Free Speech and More! Foundations of Freedom Thursday

Free Speech and More! Foundations of Freedom Thursday:Â It”s Foundations of Freedom Thursday, a special day of the week where we get to answer questions from you, the listeners! Always answering your questions from constitutional principles! Tune in today as we answer questions on the freedom of speech, curriculum in public schools, the Supreme Court and immigration, and so much more, right here on WallBuilders Live!

Air Date:Â 08/23/2018

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Intro:

President Thomas Jefferson said, “I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society, but the people themselves. And if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.”

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! We”re talking about today”s hottest topics on policy, faith, the culture, the Constitution, all these different areas. But we”re always looking at these things from a biblical and historical perspective. It’s so important to have that right perspective, actually go back to that history, to go back to the Bible and what it says about these things.

We’re here with David Barton, he”s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders. Tim Barton”s with us, he”s a national speaker and pastor, and president of WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator.

You can find out more about us at WallBuildersLive.com. That’s got a listing of all of our stations across the country. It’s got past programs over the last few weeks. And then it’s also got information about us as hosts and news that’s happening in the culture right now.

Then you can go to our other website, WallBuilders.com, that’s our main site and there’s a wealth of information there. You can download things off the internet there. You can actually get some fantastic DVD programs and workbooks for your Sunday school class, for your home school. Get that information and get it into the hearts and minds of the people that you know and it will help us restore America’s Constitution and protect this constitutional republic.

We call today, Thursday’s, a Foundation of Freedom Thursday’s. And the reason we do that is because we dive into these foundational areas, but we let you pick which areas we’re going to go into. So you send the questions in. And then we dive into it. Send those questions to [email protected], that’s [email protected]. And we’re going to get to as many as we can today. We”ve got a lot of them to get to. David, Tim, you guys ready?

Who Gets the First Question?

David:

Yes I’m ready. And I get to ask the first question today, Rick.

Tim:

Wait, are you allowed to ask the first question?

Rick:

No, wait a minute. You can’t– no, I’m supposed to ask the questions. You”ve got the answers – I just have questions.

David:

I’m claiming that right.

Tim:

Wait a second, I just asked the first question. I win! I win!

David:

That was good.

Tim:

I asked you a question. I got one in first.

Rick:

Alright.

TIm:

You may ask the second question though.

David:

So, I’m going to start with the second question. Start with the second question? I’m going to ask the second question. Here we go.

Rick:

We”re ready. I think.

Where Do You Draw the Line With Free Speech and the First Amendment?

David:

Okay, so here’s my question. The First Amendment has been in the news a fair bit lately. Freedom of speech, how far is too far? What can you say? What can you not say? Campuses are having debates, shutting down certain speakers and people, shutting down certain groups. We’re seeing lawsuits come out of that.

So, having said that, from where you guys sit knowing both history and the Constitution, how far is too far with free speech and the First Amendment? Where do you draw the line? What can you not say from a constitutional standpoint? What”s right and wrong?

Tim:

The only thing I recall, constitutionally, is that the freedom of speech shall not be infringed. With that being said, knowing some of the heated debates that went between the very people who were part of the committee, or part of the Declaration, part of the Constitution, how much there was the vitriol and the hatred and their side cussing the other side, and what newspaper articles said, I don’t see hardly any boundaries apart from what they viewed as maybe even like a moral decency.

Where, maybe a newspaper you weren’t going to have nudity, you were going to have curse words. So, things that were considered morally offensive. But that wasn’t even constitutionally, that was more a cultural concept–

Rick:

Yeah.

Tim:

–or a construct put around it. Constitutionally, I just don’t see any details spelled out specifically other than we certainly can acknowledge the yelling “fire” in a crowded room, those kinds of things.

David:
Explain that. What do you mean by that?

When Government Can Constrain

Tim:

So, the idea, it very much goes back to the principles outlined in the Declaration that we believe that God gave rights to men and government”s job is to protect the rights that God gave.

