Sheepdogs In The Church “€“ With Brad Ackman: Can a good guy with a gun really stop a bad guy with a gun if they”€™re not trained and prepared? Today Brad Ackman shares how pastors can live out the wisdom of Proverbs when they are prudent, foresee danger, and take precautions. Tune in to hear this important message!

Air Date: 01/29/2020

Guest: Brad Ackman

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture

Rick Green: Welcome to Intersection of Faith and the Culture, it’s Wall Builders Live.  We’re taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. I don’t know if there is a more hotter, what’s the right grammar there? Anyway, if there’s a hotter topic than the issue of self-defense and firearms. We’ve been talking about it this week quite a bit. Earlier this week we talked about the biblical perspective of self-defense and the constitutional perspective of self-defense. We had the legislators on that passed the law in Texas to allow for carrying in churches. We talked about why that is important. And yesterday we had Brad Ackman on talking about the importance of being trained correctly to carry your firearm and to be ready to defend yourself and your family and just ran out of time. We wanted to get Brad back to talk more, and so we’re going to have him on with us a little later in the program today again. So I encourage you to listen to yesterday’s program and the day before. If you miss them, they are available on our website right now,

The other things you can find out there at a little bit more about our program. David Barton is America’s premier historian and the founder of Wall Builders, Tim Barton, the national speaker, and pastor and president of Wall Builders. My name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s constitution coach. You can find out more about all three of us there at the website and listen to some of the archives of programs we’ve done in the previous weeks.

Helpful Resources Available

We’ve got a lot of foundations of freedom Thursday programs available for you there. Diving further into those constitutional principles and the things that make a nation great. The good news Friday programs are available to you there as well. Just a great pick me up as you hear the good news and the victories across the country that David and Tim shared with us.

And then interviews typically Monday through Wednesday were done this week. So check out those archives, you can do the podcast on your app, on your phone, or however you want to listen, but there’s just a lot of wealth of information there at the website. I would also challenge you as you’re at the website, click on that contribute button. Just take a second today to make a onetime or monthly contribution to Wall Builders Live. It is a great investment in freedom. This is a listener supported program. It doesn’t happen without your help, and we are making a huge difference because of your contributions. We are inspiring and equipping a generation of Americans, multiple generations to be frank, young leaders preparing to accept the torch of freedom. Leaders of today, we’ll have training on how to defend and protect that torch of freedom, and that includes legislators and pastors and citizens just like yourself and making sure that we know what to do.

I mean, the system works, but we’ve got to work the system and some people feel like there’s nothing they can do. What can I do to defend freedom? Listen, you can be the catalyst in your community to preserve freedom. You can be the catalyst to restore biblical and constitutional principles. So listen to Wall Builders Live, we will equip you on how to do that.

The Wise Prepare

We’re going to take a quick break when we come back. Brad Ackman back with us to talk about how you can defend yourself and your family and how important it is for churches to be prepared to have a good security team and have that security team trained. So pastors, let’s make sure as shepherds that we are protecting the flock, that we have some sheepdogs in that congregation to protect. Lord willing, the wolf does not ever show up at your house of worship, but we’re seeing it happen more and more across the country and we need to follow that proverb that says that, “the wise do not just walk into that danger. Let’s not be the simpleton that walk into it and pay the price.” Let’s make sure we’re the wise men and women that are prepared and seek refuge, in this case, being prepared to defend ourselves and our families. Quick break. We’ll be right back on Wall Builders Live.

Patriot Academy

Tim Barton: Have you noticed the vacuum of leadership in America. We’re looking around for leaders of principal to step up and too often, no one is there. God is raising up a generation of young leaders with a passion for impacting the world around them. They’re crying out for the mentorship and leadership training they need. Patriot Academy was created to meet that need. Patriot Academy graduates now serve in State capitals around America, in the halls of Congress and business, in the film industry, in the pulpit and every area of the culture. They’re leading effectively and impacting the world around them. Patriot Academy is now expanding across the nation and now’s your chance to experience this life changing week that trains champions to change the world.

