George Barna Discusses Where Born Agains Are Missing the Mark: David, Tim, and Rick talk about trends of Christianity over the years and the impact that it has had on our culture. George Barna discusses some eye-opening results from recent polls of born again Christians – including the percentage of “€œborn agains”€ who don”€™t believe Jesus was sinless or who believe the Bible doesn”€™t contain absolute moral truth.  They discuss the importance of combating these views with solid teaching if we want to regain our culture.

Air Date: 10/17/2017

Guests: George Barna, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

You”€™ve found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture, this is WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, all of it from a Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

Today we”€™re with David Barton, he”€™s America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker, and pastor – he”€™s our president here at WallBuilders. And my name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator, national speaker, and author.

Later in the program, George Barna will be with us we’ll be talking about a very important topic. Again, incredible research that he’s done there and it will open your eyes. So you want to stay with us for the whole program for that interview with George. David, Tim, let’s talk about some of the trends, if you will, in the culture – certainly specifically in the church and among Christians and our belief systems today.

Revivals In America

David:

Well, I think one of the trends we can do is just by looking back at somewhat of relatively recent spiritual history in America. As you look across the national revivals that have happened in American history – whether it’s the First Great Awakening, the Second Great Awakening at the turn of the century, revivals whatever.  The Azusa Street Revival, you have in the 70s — late 60s early 70s — what was called the “€œJesus Movement”€ and that “€œJesus Movement”€ was a real turning back. It was in the era with all the hippies, and the anti-war stuff, and all the drug stuff, all the hallucinogens that were so common, LSD, etc. There was this counter-cultural movement that really popped up called the “€œJesus Movement.”

And so back and the in the 60s and 70s and even the 80s, the culture was such that, used to say, “€œHey, you don’t have to share your faith with your words, you can do it with your lifestyle.” And that was true back then – that’s not true today. Lifestyle no longer makes a distinction, statistically speaking, with so many areas.

Tim:

Well, and let’s say the same distinction it used to — because obviously, we’re not saying you shouldn’t live a life like Christ.

David:

Good point.

Lack of Biblical Knowledge Today

Tim:

That’s obviously not what we’re saying, but the problem is now there’s so much more limited and a lack of knowledge of Biblical truth, whereas back in the 60s and 70s, I mean, it was still everybody went to church.  Everybody knew the Ten Commandments.  There were still such a greater common knowledge of Biblical truth and values, that when people saw it lived out, they”€™d go “€œOh, you’re living like Jesus.”

Today, people don’t know Biblical truth and values.  So seeing it in your lifestyle is not enough to communicate on the same level of what it used to communicate.

Cultural Issues

David:

And if you think about issues that we face today, I mean, you guys just start throwing out some — what are moral issues that we face in the culture today? Name them, anything –

Tim:

Pornography.

David:

Alright.

Tim:

Sex-trafficking.

David:

Alright.

Tim:

Domestic abuse, domestic violence —

Rick:

Fraud in the business world, just no integrity in a lot of businesses now. That”€™s why we end up with so much white collar crime if you will.

David:

Keep going.

Tim:

Yeah so, theft, murder.

David:

Lying, cheating, stealing —

Tim:

Sure, sure.

Ten Commandments Cover The Issues

David:

All of this stuff in the Ten Commandments. So here’s the point of that, George Barna, who we’re going to have on the program shortly, George has been doing polling in America for decades. And George points out that in current polling right now in 100 different moral categories – all the stuff you guys listed and about 85 others – in 100 different moral categories right now, they can find no statistical difference in the behavior of Christians and non-Christians. Both of them do the same on pornography, both of them same amount lying, same amount cheating,  same amount stealing, same amount with drug use, same amount with all–

Tim:

The same amount of — the same percentage of Christians as non-Christians are engaging in that behavior.

David:

In that behavior — which is why now, if you say, “€œHey, show Jesus by your lifestyle,”€  most Christians kind of show the secular lifestyle rather than the Christian one. And so–

Tim:

Yeah, “€œWhy do I need Jesus?  You live just like I do.”

David:

That”€™s exactly right.

Does Our Lifestyle Represent Jesus?