So, one of the reasons that the government can put constraints on the people is to protect the rights of others. If you are doing something to violate the rights of somebody else, the government can come in and say, “Wait a second, you can’t practice cannibalism, you can’t do human sacrifice.” If you’re doing something that is going to infringe on someone else’s rights then that would be wrong.

So, one of the things that they’ve determined in speech is even the idea of going into a movie theater and yelling “fire”, something that that could be detrimental, it could be dangerous, weather because it’s like the boy that cried wolf because nobody”s going to listen anymore or because maybe there’s a max exodus and somebody gets hurt. There’s a couple sides to this, but there are certain things they’ve determined that that actually is– and I was going to say “offensive” and that’s really not quite what it is, but it’s a violation of the responsibility of the individual in their freedom of speech.

There certainly are some level of constraints, but not the way that most people perceive it to be today. Because certainly there’s no right to not be offended. As much as I might dislike what somebody else says, they constitutionally have the right to say it. That’s kind of my perception. Rick, what do you think?

Rick:

I think you’re spot on. I would throw in, of course, slander, and libel, and lying about people in there as well. But even in both of our examples I think those are state laws and state enforcement. I don’t think there’s a federal– there’s not a constitutional specific there for, “Okay, you have free speech except in these examples.”

Now, of course, if a state passes a law saying you can’t insight a riot and you can’t libel someone and someone then challenges it and says, “Well, the Constitution gives me the right to do that. Then it ends up at the federal level to say, “No, that’s not the proper protection of the First Amendment.” But I think in general you’re exactly right. It’s free speech and then if the states have limitations for protection for mass chaos, or rioting, or libel, that’s a different animal.

The Facebook Constitution?

David:

So, let me propose a scenario to you guys. Am I violating the First Amendment of the Constitution if I invite my friends to go with me to a gun safety class and while I’m at the gun safety class I want to have a session to talk about the Constitution? Does that cross the line?

Tim:

Well, as far as constitutionally, no. There might be private organizations that have businesses that maybe you do ads on and they might view that as offensive language and therefore it violates their perception of speech. But, constitutionally, no.

Rick:

It depends on the Constitution you’re talking about. The U.S. Constitution or the Facebook constitution? Because Facebook has now decided that, yeah, we can limit what you say. Now grant it, that’s a private entity and a private website. But boy, I’m on the receiving end of that one right now.

David:

But, Rick, I’ll point out they”re a private entity, a private website, but they hold themself out as a public forum.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

And because they hold themselves out as a public forum, they’re subject to a different set of laws than just a private business. They make themselves available to all, etc.. And that’s why they can get called up on hearings before Congress. That’s why you”re seeing the security stuff. When you hold yourself out as a public entity then that’s a whole different set of laws. You’re not the government, but you’re holding yourself out there.

And for folks who don’t know, Rick did that on Facebook and Facebook shut him down. Rick, 2-3 times a year we’ll invite people to go with him out to Nevada to Front Sight where they have gun safety and gun training courses. Good stuff to have. So, Rick, while you were out there you have a constitution class and you cover things from the Constitution. Very similar to the DVD series we have called Constitution Alive.

Get Some Special Training!

Rick:

Right.

David:

So, for inviting people to go to a gun safety training, and to sit and talk about the Constitution, Facebook has shut you down. They will not run your ad, they have totally turned it off. So, let me just say – anybody who wants to go to Front Sight with Rick for gun safety, gun training, and have Constitution discussions and classes out there, Rick, where do they need to go?

Rick:

Well, they can go to RickGreen.com. And you’ll find this funny, David, because now– and I thought maybe they were stopping my ads on that because of it being a gun class and a Constitution class.

But they’ve stopped the ads for even inviting people to go to Colonial Williamsburg with us where we might shoot an old musket, maybe. But there’s literally– it”s stepping back in time and just finding out what the world was like in 1776. Literally taking people on history trips. And Facebook has decided that is “political advertising”. It is really crazy how far they’ve gone with this thing. And they do have– I’m applying to be approved, it’s kind of a crazy deal that you have to apply to be approved to teach people history now, or advertize history on Facebook. And they say they’re doing it to prevent meddling in elections from Russia and all this kind of stuff.