Visit for dates and locations. Our core program is still for young leaders, 16 to 25 years old, but we also now have a citizen track for adults. So visit the website today to learn more. Help us fill the void of leadership in America. Join us in training champions to change the world at

Welcome Brad Ackman

Rick Green: Welcome back to Wall Builders Love. Thanks for staying with us today. We are back now with our guest from yesterday. We ran out of time yesterday and did not get anywhere close to finishing the topic. In fact, I think we need a month of programs to even come close to that, but we’ll touch on it again. Brad Ackman back with us. He is the Director of training out at Front Sight Firearms Training Institute in Nevada and 30 years of being in this industry and training folks, hundreds of thousands of people that have come through and learn how to defend themselves and their family. And of course our family, the Green family loves Front Sight, goes out there at least six times a year. And we’ve talked about it often on the program. The Barton’s love training and as well and Tim’s been out there and also a distinguished graduate. And anyway, we love being with these guys and so thankful that they are now with us. Brad, coming on the program and this time it’s your chance to come into my house. I appreciate it, brother.

Brad Ackman: Thank you for having me, Rick.

Rick Green: And as we talked about yesterday, you’ve been doing this a long time and one of the most important things, of course you guys train on the skills of how to use the weapon, how to be safe, all those things, how to be accurate, how to be fast, all of that. But yesterday we touched on the importance of keeping the gunfight from ever happening in the first place and having that mental awareness. And you went through the color code of mental awareness, we covered all that yesterday, people can get that online.

White Settlement Shooting

But still, I want to come back to that just real quick because I had to not just learn what that was, but kind of get over the hump of, I didn’t want to be rude to people and mentioned yesterday, like this guy in White Settlement, should have been confronted in the parking lot, or at least at the door. We tend to just want to be nice and especially in our churches. And that’s who we’re talking to today, is churches learning how to protect and have some sheepdogs in the church to protect the sheep. And man, how do you get people to not be afraid to step up and engage to prevent this thing from happening in the first place?

Brad Ackman: Well, the answer to that, the short answer is role play. In our modern politically correct society, nobody wants to be rude and confront somebody. There is such hesitation to confront questionable people that we have to actually practice that, and we do it in Front Sight. And we do it with verbal challenges. For example, some questionable, sketchy looking dude is closing the distance on you, we practice verbal challenges and the basic one is you hold up your hand in the universal stop sign and you just say, “stop right there!” And just that with that authoritative tone, and he’s looking at you, you’re looking at him. “Stop right there!” And he thinks, “Holy cow, this guy means business.”

Rick Green: “This is not the guy I want to mess with.”

Preventing Disaster

Brad Ackman: Right. “There are easier victims out there, let me go find one of them,” right? So just that might stop a gun fight. Now the guy who continues to close the distance or escalates the threat, we have the next level of this, and that’s present your weapon out to the ready. You’re not pointing at him, you’re pointing it down to 45 degrees at the ready, and you yell, “stop or I’ll shoot!”

Well, that’s pretty clear. That’s the line in the sand that we were talking about yesterday. That’s conditioned red. You have laid down the law. You’ve given this guy the ultimatum. If you continue your silliness, you’re going to get shot. And also that barking out of the verbal challenges gains the attention of those around you. It turns innocent bystanders into witnesses, which is a very good thing for you when it comes time for criminal and civil liabilities, which are our major issues. You may as well have those people be witnesses on your behalf because you’re doing it right, bad guys are doing it wrong. And let’s solve this thing now.

Rick Green: How hard is it to get people to take that step, to come out of kind of this polite society mode to be willing to engage in that way? As you’ve trained so many thousands of people, have you noticed that’s a difficult thing for people to do?

Brad Ackman: So for a lot of people, it’s terrible, right? It’s like stage fright, like standing up in front of the class and delivering your first speech in eighth grade or something like that. And they hold out their hand and say, “stop right there.”

“€œStop Right There!”€

Well, you know, you got the words right, put some testosterone in it, “stop right there!” And you kind of role play through the thing and a few iterations into it, they’re doing it with some authority and that’s it. It’s just like any other training session because it’s new you, you haven’t done it, it’s new. You practice it a little bit and you get good at it. And that ability to confront will definitely save the day at some point.

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: And look, if you confront the suspicious looking guy and it turns out that you were wrong, then you know, apologize and invite him out to dinner.

