A United Nation of Individuals, Not Groups to be Polarized Against Each Other.Â Â Are we doing thingsÂ God’s way or the World’s Way?Â Â Tim Brooks joins us as he explains that there are only two sides to every issue. There is God”s side and the world”s side. You are either for God, or you are against Him. The truth and solution to every issue is found in the Bible. Each one of us must commit to the diligent study and application of God”s Word to every single area of our lives.
Air Date:Â 10/30/2017
Guests: Tim Brooks, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Â However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Faith And The Culture
Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture, this is WallBuilders Live! Where we”re talking about today”s hottest topics on policy, and faith, and the culture, always from a Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.
We’re doing that today with David Barton. He”s America’s premier historian and the founder of WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor, and the president of WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator.
You can find out about all three of us, and the program, and the ministry at WallBuilders.com and WallBuildersLive.com. Two great tools for you there. Check them out online.
Later in the program, Tim Brooks, one of our favorite pastors is going to be with us. David, Tim, of course, all these issues addressing this faith, and politics faith and the culture, we seem to be getting separated in the culture rather than the “Out of many–Â one.”
Today We are Being Split into Groups and Categories
David, you’ve talked a lot about the deconstruction and the different ways that the leftist are trying to split us into these different categories of people, instead of all being Americans.
Yeah you know the Declaration goes back to, “All men are created equal. Â They’re endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; among which are life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.” Our philosophy is that- God made you, and because God made you, you get a certain set of rights just because you’re a human being.
There’s nothing in there that says gender. There’s nothing in that says geographic location. If you’re from the south you get more rights, in the middle colonies who gets more- there’s none of that. Â It’s a you’re an individual. We look at you as an individual.
And you know guys, this is something that especially for my generation. Whether it’s Millennials, or the generation under me, Generation Z, Â this is definitely contrary to what we are learning in culture. What we are learning is there are so many different groups of people. And to say classes almost seems weird for what Millennials and Gen. Z are learning- that we wouldn’t say, “No, there are not classes of people.”
But when you look at the way they’re treated, it almost is like there are classes of people. Right? Where if you’re transgender, well, you’re automatically protected. If you’re a feminist, now not a female, but if you’re a feminist you have different rights than if you are this, you know, whatever kind of male.
We Aren”t Learning that We have Intrinsic Value Given by Creator God
We are learning that there are such unique and distinctive groups that we don’t learn that, “No, it’s not- “ Â There’s a God who created us in His image. Â And therefore, we have intrinsic value because we were made in the image of God. Â God gave us rights. Â And government’s job is to protect every individual’s rights that was given to them by God.””
That’s not what we learn. We learn that there are different kinds of people, and that you have to protect their specific kind. And so if they’re transgender, or you know you really can fill in the blank, whatever you want to talk about. Â The alphabet soup of the LGBT, whatever it is.
And if you’re in the category of the majority, then you really don’t have”¦ Â You”re the lowest class.
Yeah, well right. So you are not in a protected class at that point. Because you are the oppressor. So if anything goes wrong- it’s your fault. And it’s interesting how the oppressor changes based on the group. Because if it’s for women, well then all males are the oppressor. Now wait a second, I thought that we’re supposed to protect the minorities.
So what about the minority males? “Well, well no. They are oppressed also- but they’re oppressed by a different group.” And so we really are into this groupthink. Â Which does- instead of us being able to be united- you know where Paul says that “in Christ, there’s no Jew there’s no Gentile.” Right? “There’s no Â slave or free.” We are all one in Christ. We don’t learn that in America we are unified.
People are Being Indoctrinated with Group Think Â
We learn that there are different groups, and based on the group you are in- that’s where your value comes.
And that’s the way we do our tax policy. We have five different groups.
And depending which group you’re in, we’ll treat you different from other groups.
Just those five income categories- then you have all kinds of exceptions depending on your group.
And thousands of those.
