Gun Bill HR38:  How to get your concealed handgun license recognized in all 50 states: Erich Pratt of Gun Owners of America explains why federal legislation is needed so your concealed handgun license is recognized in all 50 states. You can ask your congressman to co-sponsor this bill to help get it passed! We are almost there, we only need a few more signers. Tune into today’s episode to find out why it is important and how to help get this bill on national reciprocity passed.

Air Date: 03/06/2017

Guests: Erich Pratt, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers.  Additionally, names may be misspelled because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.



Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture, WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about these hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture, always looking at it from Biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective.

Those three things are going to come up with the right answer on any issue. We’re doing that here with David Barton.  He’s America’s premiere historian and our founder president here at WallBuilder”€™s.  Also here with Tim Barton national speaker and pastor. And my name’s Rick Green. I’m a former Texas state representative.

You can find out more about us and the organization at and Check out both of those websites, new websites. Great information there and really easy to navigate and find what you’re looking for.  So go check them out today. and

The Right To Protect

David, Tim, I was re-reading the Constitution recently and found some things in there I had never noticed.  Even all the classes we’ve done. I”€™m going through the Bill of Rights and I didn’t realize it said, you know, you had the freedom of press while you’re in your own state, and freedom of religion but only in your own state and right to keep and bear arms but only when you’re in your home state, not when you travel to the other 12 colonies, or, now in our case, the other 49 states. It was it was shocking to me that was there.


I can’t believe you read the Constitution that many times and you didn’t see that. The first time I remember watching National Treasure and they went and got the lemon juice and they poured it on the Declaration.  They tried to heat it up and it showed the invisible ink what was there. I mean, I did that to the Constitution years ago. So, I knew that was there for a long time.


Well, it was news to me. So, it’s disappointing. I was really, I enjoy the fact that when we were in our home state we can protect our family and our loved ones, not just in our home, but when we go out to eat, or we’re traveling across the state.

I don”€™t know about you guys, but we all three do a lot of traveling.  When I have to stop and fill up for gas at midnight somewhere I’d like to know that as I’m walking to that convenience store to pay for that gas that I’ve got my good friend six-hour on my hip.

If something happens, Lord willing, able to defend the family. I should be able to do that when I go to a neighboring state as well right? Or some other state in this great union of ours. But some states I can’t do that.

We Need Reciprocity For Our Gun Licence


Your problem is you’re using common sense. You can’t mix common sense with the Constitution with the current judges that we have.


I do think we need to point out, obviously, we’re joking about the Constitution and about the application of states.


That only in your state thing, yeah, definitely. Thank you, Tim. Yes, definitely not there.


But see, what happens is, we”€™re kind of in a new period politically right now where that for constitutional, conservative, faith-based, traditional values folks, and those who like America, folks, there’s kind of a window of opportunity that we haven’t had in a number of years.

As a result, with the fact that you now have Republicans in the White House and in the Senate and in control of the House there is the opportunity to be able do a little more. That’s not a guarantee because even though Republicans have the majority they don’t have the 60 votes in the Senate and that still is a the low threshold for which you have to jump.

Having said that, they’re now introducing bills and doing things that we haven’t seen done in a number of years. One of those bills by a great congressman out of North Carolina Richard Hudson is introducing a bill on national reciprocity.

Reciprocity means that you recognize the laws of one state to another, and a general says, “€œFor me as a citizen, as I travel from one place to another if I have a contract in one state, I can go into another state.”€ That contract is not void just because I went to another state.

We Have An Inalienable Right

The same with so many things that I have.  I’ve got health insurance in one state I don’t lose it because I’ve gone into another state. So many things are transportable across state lines, except the right to defend yourself, Rick, as you pointed out.

You can defend yourself in the state of Texas. But, if I take my family into a different state then I can’t defend them. How come? The Constitution says that I have an inalienable right of self-defense. I have an inalienable right to keep and bear arms.

It’s because we have some states that don’t like the Constitution, don’t like guns. And so what’s happened is Richard Hudson has put in a bill working with some of the great gun organizations in the United States that believe in the Constitution and what it says about the Second Amendment.

Now, we have a window of opportunity where we might be able to do something about this and set aside some of this anti-constitutional stuff that’s been there on the right to defend yourself.That’s going to be a lot of fun.

So, Erich Pratt, who’s with Gun Owners of America has been working closely with the congressman on this. It”€™s right that they should because one of the premier gun groups in America, gun rights groups in America, and so it will be really fun to get the update and see we are on this new piece of legislation.