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: If it turns out you were right, then there are going to be a whole lot of people thanking you. Don’t be bashful, you got to do the right thing.

Rick Green: Yeah. And again, in response to not just White Settlement, there’s been the synagogue in New York, there’s been Sutherland Springs in Texas. There’s been, I mean, multiple, multiple situations like this across the country over the last few years. So we’re, we’re talking to a lot of our folks out there that are either on a church security team, pastors that are thinking about forming a church security team, parishioners that are saying, “Hey, I want to encourage my pastor to have a church security team.”  And just saying, “Look, there is a need to pay attention to these things and to actually invest the time, money, energy into getting trained. And what Brad is talking about, what you’re saying is, from the very beginning, that team needs to be aware as  someone comes into the congregation and to, and to realize, I mean, this is a different mindset.

An Excuse to be Rude

These crazy people that would come in and want to take life like this. They’re expecting to die before it’s over and they’re going to take as many lives as they can.

Brad Ackman: That’s right. In fact, a friend of mine, I was talking to him earlier this week, and he lives not far from you, actually just outside of Austin, and he said that White Settlement has given us the excuse to be rude. And I worked that through my head a little bit, and I said, excuse, it’s given us the mandate…

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: The duty to be rude. Now here’s an option, right? Let’s say that your staff isn’t comfortable. I say your staff, church staff, whoever it may be, isn’t comfortable confronting this guy. Then call 911 and we talked about in the previous show how at national average a response time is like, you know, 11 minutes in White Settlement. It was, I think, two minutes.

Rick Green: Wow.

Brad Ackman: So in two minutes, that’s a very, very fast response time.

Rick Green: That sounds like that should have solved the problem, but even two minutes is not fast enough.

Brad Ackman: Well, the thing is, if you call them when you first noticed the bad guy in the parking lot, two minutes is great.

Rick Green: Oh yeah. You’re saying, not call them when he gets up and brandishes the gun, call them when you notice the guy in the parking lot, this is not right, this is a weird situation.

Don”€™t Wait for the Gun Fight

Brad Ackman: That’s right. Or when he hits the front door, because at that point, two minutes would have saved the day plenty of times. Even if they show up, they rouse this guy and say, “Hey, what’s going on?” And they haul them away in the silver bracelets, right? But if you wait until the guns come out and it’s literally a gun fight, well, you may as well not even call the cops because it is going to be long since over by the time they arrive. That is not the time to call 911, it’s the instant you feel things are going badly. And again, look, if you got it wrong, no harm, no foul, the cops are happy to respond. They’re there working on your behalf. They’re not going to hold it over you. They’re not going to be upset that you erroneously called 911, not for a second. Don’t be bashful. And as you mentioned, this agenda of the guys who are coming into these churches, this isn’t like the bad guy who goes into a liquor store with a rusty 38 special. He’s looking to get a hundred bucks in a a fifth of whiskey. The guy who walks into a church with an AR 15 is looking for mass murder.

Rick Green: Yep.

Brad Ackman: There is nothing you can give this guy, which will make him go away, except maybe for a hot lead injection.

Rick Green: He’s the definition of a wolf. I mean, you’re not going to talk this guy down, probably.

Brad Ackman: They are pure evil. They have no agenda other than killing as many people and probably themselves in the end. And a lot of these ended in suicide or suicide by cop.

Rick Green: Yeah.

Pure Evil

Brad Ackman: His goal is that everybody dies. And frankly, this is really similar to 911, right? Because up to that date, hijackers either wanted cash or their fellow jihadists, you know, released from prison.

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: Using an airplane as a weapon and in this case, a bomb was a totally new concept and mean, it’s just like the mass murders inside the churches is a relatively new concept. I mean, it’s not brand new, but it’s relatively new.

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: I mean, unfortunately, back in the civil rights movement, a number of churches were burned. I think it was kind of like the thing, the big statement, “let’s burn down churches,” and a few of them actually ended up in death. And then there was another round of them in 95, 96 something like that. But murdering the congregation in a mass shooting inside of a church is relatively new and we’ve got to wrap our heads around.

