Foundations of Freedom

Quarantines And The Constitution – On Foundations of Freedom: Is the government overstepping its boundaries with all these quarantines? Voices of truth proclaiming the Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective are becoming more vital every day. Tune in to hear what you can do to protect your God-given rights.

Air Date: 04/09/2020

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

The Greatest Political Privilege

Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I studied the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”

Faith and the Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live and we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy and faith and the culture. We’re always looking at it from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. And certainly, Foundations of Freedom Thursday is a great time to really dive specifically into that constitutional perspective. We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. Tim Barton is with us, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach.

You can check us out at wallbuilderslive.com for more information and that is a great place to make that one time or monthly donation. We certainly recognize times are tough right now. We have, you know, all kinds of economic issues and cultural issues going on right now. But I’ll tell you, having a voice of truth that looks at a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective is more important than ever. So, whatever you can do to help us out there, please do wallbuilderslive.com, click on the contribute button and it will go a long way to invest in freedom and preserve our constitutional republic. As we deal with these very trying times where the Constitution is definitely under attack in many areas and frankly, the Constitution has been quarantine.

Back we’ve got a series of videos I did on quarantines and the Constitution. Now, where is the line? How far should government go, can government go and what can we as citizens do to save this constitutional republic for future generations? You can check that out at patriotacademy.com/quarantine. That’s where all of those videos are. There’re series there. It won’t take you long to watch them, but you’ll learn a lot about what the Constitution says about what we could and should be doing right now.

Well, that is Foundations of Freedom Thursday, let’s dive into those questions that come from our audience. David, Tim, we have got an email box full of questions for Foundations of Freedom Thursday today. I know we’re not going to get to all of and of course, the theme right now is, you know, what can the government be doing during all these quarantines and the shutdowns? And where’s the line? How far can they go? What’s the constitution say? What did the state statue say? Lots of great questions we’re getting from folks, we’re going to try to get to some of those today. Definitely, can’t get to all of them.

I did a little video series on quarantines and the Constitution, just did a new one yesterday. Some of those are available or all of those are available at our Patriot Academy website. So just go to patriotacademy.com/quarantine, if you want to dive into some of that.

But David, Tim, good questions. I know you guys have been thinking about this a lot. Looking back, you got the library there. What’s the history on this, the constitutional perspective? You all ready to dive into some questions?

David:

You bet. And by the way, before we do, Rick, let me just say, the series you’ve got is really, really good. And people really need to go there. You hit a whole lot of the questions. What is the State role in this? What’s the role in this? Where does the lines divide? Is this something new? And most people probably can’t think of other types of quarantines or isolation. By the way, what is the difference between that?

What’s Constitutional?

You cover that as well. What’s constitutional? What’s not? And you point out examples back to the 1600s, where there’s isolation and quarantines and what the federal government is supposed to do, what the State governments are supposed to do, what the State statutes are, due process rights that go with those.

So, your series that you’ve gotten each day is, I don’t know. What is it? 10 minutes, 9 minutes, 8 minutes, 11 minutes, whatever. They’re really, really good. They’re really helpful. On Tuesday night, I did a national program for an hour, a guest hosted a program about where we are COVID and what’s going on and I listened to your stuff before I got on there and it was really helpful, really good for that as well. So, I encourage everyone to really go there and look at that.

And in preparation for the program that I did Tuesday night, I called some of the legal groups to see what’s going on, particularly this legal groups who are really interested in constitutional issues and particularly even churches. Because we’re looking coming up on Easter Sunday and this may be the first time in history of the United States at any point in time that we will not be having Easter services and churches or so to speak. I mean, there may be some that are going to meet, some have met, but generally, for most of the nation, there won’t be services. So, you know, what’s going on with that? And talking to constitutional guys and…

Protecting the Churches

Rick:

Hey, David, I’m curious as you talk to those guys. They’re get inundated. I’m assuming they’re getting tons of calls from churches saying, what can we do? How should we handle this?

David:

Well, it’s really interesting, because I asked them about that and asked him how it’s going, how many lawsuits have they filed? And I’ll just start out with kind of the overview they gave me, because I thought it was really good. To follow lawsuit, you got to have a constitutional violation. And it’s hard to have a constitutional violation as long as three general provisions are met with this particular incident. If what the government does is limited and temporary and universal, then it’s hard for them to file a lawsuit. And let me explain that.

Limited in the sense, that the federal government has not taken over the nation as telling everybody what to do. They’re given guidelines, they’ve left it up to the States. They’ve left it up to cities to what to do. They’ve observed federalism. So, in that sense, it’s going to be a little harder to have constitutional violations because the federal government is not mandating a lot of stuff.

