Foundations Of Freedom Part Four- The Bible And Civil Justice: Foundations of Freedom is our latest television program. We are so excited to get share it with you here on WallBuilders Live! In this series, will be discussing The Founders Bible, what kind of influence the Bible had on America, and we also discuss the foundations of law! Tune in now for the fourth part of this five-part series!

Air Date: 08/29/2019

Guest: Michele Bachmann and Dr. Carol Swain

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

RICK:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, always doing that from a Biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker and President of WallBuilders, and my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator, national speaker, and author.

This week we’ve got a special series for you, sharing some of the television program Foundations of Freedom. We’ve been at it all week.

And, today we’re gonna pick up the conclusion of yesterday’s program, which was Congresswoman Michele Bachmann and David Barton on foundations of law.  Then, we’ll dive into another program with Dr. Carol Swain on the Bible and civil justice. But, first we’re gonna pick up where we left off yesterday with Michele Bachmann and David Barton talking about the foundations of law.

Foundations of Law

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Think of what that means “Separation of Church and State.” What did it look like to our early fathers and mothers?

DAVID:

It was keeping God in the middle of everything; but, you did not allow the leaders of the civil government to tell you what church to attend, what your conscience beliefs were, what you would be penalized with. I actually have the laws–

MICHELE BACHMANN:

“Penalty” is the key word because now civil government would penalize me if I didn’t believe the way they wanted me to. And, guess what. That is not civil government’s jurisdiction; it’s just only God.

DAVID:

Only God. Let’s roll it forward 300 years. They objected to the government telling you what words you could and couldn’t use when you prayed. They objected to the government telling you what your beliefs of conscience would and wouldn’t be, as well as what you would do in follow in those.

The Founders also objected to government saying, “You can’t do these religious exercises in public but have to do them in private.” All the things that are happening today that government’s doing– and government’s now coercing conscience. Those are religious decisions.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

That’s right, because what you’ve just done, David, is tied what’s happened here in America in the last few months, with what the Founders foresaw in the Declaration of Independence.

Inalienable Rights

DAVID:

Yes.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Because the Declaration of Independence made it very, very clear that governments were instituted among Men, why? To secure for you, me, and all of our posterity our inalienable rights. In other words, government doesn’t have the jurisdiction to give me the right of my conscience.

DAVID:

Well, let’s go back to Jefferson, because Jefferson got the letter, as you said, from the Danbury Baptists. Now, why is it significant that he received it from the Baptists? Because Jefferson lived in a state of Virginia that had a State established Church; it was the Anglican Church, the same official church in Great Britain.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

This is before we became America, a nation.

DAVID:

Yes.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

The different states had their own religion.

DAVID:

They had established churches; that’s right.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

A lot of adults don’t realize this, that they had a state religion.

DAVID:

And, in Virginia you had you had the Anglicans jailing, killing, and imprisoning Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Quakers because you aren’t doing the Anglican thing.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Yet, you were forced to pay for it and violate your conscience .

DAVID:

Yes, everybody is forced to pay for the Anglican Church. That’s right. And, Jefferson is the guy who stepped in and said, “No, all denominations are equal in Virginia.” And so, 1776–

To Secure Religious Liberty

MICHELE BACHMANN:

And that’s so huge that Jefferson said on his tombstone–I mean, think of what you want on your tombstone, what I want my tombstone. He said, rather than putting on that he was president of the United States, he wanted written on his tombstone that he was the one who was involved with religious liberty–

DAVID:

Yes.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

–to secure religious liberty for every man.

DAVID:

It’s not a secular move. He wasn’t making things secular.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

That’s right.

DAVID:

He was saying, “Government, leave them alone.” And so, when he becomes president of the United States, the Danbury Baptists are in a state that still has a state-established denomination, even at that point. While he’s president, they still had it.

Connecticut did not disestablish their denomination until 1818; so, we’re talking 1801, that Danbury Baptist wrote Jefferson and said, “We’re really concerned.”