Tim:

And so, yes, the problem isn’t, “€œShow Jesus through your lifestyle,” it”€™s that our lifestyle represents the world instead of Jesus.

David:

Yeah, our lifestyle, Christian lifestyle, no longer represents Biblical behavior.  It represents secular behavior. And so now it’s really tough to look at the fruits of Christians and non-Christians and tell the difference.

Tim:

Well, and let me back up for a little caveat – it’s because Christians are not living like Christ —

David:

Right.

“€œChristian Behavior”€

Tim:

Because we’re saying Christian behavior, well, that’s really not Christian behavior. If you’re living immorally, and you’re sinning, and doing all these things that clearly God, Christ, the Bible, tells us not to do, but —

David:

Yeah, so let me put “€œChristian”€ in air quotes.

Tim:

Right, true.

David:

So “€œChristian”€ behavior.

Behaviour That Looks Like The World

Tim:

But people that proclaim and profess to be Christians have embraced un-Godly and worldly behavior and, therefore, when you look at someone that professes to be a Christian, what you are seeing is not Godly behavior. It’s behavior that looks just like the rest of the world.

Rick:

Well, said.

Alright, we”€™re  going to take a quick break, guys. When we come back, George Barna will be with us to talk about some of this data that he’s discovered and it’s going to be a wakeup call folks.  But it’s going to hit you between the eyes.  You”€™re going to say, “€œWhat can I do about this?  And am I part of the problem?  I want to be part of the solution.”€

Stay with us. George Barna when we come back.

Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. After the final victory at Yorktown, the Continental Army awaited the outcome of peace negotiations with Great Britain.

Pastor Israel Evans, a chaplain in the army, proposed to George Washington that they build a structure where church services can be held during the months of waiting. Washington approved the plan and urges officers to ensure that the soldiers attend that service.

Pastor Evans further knew if we were to secure the liberties they had fought for, sound education would be crucial.

He declared, “€œEvery parent and every friend to the freedom of his country ought to be attentive to the improvement of our youth and the principles of freedom and good government. And then the people will stand fast in their liberty for a long time.”€ Our schools today need to return to teaching the principles of freedom and good government in order for America to survive and prosper. For more information about Pastor Israel Evans and other colonial Patriots go to WallBuilders.com

Guest George Barna

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live – thanks for staying with us today. Our good friend, George Barna, is with us. George, always good to have you, sir. Thanks for coming back on.

George Barna:

Love being with you. Thanks for having me.

Rick:

Hey great, again, always great research. But I just love the way you dive deep into what people are thinking and their values and it give us a great feel for the trend of the country. And once again, alarming, alarming response as you have figured out how few, “€œborn again Christians”€ actually believe in a “€œborn again faith.”

I mean, I was amazed at the data that you came back with and you talk about where born-agains are missing the mark.  But I got to ask you, first of all, when you get some of this data back in your hands, do you continue to be shocked, or do you just go, “€œOkay, well there it is again.”   This has got to surprise you when you see how few people that call themselves born-again Christians actually believe in basic Christianity.

We Don”€™t Measure What People Say About Themselves

George Barna:

Yeah. And let me just say these aren”€™t people who call themselves born again, these are people who, based on their beliefs, we classify them as born again based on what they think about Christ, what they think about salvation. So, you know, the media surveys will ask people what they think of themselves as – not a very good measurement strategy.

We try to do a little bit better by looking at their theology.  And that’s what makes this even more depressing.

George Barna:

These are people who know that the only way that they will ever be able to live for eternity with God in heaven is by confessing their sins and embracing Christ as their Savior – that they can’t work their way into heaven. And yet, when we look at all the other things that they believe it’s a combination of startling and depressing and hard to believe.

Rick:

What are a couple of things that stood out to you most? I mean, you’re dealing with, let’s put this in context — you’ve already verified them through previous questions that their belief system is in Christ.  But then you go on to find out — point out a couple of things that surprised you the most.

People Believe Jesus Sinned

George Barna:

Well, it is surprising and depressing. I mean, when you’ve got born again Christians you’re talking about, who will put their eternity in Christ’s hands.  Yet, almost half of them – 48%, believe that when He lived on earth, Jesus, because He was human, sinned.