And when you look at a long list from the Department of Homeland Security, on what they call the essential services, my gosh, it is so many industries are on that essential service list and in many ways are still protected. So, the federal government hadn’t shut down everything, they haven’t gone in and closed everything down. And next thing is, is it unlimited? And second, is it temporary? Well, it is. You know, they’re wanting to lift it by Easter, now, they’re talking maybe May. And so, this is not like we’ve taken over and this is the way it’s going to be for the foreseeable future. They’re trying to get out of it. And that’s good. So, as long as it’s a temporary condition, it’s harder to do anything constitutionally.

And then the third requirement is, is it universal? And this is where the churches start coming into it. And talking to one of the groups. There was a town in Texas, where they said, alright, here’s the rules under which daycare can meet, but churches can’t meet. No, no, no. If daycares can meet, churches can meet. If you’re shutting down gatherings, you’re shutting down gatherings. You can’t just pick out churches and say, no gatherings. So, that becomes a constitutional violation when you start saying that not everybody is the same. You’re the same under the Constitution. There is some room for essential services, those things that are critical and necessary. But to say daycare is critical and churches are not critical. No, that that’s not going to fly. So…

Rick:

But it’s kind of like a content neutral thing. If they say no billboard is allowed, that would be universal or content neutral. They said no billboards that mentioned religion, then you got a problem.

David:

Then you got a problem. And so, what’s happened is you had that going on. You had another one, where that a city here in Texas said, churches can only meet by teleconferencing or by Facebook Live. Now, there’s a lot of other ways to do that as well. You know, there’s drive-in churches we talked about last week that driving churches are popping up. And that’s okay. That’s not gatherings. And you can do that if there’s not a shelter in place order.

So, a lot of the stuff, they said that legally, they have been writing letters to the cities and the cities when they see it, they’re instantly changing their position. They’re saying, oh, got it. It wasn’t content neutral. And so, I said, so, what you’re seeing really involves ignorance rather than animus. In other words, there’s not hatred involved. They’re not targeting churches. They’re just ignorant of treating everybody alike and that what they’re doing is not treating churches, their doubt is right. So, there haven’t been lawsuits per se.

Now, it gets a little different when you start looking at something like Virginia. The governor of Virginia says if there’s a church service, that is a criminal violation, you will go to jail. Now, you’ve targeted just church services. Or if you’re the Governor of Illinois and you say, well, cannabis dispersal is an essential service, but churches are not. No, now we got a real problem, but say cannabis is and churches aren’t. Or if you’re the mayor of New York City and say, if I see a church service, you’re going to jail. You know, you can’t do that.

So, what’s happened? There’s been no lawsuits yet because they have not thrown people in jail. Now, there’s a couple of people that have been arrested. Rodney Howard-Browne down in Florida was arrested. There was an arrest in Louisiana. And those are going to be a little more difficult, because the authorities went to the pastors and said, guys, please don’t put us in this position. We don’t want this. We’re treating everybody the same. All meetings are shut down right now. Don’t. And they really worked with the pastors and pastors still said, we’re not shutting down. So, that’s going to be a little harder to show constitutional violation because they really did try to work with the pastures to get a solution and it’s a temporary thing and please don’t put us in a position of having to enforce this ordinance. So, those are the instances we know now.

Now, there’s a lawsuit filed this week from Alliance Defending Freedom. In the sense that in North Carolina, you’ve got abortion clinics, they’re considered essential services. Well, that’s elective surgery anyway you look at it. And so, there were Christians less than 10 out protesting and they arrested the Christians for protesting. Well, they’re under 10 and etc, and they can be out and they’re not a big group. And so, 8 were arrested. Well, Alliance Defending Freedom instantly filed a lawsuit on that one. You’re not going to do that. You’re not going to shut off people from exercising their right to petition the government for redress of grievances.

So, there’s been very, very few lawsuits coming out from constitutional groups. Tim and I were on a phone call with three of these groups last week. And they are geared and primed and they’re going to jump right on top of this anytime they see something that they believe is a clear constitutional violation. And so, to the credit of what’s going on, there Just not many lawsuits have been filed, because these things are limited, they are temporary and they are universal. So, that kind of answers a lot of questions that have come in over. Can they do this? Can they do that? Is this okay? Is it not okay? And that kind of sets the tone. But again, I’ll send everybody back to your short videos because they were really good. They were really helpful for me on that national program. And then we went through the other stuff we just kind of talked about as well.

