Hollywood Is Finally Becoming Biblically And Constitutionally Literate: Janine Turner is our special guest today! Janine is a well known Hollywood actress, you’ve seen her in movies and television programs. She’s also very constitutionally literate and passionate about getting the Constitution taught in schools, getting more people to study the Constitution, and she has a new podcast coming out now that’s getting people to get back into reading the Bible! She’s helping to spread great lessons and truths from the past. Tune in now to learn more!

Air Date: 03/28/2018

Guest: Janine Turner

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture.  This is WallBuilders Live! Where we talk about the day”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. Always from a biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective.

We’re here with David Barton, America’s premier historian and our founder at WallBuilders. Also, Tim Barton, he”€™s national speaker, pastor, and president of WallBuilders. My name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator.

You can find out more at our two websites – WallBuildersLive.com, that”€™s the radio site. And then WallBuilders.com, our main website. Both websites have a lot of great information for you. Go check those out today.

David and Tim, later in the program Janine Turner will be with us. Famous actress, people will be familiar with her or have seen her in stuff probably. But unusually, she’s going to be sharing with us some great wisdom from someone out of Hollywood. She’s got a biblical, worldview and actually helping to spread and get people to study the Word of God.

Coming Out on the Side of Commonsense

Tim:

Rick, that is one of the things that is really fun about part of what we get to do on the radio is some of the conversations and interviews we get to have. We get to talk to some fun people about some fun things. And it seems like we are seeing more and more people in Hollywood that are coming out on the side of commonsense, or the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, and in this case, even Christianity. Which is really cool!

In fact, it is one of the movies that was out that surprisingly to many did very well – I Can Only Imagine. Our family has gone and seen it a couple of times and such a great Christian message, but it something you certainly don’t expect from Hollywood. Although, as is being evidenced with this movie there’s a demand for it, right. People are wanting to go see it. It has done very well at the box office especially considering the budget. And it’s something that traditionally in Hollywood its not been acceptable to have been an outspoken Christian, or a conservative, or to support the Constitution, or Bill of Rights in a lot of positions.

And it almost seems like there is a tide that is turning, on some levels, that you are hearing more and more people out of Hollywood that are now maybe having the courage and the boldness to stand up and say, “€œActually, I believe that. I just haven’t been as open about it.”€ And so maybe not for Janine, maybe she’s been a little more open about it than some others have. But we’re seeing more and more of this come out of Hollywood. Which is actually very encouraging to know that there are some Christian minded people in some of these arenas. Because for a while it seemed like there haven’t been that many out there.

Rick:

Well, in fact, and you mentioned the Constitution, people from Hollywood actually being for the Constitution, of course we talked about Jon Voight and a few others that have been vocal about that. But Janine and her daughter Juliet they’ve written books on the Constitution, they’ve got these clubs and contests it’s called Constituting America where they’re really pushing for people to go back and study founding principles. So, it’s very, very, encouraging to see that coming out of Hollywood.

Quick break, guys. When we come back Janine Turner will be our special guest today. She’s a Hollywood actress, well-known to a lot of folks, you’ve seen her in movies and television programs. But she’s also very much into getting the Constitution taught, and in schools, and getting more people to study the Constitution. And she’s also got some great common sense and a new podcast coming out now that’s getting people to get back into the Bible as well. Stay with us, folks. Janine Turner our special guest on WallBuilders Live.

Front Sight Handgun Training and Constitution Crash Course

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We’ll do that during the day and then at night we’re going to provide you with a Constitution Crash Course. Visit RickGreen.com today to learn more about this unique opportunity. It’s happening April 13th and 14th and you can attend for free. No kidding. No exaggeration. We’re giving away this one thousand dollar course for free to the first 100 listeners on WallBuilders Live that register for the course at RickGreen.com.

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It’s going to be a great weekend a fun, fellowship, learning, and sending a lot of lead downrange. And that one thousand dollar course registration, again, completely waived for the first 100 WallBuilders Live listeners to register. You”€™ve got to pay for your own travel and ammo, but we’re giving you the course for free as a gift to our listeners. I look forward to seeing you on the range April 13th. For all the details visit RickGreen.com today.

