Interview With Joseph Johnson – Driver To General Patton During WWII – Veteran Joseph Johnson, who was driver to General Patton during D-Day and liberator to Dachau Concentration Camp, joins us to share his story. Tune in today to hear this amazing interview!

Air Date: 06/05/2020

Guest: Veteran Joseph Johnson

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

Today’s Links: https://www.amazon.com/Last-Eyewitnesses-World-War-Memories/dp/1499102267


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

 

Rick:

You find your way to the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live and we’re talking about today’s hottest topics on policy and faith and the culture, all these different areas, but we look at them from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. We do that with David Barton, he’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at WallBuilders; with Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders and my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator and known as America’s Constitution coach.

We appreciate you joining us today here listening to the program. But we also want to encourage you to visit our websites, wallbuilders.com and wallbuilderslive.com. And either one of those, you’re going to get a wealth of information, all kinds of great tools to equip and inspire you to make a difference to be a good citizen and to actually bring back, to literally be the catalyst in your community to bring back biblical and constitutional principles to the forefront of our nation.

We love teaching these things and we love hearing the good stories of people that are out there using the tools that we provide you with to make a difference in your culture. So, send me your email, send us some reports on what you’re doing as Constitution coaches if you’re hosting constitution classes in your community or if you’re taking this material and other ways teaching and sharing with other people, we’d love to hear those positive stories. And we’d love to have your questions about foundational principles, you can send those in to radio@wallbuilders.com.

Alright, David, Tim, we’ve got another one of our world war two veterans today. These are some of the coolest episodes that we get to do all year long on WallBuilders Live. And this guy actually drove the jeep for General Patton, so we’re going to get some cool stories today from Joe Johnson.

David:

There are not many more iconic US Army Generals than General Patton. You might argue George Washington is there, got that, maybe Ulysses S. Grant. But certainly, in the top three has got to be General George S. Patton. And the movie that George C. Scott did called Patton, that’s one of the best movies portraying Patton of any of the several had been done, it’s an amazing movie.

Tim:

Well, and we got to speak off air. And to hear some of the additional stories when I hope you bring some of those back up in the interview? But oh my gosh when he talks about that yeah, we always knew where Patton was because we just saw these six guns on somebody hip walking around, I thought oh, that’s got to be Patton. I mean, like just you don’t think of like him, Patton being like this iconic John Wayne character, six guns on the hip, he’s like, no, he just carried these six guns around. And just talking about Patton, like he’s just one of his buddies hanging out, no big deal. It was very fun being able to talk to him off air. So, I’m super excited to be able to get into some of these stories, hear some of the details of what his life was like, what he went through in the midst of World War Two.

Rick:

Stay with us, folks, quick break. When we come back, Tim Barton is going to be interviewing Joe Johnson. You’re going to love this one. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

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Hey friends, if you’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live for very long in all, you know how much we respect our veterans and how appreciative we are of the sacrifice they make to make our freedoms possible. One of the ways that we love to honor those veterans is to tell their stories. Here on WallBuilders Live, once in a while we get an opportunity to interview veterans that have served on those frontlines, that have made incredible sacrifices, have amazing stories that we want to share with the American people.

One of the very special things we get to do is interview World War Two veterans. You’ve heard those interviews here on WallBuilders Live from folks that were in the band of brothers to folks like Edgar Harrell that survived being Indianapolis to so many other great stories you’ve heard on WallBuilders Live. You have friends and family that also serve. If you have World War Two veterans in your family that you would like to have their story shared here on WallBuilders Live, please email us at radio@wallbuilders.com. radio@wallbuilders.com. Give us a brief summary of the story and we’ll set up an interview. Thanks so much for sharing here on WallBuilders Live.

Tim:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. This is Tim Barton and we are joined by a special guest, Joseph Johnson from World War Two and really some remarkable stories. And so, we’re just honored to have him with us. Mr. Johnson, thanks so much for being with us today.

Johnson:

Thank you. Thank you. Oh, it’s an honor.

Tim:

We are very honored to be able to talk with you and really hear your story.

Johnson:

Well, we just wrote a book, we’ve got the book over to press now. There’s 14 of us World War Two veterans in Mississippi and we wrote this book, is our own history of what we, untold stories.