Rick:

Well, we’ll take a quick break, when we’ll come back, sure, dive in into some questions. I think it’s been really cool to watch some of the churches do some very innovative things. Like you said, the drive-in kind of church thing where you can worship together. Our friend that we’ve had on the program many times, Rob McCoy out there in Thousand Oaks, California, he did a really cool communion service, you know, last weekend where only, you know, 8 or 10 could be in the whole church. I mean, this big church, you know, that host 500 people and they had, you know, basically 8 or 10 seats in the whole church and only that many people could come in at a time. And it was an emotional thing too, just you know, you realize how much you miss being able to, you know, do things like that together with your church body. So, pretty neat how churches are adapting to this and still finding ways to serve their congregations. Quick break, we’ll be right back. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday here on WallBuilders Live.

Power Inherent in the People

Thomas Jefferson said, “The Constitution most of our states and the United States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves. That is their right and duty, to be at all times armed; and that they’re entitled to freedom of persons; freedom of religion; freedom of property or freedom of press.”

One-Room Schoolhouse

Hey friends, this is Rick Green from WallBuilders Live and I have had so many requests about what in the world could we be studying at home right now? You know, I got the kids at home, they’re normally in school or if you homeschool, you’re looking for additional material. One-Room Schoolhouse. It is a great new series WallBuilders is putting out or you literally get a tour of the WallBuilders library as Tim Barton and Jonathan Ritchie bring history to life. There’s a couple of resources on this.

You can go to YouTube and search for WallBuilders and look for One-Room Schoolhouse. You can go to our Facebook page and get it right there on Facebook as we do it live each Monday and sometimes additional days from there. And then you can also just go to wallbuilders.com scroll down to the bottom and we’ll be posting the videos as they come out. This is such a great way to learn and a great way for you to share with others. Gather the family around, watch the One-Room Schoolhouse and learn some great history. It’ll be vitally important to restoring our nation and bringing back these principles that made America great in the first place. Check it out One-Room Schoolhouse at wallbuilders.com

Constitutional Power

President Thomas Jefferson said, “I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves. And if we think they’re not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”

Rick:

Welcome back here on WallBuilders Live, it’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday, and we got tons of great questions coming in, for any, please send those in. We’re going to get to as many topics as we can. Today, we’re going to give Gilbert the first question. David, Tim, he asks, this has to do with, you know, where government has authority on these things and how far they can go.

He said, “My work is mandated that I wear a face mask of some sort in order to be at work while being anywhere that is not my desk. I asked what authority they had to mandate this and they did not answer my question. They just told me who made it official, the county health officer. I work for the county. And I’m wondering, do they have authority to mandate this? If they do not, who do I contact fight this? How should I research to find this answer?

Thanks for all you do. Thanks for taking time to review my question.” So that’s a question from Gilbert, who is in California. And so, the county has said wear a mask. David, Tim, this is not the first time this has happened. Because we did that back in the Spanish flu, San Francisco required mask for everybody, not just if you work for the county. What do you guys think about where that line is?

Obey Your Boss

Tim:

Well, guys a couple things from this. The first thing I would point out is he does say that my boss wants me to do this. And pretty much, when you have a boss over you, you’re kind of subject in those scenarios. Because this is not, I mean, wearing a mask, I have a hard time seeing that as violating a God given rights. Right? I don’t know if there’s a God given right to not wear a mask. Because we’re not limiting religion, or speech or property or self-defense, etc. But certainly, we might talk about there could be different regulations that a government run organization versus a private business. I’m sure that a private business owner have the authority to run their business how they want to, that would be a different conversation.

But if you’re working, whether you’re working for the federal government or at a private business, if your boss says this is what he wants you to do, as long as it’s not ungodly or unconstitutional, I don’t see that there’s really good reason to oppose that. Now, if they said you have to go by this, you have to provide and they’re going to charge you or cause you to have these extra expenses, you can have more of a conversation.

But certainly, in this scenario, even though we can look and seem like, well, this is kind of silly, you know, one of the things that we mentioned and we’ve talked about in the program. The role of government is number one, to protect the individuals, to protect their citizens. And the biggest thing they’re supposed to protect is the right to life. And anytime that somebody is doing something that might threaten the life or endanger the life of others, this is where the government would say this is a compelling interest for them, right?

Compelling Interest

The legal term, it’s a compelling interest that they need to get involved in the process. We could talk about the level of involvement and I think sometimes they go way too far in this involvement with some of these quarantines. But this does seem like the government does have a level of compelling interest to be involved in the process. And masks don’t seem like it’s gone so far to violate our civil rights or liberties.

