Forced Sterilizations, National Division, And More – On Foundations Of Freedom: Should governments have the power to sterilize their citizens? Why has the percentage of the professing LGBTQ community risen so drastically in recent generations? Should the federal government have ANY role in the education of our children? Has our nation ever been this divided, and is there any hope for unity? Tune in to hear Biblical and Constitutional answers to these questions and more on today’s Foundations of Freedom program!

Air Date: 11/18/2021

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture

President Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”


Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live. We’re taking on those hot topics of the day, always from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. And always here with David and Tim Barton, David’s America’s premier historian and our founder, WallBuilders, Tim Barton‘s a national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders, and I get to tag along for fun. I’m Rick Green, former Texas legislator, and America’s Constitution coach. You can check us out at

Now, also has archives of the program. So you can look back over the last few weeks and months, if you miss some programs. There’s some great interviews in there. There’s lots of good news and those Friday programs. And then of course, our Foundations of Freedom Thursday programs every week diving into your questions. If you got one today, send it in, [email protected], that’s [email protected] We’re going to try to get to as many of those questions as we can today. But as I said, there’s a lot more at the website. So check it out today

And while you’re there, consider making that one-time or monthly contribution. As a listener-supported program, we certainly appreciate all of you listeners out there that have been supporting and continue to support. When you donate, you’re coming alongside us and you’re helping us to get this truth into as many hands as possible.

Okay, guys, let’s dive into those questions. We’ve got quite a few. We’ll see how many we can reach today. And guys, actually, first question is really two different issues out there that people are asking about. It’s really the radicalization of our government. The first one’s an article where they’re talking about the school board group that now is apologizing for this letter that was linking protesting parents to domestic terrorism. Of course, that led to the Attorney General, literally sick in the FBI on parents across the country.

And then we’ve got this crazy story out of Pennsylvania where the legislature there is actually, they’re looking into the issue of sterilization of men. I mean, they’re calling it enforcing reproductive responsibility among men. So whether we’re talking federal government or state government, are we a little bit outside the boundaries of what government’s supposed to be doing here? Guys, it’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday, let’s talk some foundations here.


Well, let’s clarify that there have been governments and nations that did in for sterilizations. Like that’s happened. If we want to talk about which governments did those, that might be a different conversation. Right? If you’re talking about communist Marxist nations, yes. Many of them have done in for sterilizations; never in a free nation, so to speak.

Now, by the way, this is where people might point back to some of the eugenic stuff. When you go back to a Margaret Sanger, go back to like a Woodrow Wilson, some of the people that supported some of these notions in America. Now, it’s again, worth noting, this is part of some of the really terrible history of some of the Democrat party here in America, is there have been some very terrible, awful, evil people who promoted terrible, awful evil ideas. But those ideas were not largely embraced and sanctioned by the US government, or, in this case, maybe even by state governments.


This is something that this is definitely not Orwellian world, where the 1984 where big brother’s going to come and it’s for your good that we are going to sterilize you. There’s no way in the world that you can look in the Constitution and find the claws on for sterilization or the allowance and toleration that even on the state level, it’s so crazy.

But again, worth noting, governments have done this, it’s just they’ve always been the bad guys who have done this. If you want to be on the side of the bad guys, that is exactly what this is about. And I don’t mean to digress. There were two parts of the question. But I couldn’t avoid jumping in on that one because that is so crazy.


Well, with this being a Foundation of Freedom Thursday, the issue is always constitutional stuff. And so when you hear stuff like this, you have the visceral action like Tim just add, which we all think this is stupid. At what level, how many degrees of stupidity are there? Well, we’re going to show you some more in just a minute as I give you some of the details in the article.

But the proper thing to start with, alright, is this a proper power of government to do this? And if the answer is yes, then the question becomes which jurisdiction should do it? So if the answer were to be yes, that this is a proper power of government to do something like this, like, for example, the school boards, you saying school boards are out of control because parents are angry, because parents are now figuring out what their kids have been taught for the last 20-30 years. And by the way, let me just do a little, little caveat here on something that came out this week on polling.

If you take Rick and Tim both generations, you get Gen X, Y, Z, etc, so millennials is what, Gen X?


They’ll be Gen Y.


Gen Y. Okay. So what’s the generation before them?


Gen X


Gen X. And what age group would that be?



