Impeaching Trump Again? – What Should Christians Do Now?: Exactly why does Pelosi want to impeach Trump? Could it really happen Constitutionally? Also, what should Christians do in times like these? Can we still restore our Biblical values and our Constitutional Republic? Tune in to find out why now is the time to run to the roar!

Air Date: 01/12/2021

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton


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Transcription note: As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith and the Culture


This is the intersection of faith and the culture. It’s WallBuilders Live, where we talk about the hottest topics of the day, faith, culture, elections, all of those things from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. My name is Rick Green. I’m a former Texas legislator and America’s Constitution coach. 

And I have the honor of being here with David Barton. He’s America’s premier historian, our founder at WallBuilders, a great mentor and someone that’s really educated the American people on the truth about our history, where we came from, and what the secret sauce is that produces a great nation. Tim Barton is with us, national speaker and pastor and president of WallBuilders. Someone that has just some powerful, powerful presentations right now that are so needed in our culture.

The research that these guys have done in their library that has, frankly, that’s the largest private collection of Founding Fathers documents that anybody has, it’s an incredible working collection where, you know, don’t just have stuff you go in there and look at, they actually study it, and then put it out there for us so that we can get good answers to what we need to do to restore our nation. So it really is an honor and a privilege to be able to be here with these guys and, and work with them on a daily basis here on WallBuilders Live.

Speaking of daily, if you’d like to grab some of our programs in the past few days or weeks that you might have missed, you can do that on our website, And that’s also the place to make a contribution, takes money to make a radio program work. And we are a listener-supported radio program. 

So all of you across the nation that support us and help us amplify this voice of truth out there. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you. If you’ve never done that before, and you’d be willing to help us out, please go to, click on the donate button and make that one-time or monthly contribution. We greatly appreciate that.

Constitutional Minute

We’re going to share a couple of things with you today. This first segment, we’re going to share with my Constitutional Minute that I recorded earlier on the 25th Amendment, and impeachment, a lot of stuff out there right now about what might happen in Washington, DC. 

So just a quick primmer from the Constitution on how the 25th Amendment works, whether or not that’s appropriate in this situation under any perspective of what’s happened. And then, of course, a review of how impeachment works since it looks like Speaker Pelosi is bent on that direction. So let’s jump into that Constitutional Minute first. And then later in the program, we’re going to be bringing you a special presentation from David Barton given recently just over the last couple of days, a presentation called “Running to the Roar.” Alright. First, the Constitutional Minute on the 25th Amendment and impeachment.


Hey, fellow patriots, Rick Green here with today’s Constitutional Minute on the 25th Amendment and impeachment. Obviously, a lot of talk about that right now across the country as the Democratic leadership tries to unite the country by dismissing half the country. Anyway, here’s how the Constitution actually works on this issue. First of all, 25th Amendment, that’s what Nancy Pelosi is calling for.

In order to invoke the 25th, there are two ways to do that. The first way is Section 3 in the 25th Amendment, which is where the President himself or herself says I’m invoking the 25th because I’m going into for surgery or whatever it might be. That has happened three times in American history, President Reagan, and then George W. Bush did it twice: all three times for surgeries, they were out for a couple of hours. That’s not what we’re talking about here.

Section 4 of the 25th Amendment

We’re talking about Section 4 in the 25th Amendment, which is where the Vice President of the United States and half the cabinet decide that the President is incapacitated, incapable of doing the job. This was foreseen and passed because of what had happened to Eisenhower, for instance, who had a heart attack and other illnesses. 

You had Garfield had been shot and didn’t die for 80 days, so there was a question of, okay, who’s president who’s acting president? So these things that happened in history and actually on the heels of Eisenhower was when the 25th was finally passed, and that happened in 65/66. Okay, so here’s how it’s supposed to work.

If the president is actually incapacitated, either an accident and in the hospital, and nobody knows when he’s going to come out, has been kidnapped, has gone mentally crazy, perhaps we’re going to see this happen with a Biden administration, as he’s clearly losing his faculties. You know, I would expect the 25th to be invoked appropriately at some point in the next four years. But to do this right now with President Trump, who is clearly not incapacitated, and clearly has his mental faculties.