David:

Yeah, mask is inconvenient, but it’s not necessarily intrusive. And Tim, you and I have a couple days ago, we’re on a call with Whitehouse. And on that call, the Surgeon General is giving an update on some new things they found. And he was talking about how much they’ve learned about the coronavirus since the last 8-10 weeks, what they’re finding out. And he said the thing with mask is now changing. It was that people were wearing masks so they wouldn’t get infected. He said, now you need to wear a mask so you don’t affect others. Because what they found out is that you can be a carrier of coronavirus for 14 days without any symptoms whatsoever, but you can’t infect others around you. And so, he says, they’re really recommending mask now for the protection of those around you. You’re really trying to help others, not you.

Protecting the Elderly

Tim:

And really for the protection of the elderly around us, because still, right, the vast numbers that are being reported and there’s some question about what was being reported now accurate things are and we don’t have all the information that we would hope to have released from the powers that be at this point. But it does seem like this is much more impactful for the elderly than anybody else.

And so certainly, wanting to help the elderly around us, whether we’re at Walmart or Target or wherever we shop, what we’re doing, picking up those essential things, we want to make sure that we are not doing something that might endanger somebody else if we’re a carrier and it won’t affect us. Right? We might not feel sick ever even one time might have a sore throat and nothing is going on for us, but we can be a carrier and not know it. And so, we do want to be respectful of others and try to help others if we can.

David:

And this one, I’d say it’s kind of the golden rule. “Do unto others what you want them to do unto you.” I would like them not to infect me, so I’m going to try not to infect them. So, I look at this more in many ways, it’s not a constitutional issue, but more of a courtesy issue. It is inconvenient. It’s not intrusive. But knowing what we’re finding right now, I want to protect somebody else’s inalienable right to life. And I don’t want to be a carrier and contaminate them and not be aware of it and then they get sick as a result. So yeah, it’s an inconvenience, it is a change in our lifestyle, but I wouldn’t look at it as a constitutional violation.

Golden Rule

Rick:

Yeah, it’s so true, David. I mean, the golden rule fits so perfectly right here. And look, the good news is that, you know, what they’re saying is roughly half of the people that get this, you know, they’re asymptomatic, they have no side effects at all. But the bad news is they don’t even know they have it and so, then they are spreading it and giving it to other people. So, I think we got to leave business owners with the freedom to set up their workplace however they think they can do it to make it safer for their employees so they can get back to work.

David:

The Surgeon General said, you know, we’ve looked at whether to mandate masks. He said, we’re not going to mandate masks. I mean, he said, Federal government, the States and the Mayors and businesses will make that decision. Which again, is the right position, we’re not going to force everybody to do this. But if your State and by the way, if you’re in California, it’s a whole lot more likely government is going to tell you what to do than it is elsewhere. But at this point, you know, it is a local decision. And, Rick, as you pointed out, if that’s where businesses want to go, yeah. But that’s what the Surgeon General said is no, the feds are not going to mandate this. We’d looked at it, we believe there’s good reasons for doing this. But we’re not going to mandate it.

Getting Back to Work

Rick:

One is part of what will allow businesses to get back to work quicker. I mean, we need to have some faith in these individuals and business owners that they will find ways to do this, just like as we’re going into our, you know, gas stations or grocery stores, those things that have been deemed essential. They figured out ways to separate, you know, the employees they have from the customers and all of those things.

And, you know, it was a great letter to Last week here in Texas from, of all things, a comic book distributor, Lone Star Comics. And very respectful letter to the governor saying, hey, the day before you did your executive order, I shipped out 1700 orders, I got 110 employees. The day after your executive order, I had to furlough all of them and ship nothing to all these people that are at home looking for something to do.

And we can deal with this. We have a huge warehouse, 50,000 square feet, we can be 6 or 10 feet apart and everybody still works, wear masks, whatever is necessary. And I think that’s a great example. We need to let business owners and employees get back to work and let them use common sense and doing those things. But that requires us to be, you know, willing to take these extra steps and submit to authority when it’s appropriate. And that includes the authority of our bosses and folks that were at work, including also those Local and State governments.

So, they’ve definitely gone too far in some areas. But we need to stay balanced here and not just look for a reason to rebel for sure. But certainly not let this get out of hand which in some places it definitely has. Quick break, we’ll be right back. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live and it’s Foundation to Freedom Thursday.

Rightful Masters

Abraham Lincoln said, “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts; not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Hi, friends, this is Tim Barton of WallBuilders. This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even Heroes of the faith. And I know oftentimes for parents, we’re trying to find good content for our kids to read. And if you remember back to the Bible, the book of Hebrews, it has a faith Hall of Fame where they outline the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans, we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes, not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity in our faith as well.