Tim:

What’s the name of the book?

Johnson:

Last Eyewitnesses, World War II Memories: D-Day to 70th Anniversary.

Tim:

Wow!

Johnson:

You can get it on Amazon.

Tim:

How old were you when you first join the military?

Johnson:

16 years old.

Tim:

That seems really young. Was that normal for that time or did you join earlier than everybody else?

Johnson:

Well, you volunteer, your mom and daddy could stand for you, you could get in.

Tim:

So, once you got in at 16, where did you go and what did you do?

Johnson:

I went to basic training and training for 13 weeks and they sent us straight to Europe. I was with a Third Army, General George S. Patton, on land normally be ages 16th of June 1944, we were with a second Armored Division out of Fort Hood, Texas, they called them Hell on Wheels and we landed with a 20th car artillery. When we got through training up in Fort Eustis, Virginia, we’ve got 13 weeks of basic training and then we shipped out of there and went from there to Camp Kilmer, New Jersey. And then when we got to New Jersey, we stay there and process for overseas and we loaded up. We went to Boston, Massachusetts, boated on Aquitania was the name of the ship, ship was 15,000 troops. And we went from there to Scotland… five days across the water.

Tim:

That seems like a pretty short trip for 15,000 men on a boat.

Johnson:

Well, that Aquitania was one of the British [inaudible 06:05] liner, it carried 15,000 troops, that thing, travels 32 knots, submarines couldn’t catch us. They had lay and wait for us, our radar pick them up, we detour around them and they couldn’t bother.

Tim:

So, your ship was so fast that the submarines couldn’t get you?

Johnson:

Well, no, they lay and waited and we run over one of them, they could get us, but we had radar ahead of kind of help us out. We land up in Scotland and then we went down to Salisbury England. We waited four of our equipment to catch up where I was with five, fifth the first triple A and aircraft automatic weapons battalion, for our job was to shoot down airplanes.

Tim:

And was that anti-aircraft? Were you the gunner? Were you loading the ammunition for the gunner, what did you do?

Johnson:

I was a gunner on a 14 millimeter. I was blessed to knock down three German planes and one American. I hate to shoot an American plane down. But I tried to run him off and he wouldn’t go and I told him [inaudible 07:00], I said if he can’t run tracers again, I’m going to take him out. He said, get him.

Tim:

He was scraping you.

Johnson:

Oh yeah, he fought at us twice.

Tim:

Oh no. So, I would assume that he didn’t realize that that was his troops he was shooting it

Johnson:

Well, let me tell you. See, the Air Force out England was supporting us. And they’d come up, they laid [inaudible 07:20] about they love a little laughter. We went across the Rhine River, we dug in across Rhine River two o’clock in the morning. And when they got to [inaudible 07:28] in England, eight Air Forces, they told the firepower, says look, everything on the east side, the Rhine River, don’t shoot, you can kill everything over there. But we didn’t have no cell phones and we didn’t have no way to get back and tell them look, hey, will you cross the river, so don’t bother us.

Tim:

Wow. So, they thought you were hostiles coming after they thought…

Johnson:

Well, they thought we were hostile. But they should have seen the stars on our tanks, but they didn’t pay that much attention. They didn’t kill an officer, overnight, but they cut all the canvas off fire trucks, didn’t hurt none of us.

Tim:

Well, good. So, I would assume then hopefully somebody got word and they realize that you were Americans, and hopefully they didn’t send more planes after you?

Johnson:

Yeah. Well, we shot that pilot man, I [inaudible 08:06] was going to kick his butt… I told him, I said, Lieutenant, what are you firing on us for? He said, you’re an American? I said, I was at six o’clock this morning. He said, how come you all across the river? I said, General Patton got a core of engineers to put us upon [inaudible 08:22], cross at two o’clock when we cross at two o’clock in the morning. Nobody told us that. I said, well, your airplane splattered all over that field out there, I hate to knock you down. But I fired in front of them and behind him, he wouldn’t leave. He’s just decided he was going to get us. He said, well, we need to get somebody information. I said, well, I don’t know how to get a hold of him… the Germans don’t got all our telephone lines cut. We didn’t have no cell phones or anything like that. Our communication was slow and bad.