Tim:

What, really?

Rick:

Wow.

Tim:

Are you kidding me?!

53% Of Christians Say There Is No Absolute Moral Truth

George Barna:

And then we look at the whole idea of the Bible, I mean, that’s where truth comes from, and yet, what we find with born-again Christians – 53%, a majority of them – say that there is no such thing as absolute moral truth that’s contained in the Bible.

Rick:

And just to clarify, give us some more, but that’s not 53% of the general population. That’s not even 53% of people that might go to church. That’s 53% that, based on the clear definitions you’ve used in your poll in born-again Christians, 53% of them are saying these things.

George Barna:

Yeah.

Rick:

Yeah – go ahead.

Born Again People Say God Gives Multiple Ways To Heaven

George Barna:

I mean the numbers are higher with all these other groups that you’re alluding to as you might expect.  But the fact that a majority of born-again people say there is no absolute moral truth.  You can’t find that in the Bible.  That helps explain why the church is in the mess that it’s in today and why we’re not making more of an impact on the culture.

When you don’t believe the Bible provides the absolute moral truth, what are you left with to determine right from wrong?  Your feelings?  Your feelings change from moment to moment situation the situation. And so that”€™s part of our issue there.

You know, we also found other things like even though these are people who would say that my eternity is only based on God’s grace – you know, the fact that Jesus died on the cross for me and I accepted him as my savior. And yet, more than a third of them say, “€œBut you know, other people can earn their way in – it’s an either or – God loves you so much that He’s going to give you multiple ways of getting in.”

Rick:

Wow.

Faith Is What Matters

George Barna:

Well, yeah, here’s another example of why they say, “€œWell, the Bible doesn’t have absolute moral truth.” They have no idea what’s in the Bible. So that’s depressing.

And then you look at other things like the fact that seven out of ten will say it doesn’t matter what faith you possess, what matters is that you have faith. And that’s really sad because when you think about what we share with other people, we share what we believe.

You can’t get what you don’t have. And so people are going to naturally be passing those kinds of ideas along to others at the same time that they’re passing themselves off as Bible-believing, Christ-honoring, Christians. And so, we get into this rut in America where bad theology begets bad theology and people are constantly giving across stuff that”€™s not Biblical, but they talk about it as if it is and this is a great example of that kind of nonsense.

Christians Don”€™t Read The Bible

Rick:

You go on to point out that they don’t read the Bible during a typical week, so they”€™re not going to find truth if they’re not seeking it out and in that way. And you even say one-third of them prefer socialism to capitalism. Now, that’s really scary.

George Barna:

Yeah, this is something that we’re actually seeing across America. I was just looking at that this morning, some of the recent numbers on that. And we’ve got about four out of 10 Americans who say they would prefer that America become socialist to remaining capitalist.

Rick:

Wow.

George Barna:

And of course, it’s higher with younger adults than with older adults. But to find that many born-again Christians who have that perspective, that is a scary thing. But it goes back and it really relates to this whole notion of how many people have a Biblical worldview.

And when we look at Born Again Christians, what we find is only 3 out of 10 of the born-again population has a Biblical worldview – America at large only 10%. But boy, how’s that going to get better if the people, who are probably spending more time than the rest of the country reading and studying the Bible, if they’re not getting it that means maybe we need to rethink what it is that we’re doing to try to teach people God’s truth.

Pastors Don”€™t Preach About Economics

Rick:

Yeah, yeah, no doubt about it. And that, I mean, even that application of — to things like economics.  When”€™s the last time we’ve heard about pastors preaching from the pulpit what the Bible says about economics, and wages, and profit, and all that. I mean, it’s all in there. We just don’t preach that application and so how can we expect the congregation to have a knowledgeable and Biblically accurate position on those issues.

Conservative Christians WANT Their Pastors To Teach About Key Issues

George Barna:

Well, and that relates to one of the things that we found during the election cycle that we just came out of where we asked Christians, devoted Christians, conservative Christians, around the country, “€œWould you like your pastor to teach you certain things?”€ and “€œWhat do you want him to teach?”

