God’s Chaos Candidate, Now God’s Chaos President: In this episode, we talk about Dr. Lance Wallnau”€™s book called, “€œGod”€™s Chaos Candidate.”€ We learn that he was able to predict Trump”€™s presidency and also what phase Lance believes we are in and why we are experiencing what we are experiencing now. We also discuss the seven mountains and how you can influence your mountain to bring change to your culture and community.  Tune in now to hear all this and more right here on WallBuilders Live!

Air Date: 03/14/2017

Guests: Lance Wallnau, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


Download: Click Here

Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.



You found your way to the intersection of faith and the culture.  Thanks for joining us here on WallBuilders Live! We”€™re talking about these hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, always looking at it from Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

David Barton is here with us, America’s premiere historian and the Founder of WallBuilders. Tim Barton”€™s with us, president of WallBuilders, national speaker, and pastor. And my name’s Rick Green.  I’m a former Texas state rep.

You can find out more about us and the organization at WallBuilders.com and WallBuildersLive.com. WallBuilders is a national pro-family organization presenting America’s forgotten history and heroes with an emphasis on our religious, moral, and constitutional heritage. We try to do that in every area of the culture.

David, Tim, we talk a lot about making sure we’re influencing not just the church but also the media, journalism, politics, business, and every area. And later in the program, we’re going to have Lance Wallnau with us. He’s one of the guys that has been talking about the seven mountains for many years and getting people out of the church to go into every area of the culture.

Areas Of Culture That Need To Be Influenced


On our program, for a number of years, we talked about the five areas of culture you have to influence. We talked about how important it was and how that those are the five areas that help determine the direction of a nation and the Christians need to be involved in all that.

So, we talked about the five and then start hearing about the seven mountains and that started coming around. That was fine because we had some grouped as doubles and so you know that worked fine.


Well, and in the groupings in the numbers are almost insignificant. The point is you should be involved in every aspect of culture.  So you can group 85 of different topics in categories if you wanted to. But if the Word of God speaks to that, that’s a cultural influence, then you want to take the word of God, the Bible, and your faith into that area whether there’s 5, 7, or 85.  That’s an arbitrary number. The significant thing is that faith should apply to it.


So from that standpoint of faith applied to it, this really got the critics out in full force.  You don’t ever want to go to my Wikipedia page.  That Wikipedia page is really bad and it’s so bad they will not even let us edit our own page at all.

If we try to insert, for example, “WallBuilders is an organization dedicated to presenting America’s forgotten history and heroes.”  They strike that it out. And so what they’ve got is because we believe in the seven mountain or five influences because we believe the Christians should be involved in all aspects of culture.  We are theocrats.  That’s one. Another is we’re reconstructionist.  They don’t even know what those words mean.

Number one, you can’t have a theocracy as long as you elect your leaders. A theocracy is where someone pops up as a dictator and they speak as the voice of God as the divine right of kings. It’s a priest who says this is what God says it”€™s ayatollah, and are those theocracies.

Here we are in a nation that has elections and we say, “Guys you need to let your faith be known.  You need to let that influence -”  That’s created a theocracy? Nonsense. These guys who criticize us they want their philosophy gone through every aspect of the culture.  They want everything in the culture to reflect their progressivism, or their secularism, or whatever. Maybe they’re the ones doing the theocracy.

They Don”€™t Even Know What They Are Saying

They don’t even know what that means and then they say, “€œOh we’re reconstructionist.”€ And that’s supposed to scare everybody and that’s a silly claim too because reconstructionist that’s a particularly narrow part of theology within the reformed movement. And that presupposes that our theology is reformed which it is not.

I don’t have any trouble with Reformed Theology.  There are parts of it I definitely agree with. But they’re not even smart enough to know what theology is. So they use these pejoratives and throw them around.

So us, and WallBuilders, and Lance Wallnau, and all these people were theocrats and Reconstructionist because we think Christians should be involved. But there’s no question, we should be salt and light in every single aspect of life. Christians should be the best physicians and the best medical people out there. We should be the best political leaders out there. We should be the best teachers out there. We should be the best parents out there. We”€™ll ought to be the best in everything.

We have the benefit of God’s word, and influence of God’s word.  We have history behind it, and we get so much. And so that’s really what Lance does.  He’s got some interesting books that have come out recently looking at really some modern application for this even into the realm of government.  That’s going to be a lot of fun to talk about.


Quick break.  We’ll be right back. Stay with us here on WallBuilders Live!

