H.R. 38 Second Amendment Rights – Bringing Reciprocity Across All 50 States

H.R. 38 Second Amendment Rights – Bringing Reciprocity Across All 50 States:  Congressman Richard Hudson talks about his legislation, H.R. 38, that would bring reciprocity of concealed carry permits to all 50 states. This would enable Americans to be more prepared to defend themselves, especially while traveling, no matter where they’re going.

Air Date: 10/10/2017


Guests: Congressman Richard Hudson, David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast.  However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture this is Wall Builders Live where we discuss the day’s hottest topics on policy faith in the culture but we always do it from a biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian and our founder here at Wall Builders. Also Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and the president of WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas state legislator.

You can find out more about our organization at WallBuilders.com and also WallBuildersLive.com. The difference there, if you go to WallBuildersLive.com that’s our radio website. You can get archives of the last few weeks and actually go listen to some of those Good News Friday programs if you need a little pick me up. But lots of great interviews and different things there on the radio site. You can also get a list of the stations and find out where you can hear us across the country.

And then over on the Wall Builders site, a wealth of resources for your family, for yourself, in Sunday school class, homeschool classes, private schools, whatever you need to learn more about the founding of America and the biblical foundation of our country. It’s so important for us as individual citizens and certainly to raise our children in that way, so check out those great resources right there at WallBuilders.com. 

Congressman Richard Hudson

David, Tim, later in the program we’ve got Congressman Richard Hudson going to be joining us to talk about a piece of legislation that he has. But David you’re always putting me on the spot with a test. So instead of doing a test though I just want to put you guys in a scenario and then you tell me if you think that is how things should work the same.

David:

I think we’re getting set up for something here but go for it.

Tim:

I like scenario games, though. Let’s do it. Let’s do this.

Rick:

I’m just wondering, I mean you guys travel a lot. I mean all through the —

David:

Wait a minute. Don’t say “you guys” because “you guys” is counting you travel a lot too.

50 United States

Rick:

We do. We’re all over the country in different states all the time. So we’re crossing state lines and I’m just curious, I know most of the time we fly, but you know David you raised your kids in the van right. Van school when y’all went all 50 states multiple times. So you were driving across state lines.

I used to do it in the bus to take my kids all over the country driving across state lines. So have you ever had to stop at the state border there and leave your vehicle and have to walk through that state or rent a car or get some kind of government person to drive you around the state because your driver’s license was not recognized by that particular state. That ever happened to you guys?

David:

On a regular basis when I go into foreign countries like California or Massachusetts and New Jersey. Whenever I cross into a foreign border I have to do that.

Tim:

Yeah. Yeah. No. no.

Rick:

Why not, though?

Tim:

Well because we are a 50 United States and so no matter what state you are in, we recognize the other states’ driver’s license and so DMV whatever state you’re in, if you get a driver’s license, it’s recognized in all 50 states.

Necessary and Proper Clause

David:

You also have Constitution clauses like the Necessary and Proper Clause and the Full Faith and Credit Clause which requires that contracts in one state be honored in another.

Tim:

Yes.

Full Faith and Credit Clause

David:

So Constitutionally you can’t do that. That’s why you know one of the things they got rid of out of the American Revolution was every state had its own money. Not anymore. You know we’ve got one when you cross from Texas to East Texas or I guess they call it Louisiana. We don’t have to stop at the border and change money as we go in. No, I mean clearly not now.

I will say that there’s a couple of states that when I’m on radio they notified me ahead of time they say now you realize that in the state of I think it is New Jersey and California you can’t say anything negative on the radio about homosexuality. Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. I’ve got a right to free speech regardless of what your state law says and you may be wanting to suppress that topic but if history talks about it, if statistics talk about it, if the Bible talks about it, and the Constitution allows me to talk about it, I’m going to. So there are definitely some states that try to infringe on Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

But you’re right Rick as we drive through the states you go from state to state. No, you don’t give up those rights just because you cross an interior artificial border

Rick:

And you don’t have to go take their driver’s license test in each state that you go into before you can drive around. I wonder why. I mean, that’s an important right to be able to freely travel among the different states and have the freedom to go where you choose and to be able to drive on those roads and not have to get a different driver’s license.