Erich Pratt, our special guest today. Stay with us.  He’ll be with us when we return on WallBuilders Live.

Avalon Project


Hey, guys, this is Tim Barton with WallBuilders. I know you hear my dad and Rick talk a lot about our Founding Fathers about the original intent of our nation, a constitutional heritage that we have. And really we’ve seen how far we slipped away from that. And I know a lot of us as we hear my dad and Rick talk think, “€œI wish there was a place that I could go where I could see these documents and I could read and learn about the Founding Fathers firsthand.  See the things they did.”€  

I want to give you some websites today that can help you accomplish that very thing. If you get online you can go to places like Library of Congress and you can look under their century of lawmaking or historical documents. You can go to the Avalon Project, to the Founders Constitution, Google Books, or even the internet archives.  

Or you can just go to We have a section for our library. And under that section, we have different subgroups for historical documents, historical writings, even a place where you can get helpful links to find out more information about other websites.  Where you can do research for yourself and find the truth for yourself. Friends, this is the time that we need to know who we are and where we came from. is a great place to go.

Shouldn”€™t We Be Able To Carry Anywhere


Welcome back.  Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. With us today from Gun Owners of America, the executive director there, Erich Pratt. Erich, thanks for your time man!


Hey, you’re very welcome. It’s great to be with you, Rick.


Thanks for all you do to defend our Second Amendment rights and just you all do a significant work around the country, national level, state level. If folks need to know more they can go to They need to join and be life members like myself and get involved in what you guys are doing.

You’ve got a very important battle happening right now in D.C. that I have to admit, even as a constitutionalist and pushing for it for the Second Amendment reasons, I’ve got a selfish motive on this one because I travel and speak and I hate going to states where I can’t carry. You’ve got an effort for a national concealed carry reciprocity bill. Tell us what that means.  Tell our listeners what that means and what they can do to help.


Absolutely!  Well, reciprocity basically means that if you are authorized to carry in one state, because we live in a union, a union of states, you should be able to carry anywhere else just like your driver’s license.

Even Though She Did Nothing Wrong This Still Happens To Her

You don’t have to get permitted in every state or specifically recognized by every state just having it in one state means that you’re good in all states. That’s really important. Gun owners held a briefing a couple of weeks ago for congressmen and their staffs. We brought in a special speaker, Shaneen Allen. She’s a resident of Philadelphia.  She had been robbed twice.  She’s a single mother of two.

She figured, “€œYou know, I need to take my own protection into account.”€ So, she, God bless her, got a gun, got a permit for that gun to carry it, and she thought she was good to go. She can now protect herself and the kids.

Well, she just assumed that concealed carry permit in Pennsylvania would be just like her driver’s license. So, she lives right next to the boarder of New Jersey.  She was getting some stuff one night for her for an upcoming birthday party for one of her children and a cop pulls her over.

Now, he never told her why.  And that’s actually a big question mark. We don’t know if it was profiling or what.  She is black. But she just volunteered the information, “€œHey I have a concealed carry permit.”€

She thought that’s what you do.  That’s what she would have done in Pennsylvania and it would have been no problem. The problem is though, New Jersey does not recognize a Pennsylvania permit.

So, here’s a woman who was doing nothing wrong in terms of aggressive or violating anybody else’s rights or attacking anyone and yet she goes to jail for over 40 days for simply exercising her Second Amendment rights.

That’s what this legislation seeks to correct. It says look, “€œIf you are a law abiding citizen and you’re authorized in one state then, as you were just saying earlier, Rick, now you’ll be able to carry that firearm in any state in the union.

The Brave Veteran, Sandy Javelle


Let me get this right.  If I fly into, let’s say Oregon right now, and I don’t have anybody there picking me up and I need to rent a car and drive to my hotel or to whatever event I’m going to, my Texas driver’s license, I can’t drive in Oregon because it’s a Texas driver’s license, there’s no reciprocity, right?

“€œI’ve gotta allow somebody there-“€ No, of course, I can drive, right? So, if I can drive a car- “€œOh, but a car so much safer than a gun.  We don’t kill as many people a year in America with cars as we- Oh await-“€


Yes, but actually we do-


A lot more, right? So, what you said about the drivers I never thought about that comparison.  You’re exactly right. I mean, if a driver’s license is reciprocal in 50 states then why not a license to carry your weapon? It’s going to protect your family.