DVD On Common Core


Hi, friends! This is David Barton of WallBuilders. The current condition of education in America is abysmal. Not only is educational achievement plummeting, but every year, some 19 percent of high school seniors who graduate is completely illiterate. They can”€™t read at all but it was not always this way.

For generations, we taught students how to think. But after the progressives took over education in the early 20th century, things began to radically change. Education shifted from thinking to learning, which made the emphasis on the teachers rather than the students. And that elevated indoctrination above knowledge.

At that time, progressives also made massive changes in the way we tested students. They extended school from 8 to 12 years. They introduced graded education and they added compulsory education. Statistics prove that these changes have harmed education rather than helped it. And now the progressives are pushing common core.

In our new DVD on common core, we give you eight reasons why this current approach is so dangerous to our kids and our culture. We also show you an amazing history of education. So get this new DVD at WallBuilders.com.

Separation Of Church And State


Welcome back.  Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Lance Wallnau will be our guest a little later in the program.  Here with David and Tim right now. David, I was just thinking about what you were saying and I guess maybe we could ask the question when people say, “€œYou shouldn’t be involved in that particular and you’re too focused. You”€™re trying to be theocrats.”€ or whatever.

The question is what area of the culture do they think is not God”€™s and what area of the culture does God not belong and what area of the culture should we not be trying to take God’s principles?


Rick and Dad, let me point out, I think part of this goes back to that false doctrine that we’ve really been indoctrinated with of separation of church and state. I that for so many Christians even now, I mean secularists, you expect the heathen to be heathen.  You expect the seculars to be secular, but you don’t expect the Christians or we shouldn’t, George Barna might say we should expect the Christians to be seculars and heathen, but we shouldn’t. That’s not what we should be.


Not that he approves of that.  That’s just the way it is.


Just the reality of when you look at the polling he does with people that self-identify as Christians here in America their behavior does not reflect Christ-like behavior. But if you look at kind of the way so many people even Christians have bought into this idea of, “€œThere should be a separation of church and state.”€

Really, we’ve compartmentalized our faith from every area where, “€œFaith is great, but Faith is in a church. Faith isn”€™t a part of education, faith shouldn’t be part of government or politics, and faith really doesn’t need to be part of medicine or law.”€

What we’ve done is we’ve isolated faith to where faith only fits in this little box and category which was kind of the idea behind the separation of church and state as it’s being currently taught and used.

Take God’s Principles Into All Aspects Of Life


And if we buy into that, boy, have we helped the secularists. They don’t need to hire more people, they just need more Christians who think every aspect of the culture should be secular except for just church.


It basically neuters their opposition, right?


It does. If we”€™ll buy into their philosophy that makes it so much easier for them to make us all secularist. But one of the guys who’s kind of called us out, and is really good at this, is Lance Wallnau.

Lance has a number of best-selling books, great business guy, really sharp, articulate. He understands thinking and logic and apologetics. And he’s one of the guys that early on, back when Christians were saying, “€œI don’t know about this.”€ He came out with being a guy that was for Trump. There were very few evangelicals that were doing that at the time he came out with it.

He had good reason, good basis for it, and now that the election has happened and Trump is an and we’re seeing things happening with Trump that really a lot of evangelicals said, “€œOnly hope for in their wildest dream.”€ And thought, “€œMaybe we got a shot at this if we get one of the evangelical guys in.”€ They’re seeing Trump doing more stuff than the evangelicals would have.

This book that Lance did on The Chaos Candidate that Trump is really the chaos candidate and the chaos president. He has some great insights on this and really how this helps in many ways move that seven mountain philosophy forward of being able to take God’s principles into all aspects of life and then this principle and government of all places through a god that most of us would never have chosen to be the guy that God would use to move these principles forward.


Lance Wallnau, our guest”€™s book came out just a few months ago, God’s Chaos Candidate. Stay with us here on WallBuilders Live.

Moment From America”€™s History


This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. Crime is one of America’s most serious problems today.  Its effects reach not only the direct victims of violence but even those who have not been attacked. The concern for crime has not been limited to this century, however. Our Founding Fathers were also concerned about it. Yet, the effects of crime unquestionably were much less in their generation. So what was their deterrent to crime?

Signer of the Constitution, James McHenry, answered that question. He explained, “€œThe Holy Scriptures can alone secure to society order and peace. In vain, without the Bible, we increased penal laws and draw protections around our institutions. Bibles are strong defenses, where they abound men cannot pursue wicked courses.”€

Founding Father James McHenry believed that widely teaching the Bible was the best means to deter crime. For more information on God’s hand in American history contact WallBuilders at 1 800 8 REBUILD.