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. We”€™ve got Janine Turner back with us. You know her from all kinds of television and movies, but you might not know she’s not only a great constitutionalist and helping to get people to study the Constitution, but she’s also got a new podcast out called God on the Go. Janine, ,great to have you back.

Janine Turner:

Hey, thanks for having me. Thank you. You know what? I can’t believe I just said that because every time people say that on the radio or TV, “€œThanks for having me”€ that”€™s just bad English, isn’t it? Every time I hear that I”€™m like, “€œThat”€™s just bad English. Let me try that again – It’s wonderful to have the opportunity to speak with you again.

Coming Out of Hollywood Unscathed

Rick:

Well, we’re glad you are speaking with us again. There we go, we”€™ll try good grammar all the way around here. First, before we jump into the new projects you’ve got going I know people have to be shocked. Often when we get good pro America, pro Constitution, pro God, pro Bible, pro good values, from someone that had so much time in Hollywood. How did you go unscathed in the Hollywood circles for so long and come out keeping your values?

Janine Turner:

Well, I’m not sure I was totally unscathed. We’re all human, right?

Rick:

Right. Right. Maybe it was playing June Cleaver.

Janine Turner:

That”€™s it!

Rick:

That might have had something to do with it.

Janine Turner:

I was raised by a Christian family. My mother, and my father, and my great grandmother, was a pillar of the Baptist church. Also I just think it was sort of I’ve always felt God’s love within my heart and He’s been my guiding force and pulled me out of all kinds of dark, deep, black holes. But I think it was in the house, in my home. I was raised–

Rick:

So, you went in with a good foundation.

It”€™s Happening All Over the Country

Janine Turner:

Yes. And I think that Hollywood gets a big spotlight on it, but I think this is happening all over the country. Kids are really struggling now because– Well, C.S. Lewis said you don”€™t really need to worry about faith being in the school you just need to make sure it’s in the homes. But I haven’t–

Rick:

Yeah.

Janine Turner:

And I ** philosophy lately * Socrates * and we’ve just pulled away in this area of science which gave doubt and things have to be proved. We’ve really pulled away from the foundation of faith. And I think it kind of affects our entire country. But I was given one, so I think that helped me through all the years.

Rick:

Well, and the study of philosophy you”€™ve been doing lately is obviously affecting some of the work that you’re putting out as well. Your book on artificial intelligence versus primal sense and really getting into what makes us who we are. I’ve got friends that often say too often we don’t serve God with our minds. David Barton even says that quite often we forget that part of respecting the fact that we should be digging deep into these things and teaching our kids that strong foundation so they’re not so easily swayed.

Janine Turner:

Well, especially with what combats the children today and the youth with all of the negativity, and the video games, and the electronics. That’s I talk about my book -artificial intelligence. Yeah, and everyone says primal sense. The reason I chose Intelligentsia is it”€™s a group people who are really manipulating our thoughts out there in Google, social–, Facebook, and all of that. But we’ve got to counter it–

Rick:

Yeah.

We Have to Work to Combat This

Janine Turner:

–with going back to primal sense, going outdoors, with the community and family, but also just God, and nature. We really have to work to combat that. That’s what I talk about in the book, the ten steps to reclaiming you and reclaiming our children, really.

Rick:

I like what you say about you can’t have true reasoning in just six seconds that creates ideologues, not intellectuals. This is not– this takes hard work. We’ve got to be willing to put in the time and effort if we want good results like this.

Janine Turner:

It does take work and there is a great danger, I believe, that’s happening in our society where we want the information quick, and move on, and we’re very impatient, and we’re being sort of manipulated– our minds manipulated. And we can”€™t forget that we need to actually sit down and read a book and get real information. Or else we’re sort of just– we’re soundbites.

Rick:

Yeah.

Janine Turner:

We’re victims of the soundbites which is very, very, dangerous on all levels.

Rick:

How are you approaching that with the new podcast, with God On the Go? How do you hope to equip people with that, giving them that information, because it’s somewhat of a– you still have only, just like with our radio program, we’ve got 26 minutes–

Janine Turner:

I know!

Rick:

–so how much do we cram in and do. So, what’s your approach on that?

