Foundations Of Freedom “€“ Private Property, Funding Planned Parenthood, And More: Is private property Biblical? Are Muslims evangelizing in high schools? Do Supreme Court justices have to be lawyers first? Tune in to learn the answers to these questions and more!

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture

President Thomas Jefferson said, “€œI know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves; and if we think they”€™re not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”€


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy and faith and other areas of the culture. We always do that from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s constitution coach. I’m here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Tim Barton is a national speaker and pastor and the president of WallBuilders.

And all three of us are just thrilled that you’re here with us on WallBuilders Live because it tells you’re interested in knowing what to do in the culture, in our society, in this nation, how to use the freedoms that we’ve been given to do our part, fulfill our responsibilities that come with our rights”€¦ Everybody loves to talk about their rights under the Constitution. But what about the responsibilities? And if you’re listening today, we know that you want to be a part of the solution, you want to fulfill those responsibilities.

And so our goal is to equip and inspire, to entertain, yes, to have a fun program that’s entertaining with lots of great information, but also to equip and inspire you. We want to make sure you have the tools you need to go out there and make a difference in your culture and in your society.

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If you want to help us do that, and spread the word and reach more people, you can do that very simply by going to Click on the contribute button and that’s a great way to come alongside us. Those dollars, every time you make a contribution, it expands our voice. It allows us to reach more people through more stations, through more programs. We train pastors and young leaders, we train legislators. There’s all kinds of things that we’re doing with the dollars that you donate and it helps to impact the culture in a positive way you can become a force multiplier by going to the website today and making that contribution right there

Okay guys, let’s dive into it. We’ve got several questions to get to today. We’ll see how many we can get in. Our first question is going to come from, let’s see, who do we have? This is Kenneth. And Ken, his question is he said, “€œI was reading in Genesis 23, 1 through 16. I was wondering why it was that Abraham insisted on paying for property to bury Sarah. The people the sons of Heth were willing to give Abraham the land for free and the sons of Heth considered Abraham a mighty Prince among them. Was Abraham concerned if he received the land for free that later the sons of heads would come back to Abraham with a, you owe us for the free land? Helped me to understand the reason Abraham insisted on paying for the land. I’m reading the Bible cover to cover, I made it a goal of mine to read the Bible cover to cover yearly, more things are jumping out to me than last year. It’s great. Thank you. I appreciate all you do.”€ Ken from Washington State.

Why Would Abraham Pay?

PS: I just finished reading Sam Houston and the Alamo Avengers. I have a better understanding of why Texans have so much pride in Texas. Well, you”€™re right on so many fronts, Ken and I love the fact you’re reading through the Bible once a year, is one of the things I learned from David Barton 20 years ago that the founders did that and made it a practice. And I’m like you every year when I read through, I keep seeing new stuff. David, Tim, what about this question and paying for the property as Abraham did?


There’s a good answer to that and historical example, the answer. But I want to go back for a second to read into the Bible once a year. One of the founding fathers is a guy named Elias Boudinot and Elias Boudinot is one of the founders of the American Bible Society. Now significantly, he is the guy that was president of Congress when the revolution ended. So he signed the peace treaty to end the revolution with Great Britain. That’s significant. He’s a member of the first Congress. He helped frame the Bill of Rights. Which is really significant. He’s the first judge admitted to the US Supreme Court bar. That’s pretty significant. I mean, in other words, he’s a big name guy. We just don’t know the name today.

So here he is, as a founder and the first president of the American Bible Society and he like most founders started reading through the Bible cover to cover when he was much younger. And when he was 77 years old in helping found the American Bible Society, he wrote a piece and it was to his daughter and it was in response to Thomas Paine.

Reading Through the Bible

But, he sums it up and basically said, look, I’ve read through the Bible more than 50 times in my life and he says, I still scarcely go through it that I didn’t find something new. So every time I read it and it’s like, every time you read it, you do a deeper dive. You know, you’re you go to math in the first grade. But in second grade, math is deeper. And then third grade, is deeper and a fourth grade, is deeper. And that’s the way the Bible is. Just because you go through it once doesn’t mean you’ve got it. Oh, no, not about long shot. So I really appreciate the fact that Ken is going through it year by year and he will find deeper stuff every year.

