How To Destroy America In Three Easy Steps With Ben Shapiro – What does truth look like today? How do we share that truth with others? Join us today for this interview with Ben Shapiro, author of the new book, “How To Destroy America In Three Easy Steps.”
Air Date: 08/17/2020
Guest: Ben Shapiro
On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton
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Transcription note: Â As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.
Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture This is WallBuilders Live, it’s the place where we look at things from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective, whatever the issue of the day is, the hot topics of the day, what does the Bible say about it, that’s the greatest Book of Wisdom, there is where you find the right answers. What does history teaches about it? What can we learn from what other societies or even our own society has done in the past? What works? What doesn’t work? We can look at the results and it helps guide us in our decisions today. And then, of course, what does the constitution say about it? In our constitutional republic, here in America, we obviously want to make sure we’re following that document and if we don’t like it, we can amend it and change it. So, we need to know that constitutional perspective, we need to know that historical perspective, and we need to know that biblical perspective.
My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. And normally, I’m here with David Barton America’s premier historian, and our founder at WallBuilders and also with Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders.
But today, we’ve got a very special interview to share with you. Ben Shapiro was with us at patriot Academy. Just last week, we had a great time, he had a chance to speak to the students, the students always love it when Ben joins us. And we want to share that with you here on WallBuilders Live. So, we’re going to jump right into that interview with Ben Shapiro.
And I apologize up front, my audio is not great on this interview with Ben, we had him on our Zoom our virtual patriot Academy and so, the audio quality is not as good as we normally try to have here on WallBuilders Live, so please forgive that part of just my audio during this interview. Let’s jump into it. Here’s ben Shapiro at patriot Academy.
By the way, the new book is absolutely fantastic. Everybody out there, I recommend you get it. I’ve got one chapter left, Ben. But I really encourage everybody to get it “How to Destroy America in Three Easy Steps” and you’re not encouraging people to destroy America. Obviously, you’re revealing what the leftist have been doing for decades in our country and it’s a great history lesson as well. You cover things in here, there, frankly, we’ve left out of our classrooms for decades. So, thanks for bringing that to life. Thanks for all you guys do a Daily Wire. Thanks for what you’re doing to try to save our country.
I’m going to toss it over you and then if you don’t mind, I’ll start asking you questions from some of our students and some I’ve got myself, but you gave me hope even in the first chapter of the book. Even as I was talking to Michael Knowles earlier about, is just the fact that none of this is new. There have been people that wanted to rip our country apart from the very beginning and you set that up really well in the book. And I think that’s an important place to start, is for us not to think, as CS Lewis would say, to exaggerate the novelty of our circumstances. So, thanks for doing that. I’ll toss it over to you, Ben. Thanks for joining us, man.
I appreciate it. Yeah, history did not start with this particular generation, nor did problems start with this particular generation. I will say that sort of attempts to undermine American history at a time when we really should be less divided than ever. That’s what’s pretty incredible. You can understand why America was divided when slavery was a major part of American life; you can understand why America was divided when the civil rights movement was fighting the predations of Jim Crow. It’s very difficult to understand why America is so divided when it is federally illegal to discriminate, why there is so much hatred and rage in the streets at a time of before the pandemic unprecedented prosperity in American history. At a time when it seemed like things were going fairly well, frankly, and yet the amount of outrage the amount of anger, I mean, it was evident to me even before the pandemic that this was happening. I mean, I wrote this book in December or January, because it felt like the country seemed to be almost coming apart at it seems then obviously, it’s really accelerated in a major way.
What I posited in the book and it really goes to a lot of what I talk about on the show and just generally, is this conflict of visions that’s been happening in the country. One vision says that America is unified by certain really basic primary factors, philosophy, the philosophy of the Declaration of Independence that suggests that all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.
All of these concepts have long histories that go all the way back to ancient times and then develop over the course of millennia to culminate in the Declaration of Independence. The idea that government is created in order to protect those preexistent natural rights and that those rights preexists government and that government that invades those rights loses its reason for being. This was the basic American philosophy. That unified us, because we all basically agreed that liberty was the liberty to do all of that which we were allowed to do without hurting other people. So long as we were not hurting other people, the government had a role to protect our property, protect our life, protect our liberty. That was the common philosophy of the United States. It was not perfected from the outset in terms of to whom it would apply.