Rick Green: Yeah. It’s almost, there is a moment of denial, I think and maybe even in when you watch that video, I think some of those guys that was a situation.  I mean, mentally processing that this is actually happening in my church. It’s a culture shock, you just don’t, you can’t believe it’s happening.

Brad Ackman: Yeah.

Rick Green: And so frankly, the maturity and as we mentioned yesterday, that the proverb that talks about seeing danger and taking refuge, or in this case, creating refuge by being able to defend that flock is vitally important for the leaders of a church and for individuals to get trained as well.

Timing and Speed

Brad, I got to ask you about timing and just speed because that’s one of the things you guys focus on at Front Sight is a very specific training regimen to be able to present your weapon quickly and efficiently and have done that so many times that the muscle memory is there. And just that alone would have saved lives in this White Settlement shooting. And in multiple situations that we’ve seen in the news over the last couple of years.

Brad Ackman: Right.

Rick Green: Why is that such a focus on the four day training that you guys do?

Brad Ackman: Well, here’s the fundamental premise and that is what we are doing is defensive. That means the bad guy is on offense. You don’t even know it’s time to shoot until the bad guy starts this, okay? So the clock is started by him.

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: You’re already behind, you’re already in second place, right? And we saw that, just take white settlement. The whole thing started as the shotgun came out. My contention is that it should have started in the parking lot, but nonetheless. The fight really started as the shotgun was presented. So you’re already behind the power turf. You do not have the luxury of a slow presentation or draw from a holster because you’re already looking down the mussel. So there is a very narrow window, an operational window that you need to deliver that controlled pair or in the case of Jack Wilson, he had to deliver a headshot, but you have to stop the fight in a very short amount of time.

Every Gun Fight is Different

Now it changes, every gun fight a little different. We hang our hat on 1.5 seconds because statistics show us that gunfights last about two and a half to three seconds. And a second and a half controlled pair or two shots to the thoracic cavity is generally sufficient to win most gunfights, not all, and we can talk about exceptions all day. But generally that is the program that’s going to save lives. So how do you get to a 1.5 second presentation and control pair from the holster? By practice.

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: Obviously. You need to ingrain the skills and once you have them, you need to do a little bit of practice, not a ton, but you have to maintain that skill because it’s a perishable skill. You can’t just do it today and expect that skill to be with you 10 years down the road because it’s not going to be, it fades away. You need to maintain that practice and that skill level. As you say, you go to the Front Sight six times a year. You do a little bit of shooting and dry practice on your own, so you have no trouble maintaining that skill and other people should adopt that same mindset as well. You never know.

Rick Green: We try to encourage them to go, we encourage our folks when they come out and do that first time, then go once a year at least, and then train at home as well.

Brad Ackman: Sure.

Practice, Practice, Practice

Rick Green: Because we go six times as we’re bringing new groups every time. But if you at least go through that repetitive training and then do your dry practice and practicing it at home as well. But some people, they got to be thinking Brad, 1.5 seconds, I mean can most people do that? You know, I watched you on one of your videos recently, you talk about the bell curve, of all those thousands of people that have trained with you guys and I honestly thought, maybe it’s only 10% that actually achieved that at the end of the four days. That’s not the case, it’s a lot more than that, you said?

Brad Ackman: It is. It is. And as you say, it’s a bell curve. So does everybody achieve that? No. There are some who are slower, of course, at the other end, there are some who are faster, but that vast majority of our students can in fact deliver what we call a controlled pair in that second half from a concealed holster to a bad guy at a reasonable conversational distance, we use five yards, maybe it’s five feet, maybe it’s 20 feet. Who knows? Who knows how this thing’s going to shake out. But at a conversational distance, you deliver the control pair and you win the fight. Well, almost all of our students can do that, and especially if they come back and take subsequent courses, then they definitely ingrained those skills. A lot of students are brand new, as we spoke about in our previous episode.

Rick Green: Yeah.

Essential Training

Brad Ackman: A lot of students don’t, they don’t even own a gun. They come to Front Sight, they rent a gun, kind of try before you buy, and they go through the material and it’s their first exposure to it. They really don’t know, you know, handgun from magazine, from holster, from ammunition, it’s all new and that’s totally fine. They’re in the right spot.