And going back to the question of Sarah and Abraham and property and why not just take it if they gave it. And it does go to the answer of if you own it, nobody can take it away from you. And Thomas Jefferson is one the best explanations of this of any I know. If you go back to the founding era before Thomas Jefferson, if you go back to the pilgrims and the Puritans and you go back to John Davenport, who’s one of the founders of Connecticut and Thomas hooker, founder of Connecticut, if you go to all these founders, they bought those colonies from the Indians at the price set by the Indians. William Penn, Pennsylvania, he purchased it from the Indians. And the same with New Hampshire and the same with Massachusetts and the same with Massachusetts Bay Colony and Plymouth Colony. The same with Connecticut Valley and the New Haven colony. Now in the south, they largely did not purchase colonies, but in the north, they did.

Indians and Land

And so we’re talking in the 1620s, 1630s, 1640s, 50s. By the time you get to the 1770s and 80s and 90s, we have a problem and that you have a whole lot more Indians, the descendants of those who signed the treaties and they’re getting short on land. And so Thomas Jefferson”€¦


Short on land being a relative in the sense of the land they used to own because they go further west.


That’s right. That’s true.


But no, this is”€¦ I mean, right, the land they want is what used to be their ancestors hunting grounds and right, their villages and their farms and it was all sold and we want, that land was awesome, we want it back and you can make the argument they didn’t understand the notion at the time, maybe of private property ownership in the sense of that these white settlers were going to build homes and never leave, right. But that might not have been a thought they had. But this is where they’re now seeing the property they used to be in their family, instead of saying, let’s just go west to where there’s undeveloped territory, right, where maybe there’s not people there. They wanted back what had been in their family’s history at some point previously.


And so what happens is, as there are so many more of them now in the 1770s and 80s and 90s and early 1800s, they’re starting to fight to get that land back, but they sold it and the settlers have the title deeds from their Indian forefathers who gave them that land, who purchased and who sold it.

A Look at the Southern States

And so Jefferson said, that’s a lot of tension. They want their land back, but they can’t get it back, because they sold. And that’s different in the southern states. And they get the Cherokees and the Trail of Tears and Andrew Jackson and etc.

When you look down in the southern states, by and large, they weren’t buying land the way they had generally done it in northern states and there were exceptions in south and north. But generally, in the north, they were very respectful private property and purchase land in the south. It’s hey, the king gave it to us, you guys get off our land. So different mindsets, but that’s what Abraham is. Once he owns the land, then anyone that comes after him in later generations, they don’t have the standing to be able to take it back. They may disagree with the fact that was sold to him, but the great, great grandkids can’t come in and say give us our land. Well, it’s not your land, I actually bought that land.

So the concept of private property ownership is very big in the Bible and it gives you a lot of protections. And that’s why the biblically literate settlers that came to America, particularly those in New England who were reformation students, they were really big into buying private property, respecting private property, owning private property. It belongs to the Indians, we can’t live on it unless we get the title deed to it. Whereas in the south, it was much more socialistic as well the king gave it to us. All you Indians get off it because it belongs to him.

The Bible and Private Property

Now that the Bible is what created that concept of private property ownership and that of Sarah and Abraham and him wanting to own that property. That’s one of the good examples of it in the Bible.


But what a fantastic example of combining that biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. I mean, it really does tie together and it’s the reason that our nation has been so blessed, is because we learned from those biblical examples. We’re going to take a quick break. We’ll come back, we’ve got more of your questions. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday and you’re listening to WallBuilders.

The Rightful Masters

Abraham Lincoln said, “€œWe the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”€

Moment from American History

This is Tim Burton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. In 1963, the United States Supreme Court decided that voluntary Bible reading could no longer be part of the school day. Founding Father, Benjamin Rush, known as the father of public schools under the Constitution, pointedly warned that the Bible should be read in schools in reference to all other books. He specifically warned that if America ever cease promoting biblical principles and schools, then we would waste so much time and money and punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them. He was right.

We now have 7 million Americans in prison, on probation or on parole and the United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Sadly, this was unnecessary but is the result of no longer teaching the morals of the Bible and schools. For more information about the founding fathers views on the positive impact of the Bible and schools go to

Power is Inherent in the People

Thomas Jefferson said, “€œThe Constitution of most of our states and of the United States assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves. That is their right and duty to be at all times armed that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property and freedom of press.”€


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live, it”€™s Foundations of Freedom Thursday. And if you’d like to get your question answered, be sure and that into [email protected]. David. Tim, our next question is from Joe. It’s about President Trump. He said, “€œIt’s my understanding that President Trump suspended as much government funding of Planned Parenthood as he could. Yet, I just read a report saying that this past year, Planned Parenthood received more government funding than ever before. How did that happen?