Trump’s Godly Inner Circle


Welcome back!  Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Our special guest today, Lance Wallnau, tons of books, and you’ve probably heard or seen him on television. I’ve listened to him for years but it”€™s the first time we’ve had him on the program.  So thrilled to have you, Lance, thanks for coming on today.


It’s great to be here.


Hey man, we often talk about your seven mountains and the different things that you”€™re out there doing. But this last year, what a crazy year.  Your book title is exactly right, God’s Chaos Candidate.  You’re one of only a couple of people that predicted Donald Trump’s victory. Tell us about the book.


The book came out of the awkwardness of Trump’s rising because at the time when Trump was running he had 15 other candidates to beat. And I thought the Lord spoke to me that the 45th president would be an Isaiah 45 man.

I never even knew, to be honest with you, what Isaiah 45 was. I looked it up and it talks about Cyrus. That’s where you’ll hear people talking about it now, but that was originally when I started launching the idea that God’s going to put somebody that’s not our traditional evangelical in because he will have the world that will have the meriting to go be a wrecking ball to that which the end of what the devil’s been doing for the last two decades in American culture.

That includes media, academia, and big business. And so Trump literally, I mean, I think there’s no question about it, the guy has been the most unorthodox candidate in history and he’ll continue to be unorthodox because he’s not playing by the typical, conservative, evangelical playbook.


No doubt. I”€™ve got to tell you, I”€™ve never been so glad to have been so wrong about what he would do. I was definitely not a supporter of his in the in the primary.  We got definitely got onboard when it came down to just him or Hillary. But I am blown away with the things that he’s doing and the people he’s surrounded himself with. He’s put some Godly people in his inner circle.

Trump Is The Only One Who Could Pull This Off


Not only godly, but he himself is a bit of an exotic species, but he’s surrounded himself with individuals who are all results oriented experts in their field. He didn’t go pick one of establishment personality. Basically, he called up and challenged peers and said, “€œI’m serving.  Now I need you to tap into here to serve America also.”€

This is one of the most extraordinary cabinets.  And in a way, it’s an awkward one because these are all guys like Trump. These are people who have made their way by being mavericks or independent of the system and build their own careers. So watching them work together as a team will be a fascinating thing.


I ran into somebody last summer, can’t remember who it was, but we were at I think the state Republican convention here in Texas. This would have been around I guess June or July and they had heard you talk about potential Cyrus, that concept, as first time.  And then they said, “€œRick, man you gotta go listen to Lance and what he said on this.”€

Because the at time I was licking my wounds and saying, “€œI don’t know, I don’t know.”€ And it really got me thinking, though, that I’m not so sure if we’d had what we typically would expect from an evangelical candidate that they could do a lot of the stuff that he’s doing right now.


Let there be no doubt. Can you imagine Mike Huckabee or Ted Cruz calling upon spiritising faith in the inner city and talking about how the answer’s going to be tapping into the faith community?

Nobody expects Donald Trump to be promoting a Godly cause. So he so secularly steeped in a certain stereotype that he can get- you know, when I knew it was going to happen when he had that dust up with the pope, and he made this strange statement, “€œI’m a Christian and I’m proud of it.”€

I cannot imagine an actual evangelical getting into an altercation with the Vatican and shouting, “I’m a Christian and I’m proud of it!” The only person that could pull that off would be Donald Trump.

Huge Success


Yeah, I think you’re right. Now, the book God’s Chaos Candidate, they can get it at your website, I’m assuming, LanceWallnau.com?


Amazon.  It’s amazing.  The book was only out for 30 days and hit like 30 or 40 thousand sales, so like massive. But I grab it because it pretty much predicts the Chaos President. Now the Chaos Candidate has become the Chaos President. And we are in the cycle that I predicted which is the fourth crucible.  America’s crucible, defining what kind of nation we’re going to be.


Now, you were tuned into this partly because of what you do in the different seven mountains but specifically, the government mountain.  Seems like God”€™s really called your heart to influence that particular area.

For some of new our listeners, we’ve had a lot of stations and whatnot, can you just explain that for them and what you mean by the seven mountains and specifically what the government mountain is and why it needs to be influenced right now?