That’s me. I’m Gen X.


Okay. So and then I would be the next one, which is what?


Probably like C or D?


Yes, C or D. Yeah, you’re taking…


I like that, Tim. I thought that [crosstalk 05:16]


That was good. Okay. I think I’m in the baby boomer category. So when you take baby boomer category, and even Rick, so Rick, your Gen X, do you know what percentage, Rick, of your generation what percentage of your generation would be active homosexual? Any clue?


You know, I mean, I remember looking at polls and stuff on this, and it was less than 1%.


That’s right, it was about 1.6-2.5 is what I saw.




So Rick, if you’re Gen X, then Gen Y, which is millennials, which I guess could be some of your kids, at what percentage of millennials now claim an affinity to homosexuality, or LGBTQ as a lifestyle?


Well, let me jump in on this one too because I am a millennial on the beginning of millennials as far as kind of the date range you’re looking at. And what’s interesting about this notion of the self-identification is what we saw over the last decade is more people began to identify as bisexual, and find themselves in the LGBT community, right, because that was part of the B, it was the bisexual.

LGBTQ in Education

Even though they had never had encounters with someone of the same sex, they identified as being fluid because that’s what they were told, right? This is what you’re supposed to be, your gender is fluid. And so the further you go in to the millennial, so starting, I think, generally, you’re looking from like the early 80s, so whether it’s 81, or 82, you’re looking the early 80s, and it’s going to the mid to late 90s, again, depending on what you’re looking at, some say 96, some say 98, those are millennials.

But when you start getting into kids who were born in the 90s, especially the late 90s, they were grown up or brought up in this education system that taught them that gender is fluid, and the good people are supportive of that. And so a lot of kids again, just wanting to be supportive, they begin to identify as something that they did not live in their own life, they just wanted to identify with that group to be supportive, etc.

So I would expect the number to be much higher. I think reality is probably 10-15%, realistically, I think there are people who when sex is not a sacred thing between a man and woman in a marriage union, and we’ve just made sex very flippant and experiences and just go and do and how you feel, that’s what culture is largely done, I think there’s probably more people experimenting. But I think you have a lot of people that would identify in that category, who are doing it to show support, not because that is actually their sexual proclivities and their sexual desires.


So, you may have hit part of the point there too, because the current status is 38% of millennials say, 38%. So here’s the question I have, whether it’s temps 10-15% as being active, and maybe the other is been sympathetic, how do you go from less than 1%, Rick, in your generation to where the next generation is up to maybe 38%? And the answer has to be education. That’s the only way you can get there.

So this is what schools have been teaching for at least a generation now because parents certainly haven’t been on board with this. Because parents, that was not their lifestyle, that was not what they were teaching. They turned their kids over to the schools, the schools taught stuff they didn’t know. Parents are now finding out that you taught my kid what? Wait! And so parents get angry.

And so as we’ve seen across the nation, they are showing up in massive numbers of school boards saying, wait a minute, you took an elementary school to a gay bar on a field trip, how is that a field trip for elementary kids? Or you’ve got high school kids, high school boys that lap dancing with male teachers at the high school and that’s part to be school activity, is lap dancing with high school kids, male teachers? Parents are saying you’re doing what?

And so we’re seeing this. And so what happened was the National School Board Association put a letter into the Biden administration and said, we need you guys to investigate these folks as domestic terrorists. And so Merrick Garland, the Attorney General said, yeah, we’re going to do that. And so he put notice out that we’re going after parents who are disrupting school board meetings and disrupting for good causes, now they’re figuring out what their kids have been taught, they’re disrupting this meeting so now the FBI is coming after them.

Constitutional Jurisdiction

And so here’s the deal. Is that a proper function of government constitutionally? And if so, what jurisdiction? Well, we’re talking education. So constitutionally, education belongs totally to the state level. There is nothing with education in the Constitution that goes at all to the federal level.

So the first problem we got with this is not how stupid it is. But the fact that even if it were to happen, it’s not to be the FBI that does this. This would be the state police or the local police or the sheriff or whoever it is. This is something that falls to the state level.