And you have the same with immigration policy. “We want this group coming, but not-“ Well, it used to be all about individuals. To be an immigrant into America you had to have a sponsor. They had to vouch for your character, and you had to have an employer saying, “Yep, I’ve got a job waiting for them when they get here.” And it was all about neighborhood. This neighborhood you’re going to move into, and this is the character they’re looking for.
It”s Not About Superficial Things, God Looks on the Heart
It wasn’t about the superficial things that we look at now. We’re told and 1 Samuel, God says, “I don’t look on the outside. Â I look on the inside. You guys are the ones to look on the outside that ain’t me.”
And so what we get is- you can either think God”s way, or you can think man’s way. And we are trained specifically right now to think man’s way, and not God’s way.Â We don’t see people the way God sees them.Â Â We look at all the superficial characteristics.
I love the way we used to do it differently. We’ve mentioned this before, but it’s worth reading again. We have an immigration book that came out 1919, it was reprinted 1941. Â Waves of immigrants coming to America. And so this book was put out to show really, “If you want to come to America, here’s what you need to know to be an American.” And it’s such a different approach from what we have right now.
Stay right there, David. Hold that quote. Â We’re going to be right back, and we’ll find out what that book says.
Stay with us! You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.
Moment From American History
This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment in American history. America is a special and unique nation. The average length for a constitution in other countries is only 17 years. But we’ve had ours for over two centuries. Our 4 percent of the world’s population produces 24 percent of the world’s gross domestic product and every year we produce more inventions and technology than the other 96 percent of the world combined.
In 1831 Alexis de Tocqueville of France came to America, traveled the country, and in his famous book, “Democracy in America” reported, Â “The position of the Americans is therefore quite exceptional. It may be believed that no Democratic people will ever be placed in a similar one.”
This is the origin of the phrase “American exceptionalism” and affirms that America is unique because of the distinctive ideas on which we’ve been based. Including inalienable rights, individuals, and limited government, and the importance of religion, and morality. For more information about American exceptionalism go to WallBuilders.com.
Quote from Immigration Book in 1919
Welcome back! Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. We’re going to have Tim Brooks with us here in just a little while.
David, you were just about to read a quote out of that immigration book. Now, this was, what year did you say it was?
It came out 1919 at the end of World War 1 when we had a huge immigration wave come in. And then it came out 1941 as World War II was starting to heat up, and we have another huge wave of immigrants coming to America. And we’re telling them, “If you want to be an immigrant to America, here’s what you need to know about coming to America.”
Here’s the quote, and this is written by an immigration chief. It says, “An American is a man who is-“
A “man.” Â Â Wow. Is that so out of date now? An American as a person. Anyway, I’ll read the quote.
“An American is a man who is greater-“ and by the way, we knew what that meant back then. Â That was mankind- that was male, female. “An American is a man who is greater in his soul than in his class, creed, political party, or the section in which he lives.
To be an American; a man must have an American soul and believe in the spiritual realities upon which America rests and out of which America was born.
America was created to unite mankind by those passions which lift, and not by the passions which separate and debase. We came to America to get rid of the things that divide and make sure of the things that unite. The man who seeks to divide men from men, group from group, interest from interest, in this great union is striking at its very heart.”
If You are Seeking to Sectionalize and Create Division, You Strike the Core of America
Wow, man, that’s powerful.
So- “If you’re trying to make groups and classes, instead of saying, “We are one.” You are striking at the core of what makes America America,”- is what we used to tell people.
That”s what we- and by the way, we’ve got a great pastor friend who’s saying the same thing today. And it goes back to this thing that. Â “You can either think the way God thinks, or you can think the way man thinks.” There are only two ways. And if you think the way God thinks, then you get a different result. And so right now we’re not looking at- as Paul said, “We’re all of one blood.” We’re not looking at Revelations 7:9 where it says that “all the tribes are His children.”
We don’t look at that. We look at the differences rather than things that unite. But Pastor Tim Brooks from Arkansas, from Christian Ministries Arkansas, we have him on from time to time. Â Great guy.