And what we found is that conservative Christians were virtually begging their pastors to teach them how to think Biblically about the key issues in the election. But then when we went back and we talked with the theologically conservative pastors from across the country and said, “€œWill you teach your people?”€ And we gave a list of about 12, 13, 14, different issues that people want to know about, they steadfastly simply refused to do that.

Pastors Refuse

They had all kinds of reasons why they wouldn’t do it – it’s controversial.  People will leave the church, the elders will get upset.  I don’t really understand these issues well enough to do that.

I mean, all kinds of issues, but none of that really is an excuse to keep a population of people who are begging to know how to think the way the Bible teaches us to think, to refuse to help them to do that.  That’s really a shame.

Rick:

How important is it, before I let you go, for the congregation to let the pastor know that? Actually to contact them and lovingly say, “€œHey brother, I need to know how to apply my Bible to all these things going on – would you please start addressing those?”

Pastors Want A Non-Controversial Way To Build Their Church

George Barna:

It’s absolutely critical because pastors are looking for non-controversial ways to build their church. What congregants have to do is to let them know, “€œIf you’re not going to teach me what I need to do to understand the full counsel of Scripture and to be able to live my life to really honor God with every morsel of my being, I’m going to have to find somebody who will. I’d like to stay here.  I’m asking you, would you please help me to be Christ-like?”

Jesus would not have avoided these issues. He didn”€™t.  I mean, you look at His life as portrayed in the Scriptures and He dealt with the tough stuff of daily life and on. Our pastors have to have the same courage and fortitude to do the same thing. And if they don’t know those answers, there are plenty of resources out there and plenty of people who will help them to understand how to think and teach about those matters.

Rick:

Well, that’s a good role for every one of us to share that information. We all have tools at our fingertips. Let your brothers and sisters in Christ get — you know, get good resources in their hands on how to apply that Biblical worldview to everything going on in the country today.

George Barna, always a pleasure to have you, sir, appreciate you coming on. The website where folks can go to get the surveys, your books, all that information, CultureFaith.com, right?

George Barna:

That’s it. That’s the best place.

Rick:

Alright, appreciate you coming on, bro.

George Barna:

Keep doing what you”€™re doing, my friend.

Rick:

Stay with us folks, we”€™ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Bring A Speaker To Your Area

Tim:

Hey, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders.  And as you’ve had the opportunity to listen to WallBuilders Live, you’ve probably heard a wealth of information about our nation, about our spiritual heritage, about the religious liberties, and about all the things that make America exceptional.

And you might be thinking, “€œAs incredible as this information is, I wish there was a way that I could get one of the WallBuilders guys to come to my area and share with my group.”€

Whether it be a church, whether it be a Christian school, or public school, or some political event, or activity, if you’re interested in having a WallBuilders speaker come to your area, you can get on our website at www.WallBuilders.com and there’s a tab for scheduling. If you”€™ll click on that tab, you’ll notice there’s a list of information from speakers bio’s, to events that are already going on. And there’s a section where you can request an event, to bring this information about who we are, where we came from, our religious liberties, and freedoms. Go to the WallBuilders website and Bring a speaker to your area.

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us and thanks to George Barna for joining us on today’s program. We’re back now with David and Tim Barton.

Guys, as George was going through all of that, he’s listing these things.  I’m not so sure — I mean some of these things we’ve probably have debate in the church today over whether or not this is true. So where do we go for truth?

The Bible Is The Standard

David:

Well, we do have debate over it, but the answer to where we go for truth is the Bible. The Bible is the standard for right and wrong. The Bible is the standard for the beliefs of Christians.

And by the way, he was talking specifically about born-agains. And born-agains are generally considered to be those more active in their personal faith than just an ordinary professing Christian.

It goes back to John 3 where Jesus said, “€œUnless you’re born again you can”€™t enter into the kingdom of heaven.” And so you know they said, “€œWell, what’s that mean to be born again?”

And so, “€œborn again”€ means someone who has had a personal, life-changing, experience with Jesus Christ. And because of that, they should be living differently than just an ordinary person that says, “€œOh yeah, I’m an American, I’m a Christian – same thing.”

If you’ve had a life-changing experience with Jesus Christ, your life is supposed to be changed.  It”€™s supposed to be different.