Janine Turner:

Well, I think we use the technology that we have, right.

Rick:

Right. Right.

Janine Turner:

I mean, I”€™m not anti-technology – I love Amazon, and I love Facetiming my daughter at college, and things of that nature.

God on the Go

Janine Turner:

But God on the Go, it was just a series of little events happened in my life. I thought, I read the Bible every morning and I”€™m just going to share this. So, it”€™s 60 seconds – literally one minute – and what I do is I read the Bible and I see– I give it all to God. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, just speak through me. And I find a Bible verse that I feel I”€™m called and I put a little star by it, and I hit play, and I don’t even prepare. I just, it”€™s just whatever comes out of my mouth. And I relate my own experiences to the Bible verse, but I have to do it in 60 seconds. But it works! Somehow 60 seconds seems long today.

Rick:

But you’re hitting the topics, though, that are close to home ,so it’s not like this– A lot of times, sometimes, you get these shallow just feel good in a few seconds kind of goes. You’re hitting the stuff people are facing everyday -the failure, and difficulty sometimes, feeling frazzled, you”€™ve got some great topics in here.

Janine Turner:

Thank you.

Rick:

So, you’re not doing this in a shallow way. You’re hitting the stuff people are worried about.

Janine Turner:

Right. Well, it”€™s what affects me every day and I figured if it”€™s affecting me it”€™s probably affecting everybody else. But also conversational, it”€™s not polished, which I think is a lot of fun. And I just sort of laugh and go with the flow and try to get all out in 60 seconds. I”€™ll put a Bible verse in there and I feel it’s a great way to actually just share the Bible–

Rick:

Yeah.

Janine Turner:

–with people that might not usually.

Rick:

Right and hopefully do more of that. We’ve been talking a lot on the program about how the founders studied the Bible, read through it every year. Many of them read through it every year. It really did guide their decision making and the things that they did. And as a culture you can tell how far we’ve moved away from that. It’s just not the influence that it used to be on our nation and we’re seeing the negative results of that.

The Best Book

Rick:

So, I think they were right when they said it’s the best book, it’s got all the best drama, and literature, and guidance for the day. So, for those people that maybe haven’t made a habit of doing that on a daily basis, by doing God on the Go you’re giving them at least a piece of it and hopefully sparking the interest to where they will dig in a little more.

Janine Turner:

Yes. Because I talk often about how I read the Bible every day and how I– People meditate different sort of ways – prayer is when we talk to God, meditate is when we listen to God. Listening to God is so important. So, I talk about the fact that when I read the Bible, that’s when I feel that the Lord is speaking to me. When I actually read the Bible, I get focused then, it”€™s so hard to focus. And it is just essential – it really, really, is essential. I feel that as a society, and also with our youth, there aren’t any coping skills. Very often kids don’t think about anything beyond their own– our adults, right?

Rick:

Yeah.

Janine Turner:

We don”€™t think beyond our own pleasures and our own needs. And I don”€™t think most of us do, right, but there’s a higher purpose, there”€™s a higher meaning. It used to be in the air, as Ronald Reagan said, right.

Rick:

Right.

When We Feel Powerless

Janine Turner:

I think a lot of this is local community. Now, we’re so universe, and Federal Government, and nationwide, we have forgotten what it’s like to just think for ourselves and to seek a higher purpose. Also one of the things I think happens is when we’re stuck focusing on global issues, we feel powerless. This what our founders understood, right. That’s why they gave us a local government, state government, but also a representative in our area in the House of Representatives that goes to the nation for us.

Because when we see all these national problems that we”€™re bombarded with every day, we can’t control that.

Rick:

Right.

Janine Turner:

And I think it makes us very upset, and angry, and frustrated, and we feel powerless, we can”€™t focus. It used to be people would go out and farm land and they were very busy in their own *, their own community, but there was a sense of power with that. And now we’re inundated with things that we really feel like we can’t control, and most of it we can’t control, and I think that that creates a great sense of anxiety, angst, and unhappiness.