And the story of American history is an attempt to rectify that imbalance and attempt to correct the flaws of the founding history with the foundational principles of the country itself. And so, the story of America is about a country getting better at its founding principles and approaching the fulfillment of those founding principles. And that is a struggle carried on not obviously just by white Americans, but by Frederick Douglass, who said that the 4th of July does not apply to the American slave, but should apply to the American slave, is carried forward by Martin Luther King who suggested the Declaration of Independence provided a promissory note.
And that brings us to sort of the second thing that they used to unify us, the vision of American history, that America was innately good, that we didn’t live up to our promises. But the story of America is about not only the increasing attempt to live up to those promises, but also to spread liberty abroad, to spread prosperity abroad and to free the world of tyranny, for literally billions of people.
And so, we are unified by our philosophy, we are unified by our history and we were also unified by our culture. There were certain things that we valued culturally, we valued church, we valued family. These were institutions that lay at the root of our liberty and if we were not a virtuous people, we could not preserve our liberty and the American culture was created in preexisting America, but it was certainly re-enshrined in America as a set of institutions that were going to inculcate virtue.
We had to have a culture of entrepreneurship and adventure, a sense that every day we woke up and all we were guaranteed was the freedom to do what we wanted. The freedom of the adventure, I mean, that’s why people came to the United States leaving behind property in other countries in order to make a new world and a new life in the United States; a culture that valued other people’s rights that said, okay, well, we may disagree, but you still have the right to do all these various things, you still have a right to free speech, even if I disagree with you.
And the reason I talk in the book about the difference between not right and left, but unionism disintegration is because I think there are still some liberals who hold many of these principles. I just don’t think that there are a lot of radical leftists who hold those principles. And it’s important to recognize that there’s a whole different version of what the country ought to be that is coming from many of these people who are on the radical left and some people who are on sort of the alt right.
And that vision of the country is one that is not unified by the Declaration. The Declaration is bad. The Declaration is why all men are not created equal before the law. We have to have a law that treats people differently based on race, based on circumstance. We don’t have rights to the previous government, all rights come from government. We don’t have a culture of entrepreneurship and adventure. That stuff is exploitative. Church and family are exploitative institutions that have to be done away with: you see this in the Black Lives Matter Manifesto and from the organization. American history is the story of evil and predation and cruelty. That’s the story of the 1619 project. And that’s the separate vision of America we’re seeing kind of burst forth right now. So, that’s what’s in competition right now and if the union aside loses, the country will probably come apart.
And it is quite literally that different you even described in your book, it’s like the whole blue and white dress versus the golden white dress that everybody is seeing. It just depends on your eyes and your perspective which one it is. It’s like we’re looking at two totally different worlds. And it seems like we are that far apart and how we see what’s happening in the streets in America right now. In fact, one of the students has asked, how do you talk to a leftist? How do you deal with someone that’s not willing to talk rationally and logically? Going to get your answer on that when we come back. We got Ben Shapiro with us, folks, stay with us. We’re going to take a quick break. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.
This is Tim Barton from WallBuilders with another moment from American history. American patriot Paul Revere wrote to alert America of the impending arrival of the British, but he also sought patriot leader Samuel Adams and John Hancock to warn them that the British were seeking their execution.
Adams and Hancock were staying with the Reverend Jonas Clark in Lexington. When they asked pastor Clark if his church was ready for the approaching British, he replied, “I’ve trained them for this very hour, they will fight and if need be, die under the shadow of the house of God.” Later that morning, 70 men from his church, a several hundred British in the first battle of the war for independence. As Pastor Clark affirmed, “The militia that morning were the same who filled the pews of the church meetinghouse on the Sunday morning before.” The American church was regularly at the forefront of the fight for liberty.
For more information on this pastor and other colonial patriots, go to wallbuilders.com.
We’re are back here on WallBuilders Live. Ben Shapiro, our special guest today. You can of course here Ben and read his articles at Daily Wire, we encourage you to do that. Check it out. He was our special guest at Patriot Academy and had a chance to visit with the students of Patriot Academy which was a big hit for them of course. We love having been as a part of Patriot Academy. Ben, before we went to break you were talking about the divide and one of the students asked specifically how do you talk to people that are so emotional and so radical that they can’t talk logic and reasoning with you.