I mean, we are guaranteed our free exercise of religion; but, that’s a government guarantee; and, it is not supposed to be that. That guarantee came from God, not from government.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Recently this has been a big, big issue.

DAVID:

Let’s take that, because God establishes jurisdictions.

17 Things

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Areas of authority.

DAVID:

He said, “Here’s what the family does. Then, this is for the church. Here’s what civil government does.”

Now, within civil government, these are the areas the civil government can do. So, in that area, the people become the authority in that area. God’s already established the fences.

Now, how things are gonna run inside that fence, we determine. So, we come up with the Constitution, We the People. And, it says, “Federal Government, there’s a lot of governments out here: local, school board, city, state governments.

“Here’s the deal. We’re telling you, the federal government, there are 17 things you can do. Out of all the tens of millions of things–”

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Under the Constitution.

DAVID:

Yes. “We’re giving you a constitution; that Constitution says that you can do 17 things and nothing else. Everything else belongs to us.”

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Okay, now that’s a really big point.

DAVID:

It’s a huge point.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Because now government has irrigated to itself so much more than that limitation.

DAVID:

That’s right.

Pick Up a Copy

MICHELE BACHMANN:

So, again, we want to encourage all of your viewers to pick up a copy of the Constitution and the Declaration. You’ll be floored when you see the president is only told to faithfully execute the laws on the books.

DAVID:

Who makes the laws?

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Congress.

DAVID:

Oh.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

I am one of the privileged 435 members of the House of Representatives. We make the laws because that’s what our Constitution said.

DAVID:

That’s right. We the People told you, “You guys make the laws.”

It Begins With an Understanding of God

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Let’s rightfully understand our government. It begins from an understanding of a holy God.

DAVID:

That’s right.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Then it begins with that understanding of God, then the people of this country wrote down in a Constitution, for our protection, the limits of what our government can do.

DAVID:

By the way, let me press that for just a minute. Why did we write it down? Because that was not what they did in Great Britain.

To this day, they still do not have a written constitution there. But, you had all these Bible-minded people that came to America. And, as you look at the early sermons–for example, Thomas Hooker, one of the founders of Connecticut, preached a great sermon on this: Why do we write everything down?

By the way, Reverend Nathaniel Ward gave them the first written Bill of Rights with 100 hundred rights that are protected from government. Why’d they do that?

Why Write it Down?

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Why not? Otherwise you don’t know.

DAVID:

Well, but see, the reason they did was because that’s the Bible. When God says, “Hey, I’ve got a nation and am writing the laws with My own finger.” Then, Moses wrote down the laws of Moses. And, every king of Israel after that, when they were anointed, were to write down with their own hand every law so that they had something to go back to.

So, we have a written constitution to ensure every individual citizen can go back to it and say, “Whoa. This is your jurisdiction written down right here: Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 8.”

MICHELE BACHMANN:

And, that’s why you have lawyers who go in and contend over one word or one comma, because it has meaning.

DAVID:

It’s written.

Deconstruction

MICHELE BACHMANN:

That’s why there’s this whole post-modern idea called “deconstruction,” that words are meaningless.

DAVID:

Yeah.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

That’s the whole philosophy of relativism. We aren’t about relativism.

DAVID:

We’re fixed.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

We’re about a fixed, moral absolutes because if you want success, you need to have a fixed, moral absolute. For instance, if you and I make a contract together, it protects us.

DAVID:

That’s right. It has to be fixed.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

You lose the most important thing you have: your liberty, your ability to be able to construct contracts, property law, tort law. Whatever it is, you lose that benefit of certainty.

DAVID:
Yes.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

So, you have a God who is the example of law. Then, you have a written Constitution.  And, under our Constitution, you have an executive who enforces the law.

The Responsibilities, All Written Down

DAVID:
That’s right, all written down.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

The legislative, who writes the law.

DAVID:

All written down.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Then, the judicial interprets it.

DAVID:

That’s right.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

But, the judicial can’t be the legislative. The legislative can’t be the judicial or the executive.