By the way, he runs Brookhill Camp as well, where they run 2,000 kids a year through that camp. They really get good good Biblical thinking there, good training. But Tim Brooks is a great guy to address this question of how to look at issues like this.
And a wealth of wisdom, always enjoy having Tim. Tim Brooks, our special guest today. Stay with us folks. We”ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.
Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution but just felt like, man, the classes are boring or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago or I don’t know where to start? People want to know. But it gets frustrating because you don’t know where to look for truth about the Constitution either.
Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. It’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the Constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the Cradle of Liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders” library where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.
We call it the QuickStart guide to the Constitution because in just a few hours through these videos you will learn the Citizen’s Guide to America’s Constitution. Â You’ll learn what you need to do to help save our Constitutional Republic. It’s fun! It’s entertaining! And it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now at WallBuilders.com.
There Are Only Two Sides To Every Issue
Welcome back! Thanks for staying with us on WallBuilders Live. Tim Brooks, our good friend is back with us. Pastor Brooks, always good to have you, bro.
Oh man, it’s just great being with you! I always like being on this show.
Well, I love your application of Biblical worldview to real life. Â Not just theory. Â Actually saying, “Here’s how you live life. Here’s how you take God’s word and go out there, and apply it to your family, your business, whatever it is that you’re doing.”
And Tim said, “Man,” -the other Tim, Tim Barton, said, “Brooks has this great sermon on how there are only two sides to every issue out there. Â We tend to complicate things in this world of relativism today.”
It”s amazing. Â I mean it’s just amazing to me how complicated, and how diverse, how divided. I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but unless you are a Native American Indian- you came from somewhere else. All of us Dutch, Swedish, German, Irish, African. Â And for previous generations you never heard, “I”m Irish American,” or “I”m Dutch American.”
Previous Generations Had No Hyphenated Americans
No one ever demanded Dutch History Month or Irish history taught in school. When our ancestors became legal citizens, they were Americans and proud of it. Â And regardless of the physical features of the country that we all came from, we were Americans.
And we’ve never elected a president by 100 percent of the vote. Everybody in the country was just thrilled that was our president. We’ve always had disagreements and people who disagreed. And we’ve always had that. But nobody ever took a knee for a National Anthem. We”re proud to be Americans.
I mean we were well aware of the fact that- you can’t make 10 or 20 million dollars playing a ball game in any other country in the world except America. And sure, we disagree with the president on this issue or that issue. Â We’ve all got disagreements, but we’re proud to be an American.
When we”re divided-
Yeah, there’s always been issues you’ve been upset with your government about. Or you wanted to change.
Now We are Divided By Background and Heritage
Or you were even willing to go march in the streets to try to get it changed. But that’s very different from actually saying I’m going to disrespect the flag that stands for-
That”s right, my goodness. And you know, now we’re divided over our background and our heritage. We’re also divided over ideas; the right, the left, the liberal, the conservative. We’re divided over genders, women’s rights. Now colleges advertising housing for 37 genders.
I’ve done a little biology, a little science. I didn”t know we’re 37 genders. Â But that’s a whole nother subject. We”re divided over genders, and we’re just divided. Â We’re divided.
Anytime You Have a Question, Go to the Bible
And anytime I get a question, Rick, in my life, anytime I”m, “What is up with all this?” You go to the Bible. You go to the Bible and find out, “How I’m supposed to think?”
And when I just started opening the Bible, so what does the Bible say about this? It is very clear. It is very clear. The kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world. And that’s one of the most talked about topics throughout the Bible.
You’re either for me, or you’re against me. You’re either thinking with, aligning with, conforming to, promoting, furthering the kingdom of God. Â Or you’re aligning with and promoting the kingdom of the world. And there’s not any other differentiation. Galatians 3:28 says, “There’s no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, males or females, you’re one.”
And there are not all these sides. There”s not African, and Dutch, and Irish, and Swedish. Â In God’s eyes, there are not economic differences. In God’s eyes, there are not gender differences. We are either on God’s side, or we’re not on God’s side. There are two sides. That’s just all the Bible says.