So the same kind of question continues to go when you look at what happened in this, Rick, as you mentioned this crazy sterilization case that came out of Pennsylvania. So let’s say that sterilization, certainly, that’s not going to be a federal level issue. That’s not anything in the constitution. So is there anything in the state constitution that would allow for this? Now, I just want to read to you part of what this is. And this is Democrat representative Christopher Rabb, and it’s a memorandum it’s been sent out to the House of Representatives for the current session. And here’s what he what he says. So he says “The right of cisgender men”, and by the way, do you guys know as cisgender men is?


I don’t understand any of these terms. I thought that you like change to something else, but I think that means you’re just a man.


That is all it means. Yes. So unfortunately, I do know most of these terms, largely because of what’s being taught in colleges and high schools and so we hear these terms a lot, unfortunately. And so yes, a cisgender male is a heterosexual male. That’s all that is.


Yeah, it’s just a male. So it’s the opposite of transgender. The antonym of cisgender is transgender. So cisgender means you are what you biologically were born. That’s why you have to redefine what a word has been for millennia, who knows. But he says “The rights of cisgender men have always been paramount in our society with little focus on their responsibility as inseminators to change their behaviors for the good of their partners, families, and society at large.”

Now, this is interesting. He looks at men and his party is a much along this and certainly, as a legislator in Pennsylvania, he calls men inseminators, which is really interesting. You have now removed all spiritual components, all familiar components, there is nothing in the sense of raising children, all you are as an inseminator, that’s your role and responsibility, is you just inseminate women, and the product of that the state will raise. So we’re in charge of your kids; you already got a huge philosophical problem here, the way he describes men.

Forced Vasectomies?

He says, “As we head toward climax in this heated discourse around this delicate matter”, he said, “we should come together to address it with surgical precision”. Yeah, literally. He said, “We must also commit amending the social fabric being sliced up by bitter acrimony. In order to improve public health outcomes, and release sweet justice into our households and bedrooms, we must wrap our love of individual liberty and the moral imperative of greater personal responsibility and acknowledge men’s essential role and procreation. Therefore, I will be introducing legislation that will require all inseminators to undergo vasectomies within six weeks from having their third child or their 40th birthday, whichever comes first.”

So this is your new state program that’s coming out. So, just assuming that this is a state level thing, what aspect of your state constitution let you go into the bedrooms of individuals, and determine how many kids they’ve had, and how many they can have, and what happens once you have that third kid?


Yeah, to give them the ability to castrate a male, because of age or the number of kids is idiotic. And then, you know, guys, I would love for someone to do a little research, maybe somebody listening right now can do the research and you can let us know. I would love to know on the list of really amazing, impressive people, how many of them were fathered by someone when they were longer down the list, like there was they had three siblings before them, right, because if you’re the fourth or greater sibling, you would not be allowed to exist under this new law, or if your father was 40 or older.

I feel like there’s probably a lot of really impressive people who have done a lot to contribute to society, who have made the world a better place, who have made America a better place. There’s probably some amazing inventors and creators and athletes, and go down the list, musicians, whatever it is, who were the fourth or greater child or their father was more than 40 when they were conceived.

How Should We Respond?

And under this law, were saying yeah, they would never have the opportunity to exist or to live if these individuals got their way, not only is this unconstitutional, this is literally evil in what we are discussing right now. And by the way, there’s a lot of faith and theologies, churches with their specific doctrines that would literally define this as being incredibly inherently evil in what it is. All that being said, there’s no way this is constitutional.


No way. And that’s the right thing to ask. As we’re getting more and more of these stories that are just more and more stupid and ludicrous, don’t just react with a visceral reaction that says that is the craziest thing I’ve ever heard, I can’t believe that that’s stupid. React with a constitutional mind that says okay, what is the basis or jurisdiction for this? Is there any constitutional basis of the federal Constitution? If not, if this is a state issue, is there any clause in the state Constitution for Pennsylvania that would allow the state to come in and determine how many kids you’ve had and whether you can be castrated as a male pass that point?

I mean, this is crazy stuff. But instead of getting bent out of shape over the craziest stories, remember they be principle-driven. Keep going back. And as you see all of these stories, ask the principal questions, ask the constitutional questions, because that’s the only way we’re going to get back to the Constitution being the basis of what we do is if we keep thinking about an asking the questions about it and say, no, it doesn’t fit, so it’s unconstitutional, and just throw it out the door at that point besides being just a stupid policy, just look at it from a constitutional viewpoint.