SAGECons

Tim:

And one of the challenges as you’re saying this, too — I’m thinking about how George identified some of these groups whether it’s the evangelicals and the SAGECons, etc. And so one of the significant distinctions about this group of born-agains is they are generally people that have had a significant Christ experience. They have been, in fact, born again.  But they don’t necessarily base their life on the Bible.

They’ve kind of divided that thought of, “€œWell, no, Jesus is real and I believe in Jesus.” But then they don’t always define truth, and Christian truth, and Christian behavior, based on the Bible as they should – often because they don’t turn to the Bible as the resource it needs to be in their life and then they end up really kind of forming God more into their image of what they think it would look like and what, “€œWell, I think God will accept that.  Well, God would love us,  and well, God will do this, and well, God is like this.”

Instead of going, “€œWait a second, what does the Bible actually say?  Let’s go to the Bible.” And so this is one of the disconnects is that, too often, they don’t know what the Bible says.

David:

Well, having said that, George said that 48% of born-agains believe that Jesus sinned. Okay, real easy stuff.

Tim:

Yeah, what do you base that on?

David:

Well, there are the verses you don’t base it on – 1 Peter 2:22 says, “€œHe has committed no sin and no deceit was found in His mouth.”

Rick:

Well, wait. That’s not very clear. I mean, what does “€œno”€ mean?

David:

Yeah, that”€™s right. How do you define “€œno.”

Rick:

Right.

Jesus Did NOT Sin

David:

No – He has committed no sin. 1 John 5:3 says, “€œAnd in Him is no sin.”

Hebrews 4:15 says, “€œWe don’t have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we do have one who in every respect has been tempted as we have been tempted, yet without sin.”

Tim:

And in all these we”€™re talking Jesus. So, it’s the “€œHim.”  It”€™s the “€œHe.”€  The “€œhigh priest.”€  All of this is referencing Jesus. And it says He’s never sinned.

David:

He’s never sinned.

Rick:

And that’s, those aren’t and like you said, I mean, these aren’t words that are confusing. There’s this “€œno,” “€œnone.”

It’s very, very clear. How do we — how are we only 60% accurate as we poll people out there.  Why would only, why, how could 40% think the opposite?

David:

It”€™s 48% who say the opposite.

Rick:

Oh.

David:

It’s only 52% who think that Jesus lived a sinless life.

Tim:

And let me point out a major fault with this. Okay, so if Jesus did not live a sinless life, then His death on the cross was for His sin – not our sin. So the only way we could be forgiven by the death in the blood of Jesus by His sacrifice is if He actually was a pure, perfect, spotless, sacrifice who had no sin. Because if He had sinned, ultimately the death He pays is a response and consequence of His sin.

Rick:

Yeah.

Tim:

But then we don’t get saved because He couldn’t pay our price.  He had to pay His price.

Rick:

Okay, so how do you get nearly half that are saying, “€œThis is who I have my faith in.  I”€™m saved because of my faith in this person,” but yet —

David:

Before we do that, let me give a Bible verse to validate what Tim is saying because Tim didn’t just give you his opinion – he just gave you the Bible.

2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “€œFor God made Jesus who knew no sin to be sin for us so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” It is necessary that for us to be saved, Jesus had to have no sin otherwise the sacrifice, as Tim said, was for Himself.

Rick:

That”€™s right.

David:

So that if — that wasn’t Tim’s opinion, that is Bible. So, Rick, your question is, “€œHow come?”

Because they don’t know their Bible. We’ve seen polling shows only 14% of Christians – that’s only one out of seven Christians – read the Bible daily.

Rick:

But David, when you say they don’t know the Bible you don’t mean like some obscure text that you have to really dig deep, you’re talking about basic tenets of faith that we don’t know.

1 Out Of 7 Read The Bible Daily

David:

See here’s the thing, is one out of seven read the Bible daily, but that doesn’t mean they read through the Bible. They could read the same favorite passage over and over. Only one out of 33 Christians – only 3% – have actually read through the Bible from cover to cover. So we’re talking about, basically, 32 out of 33 who don’t know what’s in the Bible. So that’s why you get 48% who say, “€œOh no, no, no, everybody sins – Jesus sinned too.”

