an update when we come back in a few minutes after the break/ I just want to encourage you to hit the website today and become a force multiplier. Share our programs with your friends and family. Spread that news out there. You know, things are moving so fast right now. There’s so many things happening both in the military, in our political battles, at our local school boards, in our churches.

And I know sometimes you probably feel like it’s just too much, there’s just too much going on. How do I keep up? Well, WallBuilders Live is really a great place for you on a daily basis, in just 30 minutes, to be caught up on what’s happening out there with the right perspective. And I stress that because if you just watch the news generally, you’re probably going to get depressed, honestly. I mean, if you just look at this moment in time, you’re going to think, oh, man, it’s all over. No. What we want to do is we want to take the news of the day and the hot issues of the day and we want to put that in the context of history so that we are reminded there’s nothing new under the sun, and we can learn from other times in history where similar things happen.

We also want to obviously look at the Bible and say, what does the Bible say about these things that are happening? That’s where we get all the answers. That’s God’s instruction manual for us. So every issue that we’re dealing with, we should say, what does the Bible say about this? What is the proper role of government biblically? What does the Bible say the government should do versus what the family should do versus what the church should do versus what we should do as individuals? Anyway, that’s what we do.

We look at that biblical perspective, we look at that historical perspective, and then, of course, as citizens in the United States of America, we should look at a constitutional perspective. How does this work in our system, in our particular form of government, in our particular constitutional republic? That’s what WallBuilders Live is all about. And so when you listen to this on a daily basis, you get that biblical, historical, constitutional perspective on whatever the hot issue of the day is, and then you share it. Share it with your friends and family. You can do that at, grab those links, send them out to your friends and family, and become that force multiplier.

Another way you can be a force multiplier is to join our biblical citizenship classes. These things have taken off all over the nation, thousands of classes taking place in homes and churches and just everywhere. It’s so exciting to see. I get to read the testimonials everyday, people talking about how going to that class gave them hope. They realized I’m not alone. There are other people that care about a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. There are answers to everything that we’re facing. These classes give people hope. They give you the chance to sharpen your countenance as iron sharpens iron by having those conversations. And then the videos are just so powerful with Kirk Cameron and David Barton and Tim Barton and Mat Staver and Rabbi Daniel Lapin and Congressman Barry Loudermilk, and all of these folks. It’s such a great way to learn that biblical perspective and that constitutional perspective.

So get involved in one of our biblical citizenship classes. You can either join us on Monday nights or you can start your own class. I mean, there’s so many different ways to get involved. is the website. Alright, Mat Staver is the special guest today. is the website. Going to take a quick break, we’ll be right back with Mat Staver from Liberty Counsel.


This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. In the early 1700s, the Reverend John Wise preached that all men were created equal, that taxation without representation was tyranny, and that God’s preferred form of government was the consent of the governed: all of which is language recognizable on the Declaration of Independence. Why?

Because in 1772, the Sons of Liberty led by founders such as Sam Adams and John Hancock, reprinted and distributed the Reverend Wise’s sermons. So four years later, much of the declaration reflected the language of those sermons by John Wise. In 1926, on the 150th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, President Calvin Coolidge affirmed “The thoughts in the declaration can very largely be traced back to what John Wise was saying.”

Few today know that the Declaration was so strongly influenced by the Reverend John Wise. For more information on this and other stories, go to


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. Always good to have Mat Staver from Liberty Counsel with us. Folks, go to the website today. You see the chaos across the country. Contribute to, they are representing so many people across the country. Mat, thanks for your time. And I know you guys are running crazy. You’ve had tens of thousands, tens of thousands of people asking for help. I don’t know how you’re getting any sleep right now. But thanks for coming on today.


Well, thanks, Rick. I mean, we’ve never seen anything like this in our history: tens and tens of thousands of people. And of those people, like for example, one group that makes up the small number just, some of the representatives. Those represent 19,000, and those are the freedom flyer group that we’re working with, and they have 19,000 airline employees across all the transportation sectors, airlines ground, and other rail transportation as well. So it’s a massive, massive number.