Kingdom of God Perspective
So really as a Christian in America, you have two reasons to be brought together and say, regardless of differences, and background, and all those things- both from a “kingdom of God perspective.” Â And as a “We’re an American. Â Not a hyphenated American perspective.” Â Â Two reasons to come together.
We really are. And God just sees two sides. He doesn’t see all of these sides. You know now almost any news show you turned on TV; you’re going to have two people, or three people, or five people sitting around all arguing. And God doesn’t see it that way. Â There are two sides.
Now throughout the Bible, those two sides are identified by wheat-chaff, sheep-goats, light-dark, good pigs-bad pigs, good grain-thorns and thistles, good fruit-bad fruit. Regardless of the example, Rick, there are two sides. And that’s the way the Bible sees this. To the let where our ancestors originated from, let that divide us. That doesn’t- God doesn’t see it that way.
How Is It that Some “Christians” Differ on Basic Biblical Concepts?
How is it, Tim, that now even those that say they’re on God’s side, and even use the label “Christian” have multiple views on very basic ideas? Even whether there’s a heaven or hell. Â Even whether God intended for sex to only be within a marriage between one man and one woman. So these basic concepts. Now you have people that use the label “Christian” and say “I’m on God’s side” actually differing.
Well Rick, to answer real simple. Â Romans 12:2, he warns us, “Don’t be conformed in your thinking to this world.” Don’t be conformed.
And see, instead of being conformed in our thinking by the Kingdom of God, we are conformed in our thinking by the kingdom of this world. And with every thought you think, with every thought you think you’ve got to say, “What does God think about that? What does God think about that?”
And to take the label as a “Child of God” and not think like God- James 1 says you’re deceiving yourself. You’re deceiving yourself.
We, as followers of God, have got to be transformed by the renewing of our mind to the way God thinks. And what’s sad is, Rick. Â I hear it not just in Christians. Â I hear it in pastors, coming out of the mouths of our leaders in the church.
“Wait, that”s not,” Â Â I”m thinking to myself, “That’s not where the Bible stands. You have been conformed to the thinking of this world.”
You’ve Got to Think Biblical
And you know, I hear it all the time now. “Tim you’re going to have to- This is just where the world is today. Now, Tim, you’re going to have to accept where the world is today, and you’re going to have to get your sermons in line with where our culture is.”
Well, Rick, that’s not what the Bible tells me to do. Romans 12 said don’t be conformed to the culture. You’ve got to think Biblical.
And when you do, the opposite happens. Instead of us being conformed to the world, we become salt and light that conforms the world to God. Â Brings it over to God’s side and makes the culture reflect that Biblical worldview.
The Lost Will Act Lost, But Christians Are Not to Act as the Lost
That is so true. And I’m just, I am shocked at that. Â The lost are going to think lost thoughts. I’m never shocked or concerned when somebody who doesn’t know the Lord tells a dirty joke or whatever. Â The lost are going to act lost. But what is shocking is when Christians act lost. Vote like a lost person would vote, think like a lost person would think.
My goodness, where are we when the Christians are now being conformed to the world”s way of thinking? And I face it all time. Pretty much every sermon I preach, somebody”s going to come up and say, “Well Tim, that’s just not where the world is today.” And you know they’re meaning to straighten me out. Â And I take that as a compliment.
That’s right. Well, Tim what do people do. Â We get listeners all over the country, frankly, all over the world right now, that are there saying, “OK well, I do hear things sometimes coming out of a pastor’s mouth, or out of my fellow “Christians” that just seems like it’s really the opposite of what the Bible says. Where do I go for truth?”
If they don’t have someone that’s teaching them that, just go straight to God’s Word. Start reading it and start saying, “How do I apply this to my life today?”