Yeah. And then short answer, of course, for people to remember your question, where in the Constitution is this authority given? Nowhere. It is not there at all, and our government is way outside its boundaries. The good news is we the people ultimately have the authority to put them back into their boundaries. And that’s what we should do as citizens. Got to take a quick break, guys, we’ll be back with more questions from the audience. This is Foundations of Freedom Thursday. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.


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Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive! With David Barton and Rick Green. And it’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the cradle of liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders’ library, where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it the Quickstart Guide to the Constitution, because in just a few hours through these videos, you will learn the citizen’s guide to America’s constitution, you’ll learn what you need to do to help save our constitutional republic. It’s fun, it’s entertaining, and it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at


Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man that bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Send your questions into [email protected], that’s [email protected] David and Tim, our next question is from John from Yorktown, Virginia. Yorktown, wait a minute, didn’t we win a war there or something? Yeah, it sounds familiar.

Anyway, John says, “Hey, Rick, David. And, Tim, I’m wondering if there’s ever been another point in American history when our political parties were so divided and tribal, if so, how do we overcome it? What is our way forward today? Thank you for your perspective.”

Okay. David, and Tim, John’s question, multiply it by a million or so people out there that are asking the same question. In fact, here’s another one from Opher in Plano, Texas, basically, same thing. “I’m a coach who leads Constitution Alive groups in Collin County, there have been discussions among the attendees about how split our country is today.

And I was wondering if the years before 1860 with slavery, was that the only issue splitting the country? Today, we have splits about immigration, taxation, systemic racism, defund the police, role of government in education, judicial supremacy, all of these things, are we in danger of sparking a second Civil War with all of this going on? How do we step back from the violence and return to a society built on respect, limited government, and individual liberty?”

So, guys, kind of both of those questions really representing a lot of other people out there asking the same thing.



So I would take the answer in two parts. One is have there been times when we’ve been less divided? And the second is, how do we get back to some unity on these things? So, to answer the first part, yes. There have been times we’ve been this divided many, many, many, many times and there are over issues we wouldn’t think about.

If I take you back into what’s called the first Great Awakening, which is the massive 40 year revival movement that led to the birth of America as an independent nation, if you go back to probably a key figure known in the first Great Awakening, George Whitfield, you look at George Whitfield, and all he’s doing is going across the country, just preaching Jesus to people, wants people to commit their life to Jesus, follow the Bible, become a true Christian believer, live it out. And he’s viciously attacked, including physically attacked by other churches who disagree with his doctrine. So he literally is out there.

And one of the reasons he was forced to do outdoor meetings was churches would not let him come in. Now, they eventually agreed to the fact that he needed outdoor meetings, because he’s having tens of thousands show up at his meetings when churches may be having a 50 or 100 show up in their buildings. So he needs a space, but it started that they wouldn’t let him in.

And literally, there’s records of other pastors telling their parishioners, when Whitfield comes to town, get up in the trees over him and pee on him and defecate on him and also throw rocks at him and hit him with potatoes and cabbages, throw everything you can. And so you read the writing back then…


Wow, David, that sounds like the pro-abortion people at the Texas legislature five or six years ago when they literally tried to sneak that stuff in to throw over the balcony on the Senator. So that was not a new idea?


It was not a new idea. This goes back to churches and pastors encouraging this in the Great Awakening. But that’s a great example. Look how polarized we are on abortion. Look at the violence that often goes against antiabortion people when they protest outside the clinics. We’ve talked often on how in Blue cities the cops are told to go arrest those people who are antiabortion, the people who are outside, who have a right to assemble, who have a right to free speech, who have a right to petition government for redress of grievances just cited three of the rights in the First Amendment, they have constitutional rights, and yet they are being arrested. That’s polarization.

You have the same kind of polarization that is going with any other issue you want to take. So this is not a new thing in America. There was actually polarization within the antislavery movement in America leading up to the Civil War. The antislavery movement split over whether we want immediate emancipation or gradual emancipation. And there were times it got violent as well.

Nothing New

And as you look, even at the antislavery versus the proslavery side, you see deaths that happen in that Elijah Lovejoy, Owen Lovejoy, the love joys in Illinois had been in Missouri, and they ran an antislavery newspaper there and the proslavery people burn them out three or four times and finally just murdered, assassinated them. And so the antislavery is that we’ve been polarized so many times in America.