DAVID:

That’s right.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

And, we see that problem. Just one example we’ve heard recently was that our president may decide that he, by himself, with a pen and maybe a phone, is going to change all of America’s immigration law by himself. In other words, he will write the law himself.

DAVID:

And that’s not his jurisdiction.

The President’s Job

MICHELE BACHMANN:

By his own pronouncement; but, jurisdiction won’t let him. And, that’s a denial of Article 2, which says to the president, “You must faithfully execute the laws on the books.”

Well, if the law is not on the books, you can’t execute it.

DAVID:

And, you can’t make it. Only Congress can make it.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

But, if there are laws, like for instance, “marriage is between a man and a woman,” and the president said, “I’m not going to execute that law. I don’t think it’s constitutional.” Well, he is not the Supreme Court.

The court is the court. They’re the ones who need to decide if marriage is between a man and a woman. That’s what people wrote it as.

You see, it impacts every person watching this show.

DAVID:

It does.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Every person’s life is impacted by jurisdiction. What’s your area of authority? Because when somebody oversteps their bound, you lose.

DAVID:

You lose your liberties and freedoms.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

And, that’s why the Founders said, “This is everything.”

DAVID:

I want to go into the chamber where you serve.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

The House of Representatives, Washington D.C., the U.S. Capitol.

Surrounded by History’s Lawgivers

DAVID:

Twenty-three lawgivers are honored, because that is the place where the law comes out of: the House. So, you have 23 lawgivers, and they’re all side-profile views except one. And, that’s–

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Moses. And, can I just say, I have literally had tears come to my eyes. I’ve given speeches on this on the House floor. I stand in that chamber surrounded by the greatest lawgivers in history: Solan, Suleiman, Justinian–

DAVID:
Hammurabi.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

All of the lawgivers of history, like you said, in their side profile. But, above the main double doors, the doors that the president United States enters when he’s going to give the State of the Union address, above that door, there is a full-on, full-face view of only one lawgiver; and, that is of Moses.

Share a veteran’s story

We Want To Hear Your Vet Story

Rick:

Hey friends! If you have been listening to WallBuilders Live for very long at all, you know how much we respect our veterans and how appreciative we are of the sacrifice they make to make our freedoms possible. One of the ways that we love to honor those veterans is to tell their stories here on WallBuilders Live.  Once in awhile, we get an opportunity to interview veterans that have served on those front lines that have made incredible sacrifices have amazing stories that we want to share with the American people.

One of the very special things we get to do is interview World War II veterans. You’ve heard those interviews here on WallBuilders Live, from folks that were in the Band of Brothers, to folks like Edgar Harrell that survived the Indianapolis to so many other great stories you heard on WallBuilders Live.

You have friends and family that also served.  If you have World War II veterans in your family that you would like to have their story shared here on WallBuilders Live, please e-mail us at [email protected]  Give us a brief summary of the story and we’ll set up an interview. Thanks so much for sharing here on WallBuilders Live!

Moses and the Moral Law

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Because we know a holy God gave to Moses the moral law, the Ten Commandments, the law upon which every other law has descended and upon which no other law, if it violates that moral law, could stand.

DAVID:

Yeah.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Because that is the ultimate law. How interesting that the face of Moses looks down upon the speaker of the House.

DAVID:

That’s right.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

The speaker stands at the dais and looks up at Moses. So, too, the president of the United States, when he delivers his address to the nation, members of Congress, Supreme Court, ambassadors, and all the heads of state–this is a very important moment in the United States when our president does that–he looks directly into the face of Moses, because we understand in this country that we are a nation of laws, not men.

DAVID:

But, when you become secular, you ignore jurisdictions, those jurisdictions given by the lawgiver of the Bible, given by Moses through God.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

And, it’s so sad. It degrades us as a  nation.

DAVID:

It does.

A Nation is Built Up By His Law

MICHELE BACHMANN:

It degrades our liberties and the greatness of a nation. Further, that’s what God understood from Old Testament times: the greatness of a nation is built up by His law.