Rick:

That is such a good point and one of the best ways to battle that is to find something that you can do locally, and get engaged, and see the results of making a difference in maybe one person’s life that you’re having an impact on. I think you’re so right. I think even the next generation has some of their frustration because they’re cause oriented and they want to be a part of making a difference and having an impact. But when it is always so   world– you see everything on this huge scale, they feel like, “€œWow, I’m one out of six billion. How am I going to make a difference?”€ It really is at the local level. It’s looking for something to do right there in your own backyard in your own neighborhood.

Couple It With Faith

Janine Turner:

Well, and to couple that with faith because I was listening to some quotes, my pastor this weekend was quoting a lot of Martin Luther King. And what Martin Luther King had to say was you may come out negatively, but we will love you. You may do this to us, but we will love you.

Rick:

Yeah.

Janine Turner:

Now there’s this sort of– and I talk about this a lot when I give speeches to Constituting America and go into the classroom either over Skype or in person. I”€™m teaching kids how to have the civil civic dialogue now.

Rick:

Yeah.

Janine Turner:

And not to just cover their ears. It’s like, “€œIt”€™s okay to listen.”€ If we”€™re going to be a country of diversity, then we need to realize that we all have diversity of thought.

Rick:

That’s right.

Janine Turner:

Why is it we want to all be diverse and accepted, but we don’t accept diverse opinions. That’s what our main problems I think *.

Rick:

Well, before I let you go, you’ve got another new book out that you call Wisdom Each Day Inherited From My Great Grandfather. So, why did you pick your great grandfather’s wisdom to share.

Janine Turner:

Good question. It’s a daily devotional. I kind of got**. It”€™s a daily devotional. And my great grandfather was this wonderful eccentric man. He obviously had a lot of faith and he developed wings for *, and he was just brilliant and eccentric and I loved him, I actually knew him.

The Wisdom This Country Needs

Janine Turner:

I found this handmade sort of Rolodex typed on little pieces of paper that had quotes– all sort of the 1960s and before. It ends around the 1960s. And it was all this sort of wonderful pull yourself up by your bootstraps and the wisdom is just what I think this country needs. As well as the fact that it”€™s based with a lot of faith that is mixed in – Plato and Calvin Coolidge, and Will Rogers, it”€™s wonderful.

So, I put it together in a book and it”€™s a lot of obscure people, so my daughter and I, she helped me do all this, millennial, you know. We found bios on all these wonderful people that gives you the wonderful quotes. It”€™s very eclectic and unique. I don’t think there’s anything else out there like it actually.

Rick:

I love the front– you calling it front porch philosophy too because I can think of times with my grandfather, but also my great grandfather, literally sitting on the front porch in the rocking chairs and the literal wisdom that would often come out in that relaxed environment of being able to just sit back, and sip some tea, and talk. That doesn’t happen very often because we’re so busy and running so fast.

I’ve learned with my kids even just sitting around the campfire are those times where you really almost remove yourself from everything, shut off the phones, and have a chance to have a little front porch philosophy. I love that phrase, that was as good.

Front Porch Philosophy

Janine Turner:

Tank you. Well, I do some YouTube front porch philosophy, but all these books I’m doing are a series of front porch philosophy, as well as God on the Go. But yes! We all need to go– we don’t have front porches anymore, right?

Rick:

That”€™s right.

Janine Turner:

Sit in your yard, or sit in the backyard, and a rocking chair would be great. Sit around and talk. I used to do it with my grandparents – we would get lounge chairs – the ones you sit in, not the ones you lounge in, like little folding chairs and we would–

Rick:

Oh yeah.

Janine Turner:

–sit under tree. That”€™s what you did! Yeah!

Rick:

Those ones with the different colored little patterns–

Janine Turner:

Yes, yes.

Rick:

–that weaved in and out of each other and look like–really, really, bad patterns.

Janine Turner:

Yes, right, everyone should go get one!

Rick:

Right, right. Totally with you. We need more of it. Janine, God bless you.

Janine Turner:

Its been so wonderful to speak with you.

Rick:

Well, keep up the great work and we look forward to having you back soon. We”€™ll have links to the podcast and the books as well on our website today at WallBuildersLive.com to make it easy for folks. But let’s get you back again soon. Have a good one.

Janine Turner:

Thank you. You too, God bless. Thank you.

Rick:

That was Janine Turner. Thanks, Jeanine, for joining.