And Guys, I don’t see in Joe’s question, what the report was or whether or not that’s federal or state funding, so I’m not sure how to clarify that one for you. But in general, do you guys know if they’re, you know, kind of bottom line went up or down? I know, I’ve read and we’ve talked about on the program all the different ways Trump has gone in and said, no, not helping them anymore.


Yeah, here’s the problem that they face because, as I recall the overall number, so approximately 2/3 to 3/4 of their total funding came from government entities, so they’re getting funding from federal governments, state governments, etc.

Funding for Planned Parenthood

Then, states like Texas step in and say, well, we’re not funding Planned Parenthood anymore and the federal government steps in and says, well, we’re not funding Planned Parenthood, so they stop all this and yet Planned Parenthood didn’t go under. They lose approximately 2/3, 3/4, their funds are still here. How come? Because when Texas said we’re not going to, the city of Austin said, well, we’re going to and the city of Denton and Collin County said, well, we’re going to.

So Texas came back last year and passed a law that says, by the way, not only Texas, but none of the political subdivisions in Texas can fund that. So Georgia can pass a law that funds Planned Parenthood, but Atlanta is going to say not us, we’re going to fund it. And Alabama can say well, we’re going to stop it and Birmingham says well, we’re going to fund it. So what you find is the very blue areas and very red states stepped up and said, we’ll fund it. And that’s why states like Texas came back and had to pass laws, now the other states really haven’t done what Texas has done yet. But Texas came in and said, we”€™ll have no political subdivision anywhere in the state doing this.

And then on the federal level, while he directly defunded Planned Parenthood, there are still tons of grants that are out there. So Planned Parenthood just goes and competes for grants. And they’ll win a grant from some lower level agency somewhere that gives them 10 million here and 20 million here and whatever. So they’re still finding ways to keep that government funding coming, even though there has been so many efforts to defund.

Trump Defunding Planned Parenthood

And the other thing is in so many states, the federal judges stopped in and overturn the state law, whereas Missouri says we’re going to defund, the federal judge stepped in and said, no, you’re not going to defend. So there’s been a lot of noise about trying to defund and there’s been a lot of the funding that’s happened. But there are so many other ways whereby those that are have a pro-abortion mindset do find ways to get government funds into Planned Parenthood coffers. So that’s really the work around this happening and that’s why the bottom line appears that nothing is happened. Even though President Trump has done everything he can to shut off federal dollars. It’s all those grant and title programs that really keep them funded.


Well, the good news is that all of those victories across the country, whether it’s at the local level or at the federal level with the president in defunding Planned Parenthood has made them scrambling and kept them from increasing what they would have increased to, which always means more abortion. Is every time you increase Planned Parenthood, it’s going to be more abortion. You decrease Planned Parenthood, fewer abortions. So that’s the thing to remember.

And what this also means, David, folks at home, hey, fight on the local level, don’t just assume you elect a president that’s good on an issue that solves the problem. We have to be engaged at the local level, the state level, price of freedoms, to turn on vigilance and on this one of life, we should be fighting at every single level. Stay with us, folks. We got more questions coming up. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live and its Foundations of Freedom Thursday.

The Greatest Political Priviledge

President Calvin Coolidge said, “€œThe more I studied the Constitution, the more I realized that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”€


Hey friends, if you”€™ve been listening to WallBuilders Live for very long at all, you know how much we respect our veterans and how appreciative we are of the sacrifices they make to make our freedoms possible. One of the ways that we love to honor those veterans is to tell their stories. Here on WallBuilders Live, once in a while we get an opportunity to interview veterans that have served on those front lines, that have made incredible sacrifices, have amazing stories that we want to share with the American people.

Share Your Veteran”€™s Story

One of the very special things we get to do is interview World War Two veterans. You’ve heard those interviews here on WallBuilders Live from folks that were in the band of brothers to folks like Edgar Harrell that survived being Indianapolis. There’s so many other great stories you’ve heard on WallBuilders Live. You have friends and family that also serve.

If you have World War Two veterans in your family that you would like to have their stories shared here on WallBuilders Live, please email us at [email protected], [email protected]. Give us a brief summary of the story and we’ll set up an interview. Thanks so much for sharing here on WallBuilders Live.