Heroes of Faith

I want to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. The one is called the Courageous Leaders collection. And this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers. And there’s a second collection called Heroes of History. In this collection, you’ll read about people like Benjamin Franklin or Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, friends, the list goes on and on. This is a great collection for your young person to have in read and it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at wallbuilders.com. That’s www.wallbuilders.com.

Easter in Quarantine

Rick:

We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Final segment for today of Foundations of Freedom Thursday. The last question comes from Steve. He said, “Gentleman, has there ever been an Easter where our government has forbidden Christians to meet together to celebrate the resurrection of Christ? Is this legal? And are we morally bound as Christians to follow this directive. Thank you, Steve.” Okay, guys, we covered this a little bit early on. But this is a great one for us to end on today. What should Christians do this weekend?

David:

You’re right, we talked about some of this earlier. But this is the thing where that as far as we know, on record, we can’t find any other issue has been shut down this way. But I would say that this is not the government shutting down churches. This is just the government shutting down everything. So, with the government shutting down everything, it’s not just a church problem. But I look at this as a real opportunity. This is a time for the church to get outside the four walls. This is a time to be creative. You mentioned what Rob McCoy did. So, I think this is a great opportunity. I don’t look at this as a problem as much as an opportunity. And I think churches can do great stuff this Sunday with Easter. It’s going to be a good weekend, I think.

Rick:

Yeah, and like you said, Golden Rule. You know, think about, I mean, let’s follow these guidelines so we don’t put those people we love most at our church at risk. And so, just using some common sense at the same time is going to be really, really important. Hey, Tim, we’re going to mix this up. It’s Foundation of Freedom Thursday, but close us out with some good news. You got to a piece of good news, well, I’m not going to wait for tomorrow.

Hulk Hogan

Tim:

Yeah, guys, I sent you an email. I was so excited when I saw this. It was so bizarre. I never once in my life thought there would be a moment when I say guys, I have got to read something from this person social media. This is so impressive. It’s so powerful. But I saw something from Hulk Hogan social media.

David:

Wait a minute, from who?

Tim:

Hulk Hogan, right, the wrestler.

David:

We’re going back 30 years here, bro… That’s my generation.

Tim:

I don’t even follow him on social media, but somebody shared it. And I read it and just thought, oh, my goodness, so powerful. So, earlier this week, he posted, “In three short months, like he, meaning God did with the plagues of Egypt, God has taken away everything we worship. God said you want to worship athletes, I will shut down the stadiums. You want to worship musicians, I will shut down civic centers. You want to worship actors, I will shut down theaters. You want to worship money, I will shut down the economy and collapse the stock market. You don’t want to go to church and worship Me, well, I’ll make it where you can’t go to church at all.”

He then changes and says, “But if my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and we’ll forgive their sin and we’ll heal their land. Maybe we don’t need a vaccine, maybe we just need to take this time of isolation from the distractions of the world and have a personal revival where we focus on the only thing in the world that really matters, Jesus.”

Good News Friday Coming

And as we were getting ready, now, obviously getting close to Easter, this was something I thought, man, I want to share this with people, even before Good News Friday tomorrow. This is something that certainly is as we start wrapping our minds around what’s coming up this weekend and the question, you know whether or not we’re going to church and we’re so used to doing Easter a certain way. This is such a good opportunity for us in isolation to get our family together, to read from the Gospels together, to do things as a family. We could even do some Zoom or FaceTime or something.

David:

And by the way, I’ll point that the original Passover out of Egypt, it was just families getting together in their own homes. And that’s what it was with family and family.

Tim:

And that’s exactly where a great opportunity for us to get away from distractions, be back with a family. But I never would have thought I wouldn’t be saying guys, we got to read something from Hulk Hogan social media, where he’s talking about getting back to Jesus. But man, what a powerful thought. Maybe we don’t need vaccines. Maybe we just need some private time with personal revival with Jesus.

Who Would’ve Thought?

Rick:

Hey, anybody that can pick up and throw Rocky Balboa out of the ring, you got to take a moment to listen to. But I mean, who would have thought? First time ever on WallBuilders Live that we’re going to segue from our constitutional discussion on Foundation of Freedom Thursday to our Good News Friday with Hulk Hogan.

So, if you want some good news, folks, go to our website, wallbuilderslive.com today, check out those Good News Friday programs and you can dial back to some of those Foundations of Freedom Thursday programs as well. It’s a great time to be diving into constitutional knowledge. So, be sure to do that and we’ve got those videos. We’ll do a link today on the website at wallbuilderslive.com, so you can jump over to those quarantine videos at patriotacademy.com/quarantine.