You’ve got so many different cases going. You also got the main case that’s going to be headed back to the Supreme Court in the next few days and weeks. You’ve got military members. It’s just unbelievable to me, the people that are being kicked to the curb over this after all their years of service, the very people we need right now, health care workers, you name it, so there’s no logic to it, of course. And that’s kind of my first question. In all these different cases, as you get in front of these judges, are we getting any common sense and logic back into this debate? The last two years has been void of those things. Is anybody waking up yet?


Well, some of them are. In fact, we’re litigating in New York. There’s a statewide injunction now in New York on behalf of the healthcare workers. The same identical executive order was issued by Governor Janet Mills in Maine and the court denied that injunction. So now we are back at the Supreme Court. And Justice Breyer who’s over that particular circuit, the first circuit, has already referred and ordered the state of Maine to respond to our petition. And that’s a good sign because it looks like it’s going to be referred to the full panel of justices. So we may get some rulings sometime middle or no later than next week toward the end of the week. But there’s tens and tens of thousands of people. The numbers are massive. And people are being abused like I’ve never seen them abused before.


I really want encourage people to get on your email list., when I do get your emails, it keeps me up to date on what’s happening with these cases, honestly, it breaks my heart sometimes too, because the stories are heart-wrenching. I mean, these people, their lives have been turned upside down. When I say kicked to the curb, I mean, they’re getting fired with no one employment. Mat, I have a little historic hotel, we had to fire an employee for stealing from us, and we couldn’t keep them from getting unemployment. They stole from us, and they got unemployment. These are good people we’re talking about in these lawsuits that did nothing wrong and they’re not even getting unemployment. They’re literally being turned out on the streets.


Yeah, they’re being told that they have to voluntarily resign. Some of them are resisting that. And so, if they voluntarily resign, is going to be harder for them to collect unemployment, depends upon what state they’re in. But it’s just unbelievable, because the health care workers as an example, they worked through the pandemic, and they’ve actually treated people and they’re treating people now that have been injured or even died from these COVID shots. And they’re being told now inject the same thing into your body. And they say, no, I’ve got religious objections to it.

The class-action lawsuit we filed last Friday is now being fast-tracked, is on behalf of all branches of the military, federal employers, and federal civil contractors. Doesn’t matter what rank, what tours of duty, what sacrifice, how long you’ve been in the military; if you’re not getting the jab, you’re being threatened with this honorable discharge. It is the worst betrayal that you can imagine.


Unbelievable. And this one that you’re talking about, now I read something about this one, is this all directly from the Pentagon itself and other civil contractors involved as well, or just across the board? It’s just anybody that needed to go directly for an exemption within the military?


Well, Biden directed his Department of Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin issued the mandate on the military. That was August 24th. So that’s all five branches of the military. So we’ve been battling that since then and we have thousands of military clients. But we have a stellar group that’s a representative of the entire class of all the branches of the military.

We have, in fact, the short title of it, Rick, is “Navy SEAL 1 versus Biden” because we have more than one Navy SEAL in our lawsuit. But we have people from all ranks and all branches of the military. Then on September 9th, Biden said, well, all the federal employees, and the federal civil contractors, they all have to get the shot as well by November 22.

Well, the problem is that if you back that up, when they say get the shot, be fully vaccinated is what they say. You have to back it up two weeks before that because they say you’re not fully vaccinated unless you do it two weeks before the deadline. So that means Pfizer and Madonna, the first shot, the deadlines already passed, that’s October 18th. And then the last shot and the single-shot for Johnson & Johnson has November 8th. So people are already being disciplined. Some of them are months away from retirement, they’re being terminated. And people right now are already been threatened in the military with solitary confinement and dishonorable discharge.