We Don’t Know the Word for Ourself, That”s the Problem
Well, it is shocking that we have people that base their whole life on the Bible, or say they do, and have never even read it through once- much less study it. And that’s our problem. We don’t know the Word for ourself. We just, we don’t get that.
You know, and we’re going to have to understand the importance of God’s Word in our life and as an individual. Â I’m not running any pastor down. But no pastor is perfect. You have to know the Word yourself. Â No pastor is flawless. Â No pastor is perfect. And you know whenever you are sitting under somebody teaching the Word, you need to go to Word yourself and say, “Is that what the Bible says? Is that what God thinks about this situation?”
Yeah, because we actually have now even famous, speaker-writer type folks in the Christian community, that are frankly leading people astray by saying, “Well, now I have a new view on sexuality. I have a new view- you know I think we missed this in the church. And we’ve been “judgmental”” or whatever language they use. And wow. People are flocking to them now. And it’s almost like it gives them an excuse to say, “As a Christian, I can be like the world because this leader, that was a Christian leader, is being like the world.”
Don”t Be Conformed to This World
Absolutely. And that’s what Romans 12:2 says. He warns- don’t be conformed to this world. You’ve got to watch out. Don’t be conformed to this world”s way of thinking.
And all of these sides that were on- Rick there are two sides.
And it’s very, very clear all through the Bible- there are only two sides. Those that are on God’s side, and those that are against; those that are thinking after the kingdom of God, and those that are thinking after the kingdom of this world. And that”s- there are only two sides in all of this.
We’ll have a link today to your more extended sermon on this particular topic. But folks at home, if you’re in that position where you’re going, “Where do I go for truth? OK, I’m going to go to the Word. I’m going to read the Word. Â But I also need help. Â Â I need someone to open my eyes. I’m like that guy in the New Testament that needed that.” CMChurch.com. You go listen to Tim’s sermons every week. They are absolutely great for application of God’s Word and helping you find out, “Where is, what are the two sides? Which way is God’s way? Â And which way is the world’s way?”
Tim Brooks, God bless you brother. Always a pleasure to have you. Â Look forward to the next time.
Rick, look forward to it. God bless you.
Stay with us folks! Right back with David and Tim Barton.
Hi, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders and I want to encourage all the pastors out there with a unique opportunity that we’re presenting it WallBuilders. We’re doing a special tour just for pastors that you can come and learn more about the spiritual heritage of our nation. Not just seeing the sights but understanding the significance of what they are and what they represent.
We get to go to the Capitol at night. Â And we get to see the spiritual heritage of our Founding Fathers, of who we are as a nation, where we came from. We bring in congressman that will tell you about current legislation, about our religious liberties and freedom, and what’s going on in Washington, D.C.
If you’re a pastor or if you want to recommend your pastor for this trip, you can go to our website at www.WallBuilders.com. And there’s a link that’s for scheduling. Â If you click on that link there’s a section for pastor”s briefing. There’s more information about the dates, when it’s going, and how it’s going to happen. If you want to know more about our nation, our religious liberties, our freedom, our spiritual heritage, this is a trip you want to be a part of. Â Pastors Only Briefing Trip
Listen to Tim Brooks” Podcasts
We”re back on Wallbuilders Live. Â Thanks for staying with us. And thanks to Tim Brooks for joining us today as well. We’ll have links to his sermons there. (CMChurch.com) Definitely you want to- I don’t think, I’ve only got to be there in Hot Springs with him a couple of times. But man, I love listening to his sermons online. It’s always so applicable.
You guys have got to see him a lot more live. I generally only get to hear him speak at the legislator’s conference. But I love the way God”s using him.
Well, the good thing is, that is his podcasts are out there. All of his sermons are on podcasts and they get downloaded all over the United States.
It is amazing. And he’s a guy that we bring in, as you mentioned, to speak to the legislators. Every year, he’s come in for years and years because he speaks very common sense. Â Bery good application, very down to earth guy. He’s my riding buddy. He’s a cowboy. I mean he is a team roper.