You just hammered the nail right there. To protect yourself and your family. This has real life consequences.  At this briefing that we had for Congress a couple of weeks ago I talked about Sandy Javelle, it’s a very sad story.

He was an Army veteran from New Hampshire who was permitted to carry in New Hampshire. But the internet company he worked for had branches in New Hampshire and Massachusetts and so occasionally he would travel into Massachusetts to work.

Well, on a day after Christmas, all the workers are in there.  He’s in the Massachusetts branch.  But being the law abiding citizen that he was he would refuse to carry. He would leave his gun back on the New Hampshire side of the border, wouldn’t take it into Massachusetts.

He Could Have Stopped It

Sadly, on this particular day, in fact, this guy has his own Wikipedia page which is usually not a good thing. Michael McDermott goes through the office.  He’s upset because the IRS is garnishing his wages.  So he’s going to take it out on his fellow employees, and nobody there was armed.

Now Sandy Javelle could have been armed. I mentioned he’s an Army veteran he was also an FFL.  People say he was a very deeply religious man, a widower a father of four. Well, he was also a very brave man.

He barricaded several of his fellow employees into a room and he goes out to confront this monster. Of course, he’s totally disarmed, but he just figured he had to do something. He tries to talk this guy down.

Sadly, Michael McDermott wasn’t going to have any of it, just leveled the shotgun to his face and pulled the trigger. That day there was a mass shooting that occurred that day, Sandy Javelle was number three, four more people would die.

Sandy Javelle could have stopped that if he had not been disarmed by the laws of Massachusetts and failing to recognize a permitted, law abiding, concealed carrier from New Hampshire.

He could have had a gun that day, and he could have stopped it just like the doctor who stopped the mass shooting at a Darby hospital in 2014. Or just like Uber drivers stopped the mass shooting on a Chicago street corner in 2015. Or just like a firefighter from South Carolina stopped a mass shooting at a nearby school last year.

Mass shootings get stopped in their tracks when good people are able to protect themselves but when they’re disarmed they become victims of gun control. Thankfully, Shaneen Allen who we were just talking about earlier, didn’t have something as tragic. She only, “€œonly“€ spent 40 days in jail for simply possessing a firearm. But for Sandy Javelle it cost him his life.

People Want To Protect But Aren’t Allowed To


What a shame that it is the law itself that is disarming. I should say, “€œbad legislators”€ passing laws disarming folks instead of protecting their Second Amendment right to protect themselves and their families, they”€™re literally taking that away and in this case not just as you said for the one individual.

But for others that he could have saved, and I think that’s one thing the gun control people don’t understand, is that there are millions of us out there that are trained and take that seriously and spent a lot of time and money and effort to be trained and be prepared in case evil confronts us.

It’s not just a benefit to us and our family, it is a benefit to the community.  We can’t have and don’t want a police officer in every store and on every corner. They just physically can’t do it.

Yet, here’s all these great Americans out there willing to lay down their lives, if necessary to defend others and these people don’t want us to. So, what this bill that you’re working on with Congressman Hudson out of North Carolina.

You guys are saying, “€œHey, give these folks a chance to defend themselves, their family, and frankly, the people in your state that you aren’t protecting and allowing your citizens to protect.”€ You know, that Texan”€™s going to visit your state and be caring and be willing to protect. I mean you just saying, “€œLet people exercise their rights.”€

Self-defense Shouldn’t End At Your State Border


Yeah, people want to be safe. Rasmussen poll found that almost 70% of Americans want to live in a neighborhood where there are guns.  It’s only a small percentage of people that actually don’t feel safer with firearms.

You just look at places where people can’t protect themselves. Look at Germany, they’re being overrun by violent immigrants and the rape rate has shot through the roof. People are arming themselves with illegal guns.  You know it’s that basic sense of wanting to protect yourself.

In fact, it’s gotten so crazy in Germany one woman invented what she calls safe shorts. These are athletic shorts that a woman can pull it tight if she feels threatened and it becomes a chastity belt but also sounds a siren. The creator of this idea said, “€œWell, I wanted to develop a protection that makes women feel more secure.”€ Well, of course, that’s already been invented. That’s the 9 millimeter, a 38 caliber.

It’s the old adage, “€œGod created men and women, but Sam Colt made them equal.”€ And so that’s what Hudson is trying to do. He’s trying to make it so people can protect themselves. Not just in their homes, but the idea that your self-defense shouldn’t end at your state border.