It’s creating chaos, and at some point, somebody’s got to say, okay, when does this become a readiness issue? You’ve got some of the Navy SEALs, we’ve talked to others that have Navy SEALs or something like 10% of the entire Navy SEAL force is going to be declared unemployable and just multiply that out to all the other branches of the military, and we’ve got a real readiness problem here. And this doesn’t even put it in context of this is all for a virus that’s 99 point, depending on the study 7, 8, 9% survivable, all the treatments that are out there, all the reasons we should not be so fearful of this thing, and yet, I mean, chaos in the military, chaos in the economy, chaos in our government.


Absolutely, yeah. And in the military, for example, in early June, Dr. Matthew Auster on Biden’s COVID-19 taskforce came out, and he was repeating what was in a study that was just about to be published. And that study found that those who were “voluntarily” this was before the mandate, some people were still being pressured, taking these shots in the military, they were having, particularly males under 30, they were getting Myocarditis, serious heart inflammation could cause death.

Then on June 29, the Journal of American Medical Association Cardiology published a research article by doctors who did research in the military, and that’s where it was based on. He said these shots are hurting our men in the military, causing them to have Myocarditis, serious and life-threatening heart condition. Then they knew that. So they went forward anyway and mandated it on everybody. It’s unbelievable.

They’re trying to purge the military, and purge the federal government of workers and purge all of those civil contractors that make everything that makes the government operate. So it’s not the government that creates F-35 stealth fighter jet, it’s not the government that creates the shoes for men and women of the military; it’s civil contractors contracted, and they’re wanting to wipe them out, including top notch nuclear scientists, because they’re not getting the shot.


It’s just insanity. Alright. But there are things we can do about it, folks, there are action steps you can take. One of those is to go to today, make a contribution, get on the email list. There’s so much happening and it’s hard to keep up with all of it. There’s so many lawsuits. There’s so many just insane actions by government. And all of this is caused by government. It’s not caused by the virus. It’s caused by the crazy actions of government in response to the virus.

I mean, it has to be political. It’s definitely not scientific. I mean, we’re creating all this chaos in our country and yet you look over at Denmark and Sweden and Norway and they’re saying no more restriction… I mean, they’re back to normal. And when you see that, and then you look at what we’re doing, it’s like, where is the logic part of the brain, when is it going to kick in here? I think you use the right word. They’re using this to purge. They found something that separates people that think for themselves and those that will just follow whatever the government says, and they’re using it to literally purge, like you said, military, government, all of it.


People that think for themselves. People that have a different worldview. And particularly religious people, especially Christians, purging them from the military, purging them from all the other places, whether it’s health care, whether it’s any other place of employment. I mean, this is abusive. We have people calling, weeping, whether it’s a soldier that’s done several tours of duty in the Middle East, calling and weeping.

We have a man calling, a different employee, a different kind of sector of employment called and began to weep on the phone because he’s threatened to lose his job unless he gets the shot. And he’s the sole breadwinner, and his wife depends upon the medical insurance that he’s able to provide to treat her cancer. What’s it going to do now for his wife? But he can’t violate his religious conscience and sin against God by taking one of these shots, which is these people are very well-researched. They’re not ignorant. They’ve made a decision. And they also have very strong religious convictions.


Multiply that by tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of those situations across the country, police officers, in some cities 40-50% of the force going to be kicked off because of this situation. Firefighters, you know, man, I’ve yet to think that if my kids were in the house, and the house was on fire I’m not going to stop the firefighter at the door and say, show me your COVID passport.


Yeah, show me your vaccine passport, and the same thing with the airlines. We’ve heard these from captains and flight attendants, that the distractions cause stress or the stress cause distractions, and the distractions caused the incidence of flight safety issues to increase. Now the union’s have come out a couple of actually organizations that monitor these incidents in these reports from pilots as an example, a couple of airlines, they say, yes, the distractions are increasing. So now they just sent out a directive this week, a couple of the airlines to their employees, don’t bring the issue of the vaccine into the cockpit.

Well, look, we’re getting calls from pilots who have worked for these airlines for 20-25 years, and they’re being threatened with termination. And don’t bring it into the cockpit. Don’t blame the pilots. Don’t blame the flight attendants. Don’t blame the wrappers. You’re the one who did this. If you want to stop the distraction, if you really want to protect your crew, and your passengers, stop these insane mandates.