No, no, you’ve got to understand what the Bible says is, somebody had to be sinless so they could be a sacrifice for the rest of us who have sinned, and that’s Jesus. If Jesus is sin, then you can’t be born again.  I mean, it can’t exist because nobody’s paid the price for your sins.

So that’s one real problem, but it all goes back to knowing the Bible. And these are not obscure teachings in the Bible – these are very self-evident teachings in the Bible.  They”€™re central core teachings of the Bible, which is why George asked about them because these aren’t little obscure things that you find in one passage way back in the back of some book in the Old Testament that’s a minor prophet. We’re talking, these are themes that are covered top to bottom throughout the Bible.

Tim:

But if you only read a couple of verses from Psalm and then that’s your daily reading, or a couple of verses from Proverbs, then you wouldn’t know about the four gospels.  You wouldn”€™t know the 13 Pauline epistles, you would know —

We can look throughout whatever portion we’re talking about – the Pentateuch, or the historical books, or the prophets.  I mean, you just, you don’t know what’s there because we haven’t spent time in it.

Even though, as we mentioned, some people do – every day they”€™re in the Bible.  Maybe they’re just not reading through all of the Bible, so they only know a very limited portion. Again, maybe from a Psalms or Proverbs instead of knowing, “€œNo, wait a second – the Bible really gives us our theology if we would just study and know what the Bible says.

God Divides Right From Wrong

David:

And then George points out that 53% of born again Christians – and these are the more active ones, supposedly – 53% say that there is no absolute moral truth. That means they know nothing about the Bible because from start to finish.  The Bible, God, lays down what’s right and wrong for human behavior all the way through time after time.

Tim:

Well, and let me point out — so John 14:6 Jesus says, “€œI’m the way, the truth, and the life.” So even this idea, “€œWell, there’s no absolute truth,” well, Jesus says that He is truth.  

Truth exists, it’s found in Him. And so if we’re saying, “€œWell, there is no truth,” well, Jesus says that’s His very nature, that’s who He is, He is truth.

And that’s an absolute.  That’s who He is and what He does. And therefore, even what He says is truth, but we don’t even see the connect of truth in scripture much less that God’s Word is true or that Jesus Himself was even truth.

Ten Commandments

David:

And if you take something as simple as the Ten Commandments, don’t steal, don’t murder, don’t perjure yourself, respect your parents, it — was that only good for that generation 3500 years ago, or does that still work today?

No, the Bible makes it clear that this behavior to be expected of mankind for all of their existence on earth. And then the third thing George pointed out is 70% of these born-agains believe ther ares multiple ways of getting to heaven. Tim, what was that verse you just said?

Tim:

John 14:6 I think covers that one too. And this one verse actually is probably pretty good theology to steady on some of these sayings. Yeah, Jesus makes a claim of exclusivity where He says that He is the only way to the Father.  “€œNo man comes to the Father except through Me.”

David:

Now, wait a minute – how many?

Tim:

No man.

David:

No man.

Tim:

Including women and children, grandparents, and everybody, nobody comes to the Father unless they come through Jesus. So if you look at any other religion, no other religion can get you to the Father, can get you to heaven, can get you to eternity where you want to be with God forever, unless it goes through Jesus.

David:

Well, and I’ll add to that Acts 4:12 where the Apostles say, “€œThere is no other name under heaven whereby men can be saved.” There’s just no other way of getting there.

It doesn’t matter how sincerely you believe in Muhammad, how sincerely you believe in anything else, there’s only one way to get to heaven according to the Bible. And 70% of born agains think that other ways will get you to heaven. See, this is what happens when you don’t know the Bible and America’s got to — Christians have to start knowing the Bible again if America’s ever going to get —

Tim:

Yeah.

David:

— back on track.

Tim:

Yeah, we”€™ve got to get back into reading and knowing what the Bible says.

Rick:

It has an impact on the entire culture because it affects how you live, it affects how you vote, affects the whole how the country works, the kind of elected officials we end up with, what our laws look like, all of those things are downstream from whether or not we actually study and understand the truth that we finally got that.

Thanks To George Barna!

Thanks for listening today! Especially thanks to George Barna for joining us as well. We appreciate you being here.