But they’re just creating this scenario to try to say that he is not, frankly, mentally well, because of the things he said like, hey, let’s be peaceful and let’s be patriotic, and let’s cheer on our congressman. I mean, it absolutely is abusing the intent of the 25th Amendment. And that’s why it won’t happen.

I mean, look, they have to have Vice President Pence to do this. He has to instigate this with the Cabinet. And even if in some crazy world that happened, he would need half the Cabinet and the members of the Cabinet that would have been likely to side with this have already resigned. So they’re not even on the Cabinet anymore. And even if he got half the Cabinet, well, the President can immediately dispute that.

A Much Higher Bar

And in fact, if you go to the 25th Amendment in Section 4, if the Vice President does this, then the President can immediately dispute that, and then it goes to the House and the Senate, and they have to vote two-thirds to uphold the 25th Amendment in this case. So we’re talking both House and the Senate have to vote two-thirds. So this is a much higher bar than impeachment. We’re talking two-thirds of the House and the Senate and then half of the President’s own cabinet and his own Vice President. Not going to happen.

Now, what’s next? Well, Speaker Pelosi has said that if Mike Pence does not invoke the 25th, then that she will move for articles of impeachment. They’ve already filed the Articles of impeachment, they’re headed that direction. So let’s quickly run through how impeachment works as well.

Impeachment comes from Article 2 Section 4, which says the President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United States shall be removed from office on impeachment for and conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Now they’re claiming that he incited a riot. Anybody that watches his speech knows that didn’t happen. Anybody that watches the whole afternoon knows that he did not incite the rioting and cannot be held responsible for the actions of a few out of those hundreds of thousands of patriotic freedom loving and peaceful Americans.

If that’s the standard, then we clearly do need impeachment hearings for Kamala Harris and she encouraged rioters this summer to continue and to not let up. We need impeachment hearings for several of the members of Congress who encouraged the riots this summer and encouraged, even Cory Booker, Senator Booker encouraged these people to get in the face of members of Congress. So if this is going to be the standard, then they’ve already missed their chance to use impeachment for folks that that clearly need it.

The Senate Shall Have the Sole Power

Now, technically, impeachment for members of Congress doesn’t apply. That’s a separate process that the house in the senate undergoes. This article, Article 2, Section 4 clause for impeachment of the President doesn’t apply to members of Congress, but it could very well apply to Kamala Harris after she was sworn in as Vice President of the United States. So let’s look at how the impeachment would work since they’re clearly going to go forward with it. This is their idea of how to unite the country.

If they impeach the president again and they only need a majority in the House to actually impeach. But remember, impeach is like in being indicted by a grand Jury. It’s not a conviction. It’s not a finding of guilt or innocence. It’s simply saying there’s enough here that we think we should have a trial. And so if they do, in fact, impeach the President on this, then the Senate is the one that tries that impeachment, and that is found in Article 1, Section 3, Clause 6.

It says “The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside and no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the members present.

So here we go again, if we do this, again, it’s going to be a trial in the Senate. And the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court will come over and oversee that trial, and to convict, they need 67 Senators to convict. Now, there’s clearly some Republicans that if you watch what’s happened in the last few weeks, I think we’ll support this.

Can they get 17 Republicans to support it? I don’t know. I doubt it. But that’s where they’re headed. Now, timing is almost impossible here. The resolutions and the process that the Senate has already adopted for the next week or so only allow them to do business on the 19th of January and very little business, then.

January 20 at 1:00

Mitch McConnell has said that they couldn’t actually take up this until one o’clock on the 20th, which is an hour after the President’s no longer in office. Impeachment does not apply to someone that is no longer an officer. So if he’s not President or Vice President or another officer, he can’t be impeached. So that process would not would not go forward.

Let me address one of the thing with regard to impeachment. When someone is convicted of impeachment, then the punishments are found in the next paragraph. in Article 1, Section 3, it says “Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office, and disqualifications to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States. But the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment, and punishment according to law.”