Second Amendment Right of Self-Protection

But I kind of think that the right to protect yourself, to protect your family, to actually save lives and protect them from rape or murder or theft or whatever might be, seems like that Second Amendment right of self-protection. That God-given right of self-protection is even more important than whether or not you can drive on their streets.

David:

Are you saying that you think the Second Amendment and the Constitution should be recognized in all 50 states?

Rick:

I know it’s crazy. I know. I mean, I don’t get accused of having you know over-the-top beliefs but I’m actually thinking the Constitution should apply in all 50 states regardless of where you actually live. It just seems logical to me.

David:

I mean every state official takes an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Do you actually think they intend to read it and then follow through?

Justice Thomas and Gorsuch

Rick:

Well you know if we’re good at it, and whether or not the Second Amendment means what we’re talking about, I think Justice Thomas and Gorsuch had it correct a few weeks back when they said, “We don’t think the founders gave us the Second Amendment so we could carry our gun from the kitchen to the bedroom.” This is about outside of your home as well being able to protect yourself and in this case, we’re talking about being able to protect yourself when you’re traveling in other states.

Especially, I mean, you guys have been trained just like our family. You’re trained to carry, you’re trained to defend your family. Man, when you go speak in a state that you’re not allowed to then protect your family, it feels like you are going into a foreign country.

5 Reasons The Government Exists

David:

Well, since the Declaration of Independence says there are five points of the philosophy that governs America. One of those five points is that the primary reason that government exists is to protect the inalienable rights of every citizen. 

So when you have an inalienable right, and the Bill of Rights lists inalienable rights, there are others as well, but the Bill of Rights lists, for example, the Second Amendment. Then what that really means is, Constitutionally, you have the right of reciprocity across every state line because that is a God-given inalienable right of every individual that states cannot regulate, states cannot repress.

That’s why states don’t have free speech codes as you change borders. That’s why they don’t change the laws on juries and suddenly you can’t have a jury trial if you’re in Arkansas but you can if you’re in Missouri. No, no, no. You have the Constitutional right to exercise every Constitutional right in every state, except there are states that have been opting out of the Constitution on the Second Amendment. Which is why in the state of Texas — what do we have 32 states that we have reciprocity with in Texas?

Tim:

Yeah, it’s every state that has a concealed weapon course, permit, license. I mean whatever it is if you’re allowed to carry in your state, you’re allowed to carry in Texas.

“Exceptional”

David:

So that’s 32 states, but it should be 50 states because, Constitutionally, states do not get to regulate any of the inalienable rights that appear in the Bill of Rights or other inalienable rights that God gives. And by the way, for those that are interested in those five points, we talk about them occasionally, there’s a DVD called “Exceptional” that goes through those 126 words in the Declaration of Independence and the five reasons that American government exists, the five premises of American government. It’s a great DVD to get.

Rick:

That’s the one you shot in the library and have a lot of the cool artifacts.

David:

That’s right.

Rick:

And the documents and what-not as well.

David:

That’s right. That’s exactly right. So everybody ought to know those five points. The purpose of American government they’re from the Declaration. And once you get those down then you can look at things like state reciprocity laws or even a federal reciprocity law and have a much better understanding of what government’s supposed to do with that.

Rick:

Well, quick break. When we come back, we’ll talk about how it would be great if the Constitution was just being followed by all the states. but we’ll talk about a potential solution to this idea being done at the federal legislative level.

So stay with us we’ll be back in a moment. And later in the program, we’ve got Congressman Richard Hudson going to be with us, the author of this legislation. We’ll be back in a moment on Wall Builders Live.

Moment From American History

This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history.

The Reverend James Caldwell was a famous minister during the American War for Independence. His sermons taught liberty and God’s opposition to tyranny.

The British hated him and tried to kill him. So for his own protection, he would actually take loaded pistols with him into the pulpit and lay them beside his Bible as he preached. In the 1780 Battle of Springfield, the Americans ran out of wadding for their guns which was like having no ammunition.