I have no idea how my trip to Colonial Williamsburg to share people– to share the history with people has anything to do with an election. But that’s what they’re doing. So, thank you, David, I appreciate that. And folks that want to go to that website, RickGreen.com, and share that, that’ll help replace those Facebook ads that we were going to run.

Quick break. We’ll be right back. It’s Foundations of Freedom Thursday. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Outro:

Abraham Lincoln said, “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts. Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

Front Sight Handgun Training.

Rick:

Imagine being able to study the Constitution while also getting world class training on how to defend yourself and your family with a handgun. I want to personally invite you to come spend the weekend with our family as we get expert handgun defense training from Front Sight Firearms Training Institute during the day and then provide a constitution crash course in the evening. The Barton”s and the Green”s had an amazing time doing this with many of you back in April, so we’re headed back in the fall.

Visit RickGreen.com today for the dates and the details. We”re giving away this $1,000 course for free to the first 100 supporters of WallBuilders Live that register for the course at RickGreen.com. Come learn the real purpose of the Second Amendment and why the Founding Fathers believed it was so important for we citizens to be armed.

If you’re a marksman, or you’ve never held a gun in your life, I can promise you that you will leave this training with improved skills and the confidence to protect your family. It’s going to be a great time of fun, fellowship, learning, and sending a lot of lead downrange.

And the $1,000 course registration is completely waived for the first 100 WallBuilders Live supporters to register. You pay for your travel and ammo, but we’re giving you the course for free as a gift to our supporters. I look forward to seeing you on the range this fall. For all the details visit RickGreen.com today.

Intro:

Thomas Jefferson said, “The constitutions of most of our states, and of the United States, assert that all power is inherent in the people that they may exercise it by themselves that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. That they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press.”

Rick:

We”re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us on this Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Taking your questions. Send them into [email protected]. And this first question we’re going to get to, no, I take that back, David had the first question. So, second question we”re going to get too–

Tim:

No, he had the second question, I asked the first question.

Rebuffed At A High School

Rick:

Right. Tim had to be first. That’s right. Tim had the first question. David and the second question. Well, guess what? Milt has the third question. Alright, we don’t know Milt. He’s not normally on the program, but he’s on the program today. And actually he says he was rebuffed last year trying to make a presentation on the Constitution at Canton High School. Now, this is kind of a theme, guys. People are trying to stop the Constitution from being taught.

He said, “I know Rick is proud of getting HB1776 on the books in Texas. But I can find no reference to it in the statutes concerning public education in Texas. Where is it? Well, Milt, I will jump on this one right now because I want to help you on this. HB1776, by the way, is the law we passed way, way, back when I was a legislator and it creates Celebrate Freedom Week here in Texas where every school in Texas is required by law to teach the Constitution and teach the Declaration. They”ve got to do it once a year during Celebrate Freedom Week.

And, Milt, I’m going to respond to your e-mail with a link for the exact statutes where it’s found, but it’s in the education code and in the administrative code. And, yes, those schools are required to do it. If citizens will call their local school districts – not just in Texas – I think there”s about five or six states now that have passed this.

And we’ve got five or six that are considering it. If your state has passed this then you as a citizen need to help us. You need to call that local school district and say, “Hey, what are you doing for Celebrate Freedom Week? Are you teaching the constitution this week? It’s in the law.” And you go to RickGreen.com and click on “Celebrate Freedom Week” and it’ll give you those links to the actual law. And it will also show you what’s happening in your state on this.

So, sorry, David, Tim, I jumped in. I don’t usually answer the questions, but this one, obviously, is a personal passion of mine.