Tim:

So, from there, where did you all go?

Johnson:

Well, we cross Rhine River, we now sail and we went from there, though, that’s France. I got hit by shrapnel, stayed out of commission for about a week and healed for two weeks, I went back to my unit and went back to work.

Tim:

So, as your unit progressed, you’ve crossed the Rhine, you’re now in France…

Johnson:

Yeah.

Tim:

Was that where you were as the war with, at least a German aspect cook was coming to an end or did you continue on from France?

Johnson:

Well, we left France, we’ve got into German, that’s when we crossed the Rhine River and as we crossed… See, the German didn’t want us to crossed Rhine River because that was their territory. That was their land and they didn’t want to own their land. Hitler said, if they get on our land, we’ve lost. So, they fought us tooth and nail, but they couldn’t stop us, we had too many people. The military was too strong. We had a good military. We just kept taking town. General Patton was, you know that General Patton saved Europe. He was the finest General level officer as I can’t tell you, but now he was hard almost. But it was good for us, he made good soldiers out of us.

Tim:

So, were you in places where General Patton was at the same time he was there, did you see him directing and controlling?

Johnson:

General Patton didn’t like a desk, he wasn’t a desk Jackey. He wanted to be out there in the field with his men. It didn’t surprise you one day, you stand up that far and go, you’d see him standing right behind you watching.  He loved his men. He likes to be out in the field. Eisenhower told him, he said George, you stay out of that stupid field out there, then people going to kill yourself you. Stay off that frontline, he said I don’t even want Germans to shoot me.

Tim:

Well, I bet that really gave you all more respect for him being out among you?

Johnson:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know what? After we cross Rhine River, I had this road down there, my platoon sergeant was Sergeant Walters. He put him out there and said Joe, don’t let nobody go down this road [inaudible 10:38]. So, I said okay. And so, I turned all of ammunition trucks and all field trucks and everything back and wouldn’t let them go. And I heard just a little Jeep coming in… I’ve seen General Patton wore silver helmet and [inaudible 10:52] pistol and he wore those boots and looks like riding boots on a motorcycle. I don’t know what you call them. I stopped the driver and I said driver, you can’t go down this road.

So, General Patton said, hey, you can. I said, General, I’ve got order not to let nobody down this road. He said, you know who I am? So yes, you’re my commanding officer, George S. Patton. He someone gave you an order to give me an order to go down the road and they can’t bother you. So, I pull the horses back and I said, hey gentleman, that road [inaudible 11:17] mine. So, he went on down then and about an hour and a half, two hours, he come back, and he’s come back in a water truck. He didn’t come back in a Jeep. They run over mine and blow [inaudible 11:28] one of his jeep, but didn’t hurt him. He was one old [inaudible 11:32] water truck. Told that driver, said, pull over, I will see that soldier. Well, he says, look, we run over a mine at [inaudible 11:39] of our jeep, but we alright. He said I appreciate what you’ve done, I can use a million of you.

Tim:

Wow! How old were you at that time?

Johnson:

Well, I was about 17 by then.

Tim:

Wow! Only 17 years old and you’ve already seen so much combat. You’ve shot down planes. You’re on guard and with General Patton there. This is remarkable. From that time moving forward, what did you do in the war after that or did you get sent back home?

Johnson:

No, no, no. We went on into Germany. And after the war was over, after the Germans surrendered, we process to go to Japan, but Truman dropped the bomb on Japan, the first atomic bomb and so, they cancelled our orders. But they put us in charge of a big old lake over there. Steinberg Lake, it was a recreational lake. They had all kind of boats, [inaudible 12:31] and stuff and we run that lake there for a while. And then they come down and said, they want somebody to work with the CIA. So, they assigned me with a CIA.