Pastor Caldwell ran inside a nearby church and returned with an armload of Watt’s Hymnals, the pages of which would provide the much-needed wadding. He took this great Bible-based hymnal, raised in the air, and shouted to the troops, “Now put to watts into them, boys!”  This pastor’s ingenuity saved the day for the Americans.

For more information or Pastor James Caldwell and other Colonial Patriots go to WallBuilders.com

Rick:

Welcome back — Thanks for staying with us on Wall Builders Live. We’re here with David and Tim Barton. We’re talking about this issue of your Constitutional rights literally being taken away from you when you travel to other states and this idea of defending your family and the Second Amendment right to defend yourself and your family. Frankly, others in that we’ve had plenty of cases we’ve even shared on the program in different interviews where people lost their life because they did not have their weapon with them even though they were trained to do so and other people lost their lives.  And if there had been someone there, that probably could have stopped that perpetrator in that instance. 

So David, Tim, I mean this is definitely an important right. And if it’s not being followed, if the Constitution is not being upheld by the states, then there is a role for the Congress to say, “Hey we’ve got to fix this”.

Tim:

Well, and Rick, I would say even stronger than just a role I would say necessity.

Rick:

Yeah.

Three Branches of Government

Tim:

Because if we’re in a place that we’re not following the Constitution, there is a reason we have three branches of government because they hold each other accountable in upholding the Constitution. And if we’re not upholding the Constitution then somebody has an obligation, responsibility, duty, to step in and go “No, no, no. Wait a second. Here’s the way the Constitution works. Here’s what we need to do.”

And so whether we need to do legislation — what needs to happen is potentially debatable how to solve this problem. But there is a problem that does need to be solved and we elect these officials and they have a responsibility to help resolve this problem.

David:

Yeah, you’re right. This is a problem.  It’s got to be solved. And one of the guys in Congress who understands this and who is now doing something about it very actively is Congressman Richard Hudson out of North Carolina. Great guy, great friend, great conservative guy. 

National Reciprocity Law

He has now introduced a national reciprocity law that would do exactly what the Constitution permits and that is to obey the Constitution in all 50 states without any kind of hindrance including the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms in all 50 states. So if you can do it in Texas, you can do it in Massachusetts you can do it — Now you’re still subject to some of the laws in those states, but they can’t keep you from keeping and bearing arms. There are still regulations that the states can apply and you know that’s a different thing.

Rick:

It’s some of those nuances like particular locations or a building —

David:

That’s right.

Rick:

Where if they post a particular sign, different states do that different ways, you still got to obey that particular state’s rules on that, but at least you can carry in most places.

David:

That’s right. And they can’t tell you can’t carry which is the situation now in several states that you can’t come in the state and exercise your Second Amendment right. Well, they can place some restrictions — you can’t carry in movie theaters or churches or whatever some states do, and it’s debatable whether they can do those. But just getting national reciprocity is a huge, huge, step and Richard has taken this on and the chances of success in the House on this are really, really, high at this point. I was talking to him about it last week and it’s really good news from what may happen on the House side of this.

Rick:

Congressman Richard Hudson our special guest today stay with us. We’ll be right back on WallBuilders Live.

We Want To Hear Your Vet Story

Rick:

Hey friends! If you have been listening to WallBuilders Live for very long at all, you know how much we respect our veterans and how appreciative we are of the sacrifice they make to make our freedoms possible. One of the ways that we love to honor those veterans is to tell their stories here on WallBuilders Live.  Once in awhile, we get an opportunity to interview veterans that have served on those front lines that have made incredible sacrifices have amazing stories that we want to share with the American people.

One of the very special things we get to do is interview World War II veterans. You’ve heard those interviews here on WallBuilders Live, from folks that were in the Band of Brothers, to folks like Edgar Harrell that survived the Indianapolis to so many other great stories you heard on WallBuilders Live.

You have friends and family that also served.  If you have World War II veterans in your family that you would like to have their story shared here on WallBuilders Live, please e-mail us at [email protected]  Give us a brief summary of the story and we’ll set up an interview. Thanks so much for sharing here on WallBuilders Live!