We”ve Got Them In Laws, But They Need To Be In the Curriculum

David:

No, that’s one you should have answered it. And I’m going to jump on top of that, Rick, by adding a little more. Because when we were doing the standards for social studies and history in Texas one of the things that I had them do on the board was, alright, guys we’ve got a lot of laws out there that address education. We have laws that say that Celebrate Freedom Week has to be observed every year for third through 12th grade, we have laws saying that in sex education you have to teach abstinence only curriculum, we have laws that talk about certain character traits that are to be taught. Â

So, my deal was we”ve got them in laws, but they need to be in the curriculum. So, what we did was we went through and found the laws that related to this and we put them in the standards. And every school in Texas that’s a public school, government funded school, has to teach according to the standards. So, at the very first of every section from the third grade to the 12th grade we start out with Celebrate Freedom Week. Every grade level– and we put the law in there, and we showed the teachers, “This is what you have to do.”

So, if you’re getting resistance 1) they’re not following the law. 2) they’re not following the educational standards and that’s required. Both of those are required. So, you’ve got plenty of information that you can work with on that Milt.

The Whole Reason We Have Public Education

Rick:

That’s right. And the citizen has basically a hammer in their hand in this case,, it’s the state law the state funds a big chunk of education – over half of it. And the reason– states should define what a diploma is going to mean. Certainly most states in their constitution say the whole reason for public education is to have an informed citizenry, have citizens that understand what it takes to have good civics, and a good society, and protect our our system of free enterprise and a constitutional republic. It’s the whole reason we have public education.

So, hey, citizens out there, you’ve got the ammunition you need to make this happen in your communities. Just takes a few phone calls, or maybe go testify at the school board meeting, or just call the superintendent or principal and say, “Hey, just want to make sure you’re aware of this.” Sometimes they’re not. But but the state board, thanks to what you got done as well, David, the state board does actually and the Texas Education Agency does send out notices to the schools and tell them they need to be doing this. But–

David:

By the way, Rick, let me add to it. Okay, so you’re not in a state like Texas. You’re in New York, you’re in California, you’re in Washington state, you’re in Hawaii, so you don’t have these kind of laws. Doesn’t matter. In 2004 the federal government passed a law that says every single public school that receives federal funds–

Rick:

That”s right.

Federal Law Behind You

David:

–has to observe Constitution Day and teach the Constitution on that day to the students, cover the Bill of Rights, etc.. So, to be rebuffed for trying to teach the Constitution on Constitution Day, sorry, that’s federal law. And you don’t have to be in a red state like Texas to have support of the state legislature and what Rick did with a state law or what I did with the standards. You’ve got federal law behind you. So, every single state has this protection.

Rick:

Well, Milt, thank you for sending in that question and thanks for your efforts and making that happen as well. And Canton High School. Hey, guys, you all know flea market, big flea market out there. Remember the First Monday days they used to have out there – still do. It’s huge.

Tim:

My wife still goes as much as possible. Â

Rick:

Does she?! People come from other states to go to that. It’s a big deal.

Quick break. We’ll be back with more foundation questions. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Outro:

President Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”

Share a veteran’s story

We Want To Hear Your Vet Story

Rick:

Hey friends! If you have been listening to WallBuilders Live for very long at all, you know how much we respect our veterans and how appreciative we are of the sacrifice they make to make our freedoms possible. One of the ways that we love to honor those veterans is to tell their stories here on WallBuilders Live. Â Once in awhile, we get an opportunity to interview veterans that have served on those front lines that have made incredible sacrifices have amazing stories that we want to share with the American people.

One of the very special things we get to do is interview World War II veterans. You’ve heard those interviews here on WallBuilders Live, from folks that were in the Band of Brothers, to folks like Edgar Harrell that survived the Indianapolis to so many other great stories you heard on WallBuilders Live.

You have friends and family that also served. Â If you have World War II veterans in your family that you would like to have their story shared here on WallBuilders Live, please e-mail us at [email protected]. Â Give us a brief summary of the story and we’ll set up an interview. Thanks so much for sharing here on WallBuilders Live!