He and I disappear two, three times a year on horses, and go places we’d never been on horses. And so he”s just a great down to earth guy. He’s not the typical image that we come to think of pastors today.
He’s a very, very practical guy. Â And I loved what he was saying. You know even what we’re talking about immigration, and we didn’t have this. Â Â I mean he talks about how everything is hyphenated now.
America Became Our First Love
And I love what he said about no longer was the country from which we came our first love. Â America became our first love. You know we love the country. We came here to be part of the country, not to be a separate part of the country, and to love our other place of birth more than we loved America.
And he’s right, even though no president got 100 percent support except George Washington. We lined up behind the president because we were Americans.
And I did chuckle when he said that, because I thought, “Well, George Washington did.” And then I thought, “I miss George Washington.” It would be nice, but you know today not even George Washington would even get the 100 percent support anymore.
Oh no, not now.
Because we’re so divided as a nation.
Are you kidding? He was a slaveholder. He was a racist, a bigot. Oh, he was a drunkard. Oh, he died of syphilis and-
And he was a coward in battle-
-and ran from battle.
Oh my goodness. All these attacks against him, and so much of it because we don’t know the truth. But you’re right, Tim, made this incredible point that we don’t say, “Wait a second, we need-“
And just in case, Tim, I’m so sorry. But just in case we have new listeners that didn’t know. Â David, Tim, were kidding just now- all those things they just listed.
George Washington Was Not a Racist
Yeah, George Washington doesn’t fall into the category of hardly any of those. Now, he did own slaves, but most historians don’t consider him a racist because he did not treat his slaves in the same way that we typically are pictured with slavery.
And he was a great anti-slavery voice. He wanted to end slavery. I mean he’s the guy who signed the first federal law that said you cannot be part of the United States with any new territory if you have slaves. Nobody considers him a racist. He wanted slavery gone.
Well and so back to even what Tim points out, and we mentioned it from the immigration book. Â America was about unity. And certainly, I can even imagine people hearing, “Oh no, wait a second. I mean there was slavery, and there was racism.” There’s no doubt, there are stains in our past.
There Are Stains In Our Past
You know we have these birthmarks that obviously there are things we can point to and go, “That was terrible. Â And we never should have done that.” Now, we also can point to every nation in the history of the world, and say they also did that and that was terrible. And that’s not a downplay to say, “What we did really wasn’t that bad because everybody did it.” No, what we did was bad even if everybody else did it.
And we still pay the price for it today, no doubt.
That’s right. It’s still a terrible thing that we did, but we used to go, “Now wait a second, let’s make sure that we’re viewing things as God views them.” And one of the things that I will point to people quite often is- certainly, our nation”s had issues in the past, but every time we resolve those issues is because Christians-
Follow God”s Way, Not the World”s
Who, as Tim said, “So wait a second, let’s see God’s way, not the world”s way. Â Look at God’s way.” And God’s way solves the problems that every nation will have. And this is where- I thought it was brilliant. So often you turn on a TV show, and whether it’s Fox, or CNN, MSNBC- everybody’s got all these ideas of how do we solve all these problems? And we over complicate it.
It’s real easy. Either we’re going to do it God’s way, or not God’s way. And there’s a lot of “not God’s ways” options. But really there are only two options. Either let”s do it God’s way or not God’s way. And God’s way, as Bob McEwen says, and Rick as you pointed out- God’s ways only work every single time.
Be on The Right Side, God”s Side. God’s Way Works Every Single Time
You know this is the reality. If we would get back to embracing God’s ways, we could point to any issue in our culture today. Â We could resolve it if we would come back to going, “Wait a second, there are only two sides and I’m going to be on the right side. I’m doing it God’s way.”
Isn’t it great to know that there is truth? And that truth works. That’s so encouraging. Â When there are all these different voices out there, and all these the shifting sand and people are worried, “Is there anything that actually works?” Yes! God’s way still works.
Well, we’re out of time for today, folks. Thanks to Tim Brooks for joining us today. Thank you for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.