Rick:

Welcome back, thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Congressman Richard Hudson our guest for today from North Carolina. Congressman thanks for coming on sir.

Congressman Richard Hudson:

Rick, great to be with you.

Rick:

Hey, really, really, appreciate the work you do on the Second Amendment and so many other issues, but specifically super excited that you’re now up to 209 co-authors on this reciprocity bill where I can actually take my concealed weapons license and when I travel I don’t have to leave my weapon behind to be able to defend my family.

Congressman Richard Hudson:

Absolutely, Rick. You don’t become a criminal because you cross an invisible line.

Rick:

Yeah. Yeah. And I know you’ve been working on this for some time but it seems to have gained a lot of momentum and people are beginning to realize you need the good guys to have that gun to defend against the bad guys. We can’t have a cop on every corner or at every household. You wouldn’t want that.

Congressman Richard Hudson:

Absolutely not. And you know the other side that argues against reciprocity, really, they use a lot of emotion. But if you look at the facts, all we’re talking about is law-abiding citizens who are trying to do the right thing who are becoming criminals because of just a hodgepodge of laws. And if you look at the Constitution very plain language of the Constitution Article 4, Section 1, “Full faith and credit should be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state.” And then it only has one more sentence in that section that says, “the Congress may by general law prescribe the manner in which these will be recognized.”

And so that’s why, for instance, when I drive from my home in North Carolina to D.C. I don’t want to stop at the Virginia line and get a new driver’s license for Virginia. You know and then as I cross the state lines my driver’s license is recognized as a legal document. I do have to follow the laws of those states and that’s the same way this concealed carry reciprocity works. You’ve got to follow the laws of the states you’re in, but that state recognizes that you have a legal right to carry that’s recognized in another state.

Rick:

Man, I am so praying for victory on this one. You know we, our family, travel all over the country. I’m not kidding you. Congressman, I get a speaking engagement request – I look at my reciprocity map —

Congressman Richard Hudson:

It’s important to do that.

Crossing State Lines With Guns

Rick:

Because it weighs into the decision. I mean sometimes we definitely do have to go to states where you know we have no reciprocity and here I’ve got my family there and you’re doing business you got cash you’re in a situation where you know you’re susceptible and you don’t have a way to defend yourself and your family. It’s a shame that you have to literally give up your Constitutional right, one of the most important ones, just to travel in another part of the country which is the opposite of I think what the founders intended here.

Congressman Richard Hudson:

Absolutely, and you know I’ve personally experienced this as well. You know, June 14th when Congressman Scalise was shot I think it brought it close to home for a lot of us, not just members of Congress, but for everybody. But you know, just a couple of weekends ago I took my family camping up in West Virginia. We went from D.C., so there I was for the weekend vulnerable without a weapon. Really it preys on you and obviously, you trust the Lord to protect you, but you sure would like to be able to arm yourself. That’s what you want to do.

Rick:

No doubt. No doubt. Well, tell us a little bit about where the legislation is – you got that many co-authors – I mean you’re close to having you know 50 percent of the house. How does it look for getting it through?

Looking Good In The House

Congressman Richard Hudson:

Well, I feel very good about it. You know we weren’t able to get it on the calendar earlier in the year just because there was so much going on with health care and other things. And frankly, I waited until August recess to really make this push.

We’ve got leadership is on board for us to have this in the judiciary committee in October and on the House floor soon after. We’ve got every member, every Republican, on Judiciary Committee including Chairman Goodlatte as a co-sponsor except for one, so we feel like we got support. I’ve talked to more than the needed 218 Republicans who said they’d vote for it. I’ve got three Democrat co-sponsors, I think will pick up a few more Democrat votes, so I think we’re there. I think we got the votes to do it and I think we’ll get our chance.

Call Your Members of Congress

Rick:

What can folks that are listening cross the country do? If they call their congressman’s office what’s the quickest easiest way for them to mention your bill – is it just to tell them concealed carry reciprocity please get onboard, please support?