I mean, you always have to have the audience in mind. This is sort of the first rule of debate, is no to whom you’re talking, you’re not trying to convince the leftist this across from you that you’re right, that will defeat the purpose of the debate. The purpose is to convince people in the audience. So, if there is an audience, then you’re wasting your time. If the audience are people who are motivated to think that you’re evil and no matter what you say, then you’re also wasting your time. If there’s an audience, people who are at least somewhat open-minded, then you can make a dent, and facts and logic do make a dent and being calm and debate makes a dent. But you really do have to think about the purpose of the conversation before you have the conversation.
A lot of young people, I mean, I did this myself, you know, probably when I was a teenager. Just getting in debates for the sake of getting in debates, because sometimes it’s fun, but it’s not necessarily effective. And very often it ends up with you on sort of the chopping block for canceled culture without you having achieved anything that was really super worthwhile. So, you really have to sort of think of the end before you begin.
What would you say to not just young people, really everyone out there as we’ve seen such a move towards following your feelings instead of the facts? I mean, how do you get people to come back to reason and thinking and say, hey, be willing to seek truth, your gut reaction is not always going to be right? Seems like that’s part of why we’re losing, is people just don’t think anymore. Maybe we’re just not reading anymore. I don’t know. But what would you say, especially these young people that are with us today that genuinely say, I don’t want to fall into that category and sometimes I find myself there? How do I get to the point of thinking more and not just feeling?
Well, what I would say is that study topics that don’t necessarily get you passionate, which is kind of counterintuitive. But the stuff that makes you passionate tends to create an insane level of confirmation bias because you really care deeply about something and so you read only the stuff you agree with, does it makes you feel good, it’s very difficult to read stuff that you disagree with. Start with topics where you may not know much and get a more well-balanced view of those topics without feeling your emotions invoked and then you can sort of carry it over to topics where you have more emotional investment, because you already have the practice to strengthen the muscle of listening to various sides of the argument.
I’d start with that. The problem of discussing a type of somebody who’s emotional, it never works, okay? It doesn’t work in marriage. It doesn’t work in life. It just does not work. The worst thing you can ever say to somebody who’s emotional is, of course, calm down. Right? If ever my wife is upset and I say to her calm down, I have immediately violated the cardinal rule of a successful marriage.
And the only thing that you can basically do is wait for things to cool down and provide a sympathetic ear, but you have to determine again, the purpose of the conversation. Sometimes all that people want is a sympathetic ear and they don’t actually want to have a conversation. Sometimes if they talk it out and you provide a sympathetic ear, that opens the door to a conversation and say, listen, I totally understand how you’re feeling. I understand why you would think that. And if you want to have a conversation about that, we can have a conversation about what the evidence tends to show.
But if the person insists on being in that emotional state, there’s no way to shake somebody out of the emotional state. The only way that I found you can shake somebody out of anger, angry, you can sometimes shake people out of. Because anger is sometimes blunted with you pointing out that people are acting badly. If people are feeling sad or if they’re feeling wrong, then it’s very difficult to get them to feel not sad and not wrong. But if they’re feeling angry at you, particularly if they’re being a jerk to you, you can sometimes say listen, you’re being a jerk to me, and that’s not called for. And sometimes that takes people out of it a little bit.
As you watched the jumping on the bandwagon of an admitted Marxist organization and Black Lives Matters and the money flowing from big corporations, and frankly, what used to be conservative corporations and evangelicals jumping on board, I mean, just it seemed like everybody jumped on the bandwagon right off the bat, how did you maintain hoping that and realize, okay, that’s not the whole world, we’re not alone, there are a lot of people that do see this for what it is? How did you maintain hope when this thing just seemed like a train leaving the station?
So, I think there are a couple things to note. One is that corporations are not generally conservative, corporations are profit seeking, and they usually will answer the squeakiest wheel. So, if there are a bunch of people out there who just yell at a corporation long enough, you can get a corporation to do nearly anything. That’s what Media Matters does with advertisers.
By the way, I know this works, because I ran accounts for Media Matters for the right trying to tell the left to stop doing this and it was called Truth Revolt. And we would get like 15-20 people call a corporation, you could get an advertiser to pull an ad like a million dollar ad campaign with 15 or 20 calls. That’s how sensitive these corporations are to being publicized or to getting even a slight bit of bad publicity.