So, we were all over Europe picking up those SS troops, because they were handpicked by Hitler, that was his special forces. But see, they gassed all women and children in Santa Rosa [inaudible 12:51]. You know what? We want to pick them up, because we took him down to Frankfurt to that war crowd down there. Yeah, we went all over, we’re picking them all up [inaudible 13:00] for General Patton aide, Colonel Smith, he’s aide to General Patton. We went all over picking up. We went up in real kosher one morning, pick this guy up and the CIA said, Colonel, you and your drivers, this guy is going to kill you all before you get back down to Frankfort, but he’s the worst guy I’ve ever seen. He’s the meanest guy we’ve picked up. I said, he’s going to kill me, I’ll tell you what I’ll do with him.

So, we had a post welded in the jeep, had rings on and I had a box full of handcuffs and I handcuffed both of his legs and both of his arms. And I said he’s going nowhere, Joe. We went down a road about 10 to 15 miles and he said to me, he’s a General in the German army. He said, driver, what happens to me if you’ve turned Jeep over? I said, throw man, [inaudible 13:45] out, you are on the bottom. He said that isn’t fair, I said, but you all started war.

Tim:

Wow. Because I’ve seen stories of the trials that went on and really that just the atrocities they had done and the reason they were on trial. But you were the one who actually brought them to trial?

Johnson:

Oh yeah, we brought them down to Frankfurt. We went all over Europe picking them up. We went to [inaudible 14:11]. We went up into Scotland. They see, when they surrendered MSS officers, they disappeared. They knew they were going to be in trouble. They knew that. So, some of them went to Australia, some of one all over the country.

Tim:

Wow. As they scattered all over the country, how did you all find them?

Johnson:

Well, CIA had intelligence, now if we cracked a lot of them down and found them. Now, they didn’t want to go to that war trial, that’s the last thing they want to do.

Tim:

Sure.

Johnson:

So, they know they were in trouble. They knew that. But then after a while, they assigned me to go up to Dachau, one of those prison camps, sometimes where they gas all those women and children. Well, one evening, General Patton came down and said, I want you to go to a motor pool and fuel your truck up and go buy the ammunition, pick up all the ammunition you got for two weeks. You’re going to be gone for two weeks, what we’re going, I can’t tell you.

Well, we went behind enemy line about four miles at night, we got up there at day light. The CIA guy was with us, he doesn’t bend over and took pictures. And he laid, map on the hood of the jeep and said, this is Dachau. They got guards on all four corners. And here’s he had a picture of them. He said, I don’t know what we’re going to do if they won’t surrender. We’re going to wait to take prisoners. Well, after I’ve seen all those women and children stacked on the rail cars outside that dead, I said, I know what I’m going to do with it. We don’t have to do nothing. When they’ve seen us come in, they jumped out of the guard trucks and they went through the woods like a deer. All I could see was their shoe soles [inaudible 15:40] they left.

Tim:

Now, in this facility you mentioned seeing the bodies stacked up of the women and children?

Johnson:

Well, when we got there, there’s to, you know what, rail car flat cars, all that whole paper wood on?

Tim:

Yes, sir.

Johnson:

Well, they had about a stack eight foot on each side of those rail cars like paper wood and that was a painful thing you ever seen. For a young man like I was would [inaudible 16:07] I said, what in the world, how can a person be so mad they will gas all those women and children? You could see those little blonde headed girls, pretty blonde hair were [inaudible 16:17] hanging over that rail car, you know, is enough to make you sick.

Tim:

Yeah.

Johnson:

I’ve never seen nothing like that before.

Tim: Oh, my goodness.

Johnson:

You know, it was a blessing for American army for that, they saved the world [inaudible 16:29] save the world, I can tell you that. He’s scared to death, he’s going to someplace sometime and said, he put a map out on the hood of the jeep. He said, I want your soldiers go to this little town right here. He said, I want two tanks, two 40 milliliters and I was on 40 millimeter. He said, go up in this little town, I want you to fire up there, just fire [inaudible 16:47], you put a gun shoot it. Well, I’m going to shoot. He said, shoot the top of the tree, we don’t care what you shoot. He said when you see the German coming, you all retreat and come back to us. I’m going to go around behind and capture all of them. That’s what you do.

Tim:

Wow. Were you nervous in that situation or did you have such trust in Patton, it didn’t matter?

Johnson:

Well, we knew that as soon as the Germans started attacking us, we wouldn’t retreat and go back to the unit. But we knew Patton was going to go around and capture.

Tim:

Wow!