Intro:

Thomas Jefferson said, “In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”

Rick:

We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Foundations of Freedom Thursday today. If you’d like to get a question in on the program send it to [email protected], [email protected]. Alright, David, Tim, you all ready for our next question?

Tim and David:

You bet.

Rick:

Here we go. “Recently learned of Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal–“ Now, I’m not familiar with her. I may be pronouncing it wrong, I apologize if I am. “–attempting to get an Abolish ICE bill on the House floor for a vote. But it was rejected. Is the party that’s in the majority usually in control of what bills go up for a vote? Where in the Constitution is this justified? And how far back can you go in history to reference early instances of congressional officials with a majority in Congress blocking the opposition party from getting their bills on the floor for a vote?”

Getting Into the Process

Rick:

So this is one of the fun things we do on Foundations of Freedom Thursday is we get into process sometimes. And, guys, most people don’t pay attention to process or care about process. They only talk about the issues and principles. But process is so important and it actually allows you to win on those principles when you know that process. So, I’m glad this question came in. Go ahead.

David:

Rick, what you’re talking about is exactly what the Bible says in 1 Timothy where it says, “Everyone should run in a race as though they’re going to be crowned. And you can only be crowned if you run according to the rules.” You want to be the winner in a marathon, but you can’t be unless you run according to the rules. And that’s the process. You may have the skills, but if you don’t know the process you can’t win.

So, in this case, the question is, can the House actually do this? Can they decide what bills are coming up and not? The answer is yes. Why? Number one is Article 1, Section 5, paragraph 2, of the Constitution says, “Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings.” So, the Constitution says that the House and Senate can both set up rules on how things will proceed in that body. They do that because over a normal session of the Congress they’re going to introduce from 10 to 13 thousand bills in that session. There’s no way you can go through 10,000-13,000 bills.

And to make sure it’s not frivolous, when a bill is introduced you assign it to a committee, who assigns it to one of its subcommittees, that will then look at it in subcommittee, they’ll hold hearings on it, they will bring it up with the Committee, they will hold hearings on it. If it passes the committee they’re going to bring it out to the floor. It’s a tedious process to make sure something has been properly vetted to get to the floor.

Looking at the Process

David:

So, you have to decide that basically 95 to 98 percent of the bills are not going to make it to the floor. And if you see one that you know is not going to pass, and abolishing ICE is not going to pass. If that gets to the floor it’s a waste of their time, effort, it’s a waste of time at the subcommittee level, at the committee level, and at the general House floor level. Sometimes they will let the bill go through just to show how radical and how strange the other side is, but that’s determined by the majority party. And in this case Republicans are in the majority. So, the Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, does not make that call, he passes it on to the majority leader and the whip who are the ones who decide what bills will come to the floor for consideration. So that’s pretty much the process and that’s the process it”s been.

Are there early examples? I’ll take you back to John Quincy Adams who is such an anti-slavery guy and the pro-slavery guys running the House got so tired of his anti-slavery rhetoric that they passed what was known as the John Quincy Adams gag order. They went back and they made a rule for the House that said in the House you can introduce any petition you want as long as it is not against slavery.

So, even back in the 1830s and 1840s you had this stuff going on where they would shut down bills that they disagreed with. And it goes back earlier than that as well. As long as you have people with opposite views involved in the same Congress some are going to try to shut down the other. So this is not new, but that’s why it happens. And can it happen? Yes. Should it happen? Yes. It happens because the Constitution allows it and it’s been going on since the beginning of Congress.

Rick:

Alright, quick break, guys. We’ll have time for one more segment today and get another question in. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live on Foundations of Freedom Thursday.

Outro:

Samuel Adams said, “The liberties of our Country and the freedom of our civil Constitution are worth defending against hazards. And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks.”

Join WallBuilders In Israel!

Rick:

Hey Friends! Rick Green here from WallBuilders Live. The WallBuilders team is going to Israel and we’d love to have you go with us. It”s going to be January 28 through February 7th, a Holy Land tour that is the experience of a lifetime.