DAVID:

That’s right. This is the Ten Commandments, what we say Moses the great lawgiver gave. He gave lots of laws, 613, but also the Ten Commandments God gave to him.

This particular copy is the copy that went to the U.S. Supreme Court case in 1980, called Stone v. Graham.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Yes.

DAVID:

This is the case in which the Supreme Court said, “Oh, you can’t let kids see this. They might obey things like: don’t kill, steal, or lie.” The court said, “If kids were to see this, they might obey it.”

Now, what’s interesting is Moses gave this in 1440 B.C. There’s one other lawgiver in the chamber there that precedes Moses. And, that is Hammurabi in 1772 B.C.

Now, this case, Stone v. Graham, we were involved a lot of the Ten Commandments cases when they were really popular 20 to 25 years ago. And, as these were hanging in courthouses–

MICHELE BACHMANN:

The effort was to remove them from everything. Remember, the ACLU and other organizations, their goal was to strip out of the United States, a sense from all Americans, especially children, to not understand the moral law.

In a Courthouse or a Churchhouse

DAVID:

That’s right, or the basis of them. And, it’s interesting; in America it was always easier to find the Ten Commandments hanging in a courthouse than in a churchhouse.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

That’s true.

DAVID:

This is the basis of civil law. Inside the U.S. Supreme Court, there are more than 59 depictions of the Ten Commandments inside the Supreme Court.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

I’ve seen it.

DAVID:

So, with all this, as we’re going through these cases, the court said, “We could let you leave the Ten Commandments up if you surrounded it with other documents that influenced American law. For example, if you were to put up the Ten Commandments and the code of Hammurabi and Justinian’s Code, then we could leave it.”

Well, first off, that told me they knew nothing about history, because they think this is too religious? The code of Justinian, one of the lawgivers in the House, begins with the phrase “In the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

MICHELE BACHMANN:

{laughter}

The Code of Hammurabi

DAVID:

You’ve got trouble with this, and you’re telling me to hang Justinian? And, then they say, “Oh, it’s got to be documents that influenced American history, like common Hammurabi’s Code, because he’s 350 years before Moses.” Time out.

They didn’t discover Hammurabi’s Code until 1901. It was not translated to 1904. I don’t think that had much influence.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

That’s a little tough.

DAVID:

See, what’s interesting is Why did the Code of Hammurabi not survive yet the Code of Moses did? It is really easy. Let me let me read to you two laws from Hammurabi.

There are 282 laws in his code. It says “Law Number Two: if anyone bring an accusation against the man and the accused go to the river and leap in the river, if he’s sinks in the river, his accuser she’ll take possession of his house. But, if the river proves that the accused is not guilty and he escape unhurt, then he who had brought the accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall take possession of the house that belonged to the accuser.”

See, that’s why the Code of Hammurabi did not survive.

God’s Law is Universal

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Where in the world, ever in United States law, have we ever seen any of this replicated? It’s nonsense.

DAVID:

This is what we use, and they’re saying we can’t acknowledge it. See, this establishes jurisdictions, is part of God’s law, and is universal. I don’t care what age you live in or how far you think you’ve evolved, this applies just like it did 6000 years ago, just like it will 6000 years from now.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

And, tell me which parent wants their child to steal, kill, go and lie about people, or desire something that belongs ot somebody else

DAVID:

Yes, exactly. “But that’s religious–separation of Church and State.”

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Well, that’s right. But, what’s amazing is that this is the key for happiness.

DAVID:

That’s right.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

It has been throughout all time and still is today. Again, it comes down to jurisdiction, areas of authority. There is not one person who’s watching this interaction between us, that doesn’t have an area of jurisdiction, because God in His love for each individual–again, it goes back to how God doesn’t see us in groups.

Action Items

Think of how amazing a God is, that He loves each one of us so much, that we have dignity, worth, a voice. In a system of government like the United States, He has given the maximum amount of voice to the individual and yet allowed us to be able to live together at peace among all men.