Johnson:

I was on the Battle of the Bulge Ardennes forest up in Belgium, that I have that Bronze Star for Belgium. I got four Bronze Stars. I’ve got the Legion [inaudible 17:29] metal and World War Two [inaudible 17:34].

Tim:

Mr. Johnson. That’s incredible, all that you got to do and be a part of it. And looking back now as we’re just talking about it, is there a specific moment that stands out to you the most of everything because there’s a lot of things you’ve said that are so impressive to me? Is there one moment that really stands out to you?

Johnson:

Well, yes, they’re. When we loaded in Salisbury, England, we loaded on LST now. You know what LST is? The [inaudible 18:00] come off the front. We had our tanks and 40 millimeters and then we had all our stuff and they are moving us from Salisbury, England, no, South Hampton, got back to him, we got up there. There were so many ships stuff up there, we were going around, no ship, he was just having maneuver around those ships. You can just see the mass of the ships taken out of the water, they’ve been so many of them lost. We got where we can get to the beach head. No, the captain said hold on, we’re going out on the beach. Well, he put that thing in full power and we want to see they could run out on that sand and then when all equipment got off, that boat back up and he could pull himself off. And he dumped us off on the beach head.

Tim:

And that beach head landing was the thing that sticks out to you the most in your mind?

Johnson:

Well, yeah, well, you know, [inaudible 18:49] ships, I didn’t know we had that many ships in the world.

Tim:

Wow. Will you tell me the name of that book again, just so our listeners can know?

Johnson:

It says “Last Eyewitnesses, World War II Memories: D-Day to 70th Anniversary”.

Tim:

And that’s available on amazon.com. For all of our listeners, they can go check that out and learn more of your story, so really, we can get a great history lesson and learn about some of our great heroes. Mr. Johnson, I want to tell you, we really appreciate you and your service for our nation and the legacy you’ve left. You are absolutely an American hero and a treasure. You went through World War Two and shot down planes and so many things you saw and experienced and working with the CIA and just an incredible story. And so, for our listeners, if you want to know more about it, you can get this book on Amazon. And Mr. Johnson, we really appreciate you taking time to talk with us today.

Johnson:

Thank you.

Tim:

We’ll be right back with David Barton and Rick Green here on WallBuilders Live.

BREAK

Hi, friends, this is Tim Barton of WallBuilders. This is a time when most Americans don’t know much about American history or even heroes of the faith. And I know oftentimes we’re parents We’re trying to find good content for our kids to read.

And if you remember back to the Bible, to the book of Hebrews, it has the faith Hall of Fame where they outline the leaders of faith that had gone before them. Well, this is something that as Americans, we really want to go back and outline some of these heroes, not just of American history, but heroes of Christianity in our faith as well.

I want to let you know about some biographical sketches we have available on our website. One is called The Courageous Leaders collection. And this collection includes people like Abigail Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Francis Scott Key, George Washington Carver, Susanna Wesley, even the Wright brothers. And there’s a second collection called Heroes of History. In this collection, you’ll read about people like Benjamin Franklin or Christopher Columbus, Daniel Boone, George Washington, Harriet Tubman, friends, the list goes on and on. This is a great collection for your young person to have and read and it’s a providential view of American and Christian history. This is available at wallbuilders.com. That’s www.wallbuilders.com.

Rick:

We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us and very, very special thanks to Joe Johnson for being with us today. Tim getting to do another one of those World War Two veteran interviews. But in this case, a special connection. The stories are always amazing, especially how these guys are so nonchalant about it. But in this case, getting to be a Jeep driver for Patton, getting to be there on D-day, just chock full. And actually, we’re thrilled to be able to air it at a time where people need to be reminded of those sacrifices.

David:

Well, it’s an amazing story, because how many today would let their 16 year old go off to war like this? A 16 year old that went off to war.

Tim:

Well, now, wait a second. I’m pretty sure he was 17 on the paper.

David:

Well, he said he had to get parental permission. So, you know, but still, how many parents would get permission? He had to get permission and then to be the guy that shot down three German airplanes and one American airplane. Why would you shoot down America? Because technology was so bad, they had such poor communication, that the American plane is shooting on the American troops and so he had to shoot down the American plane to save lives. And I love the confrontation, go out in the pasture, get ready to just bust the pilot when he gets out of the plane. What are you doing shooting at us?