And that’s just the reality. This is nothing new. We were polarized over the Vietnam War.

If you remember the deaths that occur in the Vietnam War, all the protests across campuses across the nation, what was happening with when soldiers, sailors would return to America from their service in Vietnam, what happened to them when they came into the airports? Oh, yeah, we have been a polarized people time after time after time. The best way you have to get around this is you have to have common principles that unite you.

And in the case of slavery, people were not united around the principle of equality of all human beings. There’s a clear teaching in scriptures were told in Galatians, in Colossians, all these other places, that in Christ we’re all one, there’s neither slave nor free, Jew or Greek, male or female. But instead of having that, well, that’s really not what we believe; actually, whites are worth more than blacks. And it’s the nonsense if you can get the common principles, if you can get the Constitution principles.

By the way, I’ll point out that one of the things common with the proslavery movement was they did not like the Declaration of Independence, whether it be a John C. Calhoun, who was a vice president under Jackson. I mean, he said the Declaration is really bad because it teaches that all people are equal. So if you could get together and say we believe in common principles, principles out of our founding documents, principles like equality, principles out of the Bible, you would do a lot better.

But what happens so often is we get caught into labels and names rather than ideas. And so going back to teaching ideas, which by the way, the Constitution Alive class being taught there in Collin County, you know, the question about that, that’s one way of getting around it.

Go back to what the Constitution actually says, unify around that, unify around the things that have made us great, and in the same way, the faith perspective, get back to the Bible and what it says about fundamental rights, what it says about fundamental moral issues, if we can divide moral issues based on what has proven over thousands of years to be the best moral position, proven by the Bible, demonstrated culture after culture, those are the only ways you get back to avoiding the polarization.

Teaching Civility

The other thing you can do is you can teach some element of civility. You can say, you know, I may not agree with, and this is really common among Christian denominations back in the day, Protestants especially. You know, Catholics are somewhat unified. But remember, on the ground there are over 600 Sabbatarian Christian denominations in America. Now, Sabbatarian means you believe that Saturday is the Sabbath rather than Sunday.

So in America, there’s over 600 Christian denominations who believe the Sabbath is on Saturday. I’m not talking about one denomination. We’re talking about 600 different denominations. The key word for Protestants is the word protest, and we tend to disagree with everybody on everything else and we create new denominations all the time. If we could say, okay, you know what, we agree on 90% of the stuff, we disagree on 10%, but let’s focus on the 90%, not the 10%, that would help a lot.

So if you could get to the point where you can have civil discourse, you actually can disagree with other people without hating them, or having to beat them into submission to your viewpoint, that would help. And that’s what we saw at times, for example, when the first Great Awakening did finally take root. In the early years, it was polarizing. In the latter years, it was unifying. And you really need to get the point to where the enough people catch the principles and understand the big issues, understand the big ideas that they get unified on it. That may be what’s happening with what we see at school boards and other things.

You know, there are going to be parents who did disagree over mask or, etc. But they’re not disagreeing over that school should not be mandating and telling me what I do with my kid, and telling me what I can do with teaching race or whatever. I think we’re finding a lot of unity over that. Even though there’s a lot of disagreement within the movement, there’s still more than unifies than divides. And so those historically been the keys to kind of get people pulled together.

Forced Sterilizations, National Division, And More – On Foundations Of Freedom


Alright, fellows, well, we are out of time, we didn’t get to anywhere near all of your questions, so we’ve got a stack of them here. We’ll try to do more of those next Thursday. But please send us new ones as well [email protected] is the email, [email protected] It can be about the Founding Fathers, about history, about application of a particular principle or like today, some of the questions about some of the crazy stuff going on, and whether or not it fits within the proper role of government.

If you really want to learn the proper role of government, go to and get one of our Constitution classes, we’ve got multiple options for you. Our latest version, this new one this year is called Biblical Citizenship in Modern America, and you can become a biblical citizen by taking that class and applying that in your community. And you can host that class as well in your home or at your church, wherever you’d like to, we have thousands of classes taking place across the country.

It’s super encouraging to see so many people getting involved, deciding to be a part of the answer, not just sit on the sidelines and complain about what’s happening on the field, but actually get in the game. And when I say game, I mean the game of citizenship, the game of being free, really the game of life. So I hope that you will be a part of that as well. Check it all out at We sure appreciate you listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.