So, I don’t take their opinions as anything other than willingness to be intimidated and very few of these places are willing to stand up for themselves. Now, that’s scary, but it doesn’t speak to their actual resonance to the message. Right? I don’t think that anybody believes that JC Penney’s has decided that they have radically re-shifted their notions on race in America. I think that everybody understands JC Penney is just trying to pay off the media so the media will stop bothering them.
And the media become an activist wing here, right? The media will go to JC Penney, what’s your comments on Black Lives Matter? We’re a discount clothing store, what are you talking about? But the purpose there is to intimidate, it is not to actually be journalistic, obviously. But the other thing is that it’s important to recognize when people are engaging in, the linguistic term is semantic overload. My friend, Eric Weinstein has pointed this out. Semantic overload is when somebody uses a term that has more than one available meaning and then it’s very often connected with what’s called the motte-and-bailey argument.
If you think of like a medieval fortress, usually up on top of a hill, there was the motte and then down at the bottom of the hill was a town, that’s called the Bailey. And the idea was that if somebody attacked the Bailey, then you would retreat up the hill into the sort of tower on top of the hill that was called the motte. So, motte-and-bailey arguments work the same way.
Somebody will say Black Lives Matter and Black Lives Matter will be the motte, right that’s the thing at the top of the hill. And the Bailey will be America is systemically racist and if you disagree, then you have internalized racism. And you will attack that argument and say, well, I don’t agree with that. That makes no sense. And they’ll immediately say, well, what you don’t agree the Black Lives Matter? Right, which is an utterly uncontroversial opinion if stripped of all available nuance.
So, they’ve engaged in this sort of this semantic overload, where Black Lives Matter actually means three separate things. One, the movement, right the actual organization, which is a garbage Neo-Marxist organization, two, the utterly uncontroversial proposition that Black Lives Matter, just as all other lives matter, because of course, black lives matter because that’s crazy to think not. And three, the position that there are tons of Americans who don’t believe Black Lives Matter, so we have to overtly say that in order to intimidate other Americans into saying America is systemically racist, right? So, two of those three definitions suck.
But if you question either of the other two definitions, then everybody will retreat to the motte on top of the hill and say, so you don’t believe Black Lives Matter? Which is just a cheap gaslighting tactic. So, I think most Americans were intimidated into going along with it, but I don’t think that most Americans deep down actually believe that America is systemically racist, I just think that they’ve been intimidated. Which means that the more people stand up and say no, I’m not going to participate in this, I refuse to allow myself to be canceled or other people to be canceled, I think there’s a backlash building. I wish that President Trump were a better vehicle for that backlash, but I think that there is a backlash to it.
Yeah, I agree with you, you know, and especially when you watch the riots over at night after night after night in Portland, Seattle and the other cities, that’s building the backlash, I think is as well. But it does seem like even a lot of the people that just jumped on the virtue signaling are now second guessing themselves as they see more of the facts and see more of what went wrong. Okay. Let me ask you this.
I’ve had a lot of people that are, I mean, smart folks, thinking folks saying to me privately, you know, almost the same thing that Walsh said publicly in his article a couple months ago. Is that, are these irreconcilable differences? You take a different tack in the book. I mean, you basically say no, we faced a “that type of thing in the past and brought ourselves together”. The unionists would say, look, we can save this country and the principles are worth fighting for. So, how would you respond to those people that say it’s Just too far gone and there’s too much of a split?
I don’t know most Americans have thought about the issues, so I think our educational system has been just a disaster area, so I don’t think most Americans have thought deeply about this stuff. They just have sort of a basket of sentiments. And the basket of sentiments generally are things like the Declaration of Independence is good, but also, I think Black Lives Matter and so you never think about like, what do those things mean? Do you actually agree with the fundamental principles of the Declaration? If you don’t know what they are, then how could you? When you say the Black Lives Matter, and you agree with them, like what are we talking about here? Are we talking about how police brutality is bad? Or are we talking about how America is systemically racist and black Americans are under existential threat?