Our Government Is Disarming These Women

The bill has over 150 co-sponsors in a little over a month. That has outstanding success. So this bill is moving real fast. People can go to our website at and get more information on this.

In fact, there’s alerts at the top of the page that people can use to email their congressmen with just a couple of clicks of the mouse. We’ve got pre-written letters addressed to each individual congressman. You just push the button and it automatically selects your congressman based on your zip code, it sends them a letter urging them to cosponsor this legislation, which is very important.

There’s still some good folks that aren’t on this bill yet. Hudson wants to get this over 218 co-sponsors. That would be half of the Congress, so we’re almost there. Relatively speaking, in just a little over a month getting 150, we have no doubt we should be able to get the 218. Then, he wants to get a vote on this and it’s sure to pass at that point.


And that’s fantastic, that’s a huge gain in a short period of time. One more thing I just wanted to add, Erich.  We talked about the individuals and the people and even in those mass shooting type situations.

The women out there, the stories unfortunately, there’s way too many of them that are capable of defending themselves with a weapon trained to do so, sometimes not allowed to do so whether it’s on a college campus or in this case when they’re traveling in another state and it is just a crime against humanity that our government is disarming these women and they end up in a very terrible situation being harmed.

You Can Make Your Voice Heard

So, this will benefit them as well. That’s a great piece of legislation that can defend our Constitution and give people the right to defend themselves. So, it’s HR38, that’s the number?


A good number, isn’t it? Yeah, HR38.

Gun Bill HR38


I love it, HR38 folks.  Like Erich said, it’s so easy.  Go to  They’ve got it all set up for you where you can just hit the clicks and I promise you, I can tell you as a former legislator it does matter.  Your voice matters.

The more that these congressmen get, the more letters, the more calls, the more of an impact it has especially to get them to sign on as a co-author, let alone to vote on that final vote.

Erich, God bless you guys for what you’re doing and I really enjoyed our conversation. Hope to get you back again soon.


I would love to. Thanks so much Rick. Take care!

Rick: is the website. That’s Erich Pratt executive director of Gun Owners of America. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. Many today assert that religion is something private, that it has no place in the public square, and that it is incompatible with government.

Well, the Founding Fathers believed exactly the opposite. They hold that religion was absolutely necessary in order to maintain our free system of government. For example, John Adams declared, “€œWe have no government armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality religion.”€

And signer of the Declaration, Benjamin Rush similarly affirmed, “€œWithout religion, there can be no virtue and without virtue, there can be no liberty and liberty is the object and life of all Republican governments.”€

The Founding Fathers understood that limited government required public morality from the people and that public morality was produced by the Christian religion. For more information about the Founding Fathers using religion in public life go to

Send A Message To Your Congressman


We’re back on WallBuilders Live.  Thanks for staying with us. Back with David and Tim Barton. Thanks to Erich Pratt for joining us from Gun Owners of America. David, as he was talking, I was thinking back to what you said at the beginning of the program just kind of the atmosphere and the opportunities that are before us right now 2017.

I guess this is like a lot of pieces of legislation that even if had been filed in the last eight years everybody knew the president would veto it, so there was no hope it would pass. Whereas now, you’ve got a major piece of constitutional defense legislation here that’s going to give us the right to defend our family.  People actually have a lot of hope that there’s a good chance of getting a pass and having a president that will sign it.


Well, the fact you have 150 congressional co-sponsors in one month. That is huge. There’s a lot of bills that never get more than 20 or 30 congressional co-sponsors.  So the fact you got 150 folks already on and only worked for one month. As Erich points out, if he gets 218, that’s how many votes it takes to win this thing in the House and so it’s a sure thing to go to the Senate.

Now, what happens, and I love what Erich said, go to their website click at the top their web page.  It will connect you to your congressman you can send the message to him right there. It’s an individual message.  You can let your voice be heard.

The Right To Keep And Bear Arms

It’s one of the easiest ways to engage, and it’s an individual voice.  It’s not like signing a petition which often is very, very ineffective. This is you communicating directly with your congressmen. Congressmen are pretty sensitive to not taking e-mails and not taking things that don’t have the right zip code if they’re not one of your constituents.  They really don’t care to hear from them because they don’t represent you.

So the fact that Erich has got this set up to work goes directly to your congressman is a huge deal. When you ask your congressman to co-sponsor this, and as he points out, we need more than the 150. There’s some others that ought to be on there.  Maybe they will be on there, and should be on there by the time this gets done. That’s something that’s really easy for us individually be able to do.