Basically, it means if they were to convict the President of impeachment here, then their only options for punishment are removal from office, which is what they’re really after, and then preventing him from being able to serve again. That’s what Nancy Pelosi is after. And those are two steps. And sometimes we’ve seen federal judges be impeached and removed from office but not prevented from serving and other offices.

Judge Alcee Hastings was convicted on impeachment and then they did not take the second step of preventing him from running for office. So he ended up running for congress and serving in Congress. So pretty crazy there. But listen, bottom line is 25th Amendment is not likely. I mean, that’s 0.0000% chance of actually happening.

Impeachment is very, I think, possible because they only need a majority vote in the House. Conviction is not likely based on the timing here, would set a horrible, horrible precedent for what is an impeachable offense and removing a president from office the day before his term ends. So terrible precedent here. Not likely to happen. But I thought it was important for us to understand how the 25th Amendment works and how impeachment works under the Constitution. I’m Rick Green. This has been today’s Constitutional Minute.

Constitution Alive!

Have you ever wanted to learn more about the United States Constitution but just felt like, man, the classes are boring or it’s just that old language from 200 years ago or I don’t know where to start? People want to know but it gets frustrating because they don’t know where to look for truth about the Constitution either.

Well, we’ve got a special program for you available now called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. And it’s actually a teaching done on the Constitution at Independence Hall in the very room where the Constitution was framed. We take you both to Philadelphia, the cradle of liberty and Independence Hall and to the WallBuilders library, where David Barton brings the history to life to teach the original intent of our Founding Fathers.

We call it The Quickstart Guide to the Constitution, because in just a few hours through these videos, you will learn the citizens guide to America’s Constitution, you’ll learn what you need to do to help save our constitutional republic. It’s fun, it’s entertaining, and it’s going to inspire you to do your part to preserve freedom for future generations. It’s called Constitution Alive with David Barton and Rick Green. You can find out more information on our website now and


We’re back here on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. We are going to dive into a presentation given just a couple of days ago by David Barton. And this is just timely. I mean, we need this message where everybody’s kind of looking for answers right now and asking questions about what do we do and how do we bring our nation back to a revival place where we could restore these founding principles and restore our constitutional republic and restore biblical values? So let’s jump in. Here’s David Barton.

We Must Change Our Thinking


Well, obviously, for a lot of Christians, this is a time of somewhat confusion, things didn’t turn out the way people thought or believe or even the way we had been praying. And the best thing to say at a time like that is a very simple statement. And you’ll see it up here on the screen, but it’s let not your heart be troubled.

Now, the reason that’s significant is we were part of so many things that were happening with praying, praying in DC, so many of the prayer rallies that went on there across the nation was part of all these prayer, things that were going on before on internet, on Zoom, on camera, on all sorts of stuff. And people thought they knew the outcome that was coming, at least that’s why they were praying. It didn’t happen the way they prayed. Does that mean God’s screwed up? No. So it means we need to change our thinking.

So that’s what I’m wanting to hit this morning. What’s our new mode of thinking? Because there’s a different way we have to think and I think this is a good wake up call for the entire church, because it’s time for a thinking shift nationally with all Christians. So in doing that, what I want to do is I’m going to go through some biblical and historical lessons to start with, and then give you kind of a plan of attack of what I think is going to happen from here out.

So going through the biblical and historical lessons, what I’m going to start with is a lion. I want to talk about the lion for a bit. The Bible has a lot to say about lion. You can look up the verses, there’s a lot of verses that are there. And in looking them up, there’s a lot we can learn from the lion.

When you look at lions, we know that they’re called the king of the beast. And they’re that for a reason, because they are fearsome and awesome among the beasts. When they roar, everybody else trembles. I mean, they don’t have the predators. They are the predator. They’re the top of the pile, so to speak. So when a lion roars, it gets the attention of everything else that’s out there.