Most Americans don’t follow this stuff particularly closely. And so, the notion that we are on the verge of dissolution, I think is not correct, mainly because I think most Americans have not even taken part in the ideological battle at this point in time. Now, it is true that you can rope a country into civil war simply because small groups of motivated people are able to sort of hold the rest of the country in that direction. But I don’t think that most Americans want that. I don’t think most Americans have a taste for that. And I do think that we’re about to go through a fairly dark period in American history here where cities start to degrade and where people start to polarize along political lines.
And listen, I’ll be honest with you. I’m happy to make a lot of money off of basically starting a bunch of right-wing versions of left-wing companies and just allowing people who agree with me to get products from a place they don’t feel guilty buying. I’m happy to be Black Rifle coffee, right, which was launched in opposition to Starbucks, basically and we can have like conservative tennis shoes in opposition to Nike. But I don’t think it’d be good for the country. I think most Americans are not super interested in that. I think that there’s sort of a temporary buy off happening here. And when Americans get bored with it, I think it’ll stop, I hope.
And sounds like you’re saying there’s still room for the education factor that has been left out?
Yeah, Americans don’t know anything. Americans don’t know anything. I mean, about by polling data, Americans don’t know anything. And so, the notion that everybody’s already made up their mind on this issue, isn’t like everybody is made up their mind on Trump, because you see him and you make up your mind. But when it comes to American history, I just don’t think most Americans have made up their mind because I don’t think most Americans know five threads of American history.
Yeah. I love that. And that’s hopefully, if there’s a wake up call, it is to learn more and that people are now going, wait a minute what is happening in our streets and how do we get there? And they’re willing to ask questions. I’ve seen people that used to ignore me on all this kind of stuff and now they’re at least willing to have a conversation and talk about it. The uninterested are definitely more interested.
Okay. So, most important, in addition to I mean, obviously, “How to Destroy America in Three Easy Steps” would be the most important book anyone could read at this time. But in addition to that, for especially our young leaders here in their early 20s, late teens, most important couple books you’d recommend to them.
Well, and economics, I always recommend Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. It’s just a good primer, it’s like 150, 160 pages you can read, it’s pretty easy read. It’s an easier version of Basic Economics by Thomas Sol, and it’s very clearly written and understandable. So, that would definitely be one.
In terms of American history, it depends on how much time you have on your hands. And I will say that I think that my book is a good primer on American history. There’s a full chapter that’s about 25 pages long, right, just race through American history and give you a very brief overview of that. There’s a chapter on American philosophy that gives you a very brief overview of American philosophy in like 30 pages or less. So, it is a good overview that way.
If you’re looking for something a little bit more in depth, then, the work of Gordon Wood is very good on the American Revolution and the Constitution of the United States. There are some good works of history by for example, Paul Johnson, “The history of the American People” is very good. All those would be good place to start. And if you want primary sources, Federalist Papers is obviously a great source.
Which by the way, thanks for doing the Federalist Papers review with Knowles on the book club, we’re going to watch that later this weekend here at Patriot Academy. But now, I do want to emphasize it is a great primer on history of America and defense of America. And I just love the fact that you did this in December, in January, not even I mean, kind of saw it coming, but not knowing it would be this bad. America is on trial in many people’s minds right now and so you give a great defense of the philosophy of America and our history.
Ben Shapiro, always a pleasure, man. Thank you so much for joining us and we’ll send people out to get the book.
And thanks so much.
That was Ben Shapiro at the Patriot Academy, a chance to speak to those young leaders of the next generation. And we encourage you to follow Ben at Daily Wire, listen to his podcast and read those articles there. Daily Wire is just doing a phenomenal job at influencing the culture in a positive way. And we’re going to have a chance to hear from some of the other guys from Daily Wire. Jeremy Boring, our good friend, Michael Moles, Andrew Klavan. They just have a voice that is needed right now, bringing some common sense to the chaos out there.
And we’re thankful of Patriot Academy to be teaming up with those speakers and influencers and just folks that care this much about the country, that they’re willing to speak truth regardless of what it costs them regardless of what others are going to say to them. And by the way, I forgot Matt Walsh, of course we have him on the radio program often anyway, but he also shared with Patriot Academy, so we’ll be bringing you that interview as well in the next couple of weeks. So be watching for those Daily Wire interviews and other special interviews we had at Patriot Academy. Last week, we shared Voddie Baucham with you, that was incredible. We’ve got others coming up, Allie Stuckey and a lot of great folks. Anyway, we’re going to take a quick break. We’ll be right back for our closing segment of the day here on WallBuilders Live. We sure appreciate you listening. Stay with us, you’re listening to WallBuilders Live.