The Seven Mountains


Sure, well you know in Isaiah 45, witnessing that in the Dead Sea Scrolls and these two agents, the translation for what I believe Trump is the type of fulfillment, “€œI will go before you and make the crooked mountains straight.”€ That’s the translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Literally, the mountains are the seven spheres that shape culture. What the devil’s been brilliant at doing, from my perspective as a Christian, he’s been brilliant at taking media and infesting it with a certain ideology.

Academia with a socialist ideology, Hollywood or big entertainment with a certain ideology, which is super pro-LGBT causes. When you take the campuses and the media and you take the entertainment, that’s upstream.  You’re going to get politics. When you get politics you’re going to get the big business in your in your back pocket.

So what we are up against right now is seven mountains, which primarily is the church and family, and then you’ve got your academics, and then your government, your media, your entertainment, and business. Those seven spheres, in any nation, can disciple a nation, can shape a culture, and at the top of those mountains are elites that are gates of influence.

Whoever occupies the gates can control the traffic. So the church is called against the gates of hell. What we mostly do is we run around facing enemies of what we perceive to be the church. But the truth is, our real enemies are the ones that are shaping laws, shaping media, and shaping the next generation.

We should be moving to the top of these mountains. Christians are called to go into proximity to the gates of hell. That’s why they’re showing up in government. They should be showing up in journalism. That’s why I’m fascinated by this. The alternate media sources that are breaking out that are allowing Conservatives a place to go.

David Barton is one them. There are places where Christians and Conservatives can go to get coherent perspectives outside of the manipulation of those seven mountains as they’re presently occupied.

Why Trump Won


Have you seen a shift yet? As long as you’ve been doing this, I mean for a long time the church only ran to the church realm and left and was afraid to go into government, and business, and politics, and media, and journalism, and the things you’re talking about. Almost like, “€œWell that’s an evil arena. Shouldn’t be over there.”€ Kind of mentality. Have you seen a big enough shift yet that Christians are putting that aside and saying, “€œWait a minute, it’s all the Lord’s, the earth is lord’s and the fullness thereof.”€


I’ll tell you what did it.  What did it was, most of us still don’t realize that people who voted for Trump, including those that aren’t considered classical evangelicals, they voted for Trump because they believed we were losing the country.

Elites laugh at it,  he leads. Laugh at it, they mock us. They make fun of us but there was enough widespread belief that if Hillary had been elected president it would have been the loss of America as we have known it. And that fear even though it’s outside the realm of where the establishment and the media is that fear hit the church as well.

As you know, 83-84 percent showed up in voting was one of the most massive turnouts we ever had. Not because of the virtue of the candidate but because of the anxiety over the alternative.   So when you had this happen Barna has great data, says that five years ago 90 percent of the church surveyed said that they didn’t want politics in their pulpit. Now 90 percent of the pew are saying, “€œWe want our church to inform us on the word of God regarding the current events affecting the nation and politics.”€


And pastors are responding. There’s more and more of them that are beginning to do that.

The Underground


Well, absolutely, and quite frankly, I would say that the greatest thing the congregation can do is to keep putting pressure on the pastors to have opinions. The nature of the ministry in the last 10 years has been to operate with a kind of, I hate to say, entrepreneurial focus of building the church and eschewing controversy. Now the church really needs to be challenging its leaders to be bold and clear regarding the controversial issues.


Man, I hate to do this.  We’re going to run out of time. But I want to at least get a little bit from you on that on the 7M mandate and messaging. Folks can find out more on your website but give us at least a taste of it.


So here’s the deal.  Right now I’m watching with great anxiety how the Left is organizing aggressively in town halls. They have the budget.  They’ve got the money.  I’d look at the money sources, hundreds of millions of dollars to fund protest movements and organizations.

So I started up a thing called, “€œThe 7M Underground.”€ You can go to 7munderground.com and check it out. It’s literally underneath each mountain from journalism to entertainment, that I’m working with producers, directors, attorneys, politicians, economists, the Trump transition team.

I’m working with believers that I call Ninja Sheep.  Those are believers that are actual believers but have to maintain discretion with their public profile. And what we want to do is we want to re-install a culture that honors God.   And that defines again a morality that’s essential to the survival of America as a Christian-influenced nation.

So the underground is where we meet and we basically are now mobilized nationwide believers to intercede, pray, and be informed and then show up at the decisive flashpoints in culture where there can be a presence behind what Trump’s assignment is.  So it’s pretty exciting.


It’s 7MUnderground.com.  Just pulled it up as you were talking. Easy to go on there. Folks can put their e-mail in and then get informed on how they can be a part of it.