Questions of Power

Thomas Jefferson said, “€œIn questions of power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down for mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”€


Welcome back to WallBuilders Live, it”€™s Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Today, we’re taking your questions and the next one is going to come from Bill in Tallahassee, Florida. He said, “€œCan a person who is not a lawyer be a justice on the US Supreme Court? This question came from the Constitution Alive series on the courts at our local library. It got me thinking because a professional architect won election over a professional real estate appraiser for the position of county property appraiser in the county next door. If a person other than a lawyer can be a justice on the US Supreme Court, I nominate David Barton to be our next Supreme Court justice.”€ I second that nomination, Bill. “€œKeep up the good work on WallBuilders Live on the radio onward.

Now, Bill, great question. And he’s one of our coaches. He teaches Constitution Alive multiple times a year. Great question. Only thing is I don’t think David wants to move to DC. So if he were to be nominated, he would probably say, no, no, I think that you would, sir.

Qualifications for a Supreme Court Justice


That would be fun. Well, you know, like, electronically. I’ll just sit at home and watch it on Zoom and just send my opinion in, yeah. Interestingly enough, there is no constitutional requirement for law school, for previous judgeships; there’s no judicial experience required. That is not a constitutional requirement at all. And when you look at, for example, what’s your judicial disposition? There are, I can’t tell you how many numbers of Supreme Court justices have never been a judge before being on the Supreme Court. That’s their first experiences a judge on the Supreme Court.

Now, when you look back over all the justices on the court, as it turns out, it appears that nearly all of them have been attorneys. Although back in the founding era, a lot of more self-taught attorneys. So they didn’t go to law school, they just sit down and read the law books and became a member of the bar and so they’re essentially considered attorneys but it’s not the way we make attorneys today. So they would be home-studied kind of attorneys that taught themselves the law and were able to practice law, can go into court and argue the law because they’d studied it.

So from the sense of having any constitutional requirement, no, nothing there. You’re not required to be an attorney. You’re not required to have judicial experience or judicial temperament or anything else we talked about today. You’re one of three branches. You need to know the constitution, understand it and that was the biggest deal was that constitutional understanding. But throughout history, it appears that most of the Supreme Court justices have been attorneys and somewhere the other even if is self-taught kind of attorney.

Freedom Worth Defending


Alright guys, quick break. We got one more question on Foundations of Freedom Thursday, so you better stay with us. We’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.

Samuel Adams said, “€œThe liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution are worth defending against all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”€


Hi, this is Tim with WallBuilders. And I want to encourage all the pastors out there with the unique opportunity that we’re presenting at WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation, not just seeing the sights, but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent. We get to go through the capital a night and we get to see the spiritual heritage of our founding fathers of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties and freedom and what’s going on in Washington DC.

An Opportunity for Pastors

If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website, and there’s a link that’s for scheduling. If you click on that link, there’s a section for pastors briefing. There’s more information about the dates when it”€™s going, how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual   heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of.

Greatest Political Privilege

President Calvin Coolidge said, “€œThe more I studied the Constitution, the more I realized that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”€


We”€™re back on WallBuilders Live, it”€™s Foundation of Freedom Thursday. Final question of the day comes from a 15 year old student. Here’s the email. “€œHello, I’m a 15 year old student. First, I want to say how much I love WallBuilders.”€ Just stop for a second pause, guys, let’s enjoy this moment. Teenagers loving WallBuilders is awesome. I just think that’s cool, that it appeals to young people to want to know the truth. Okay. Anyway, this 15 year old student said, “€œYou’re one of the best Christian ministries in the world.”€ Hey, I like that statement too. “€œRecently at my school, I saw an advertisement for the local Muslim club.

On the advertisement, there was a senate, saying, “€œAll faith is welcome.”€ This eventually led to a discussion with a Muslim Student telling me, Muslims and Christians worship the same God. I also know the Pope has said exactly that. I know Islam as a false religion. But my question is, why do various religious clubs advertise all faiths are welcome? Specifically, why do Christian clubs do this? And also why do some Christians believe Yahweh is Allah and where did this misguided belief come from?”€

Muslim Evangelism in High Schools

Fifteen year-old students since I don’t have your name here,, we want you there and you need to go to high point this summer,, you’re exactly the kind of student we’re looking for. There’s the fact that these questions would come to your mind and you’d have the boldness to ask them.

Alright, David, Tim, this whole all faith is welcome, is that some kind of constitutional requirement that if you have a club on a high school campus, you have to allow all faith into your club?


Yeah, there is no requirement to allow off faiths in. One of the things that actually has been upheld in many court decisions is that you’re allowed to have guidelines that follow the beliefs of the club. And so we’ve seen this, for example, on college campuses with fraternities, with sororities, with Christian organizations and it’s very much true on high school campuses as well. There are limitations that you’re supposed to allow people to come. But when it comes to selecting officers, that’s where it would be different.