But I mean, those are just stories that are hard to imagine. Then when he got to Patton, oh my gosh, Tim, you were saying you hope that he told some Patton’s stories. But then Patton says, just shoot at the troops, shooting, I don’t care where you shoot, just shoot and make them pay attention. I’m going to come up behind them and capture them all. And he go, oh my gosh, this is kind of like the Wild West. And then they go driving into Dachau, you know, the German death camp. And they’re the ones that get the Germans to surrender.

The Germans had not given up the camp. So, they drove in and they saw the Americans and turned and ran. I mean, that’s just an amazing story. And then to find what they saw and see all the bodies on the rail cars and then to have the CIA assigned him to go pick up the SS guys that had done all the killing. I mean, we’re talking to 16 year old. What do you say? He was 17 or 18 when he finally got to that part of the war and so, he’s picking up war criminals.

And so here he is, he lands on D-day, he goes to the Battle of the Bulge. He drives Patton. He helps get the surrender of Dachau and then gets attention brought to it with all. I mean, an 18 year old, this is just almost, I don’t even know how we fathom the depth of what he did and what he went through.

Tim:

And also thinking about how much of this information has been lost over time. One of the reasons we love doing these veteran interviews is to help recapture and retell some of the stories that have largely been forgotten. You know, even as mentioning Dachau and what they saw when they got there reminded me that it wasn’t very long ago that we were over in Israel and we actually have more troops coming up.

And one of the things that is said today is that, you know, the Holocaust was a fake, right this didn’t really happen. And you have Holocaust deniers today. And then you talk to someone like this and he says, no, I was there, we drove up and here’s what happened. And again, off air, we heard some additional details, some of these stories. But it’s amazing how much has been forgotten and lost. And how rich these stories are and sometimes in a very tragic way. But there’s just so much to the story that today people don’t know.

David:

Well, the fact that he talked about this so nonchalantly, I mean, he was telling the stories, but it was like, it’s a big deal. And I appreciate the fact that he got all those veterans in Mississippian and they’ve done the book. And, you know, that’s going to be a great book to go back and get some of the veterans’ stories and especially even his story. I’m just seeing all the rest of the details of what Tim you got to hear off air, I mean that that’s fascinating stuff. But the fact that we’re remembering these guys, I was talking to a guy two days ago, who’s going, his uncle is the oldest surviving veteran and all the state of Tennessee, he’s turning 100 years old. They’re doing a big birthday presentation for him. There’s just not many of these guys left. And so, the fact that they’re willing to talk about this and let us hear it and preserve this for generations, this really is an important part of our history and is part of the reason that we’re free and that we’re here today

Rick:

Well, special thanks to Joe Johnson, for sharing his story with us today. We hope you enjoy the stories? We’ve actually got a CD that has some of the best veteran interviews that we’ve had over the years. You can get those at our website, wallbuilders.com. And, you know, it’s just important to capture these stories, to share these stories. It’s important for us to remember the price of freedom.

You may have some veterans in your family that have never shared their story with the family, I would encourage you to sit them down, take out the, you know, home video and get the family circled around them and get them to share those stories. Record those stories for posterity for your particular family. Those are things that should not be forgotten. You know, Ronald Reagan talked about if we forget what we did, we won’t know who we are. And that happens way too often in our American culture, because we do so little in terms of teaching civics in our education system anymore. We forget how important these roles are.

And if you don’t remember what we did, and you don’t remember the sacrifice of previous generations, it’s less likely that future generations will be willing to make similar sacrifices if called upon to do so. So, you know, take what we’ve done here on the program as we do these veteran interviews and share them with our audience across the nation and do the same thing in your own family. We encourage you to take advantage of that opportunity.

Be sure to check out wallbuilderslive.com today where you can get in the archive section, previous programs from several months back. You can get some more Good News Friday programs, Foundations of Freedom programs, you name it, they’re all available right there on the website and that’s where you can also make a contribution to WallBuilders to help us continue this great work. Thanks for listening today. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.