Good stuff. We’ll have links both to 7MUnderground.com and to LanceWallnau.com. I just really appreciate you coming on Lance. Let’s get you back again soon. Appreciate your work out there.


I look forward to talking to you about it. Thank you, brother.


Stay with us folks.  We”€™ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Truth Be Told With Tim Barton and David Pate


Hi, this is Tim Barton from WallBuilders and we are battling culture and attack on truth.  In fact, the majority of Americans now no longer believe that there are absolutes and that absolute truth does not exist. Well, we are being bombarded from an existentialist, a postmodern, a humanistic, and a secular worldview that tells us the truth is how we define it. Truth is what we imagine, truth is what we believe.

Well, friends, I can tell you that’s not the way it works. In fact, God defined truth in the Word of God and laid out very clearly what it is. And we have great examples from history. They show us some things work and some things don’t work. What we’ve done a while ago is to try to help combat this attack against truth.  

We started a conference called Truth Be Told.  One of the other speakers, David Pate, and myself team up and we go around from city to city talking about cultural issues but looking at it from a Biblical perspective and from American history seeing the examples. And so if you want to learn more about how we can apply truth to various issues of culture you can go visit our website, WallBuilders.com  and look for information on Truth Be Told. Friends, in a time when truth is being attacked, it’s time for truth to be told.

A Whole New Paradigm


Welcome back.  Thanks for staying with us on WallBuilders Live. Back with David and Tim Barton. Thanks to Lance Wallnau for joining us today. What he said guys, exactly right. God’s using Trump in a way I’m not sure he could have used even with some of the guys we would have rather had there. Well, not that he couldn”€™t, I shouldn’t have said it that way.  He could do anything he wants, right? But still, you know what I’m saying.


But he’s exactly right.  If Huckabee or Cruz or somebody else had done the kind of things that Trump is doing you would certainly have the theocracy ya’ll going now. They’re actually making that claim with Trump that his executive order protecting religious liberty and the rights of conscience, he’s becoming a theocrat. That’s going to be really hard to convince most Americans that Trump is a theocrat. And you know to take on the Pope and the way that he did I’m not sure any Evangelical would have.




Exactly.I love what he said, “€œTrump is an exotic species.”€ That’s exactly right.


That is an accurate statement actually. That’s a great statement.


The other thing, I hadn”€™t said it in these words, but I’ve been telling people you know Tim and I’ve made a bunch of trips to D.C. since the election. We’ve been called there for a number of times.  We”€™ve got several more trips coming up.

The aggressiveness that we’re seeing in Congress and the president and the executive cabinet departments trying to move forward.  I’ve been telling people I’ve never seen this much activity in this much offensive mindedness ever in my lifetime in D.C.

I like the way Lance said it, “€œTrump has surrounded himself with results-oriented people.”€ What we’ve done in previous administrations, we surround ourselves with experience. Ok, you’ve got a lot of experience, but you don’t have many results. What he has done is he has surrounded himself with people who get results in various areas. That by itself has already transformed the thinking in DC to where that we’re now starting to judge by results not by experience. And that’s that’s just a whole new paradigm.

Getting Some Results


If we could get people to think like that more than they’ll reject liberal policies because they’ll see the bad results that are destroying the country. Which is kind of what’s happening, I mean we’re seeing more and more, that is a have to live with the consequences of some very bad decisions they’re saying, “€œI want something different.”€ So we can show them good results from good policies.


You’re exactly right, Rick. And by the way, looking at the results we keep seeing these results that we want to see.  I loved what Lance said about the church, “€œThe greatest thing the congregations can do is keep putting pressure on their pastors to have opinions.”€ That’s a great way of saying it.

You know pastors need to have opinions, express those opinions, their opinions should be based on the Bible, and the congregation needs to hear those opinions because there are all sorts of opinions out there. But somebody who is grounded in the truth needs to be telling those opinions.

I also loved what he said about how Christians are called to go into proximity to the gates of hell. Well, that goes back to what Jesus told Peter and Matthew 16 the gates of Hell are going to rebel against you.

Well, you don’t know that unless you get close to the gates of Hell. And so we’ve got to start going into those areas. And we got the promise of Jesus at the gates of Hell are not going to prevail. So let’s let’s go after, let’s get offensive minded here, let’s get some results. And the church can do that but we’ve just got to change the way we think about this. Trump maybe is the one helping us do that, of all people. I don’t think we would have chosen Trump to be the guy to help us change our thinking.


Right, we’re glad to see it happening, no doubt about it. Well, thanks for listening today folks.  you’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.