You can have officers selected that meet the criteria that you set, but the notion that all religions are equal comes from really, really poor theology. That is what we would call a lack of apologetics. And so apologetics are where we get the idea of a defense of our faith. Apologetics comes from the word apologia, which is ultimately where Paul talks about he was put here for defense of the gospel. That’s that word, apologia meaning defense. The apologetics of the gospel is kind of that line of thought.

We”€™re Not Going to Pretend Our Faiths Are Equal

And religions are not all equal and we do not all worship the same God. But when you don’t know what your faith is, you don’t recognize that it’s different than somebody else’s and you don’t know what their faith is, you don’t know that is different than yours. And I have no problem saying that we invite everybody to come to our church and we’re outspoken Christian church where I attend church, that everybody can come to our church. But when you come to our church, we’re not going to pretend like all faiths and all religions are equal, we’re going to say, no, we believe that there is one God, creator of the universe in the sense of like the father, although in him are three parts: the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit and we believe that his son is Jesus Christ. I mean, we’re not going to sacrifice or compromise our theology for somebody else to be there.

But we would love for you to come and learn what we believe and why we believe it. And actually, we think we have the best reason for believing what we believe, which is why we think it’s great for you to believe that as well. The idea that you have to pretend that all faiths are equal on a high school campus is really kind of a silly position. Then it shows that people don’t really know what that faith is about.

An Evangelistic Tool


But there’s another step to that and you set it up to him and the sense that notice that back in the question he says, The Muslim club said, all faiths are welcome, and he went from there. This is taught as one of the evangelism tools of Muslims, is you build bridges with other religions, but they’re very specifically taught the bridge is only going one direction. They’re for them to come to us, not for us to come to them. And so what you do is you make a show that oh, yeah, your God is our God; oh, we all believe the same thing. And that gets you by the thing of, wait a minute, you guys are the ones that are doing all the stuff in the Middle East and all over Africa and Indonesia, that doesn’t look real good. No, no, we get the same God.

And so this really is this pluralism kind of aspect is this coexist with all faith aspect is we want you to lay down your beliefs so that you can start moving toward us and then we can get you on into us. So it is really an entry level kind of a tool. And we’ve had even on this program, those who have been very active and very deep in the Muslim faith, very high up in it, Muslim Brotherhood etc. after they become Christians, they say, well, yeah, I know that’s what they say, but I used to teach this. I know what I was trained and I was one of the leaders and this is why we say that.

Not a Tool of Equality

And so this is an outreach tool and it is not a tool of equality. Now, I would say and this is just kind of being facetious with the term. I don’t think Islam is a false religion. I think it’s very real, because 21% of the world is dealing with it. But in the sense of theologically, yeah, I think theological, it’s a wrong religion. But in the sense of, they’re very genuine, they’re very real and what they believe has very genuine consequences.

And so what they try to do is say, oh, yeah, Yahweh and Muhammad, same thing. No, it’s not. But that’s the way to get your walls down and get you moving in their direction. And that’s why it’s so significant that the Muslim club said all faiths are welcome. That”€™s an evangelistic tool.


There are more programs available right now at, you can click in the archive section here. If you’re a podcast listener, download those podcasts throughout the week. We have great interviews like the one today with President Munsil from Arizona Christian University, as well as with US senators and congressmen and attorneys that are arguing before the Supreme Court and individuals just like yourself that are making a difference in their communities that are some of our constitution coaches out there, that host classes, biblical citizenship classes in their churches and use the materials that WallBuilders makes available for all kinds of educational opportunities. So all kinds of ways that you can be a part of the solution.

Private Property, Funding Planned Parenthood, And More

As I mentioned at the beginning of the program, one of the easiest ways and most important is through dollars. Yes, finances: live”€™s fortune sacred honor. Sound familiar? Right there in the Declaration of Independence, fortunes was a big part of it. Yes, we got to invest our dollars in freedom. And one of the best places you can do that is right here on WallBuilders., click on the contribute button. A lot of our folks across the nation give 5 or 15 or 25 bucks a month. Whatever you can do, we greatly appreciate that support. It helps us to expand, reach more people across the nation and therefore be a part of the solution in saving our constitutional republic for future generations.

God bless you. Hope you enjoyed listening today? You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.

Thomas Jefferson said, “€œThe Constitution of most of our states and of the United States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that is their right and duty to be at all times armed; and that they’re entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.”€