We’re now with back with David and Tim Barton. And, guys, sounds like some good common sense out of all places – Hollywood. So, it’s surprising, but it sounds like her values certainly did not come from Hollywood. She got them from her grandfather, and family, and others, that instilled the Bible in her before she went to Hollywood.

The Victims of Soundbites

David:

Yes, she has some great things and I think she made some really key points that I hope we can kind of drive in on. I love what she said that we”€™re often the victims of soundbites. And that soundbite kind of thing, that really indicates that we’re not very good analytical thinking or reasoning. And I think one of the reasons we’re no longer good at analytical thinking or reasoning is we no longer do reading, and studying, and that’s what we used to do. We’re now a visual generation – if I can see it, but I don’t want to sit down and read it. If I can listen to it, but I don’t want to sit down and read it.

And because we don’t do reading we’re looking for the easiest way to do stuff. That’s really not a biblical way to do things is the easiest – although we want to be the most efficient way. Just because it’s easy doesn’t mean it works. And so the Bible’s got all these Bible verses on how important it is to have hard work. “€œSix days shalt thou labor”€ and it doesn’t say eight hours a day – it was sunup to sundown kind of stuff. The Bible says all hard work is profitable. You’ll find that nearly everything that’s good and lasting does not come easy. Even our salvation. We kind of take that as a cheap gift today.

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

But the Bible says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling – work it out. It’s not something that you go, “€œOkay, I prayed the prayer. I”€™m a Christian now. I’m going to heaven.”€ No, you work out your own salvation with–

Tim:

Let me even make sure we bring clarity to that because I can just imagine some people are going, “€œWait a second, are you saying we’re saved through works?”€ Well, no, obviously, right. Ephesians 2:8-9 – it’s by grace we have been saved. But Jesus did say you have to take up your cross daily and follow Me.

David:

That”€™s right.

The Right Perspective on Works

Tim:

So, even though it”€™s been a free gift given to us we don’t imagine that there’s nothing involved or required of us. Jesus told the Pharisees you’re supposed to show the fruits of repentance, right. You read James Chapter 2 – if there’s no works that accompany your faith your faith isn’t actually real. Paul says in Romans 8:29 we’re supposed to be conformed to the likeness of Christ, so our life is supposed to change and transform. There is something involved in us beyond just saying a few words that have become known as the sinner”€™s prayer.

And actually, one of the things Paul even wrote in Romans is that we should not abuse grace cheapening it, thinking that because we’re saved, well, I can do whatever I want, and act how I want, and sin. And he said, “€œShould we sin so that grace may abound?”€ He said, “€œNo, forbid it.”€ There’s a little more theology involved, but the point is, no, we do not earn our salvation. However, if we are saved our life should be transformed and there should be a lot of works that accompany that transformation, the bearing of fruit. Including crucifying our flesh, taking up our cross, that we have works that accompany our faith.

All of those are biblical positions and all of those require something from us. It’s not always easy, it’s certainly not convenient, it doesn’t always feel good, but it’s what we’ve been called to do as Christians.

David:

And it’s the kind of thing where that even Paul, who is the great expositor of grace   throughout Romans and so many other places. Paul says, “€œI have to discipline my body daily and make it my slave. I have to keep knocking it down.”€ Because, he said, our human nature wants to do the wrong thing and for the spiritual nature to win, I have to keep beating the carnal nature down. And so he talks about how that this is a daily fight for even him.

But I love the analogy he uses of I have to be like an athlete and discipline my body daily. And then later he tells us we’re in a race. He said, “€œRun the race as if you’re the one athlete that’s going to win”€ over in 1 Timothy. And you think how much training and hard work an athlete does if they”€™re going to win. If they’re going to be the winner at the Olympics look how much hard, they don’t just sit back and say, “€œWell, it”€™s the Olympics every four years. I’m going to show up and win.”€, they put hard work in it.

Looking For the Easy Way

David:

So, Christianity, in a lot of ways, has become very easy and we’re looking for an easy way to learn. Well, the Bible says you study to show yourself approved of God. You have to get in there and do some work. And when you do, you’re thinking develops, your common sense comes along, your analytical sense comes along, you start being able to have good discernment recognizing what’s true and what’s not true, soundbites don’t get you anymore, you get past all that shallowness.