Hey friends, this Rick Green from WallBuilders Live and I have had so many requests about, what in the world could we be studying at home right now you know I got the kids at home, they’re normally in school? Or if you homeschool, you’re looking for additional material. One-Room Schoolhouse. It is a great new series WallBuilders is putting out where you literally get a tour of the WallBuilders library as Tim Barton and Jonathan Ritchie bring history to life. There’s a couple of resources on this.
You go to YouTube and search for WallBuilders and look for a One-Room Schoolhouse. You can go to our Facebook page and get it right there on Facebook as we do it live each Monday and sometimes additional days from there. And then you can also just go to wallbuilders.com, scroll down to the bottom and we’ll be posting the videos as they come out. This is such a great way to learn and a great way for you to share with others. Gather the family around, watch the One-Room Schoolhouse and learn some great history. It’ll be vitally important to restoring our nation and bringing back these principles that made America great in the first place. Check it out [email protected].
Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on WallBuilders Live. Earlier in the program, we had Ben Shapiro, he was sharing with the students of Patriot Academy, I just thought it’d be good time to tell you a little bit more about Patriot Academy and the leadership training program. That’s our two programs that are targeted to young people. We really believe in following John Jay’s advice to teach the rising generation to be free. Doesn’t happen by accident. Just because you’re born in America doesn’t mean you understand freedom. That is obvious from what we’re seeing right now in the streets of America. And so, we think it’s very, very important to make sure that that rising generation gets this.
And so, at Patriot Academy, we take 16 to 25 year olds, and give them a chance to be immersed into a mock legislative session to debate the great issues of the day while hearing from great speakers like Ben Shapiro, who we heard today and so many others David Barton and Tim Barton both speak and train these young people. We have many others that come in and teach them and not only teach them philosophy of government and Founding Fathers philosophy, biblical worldview of government, but also teach them skills that they need to be successful in whatever arena they’re going to go into.
And don’t get me wrong. Patriot Academy is not for just young people that are interested in government in the political realm. This is for anyone that wants to be a good citizen, that wants to make sure that they’re living out the biblical command, to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and in America, we are Caesar, we the people. And so, we as citizens have to know our duty and we have to do our duty. We have to make sure that we’re participating in the process. And so that’s what we train at Patriot Academy, 16 to 25 year olds.
And then 18 to 25 year olds can be a part of the leadership training program at WallBuilders, that’s available at our website, wallbuilders.com. And by the way, if you want to know more about Patriot Academy, same thing, patriotacademy.com. But at wallbuilders.com, you can check out the leadership training program and this is an amazing opportunity for those young leaders, 18 to 25 years old to get to come in and spend two weeks with a Barton’s at the WallBuilders library, with Glenn Beck at the Glenn Beck studios and with others, it’s an amazing opportunity. In fact, we have a lot of students that do Patriot Academy and the leadership training program. So, check that out, it won’t be happening again till next summer.
But now is the time to plan both of those programs. You can learn more at the links today at wallbuilders.com. Those two links will be patriotacademy.com, and then wallbuilders.com and then search for the leadership training program. Our goal is to make sure that we are actively protecting the torch of freedom but that we’re also purposely passing the torch of freedom to the next generation, making sure that we’re teaching the rising generation to be free.
You can be a part of that by sending students our way or maybe you’re a young person listening right now and you want to know more about getting involved in those programs, go to those links today. You can get involved by telling young people about it and sending them our way or by donating. When you donate it while wallbuilders.com, that helps make all of these programs possible. Go to wallbuilders.com today, when you donate, it makes it possible for us to share interviews just like we did today with Ben Shapiro, it makes it possible for us to have Patriot Academy and our leadership training program, our pastors briefings that we do in Washington, DC, our teacher training, all the different things we’re doing. You come alongside us and lock shield with us when you make that donation. So, I encourage you to go to wallbuilders.com today and become a supporter of the solution. You can complain about what’s happening in the streets of America all day long, but if you want to be a part of the solution, join us at WallBuilders Live. Check it out at wallbuilders.com today. Thanks so much for listening to WallBuilders Live.
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