I have so many questions for you, Mat, but I know you’ve got to go here in a second. And folks,, it may be the most important contribution that you make this year. They are on the frontlines of all of these fights. These legal battles are happening all over the nation. Please go to today, contribute. You’re listening all this chaos happening, and you’re saying what can I do, what can I do? This is what you can do because Mat’s on the frontlines fighting it, you can help supply him, you can help him, and he and all the other attorneys at

So, get on the email list, make a contribution today. Mat, on just the constitutionality of this thing, when the CEO of Southwest Airlines came out and said, I have to do this because of the President’s order, there’s no order, it’s a speech. It’s like a tin pot dictator coming out on the balcony and saying, here’s what we’re going to do and all of a sudden, that’s law. The words of a senile president in his speech are now the law of the land and the titans of industry are just bowing to this. I mean, that…


Well, on that point, you’re right, I mean, there is no order. So a lot of these, either they’re misguided or they’re just doing it as an excuse and say, well, there’s an order. Well, there’s a statement, and then there’s supposed to be a regulation that’s coming up, But it hasn’t come out yet. So it’s not binding. But it’s happening all over the place because people think it is body.

Take, for example, count one in our suit, it will free up not only everyone in our suit, but everyone in the country. It’s on the Emergency Use Authorization. Listen. There is no FDA authorized COVID shot available in the United States, period. Comirnaty made by BioNTech is not available, and it won’t be available for months and months. And that’s according to the FDA, and the NIH, is not available.

So the only ones we have our Emergency Use Authorization, Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson. And that federal law is very clear. You cannot be forced to take these experimental injections. It says that individuals have the “option to accept or refuse” the product. And that means whether it’s the military, the government, or the private sector. All of these mandates are violating federal law.


And then under that emergency authorization statute, they’re supposed to give you the benefits, the cost, the other treatments that are available, all that and none of that information being provided to people.


None of that. All the risk and all the harms, and it would scare people to death if they heard all that. There would be no way they’d want to take this. But they’re not giving them any informed information and they’re forcing them without their consent. All that’s unlawful.


Yeah. Last thing I’ll ask you real quick on the religious exemption, how are those holding up? It seems like I read us maybe it was a Sixth Circuit had upheld some athletes and their religious exemption. Do you think that could carry over to other areas as well? Or are they just saying no to all the religious exemptions?


Well, that was regarding a state, Western Michigan University, and then we also got the first injunction against an osteopathic school down in Louisiana. So we’ve been very successful in that. But in the private sector, for example, with regards to employees, you have Title VII. And that’s the problem with what’s happening in Maine, New York. That’s why the court issued an injunction in New York, and the court should have issued an injunction in Maine.

But that’s why it’s now before the US Supreme Court. Because the governor there said, all these health care workers have to get the COVID shots, and there’s no religious exemptions. Well, wait a minute. They’re all governed by Title VII, they’re workers, right? Title VII protects against religious discrimination. Title VII allows you to ask for a religious accommodation like this. And so Title VII can’t just simply be put aside by a governor’s executive order. It’s preemptive of the governor’s orders. So that’s one of the issues. People in the place of employment have a very strong protection under Title VII.


Mat, God bless you, man. For such a time as this, I mean, all these years of your cases, being a dean of a law school, all the things that you’ve done in your life, I just can’t help but think God took you through all of that to prepare you for this moment. I mean, our nation is at the precipice and these legal fights are critical to preserve freedom. Lives are at stake. This is huge. I’m just so thankful for you and the way God’s using you and Liberty Counsel and the rest of your team. I mean, you guys are amazing.

So just keep up the great work. Know that we’re praying for you. I pray for your health. I pray for your sleep, and just your wisdom and your wit. And God, we just lift Mat up to your right now and the entire team at Liberty Counsel, and just pray that you come alongside them, that you provide the funds, that you provide the health and the rest and the favor with all the judges. And just thank you for using Mat in the way that you are. Mat, God bless you, brother. Keep up the great work. is the place to go, look forward to having you back soon.