Tim Barton:

Well, yeah. One of the things that, as you’re mentioning, we’ve seen in modern culture there’s been an effort to make Christianity very convenient, to make it an easy choice because we want everybody to come in. The problem is we’ve made the concept of becoming a Christian so simple that now most Christians are unbiblical and don’t know what the Bible says, right.

So, you even mentioned where Paul tells Timothy to study to show yourself approved. Most Christians don’t even know that that’s a verse in the Bible, much less that they should be studying to show themselves approved. Most Christians have never read the Bible. And again, we’ve tried to so simplify it, but we’ve oversimplified it, and we’ve lost a lot of significant doctrines and biblical teachings that we really ought to be thinking as Christians, “€œWhat does God want me to do? What does God have for me?”€ And we find that truth in the Bible.

Back to Mount Vernon

David:

And here’s a great example, Tim because you were just talking about how what’s in the Bible really gets away from us. Let me just read you something from George Washington. He’s talking to Marquis de Lafayette and this is what he says, he says, “€œMy dear Marquis, I am become a private citizen on the banks of Potomac.”€ In other words, I finally get to go back to Mount Vernon. And he says, “€œI’m under the shadow of my own vine and my own fig tree.”€

Now, that that I just read–

Tim:

I know what that is.

David:

Yeah, what is it?

Tim:

That’s a Bible verse.

David:

Oooh.

Tim:

Which I know is where you’re going, so I was going to let you finish. But yes, I actually know a couple of places that appears in the Bible. Nonetheless, please continue.

David:

That’s it. He”€™s verbatim quoting Micah 4:4. Now, I wonder how many Christians today would read that and say, “€œOh, he just quoted a Bible verse.”€ By the way, George Washington uses Micah 4:4 on 31 separate occasions – 31 occasions he quotes that Bible verse. We would read that continually and say, “€œMan, he’s a deist.”€ No, he’s quoting the Bible all over – we just don’t recognize it.

Tim:

Well, yeah. Specifically, he’s using language directly from the Bible that you don’t find somewhere else.

David:

That”€™s right.

George Washington Knew the Bible

Tim:

So, some would argue, “€œWell, he didn’t really mean to quote the Bible.”€ Where did he learn that phrase, right? Because this is the Bible phrase. You show me some secular writing this appeared. No, no, no, this came from the Bible which would be an indication that George Washington knew what was in the Bible, and actually knew it well enough to quote it, and apparently quoted it a lot – 31 times.

David:

And let me give you another example. Here is a very famous speech given on the 50th anniversary of the Constitution of the United States. It is the jubilee of the Constitution, 50th anniversary, it”€™s given by John Quincy Adams. Let me just read you what he says. He says, “€œFellow citizens, the ark of your covenant is the Declaration of Independence, your Mount Ebele is the confederacy of separate states sovereignties, and your Mount Gerizim is the Constitution of the United States.”€

Now, how many would say, “€œOh, that’s a direct quote out of Deuteronomy 11″€? And he continues, he says, “€œLay up the principles of the Declaration of Independence in your hearts and in your souls. Bind them for signs upon your hands that they may be as fronts between your eyes. Teach them to your children speaking to them when sitting in your houses, when walking by the way, when lying down and rising up. Write them upon the door plates of your houses and upon your gates.”€

Hollywood Is Finally Becoming Biblically And Constitutionally Literate

David:

Guess what? Direct quote from Deuteronomy 6 and Deuteronomy 11. That the speech is Bible verses all over, but we don’t recognize that today. And so what Janine”€™s saying is we”€™ve got to know the Bible again, but that actually takes some work. And I know we all have apps that we can use to listen to the Bible, but you know what? It really is good to sit down and read the Bible, actually see it, and spend some time in it. It’s a little more work, but it sticks with me even better. But I’m not against the apps. In fact, I even use the apps, but it’s still good to read and study the Bible and put some work into it. That’ll make a real difference.

Rick:

Special thanks to Janine Turner for joining us today. Thank you for listening. You’ve been listening to WallBuilders Live.