Congressman Richard Hudson:

Absolutely, I’d say, first of all, you mentioned it, but prayer is the most important thing. I do believe that we are in spiritual warfare and I would just ask for people’s prayers for our country, for our leaders. But also pick up the phone and call your member of Congress, call your senators, and tell them that if they’re not a co-sponsor you’d like them to co-sponsor. If they are, just encourage them, let them know how important this is to you. Because I do think having a good push, making sure that your representatives understand how important this is to you, will be helpful.

Rick:

Yeah, no doubt about it.

H.R. 38.

Congressman Richard Hudson:

And it’s H.R. 38. I asked the speaker to give me that number specifically —

Rick:

I love it.

Congressman Richard Hudson:

So it’s easy to remember – H.R. 38 in the House.

Rick:

All right H.R. 38 folks, you can make those calls to your congressman. And by the way Congressman, I also want to thank you — some people may not understand this I think anybody that, certainly that hunts, but also anybody that trains regularly with firearms will understand the importance of what you did in making sure that there was a protection against regulation on our, what we call them ears when we’re on the line, but our sound, our protection, our ear protection. There’s a lot of new technology that is making that better and better and it looks like the government was one to reach in and do a lot of regulations and you’ve managed to get something to protect us from that.

Protection From Regulation

Congressman Richard Hudson:

Absolutely. You know it’s hunters, birdwatchers, shooters, you know a lot of us use these devices that allow you to hear better but then shut off when you reach a certain decibel. And those are very common now. A lot of us use them and I want to make sure the federal government wasn’t going to be regulating them, so I was glad to do that.

Rick:

Good stuff. Good stuff. Congressman, keep up the great work and we will spread the word on H.R. 38 and look forward to hopefully having you back to talk about the victory when it’s over.

Congressman Richard Hudson:

Anytime, Rick, I really appreciate what you and David do and God bless you.

Rick:

Thanks, brother. God bless. That’s Congressman Richard Hudson. Stay with us folks, we’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Chasing American Legends

Rick:

If you ever wonder if it’s over for America.  Can we restore those constitutional principles that made our nation great? Then we want to encourage you.  We want to show you some evidence of how it can be done. We want to show you the evidence behind what made America great in the first place. And we want to have some fun while we’re doing it.

It’s called Chasing American Legends. It’s our special television program that follows the Green family around the nation investigating myths and legends about America.  And it’s amazing what we have found and what we’ve discovered. Dove Channel is now airing Chasing American Legends and we want you to check it out.

We’ve got a link today at WallBuildersLive.com so you can find out more about Chasing American Legends, airing now on the Dove Channel. We’re going to take you and march with the minutemen for the re-enactment of April 19th, 1775. That shot heard around the world. Take you to investigate the battles that George Washington was in.

All kinds of great episodes.  Check it out right now at DoveChannel.com.  Give our family a chance to inspire yours. We know we can give you some hope of the future of our nation. Check it out. Chasing American Legends at DoveChannel.com.

Rick:

Welcome back, thanks for staying with us here on Wall Builders Live. Back now with David and Tim Barton. Thanks to Congressman Hudson for joining us and just for doing great work on a very, very important issue.

So, guys, this sounds really promising. David, like you said before this things got a lot of momentum a lot of co-authors. I mean there’s a real good — when this first happened you know eight, nine, months ago I was like “Oh, that would be wonderful, but there’s no chance.” Now, hey, there really is a chance.

Deputy Whips

David:

Well, there’s a real chance and what I love about what Richard’s doing at this — you know we deal with so many members of Congress and a lot of them are very conservative voters but they’re not warriors that will go out and fight to make the issue come to the floor. Richard’s fighting to make this thing come to the floor. He is one of the deputy whips in the Congress, they have 12 deputy whips. When Steve Scalise was out for all those weeks because of the shooting, the 12 deputy whips stepped up and they kind of ran everything on the floor of Congress.

So Richard’s one of these guys that on this issue he’s not just introducing the bill and if it comes up he’s going to vote for it, he’s been working leadership. He has pinned the speaker right on this several times, “What day are you going to bring this up?” 

And so he’s got this commitment to have dates. And later in October coming up where they’re going to have the Judiciary Committee hearings. And as he pointed out, he’s got all those co-sponsors in Judiciary Committee and he’s actually penned them on which of the two dates, there are two options were going to come to the floor.