Rick Green: That’s right.

Brad Ackman: So those people are not likely to make that time frame in the first round of training. Probably not because they’re brand new, but they certainly will their second or third iteration. And when they go home and put the polish to it on their own time, they definitely will and they’ll keep that skill level.

Rick Green: I can’t help but think about so many of these shootings in public places over the last few years, the Walmart in El Paso, the Garlic Festival out in California, that so many of these situations where, well the Walmart situation and Sutherland Springs and until Steven Willeford was able to get there, 10, 12, 15 minutes of the bad guy being, not confronted and able to take so many lives. And all I can think about is, as you mentioned the response time of the police, but you can’t expect them to be everywhere all the time and average is over 10 minutes.

Beyond Churches

So all I can think about is the importance of having hundreds of thousands of citizens getting trained, frankly, millions getting trained so that in every Walmart, in every restaurant, there’s not only a good guy with a gun, there’s a trained good guy with a gun. So this is like a mission for us. We want more people to get trained and I know you feel the same way because you’ve been doing it for 30 years.

Brad Ackman: I absolutely feel the same way. And I would go beyond churches and Walmart and Luby’s cafeteria and these other examples that are really stark and they’re great examples. But I would go beyond that and say that we need to harden, in other words, have trained individuals inside of places that are currently forbidden. Elementary schools, some universities of course, allow concealed carry, but elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, other places where guns are typically forbidden.

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: That is where the bad guys go because they know there’s going to be no resistance.

Rick Green: That’s right.

Brad Ackman: How about the Aurora, Colorado cinema? The movie theater shooting?

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: I mean, no guns allowed. “Oh, good. Well, I’ll be the only gun in here.”

Rick Green: Exactly.

Brad Ackman: And you have unfettered access to sitting ducks for the next 20 minutes. That is shameful.

Rick Green: It is.

Brad Ackman: As a society, we should be embarrassed that we allow that to happen.

Rick Green: And I Brad, there ought to be liability on the entity that prevented me from being able to carry my weapon in there, to be able to defend my family.

Brad Ackman: Totally agree.

Trained to Defend

Rick Green: If my family is injured or their lives taken because you didn’t let me bring in a weapon that I’m trained to be able to defend them with, you should be liable for allowing that to happen.

Brad Ackman: Right.

Rick Green: And I can’t believe we haven’t figured this out. After all the school shootings and all that, I can’t believe that the left still thinks the answer is to prevent the trained good guy from even being around. But I mean, you saw the responses, Joe Biden and all these guys said that this was crazy that we let people carry in churches. And even after Stephen Willeford saves lives, even after Jack Wilson saves lives, they still keep that position. [Inaudible 18:53] will work wants to take everybody to, I don’t even understand their mindset. Do they want more people to die?

Brad Ackman: Exactly. I don’t understand it either. For example, the Brady Bill, I read some sort of discussion a couple of weeks ago on some blog where they say that they have presented, I think 1.7 million crimes through the Brady Bill, which of course is a complete farce. They haven’t prevented any crime. What they did is they prevented the sale of 1.7 million guns from people with a record. They went into a retail gun store, they tried to purchase a gun. They were denied because they have some sort of some sort of background that prohibits them from owning a gun and they got turned away.

The Brady Bill

So the Brady bunch, for lack of a better term, say that somehow this prevented 1.7 million crimes. That is obviously, that’s silly because if the bad guy wasn’t able to purchase a gun at the retail level, he’d go buy it on the street or steal it or switch weapons.

Rick Green: That’s right.

Brad Ackman: What’s wrong with a hammer or a chainsaw or five gallons of gas and a match? Don’t tell me for a second that he couldn’t purchase a retail gun, so he’s given up on his criminal agenda? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Rick Green: It’s crazy and that’s why I just can’t, I can’t believe we haven’t figured this out and that so many people still fall for this stuff. Now, the good news is the ones like Robert Francis O’Rourke, I should say, that publicly say, we’re going to take your guns, we’re going to take any gun that’s designed to kill and all that. I mean, they end up dropping in the polls and have lost the race. And so that’s a good sign that even in the Democrat primary, that didn’t pay off for him.