Just imagine sailing on the Sea of Galilee. Imagine going to the Elah Valley where David slew Goliath and even picking up pebbles from the very brook where he picked up those stones to slay Goliath. We’re going to go to Jericho, the Mount of Olives, the Garden of Gethsemane, the pool of Bethesda, and so much more. And you can go with us.

David and Tim Barton, and myself, Rick Green, you”ll just have a great time. The Fellowship’s going to be phenomenal and the Bible is going to come to life right before your eyes. Join us January 28th through February 7th, 2019. But you need to get in and make your reservations now. Check it out at WallBuildersLive.com for this very special trip to the Holy Land.

Intro:

Calvin Coolidge said, “The more I study the Constitution, the more I realize that no other document devised by the hand of man has brought so much progress and happiness to humanity. To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race.”

Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. It”s Foundations of Freedom Thursday. We”ve got one more segment today and here’s our final question for the day.

“What is the name of the 1890 Supreme Court case that withdrew authority from the states to decide on their own immigration policies to where now that authority is left the federal government? Can you articulate a step by step legislative procedure that doesn’t involve the Supreme Court that could overwrite this 1890 decision and return that authority back to the states?” And we may have covered this, guys. A week or two ago we talked about immigration and whether it was state or federal. That may be where this question is coming from.

A Follow Up on Immigration

David:

It is. It”s a follow up to that program. And what we talked about at that point in time was that from the time of the founding fathers up until Ellis Island, the federal government had no role in immigration except to set the uniform standards for immigration. It was the states that did all the receiving of immigrants. You didn’t come to live in America. You came to live in Maryland, or Florida, or Texas, or wherever. So, the states had a say in this.

And what happened was the two Supreme Court cases, 1875 a case called Henderson vs Mayor of City of New York. And 1876 *Chee long vs Freeman is where the Supreme Court said, “Hey, we think we’ll take that authority. I know it belongs to the states, but we”re the Supreme Court and we decided that we want that authority.” So, that’s where in 1891 you have the opening of Ellis Island and that’s where the federal government takes over the authority. So it was states before that.

Now, the process by which you can get the feds out of this is Congress needs to go back and pass a law that says, very simply, that the authority goes back to the states, it’s going to go back to the way it was before the court decisions of 1876. And then they attach language from Article 3, Section 2, of the Constitution called the Exemptions Clause and says, “This law cannot be reviewed by the U.S. Supreme Court.” At that point, when the law is passed and signed in, the court cannot review the law. There’s only half a dozen things the court can review and the Constitution gives the Congress the authority to exempt everything else from the power of the court reviewing it.

How to Not Get the Court Involved

David:

So that’s the way to do it and not get the court involved and taking control again is put the Exemptions Clause in there from Article 3, Section 2. Which, by the way, Congress has done more than 200 times. So this is definitely not unprecedented. But the chances you’re going to get a majority of House and majority of Senate to pass a law like that when it takes, right now, 60 votes in the Senate, takes a supermajority. Probably not going to happen. But that’s the way it could happen.

Rick:

And not only has Congress done it, David, but the courts have agreed– *McArdle and other cases said, “Yes, absolutely they have that right to positive exception.”

This one’s not a question, but as we’re closing out today just going real quick e-mail to folks from our good friend Edgar Harrell who’s been on the program multiple times. You guys had him on television with you just a couple of months ago. Just share this little bit of good news with folks. Mr. Harrell sent an e-mail and said he got home from his surgery for an aortic heart valve. “They sent me home with a special successful operation.” And here’s what he said, “Today this 93 year old World War II Marine has so much to be thankful for. Appreciate all those special prayers for this old Marine.” We love Mr. Harrell and just so appreciate him. He”s still speaking. He’s got like 10 more speaking engagements the rest of the year. Still going out there and sharing the good news and just so thankful for him and thanks to all our listeners for supporting him and and praying for him.