What a beautiful thing. And that’s why we must contend for this.

DAVID:

That’s right.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

We can’t let it go.

DAVID:

That’s our action items, because if you’re gonna understand jurisdiction, you have to understand God’s the one who established them. Then, she’ll understand how they work. Read the Constitution.

That’s what lays out so many of those jurisdictions. Plus, it tells us what the jurisdictions are. I mean that’s the starting point.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

It’s black and white, as clear as it could possibly be: Article One, Article Two, Article Three. How long would it take someone to read it?

DAVID:

Maybe 20 minutes.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Okay, 20 minutes. Everybody can do that. Absolutely everybody has time to do that. But, before you do that, take 10 minutes and read the Declaration of Independence.

That’s kind of the whole philosophy behind the Constitution.

DAVID:

It shows the principles.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

You got to read that first.

The Declaration: the Foundation

DAVID:

If you don’t get the Declaration, you don’t get the foundation.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Because, it puts meat on the bones of jurisdiction, areas of authority. But, there’s something that even backs up before the Declaration, before the Constitution. And, that is–

DAVID:

Well, it’s actually the Bible, because in that jurisdiction that’s there in the Constitution, you have–like the three branches of government you mentioned, that comes directly out of the Bible.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

What’s that Scripture?

DAVID:

It is Isaiah 33:22.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Everybody has to read Isaiah 33:22.

DAVID:

It says: “The Lord our God is our Lawgiver, our Judge and our King.” That sounds like judiciary, legislative, and executive.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Yeah.

DAVID:

And, interesting enough, John Adams himself said–well, not only that. But, the reason that we separated the powers to have checks and balances is Jeremiah 17:9, which most folks have never read. The Founders’ Bible has got all these explanations from the Founders on the Bible verses they used.

Learn These Things Well

So, you start by reading the Constitution; read the Declaration; read the Bible, which includes the Ten Commandments. Learn these things and get to where  you know them.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

Something tells me we’re going to be talking a little more about separation of powers. I think will be very important.

DAVID:

It is key.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

This is so great. This has been a great, great time. Thank you so much.

DAVID:

Well, these are the documents that are part of our foundations of freedom. And, that’s exactly what we’ve got to learn and know.

MICHELE BACHMANN:

We’ve got to work to do; and, we’re going to do it.

Biographical Sketches 

Hi friends! This is Tim Barton of WallBuilders.This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. I know, oftentimes as parents, we’re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

If you remember back in the Bible, the Book of Hebrews it has the Faith Hall of Fame, where they outlined the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity and our faith as well.

I wanted to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called, “The Courageous Leaders Collection” and this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers.

There’s a second collection called, “Heroes of History” in this collection you read about people like Benjamin Franklin, Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, the list goes on and on.

This is a great collection for your young person to have and read. And, it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at WallBuilders.com.

Where Did America’s Founding Principles Come From?

MAN:

America’s Founders designed a justice system unlike any the world had ever seen. They valued and protected the rights of the individual, even over government agenda. Where did these principles come from?

What influenced their distinct ideas on civil justice? Where do they fit in the world today? Join historian David Barton with special guests Glenn Beck, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann, and more, as they explore the America our Founding Fathers envisioned.

What if America’s story is bolder, more colorful, and more compelling than you ever imagined? This is Foundations of Freedom.

DAVID:

Welcome to Foundations of Freedom where we look back at important aspects of our common heritage, about which most folks today have been told absolutely nothing.

Joining me today is Dr. Carol Swain.

Welcome Dr. Carol Swain

Dr. Swain has a remarkable story, having come from poverty, being a high school dropout, to now being at Vanderbilt University, a professor of political science and law. She previously taught at Princeton University and has a number of bestselling books. Also, Dr. Swain has been cited numerous times at the U.S. Supreme Court.

And, I love this book Be the People, like “We the People;” it’s Be the People. Dr. Swain, thank you for being with us today. We appreciate it.