Thanks, Rick, good to be with you. And thanks for your prayers.


Absolutely, man. Hey, folks,, contribution, and get on the email list. So two things you can do today., contribution and get on the email list. We’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.


Hey, guys, we want to let you know about a new resource we have here at WallBuilders called The American Story. For years, people have been asking us to do a history book, and we finally done it. We start with Christopher Columbus and go roughly through Abraham Lincoln. And one of the things that so often we hear today are about the imperfections of America, or how so many people in America that used to be celebrated or honored really aren’t good or honorable people.

One of the things we acknowledge quickly in the book is that the entire world is full of people who are sinful and need a savior because the Bible even tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And yet what we see through history, and certainly is evident in America is how a perfect God uses imperfect people and does great things through them. The story of America is not the story of perfect people. But you see time and time again how God got involved in the process and use these imperfect people to do great things that impacted the entire world from America. To find out more, go to and check out The American Story.


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us, folks. Thanks to Mat Staver for joining us today. One more time, is the place to go. that stands for Liberty Counsel., contribution, and email, that’s what we’re asking you to do. Contribution to to fight these fights, get on their email list so that you can stay informed, and keep up with all these things happening across the country.

Only a few minutes left for today. So I just want to issue a couple of challenges to you. I want to encourage you as well, remember, you got to keep the right perspective. As we said at the top of the program, you know, if you look at just this one moment in time, it is easy to get depressed when you look around you, when you look at the crazy things happening in our nation right now.

But when you step back, and you look in the context of history, you realize you know what, mankind’s been pretty crazy at virtually every other point in history as well, sometimes a different kind of crazy. And you know, we just had it so good. I mean, let’s be blunt. We’ve had it so good in America for so long and we benefited from implementing biblical principles. Because the nation was founded on biblical principles, we were able to reap the benefit of that. 

When we sowed the system that God had designed, when we sowed his principles into the nation, when we built the nation based on his instruction manual, we had incredible results, it became the most powerful, most free, the wealthiest, the most benevolent nation in the history of the world; and we have been beneficiaries of that. And our current generations have been living off the fumes of the hard work and the good principles of previous generations. And we haven’t had to do the hard work. We haven’t had to study. We haven’t had to invest our time. We haven’t had to invest, frankly, our lives, fortunes, and sacred honor the way that the Founding Fathers had to do to launch this nation.

And so now we’re faced with this crisis in America. I mean, it’s a lot like when Thomas Paine wrote “The American Crisis” a week before Christmas in 1776 and things were falling apart and most of the troops had left and Washington and his troops had shrunk from, I think, it was 25,000 down to about 2,500, I can’t remember the exact numbers, but I mean, it looked like it was all over. And Thomas Paine said, you know, most people will shrink from this, most people will be sunshine patriots, they will be summer soldiers, and they will not fight this battle. But we need winter soldiers. We need those who will, as he said, stand it now.

And of course, a week later, Washington makes that surprise attack on those sessions, crossing the Delaware River, and it literally in a snowstorm a blizzard, a miraculous victory and the greatest comeback in military history, and his rank swelled to, I think, 15,000 within just a few weeks. But folks, that required winter soldiers. And we’ve got to start thinking like that. We’ve got to say, okay, I am willing to do the study, I’m willing to spend the time to study liberty and freedom to study the Bible, and then I’m willing to act on those things.

That’s what we’re asking you to do. Become a continual listener of WallBuilders Live and share it with your friends and family, all of that at And then become one of our Constitution coaches. Go to today, get signed up as a coach. Join us on Monday nights, if you want. We have a free class on Monday nights, and you can be a part of that. But then host your own class in your home, at your church somewhere in your community so that you can be the catalyst for restoration of biblical values and constitutional principle.

Thanks so much for listening today to WallBuilders Live.