200 Co-Sponsors

And in addition to that, he doesn’t just — how’s a way to say this — I mean he’s not only just getting guys to vote for this, he’s been lobbying it. He’s got well over 200 co-sponsors. When you get guys willing to sign on as a co-sponsor that means “I’m not just going to vote for this, I’m going to fight for this”. That’s massive. If you get 100 co-sponsors on a measure in Congress you’ve got a freight train coming down the track.

He’s not only got 200 on this, he’s got some Democrat co-sponsors on this and I did not think that was possible. So Richard has really been working this hard. He has put time and effort and blood and tears and sweat into this thing. I mean the chances of this going through the House are really, really high. Now we’ll see what Mitch McConnell does with it, but even the fact that we’re getting a vote in the House and that we’re likely to pass this bill. This is great stuff.

Rick:

Yeah, it’s very good news. And it also kind of tells you a little bit about the attitude of the country if that many congressmen are for it, I mean, Congress never gets too far out in front of the folks. As you’ve said before, David, they’re going to reflect, most of the time, on an issue like this that some would try to make so divisive. The fact that many would sign on tells you that people back home are saying, “We want this.”

David:

And I love too, I mean, you asked Richard what we should do about this – should we call the member – and what’s he say? He said, “No, you need to pray about this.” 

Now that’s kind of cool too. I mean you’ve got your pet bill up, you’ve got the one that you’ve been putting so much of your time, effort, attention, weeks and months into, and you have somebody say, “Alright, what can we do to activate these guys, call them all?” And he says “Let’s pray.”

I love that response which again kind of tells you what his motivation is. And that reminds me of that quote from John Hancock that we use from time to time where John Hancock said, “I urge you by all that is dear, by all that is honorable, by all that is sacred, not only that you pray but also that you act!” And so he joined those two together and that’s clearly what Richard has done here is, hey, let’s get prayer going on this thing because when God’s favor is there it’s really hard for people to go against God’s favor. But let’s also get ahold of members and get them to, if they haven’t co-sponsored, get them to co-sponsor, but definitely vote for this thing when it comes to the floor.

A Groundswell Across The Country

Rick:

Yeah, lots of phone calls on this one and e-mails and what not are very important because those congressmen need to know there’s a groundswell back home, there’s a groundswell across the country, that wants this and of course a lot of the incidences that have happened, including the one there in D.C. with the Congressman, I think make people realize, “Wow, this is important.”  There were people in that situation that back home had their concealed carry license, but they weren’t allowed to have a weapon there on that softball field to stop that perpetrator immediately.

Military Veterans Are Even Restricted

Tim:

And Rick, not just people that had weapons back home. I mean, you have military veterans that are there, who some of them, what they did their former life before becoming a congressman was living with a gun and so very proficient marksman. And even though they’ve had all the training you could possibly imagine, as proficient as they are, they still are not allowed to carry a gun to defend themselves.

And it was only by the grace of God that nothing more significant and serious happened as far as the loss of life and the casualty. And it’s obviously great seeing Steve Scalise making this comeback, but this is where it should be one of those no-brainer moments that look, you should be able to defend yourself no matter where you are. If you are a United States citizen in the United States, you should not have restrictions on you being able to defend your wife, your spouse, your kids, just because you’re visiting some other location in the United States.

H.R. 38 Will Make  A Difference

David:

I’ve talked to a bunch of congressmen after the shooting and a bunch of the congressmen who were there at the shooting got shot at and they all lamented that they could not have their own guns with them at that point and these guys, as Tim said, are military veterans. Had they had their guns it would have been a whole different scenario because that guy would have been taking fire from 12, 14, 15, different directions by skilled guys who are trained. And that’s what the national reciprocity law would do, is allow people to be able to find themselves when they come under attack no matter where they are.

Rick:

Thanks to Congressman Richard Hudson for carrying that bill and for joining us on the program today. Thank you for listening to Wall Builders Live.

2017-10-17T14:49:42+00:00 October 10th, 2017|Government & Policy|0 Comments

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