CAROL SWAIN:

It’s a pleasure to be here. I’m so excited about the opportunity today to discuss the Bible and civil justice. A lot of people probably don’t know that the Bible has a lot to say about civil justice; and so, today we’re going to unpack that some.

DAVID:

You’re right. Most folks have no clue. They think the Bible is just a spiritual book.

They have no clue that it built most of the institutions that we enjoy and experience in America today.

CAROL SWAIN:

It speaks to every aspect of our lives.

DAVID:

It does.

A Superior Court System

CAROL SWAIN:

And, it looks like we have a question from a viewer here: “From what I see on the news, it just seems like the United States has such a greater court system than any other country. But, since our system was built by European settlers and customs, how did we end up with a better model?”

DAVID:

Great question.

CAROL SWAIN:

Great question.

DAVID:

And, it’s because we saw the abuses of those European courts, that we didn’t want to copy them in America. They had so many bad types of courts and bad experiences, that when they came to America, they didn’t want that. And, it’s significant that even though we are descendants of the British colonies, in the Declaration of Independence, we were often taught in schools that the reason we separated was taxation without representation.

CAROL SWAIN:

Yes.

DAVID:

That’s what we hear.

CAROL SWAIN:

Yes, right.

A Greater Grievance

DAVID:

The problem is, there are 27 grievances there. And, of the 27, four of the grievances deal with judicial abuses. Four times more often than taxation without representation, they said, “We don’t like the courts being out of control and doing the wrong thing.”

And, in Europe they weren’t after protecting the rights of individuals. Both Church courts and State courts protected the government. And, they were government-agenda arms, political arms.

In America, we said, “No, we want justice and the rights of the individuals.” Therefore, in our Bill of Rights, we said, “We’re going to do our judiciary right.” So, in the Due Process Clauses, from the Fourth to the Eighth Amendment, we gave all sorts of things to make it really hard for government to knock off an individual.

CAROL SWAIN:

Right.

DAVID:

You can’t use self incrimination but have the right to an attorney, to compel witnesses to come, etc. I mean, all these things to make it hard for government and make sure we protected individual rights.

CAROL SWAIN:

You know one of the things that I notice about Americans, being a political science professor and talking with various people, is that too many of us don’t know the Bill of Rights.

The Palladium

DAVID:

You’re right. And, that is our protection. You know, the Founding Fathers, when they gave us the Bill of Rights, said that was our safeguard; the “Palladium” is what they called it.

That is the Palladium into which every citizen can resort for protection.

CAROL SWAIN:

In fact, the anti-federalists fought to have the Bill of Rights included. And so, it was necessary to amend the Constitution early on to get those individual protections.

DAVID:

And, the mentality of those anti-federalists is Government’s okay; but it can become too big and do the wrong thing.

CAROL SWAIN:

Do you mean like now?

DAVID:

Like now. Exactly right. That’s exactly where I was headed, because the Bill of Rights is to limit the government.

And, the courts have taken it today and said, “Oh, under the Bill of Rights, kid you can’t say ‘God’ at graduation.” No, no, no. The Bill of Rights was to keep the government from telling you couldn’t say “God” at graduation.

It was to protect individual rights. And so, the Bill of Rights has now become a limitation on the people, rather than a limitation on government. That’s a reverse of what it was designed and intended to be.

CAROL SWAIN:

So, David, how can We the People turn that around?

DAVID:

You know, part of it is, we have to go back to knowing our history and where these sources of ideas came from. Psalms 11:3 says, “If the foundations should be destroyed, what do the righteous do?”

Foundations Of Freedom: The Bible And Civil Justice

RICK:

We’re out of time for today, folks, you’ve been listening to Foundations of Freedom with David Barton. That guest that you were just listening to was Dr. Carol Swain. Earlier in the program today, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann.

All of it available right now at WallBuildersLive.com. We’ll pick up tomorrow with the conclusion with Dr. Carol Swain and David Barton on “The Bible and Civil Justice.” You’re listening to Foundations of Freedom here on WallBuilders Live!