So I encourage folks to do that. Go to  Get up there on top find out who your congressman is and you can send a simple message on this is just with the click of a mouse.


We”€™ll, as always, make it easier.  There will be a link at and you can jump directly to that page and participate in that way. This affects everybody-


Rick, let me let me jump in. How can you say it affects everybody when it”€™s the Constitution that gives everybody the right to keep and bear arms? What do you mean it effects- you know, and I say that facetiously. Can you imagine we’re having to pass a law, a statute, to uphold what the Constitution already guarantees?

This Is Why It”€™s A God Given Right

One of the pieces we have at WallBuilders is a piece called, Exceptional which looks at the 161 words in the Declaration on which the entire Constitution is built. It sets forth six principles of government.

The first is, there’s a creator, God. The second is the creator, God, gives certain guaranteed sets of rights to mankind that no human government is allowed to regulate. And the third is that government exists primarily to protect those rights.

Well, guess what? One of those rights they specifically listed was the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms. You have a right of self-defense and all this bill does is say, “€œHey, we’re just standing with what the Constitution says. We think everybody has a right to defend themselves.”€

Erich gave those great examples, such as that lady in Philadelphia who thought she was fine by declaring what she had and she thought that it was reciprocity like a driver’s license.  You should be able to do that.

Then, on the other hand, the guy who got killed because in Massachusetts.  He’s not able to have his gun with him. And so instead of saving several other lives, four more were killed after that incident, that he could have stopped right there.

And then Erich went through and rattled off the list of all these mass shootings that have been stopped and prevented because somebody had a gun. That’s why it’s a God given right.  You have the right to defend yourself. We’re having to pass legislation to do that, but the good news is that we should be able to get this passed fairly easily and that’s going to be good.


Got to take quick break.  We’ll come back with our closing segment today. Stay with us.  You’re listening to WallBuilders Live!

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There Is No Doubt The American People Want This


We”€™re back on WallBuilders Live.  Thanks for staying with us. David, you were just talking about how having that many authors is a big deal. Does that guarantee passage? What does it really mean for us?


No, it doesn’t guarantee passage. We”€™ve covered on Good News Fridays the polling out there and the massive support that there is by citizens across the United States to be able to defend and protect themselves. What’s happened with sales of guns, how they’ve just shot through the roof, particularly with ladies.

So there is there’s huge masses in support for this. But over on the Senate side, you have the process that you have to follow.  And just because Republicans have the House and the Senate and the presidency doesn’t mean that they can pass this bill. Because on the Senate side there is a rule that says that you have to have 60 senators to bring this thing to the floor.

That means you’re going to have to get eight Democrats to agree to have reciprocity. And right now, I don’t think you’ll find one Democrat who will agree to that. Now, what that means is, this may not get passed. People say, “€œOh, the Republicans have control.  They didn’t get it passed?”€ Yeah, but the Republicans do have to follow the rules, unlike the previous administration.

What Could Happen In Two Years From Now

They don’t think you should have a pen and a phone to go around the Constitution. They’ll actually try to follow it. So, in doing that, that means that the rules and the process, and it”€™s the Constitution that says, “€œEach body gets to set up its own rules.”€ So, under the Constitution, the Senate has set up these rules that say, “€œ60 votes.”€

Now, here’s where we get a shot at it. Two years from now we have midterm elections. One-third of the Senate is up for re-election according to the Constitution. But in this particular election out of the 33 senators to be up for re-election 25 of them will be Democrats. And if people really want to see this kind of stuff get passed they’re going to have to take out some of those Democratic senators. They’re going to have to get enough Republicans in there that you can get 60. And if he can get 60 Republicans, and if he can keep the House, and you’ll have the president still, you can for the first time in maybe 40 years start really reforming government in a significant way preserving the rights of the people and getting back to constitutional passage of laws, and that would be terrific.

But that’s going to be up to us in midterm elections. In the meantime, we can do everything we can to pressure and get this bill through and onto the president’s desk.


Definitely, you’re saying, “€œJust because we had some victories in this last election doesn’t mean go home and forget about it.”€ It means a year from now, and even now, start working on those 2018 elections.  It’s going to be so important that we have some more victories then in order to really push this stuff over the finish line.

So folks, stay involved.  Keep listening.  Keep getting involved.  Do your part to preserve that freedom for the next generation. What great opportunities we have this year.  Hope you’re engaging them. Thanks for listening today to WallBuilders Live!