Brad Ackman: Imagine the task. Okay, Rick, I’m going to assign you the task of rounding up all of the guns in America.

Rick Green: Right, right.

Brad Ackman: I want you to go gather them all up. Now, by all estimates, there’s 350 to 400 million guns, many of which are unregistered because they were in existence long before any registration process took place. So really that number is probably an underestimate, but it’s your job, Rick, go round up 400 million guns and let’s melt them all down or whatever it is and have a safe society. What a farce that is.

Any Logic on the Left?

Rick Green: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s insane and I even can’t believe people buy into the logic of the left. Brad, once again, we’re out of time, but the last thing I want to ask you in our last two minutes together, is for those people that already agree with us on that part, they understand the importance of the second amendment. They understand the biblical right of self-defense. They know you’ve got to right to do this and a duty to do this. But driving home the fact that you got to get the right training. You can’t just grab that gun and throw it in the purse or put it on the hip and walk around and suddenly think you’re John Wayne or whatever, you’ve got to get the training. It is so important to make sure that you get good training and there are people in every community that do good training. I’m obviously a fan of Front Sight and I think you all do the best training on the planet. But just final comment on that, just the difference between being a gun owner and being someone that’s trained to defend the family and have the right mindset.

Brad Ackman: Absolutely. And when you said good training, I want to capitalize on that thought, just briefly. There are a lot of people, a lot of trainers, firearms trainers who focus strictly on shooting, which is gun handling, marksmanship, tactical movement. It’s a shooting school and there’s nothing wrong with that, that’s totally fine, we teach shooting too. But winning a fight and more importantly, avoiding the gunfight takes more than just the physical skill. You need to train your mind. And we talked about the color code of mental awareness. That’s mental awareness, not physical awareness.

Keep Your Mind in the Game

Rick Green: Yeah.

Brad Ackman: You have to have your mind in the game. A lot of training schools don’t do that. I’ve been to a number of them myself, where you go, you shoot, you shoot, you shoot some more, and then you leave. And there was never a discussion about avoiding the gunfight. So yes, get training, but make certain that it’s the appropriate training. And I, I love this little phrase, “If you’re a hammer, then the entire world starts to look like a nail,” meaning if you’ve only got the one skillset, right? Then that’s what you’re going to use, right? It’s like the handyman who shows up at the job with nothing but a screwdriver. Well, I mean, what tool do you think he’s going to use it? He’s going to use a screwdriver, whether it’s the appropriate tool or not. So you need that diversity of training. Don’t limit your skills, expand your skills, and that’s obviously what we’re trying to do at Front Sight.

Rick Green: So good and so needed. Brad, Ackman, we’ve got to get you back, brother. Thanks for your time today, man.

Brad Ackman: Thank you, Rick. My pleasure, of course.

Rick Green: Well, friends, let’s each do our part to make sure that you are studying the constitution, that you’re intellectually able to defend these rights, especially the second amendment, which our founding fathers said was the palladium of our other freedoms, it’s the protector of our other freedoms, but also actually training to make sure that you can defend yourself and your family in the moment, should unfortunately the wolf show up at your door or at your congregation. So let’s get churches trained. Let’s get church security teams ready.

Sheepdogs In The Church “€“ With Brad Ackman

Let’s get individuals a definitive and have some good fellowship. I’m telling you, when we go out there to the Front Sight, we have a wonderful time and we take a large group with us. We get our own private ranges, and it’s just a wonderful time of fellowship and good training. We learned on the constitution and we learn physically how to defend ourselves and our families.

So come on out with us, check it out at Click on constitutional defense and it’ll take you to the registration and the dates. We’ve got several dates coming up where you can come out there with us. Appreciate your listening today. Looking forward to being with you and as our Wall Builders listeners, if you’re a contributor to Wall Builders, you get a fantastic discount on that course. It’s a fairly expensive course if you just go direct to Front Sight, but if you come through us and you go with us, then you get a huge discount. In fact, you go almost for free if you are a contributor to Wall Builders Live. So do that as well today, go to, click on the contribute button. Make that one time or monthly contribution. And then join us for that training. Thanks so much for listening today. You’ve been listening to Wall Builders Live.