Lions in the Savannas

Now, lions interestingly live in Africa and Savannas and the Savannas are kind of interesting. And it’s interesting to see what happens on the Savanna with the lions and how they use the Savanna how they use their atmosphere around them. When you look at lions, they each have a specific duty. And so what will happen is on the Savanna, when that lion roars it can be heard all over the savanna. They say that a lion’s roar can be heard from five to eight miles away. So when a lion roars, you hear all the way across those planes, it’s everywhere.

And so the roar of a lion has significance for what they do with their prey. What will happen is on the Savanna, the male lion will get at one end of the Savanna and the female lions will get at the other end of the Savanna. And the reason they do that is, the male lion is not a good hunter, he makes a lot of noise, but he’s not a good hunter. The females are the hunters. They’re quick. They’re the ones who kill the prey. They don’t roar. They don’t make noise like the other does. But it’s the male line that makes all the noise. And so what happens is the other animals are scared of him.

And so he gets at one end, and he starts roaring. And when he starts roaring, and again, you hear it all over the Savanna. When he starts roaring, the animals start running away from the roar, because he’s fearsome. They run right at the waiting arms of those who aren’t making any noise. And that’s how lions kill their prey. And it’s a great way that they do the teamwork on it. And the animals that are prey have no clue.

See, the problem they have is they don’t understand that if you want a safe space with a lion, what you have to do is you have to run to the roar. Now that’s counterintuitive for the way that we think. But you say he’s the slowest one among them, he may be powerful. And if you get in his reach, he will tear you to pieces with a swipe, but he’s still the slowest.

Your best opportunity for living is to run to the roar. And that’s counterintuitive for the way that we think. We hear a big ding going on, we want to get away from that. Yeah, that’s where they’re waiting for you on the other side. That’s not where you want to go.

Satan is as a Roaring Lion

So when you consider the Scripture that says Satan’s as a roaring lion, best thing to do is run to the roar. Now, that means we have to engage in a new way of thinking, because that’s not… Our natural thing is like all the other animals, we’re going to run away from that, because that’s where the danger is, you run away from it. And that’s really not that the way we want to think about it. Let me see if I can make this and point in a different way. Let’s go back to run into the roar.

We run to the roar. Why in the world would we do that? Because there’s another scripture that says, the righteous are bold as a lion. That’s supposed to be us. We’re supposed to be the ones doing the roar. So instead of us running from the roar, we ought to be running to the roar, because we are the ones that should be roaring. Now, we often think of ourselves like lambs.

And you know, there’s a problem with that, because the Scripture tells us in Proverbs 23:7, that as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. You start thinking like a lamb, you start acting like a lamb. You start thinking like a lion, you start acting like a loan. Whole different way of thinking.

And so run into the roar, it’s a whole different way of thinking. And this is what the church has not been good at. We’ve not been offensive-minded. We’ve been defensive-minded. When something comes at us, we’ll stand and fight it, but we’re not going to go engage, and we’re not going to be offensive-minded. And the best defense is a good offense.

You want the other guys responding, and you have known this in politics for a long time. I can tell when our guys are losing because they’re responding to the charges that are being made against them, rather than making the charges and the other guys having to respond.

When you have to respond to what is happen in offense, then you’re losing. When you’re creating the offense making the other side respond, then you’re winning. And so being offensive-minded is where it is. Now let me even see if I can go a different point to make this. Let me take you to scriptures that happen. And as we know in the Scriptures, there’s two very different places that we will spend eternity: there’s heaven and there’s hell. We know they both are very real, they both exist.

The Cowards

And in hell, we know that hell is a very real place. There’s a lot of people who don’t think that hell is a real place. Hell is a real place. We know that from number of scriptures, not the least of which is Revelation 21:8, there’s the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. So there is a very genuine real place called hell. Who goes to hell?

First part of the verse tells us. First part of the verse says that the faithless, the detestable, the murderers, the sexually immoral, the sorcerers, the idolaters, and all liars go to that lake of fire. Now look at all the bad stuff up there, murder and liars and sorcerers, and that’s some really bad stuff, except you’ll notice is there’s a blank up there. What is the first group that God sends to hell? First group says the cowards and the fearful.

Now everybody else up there is there for what they did: liars or murderers, or perjurers, or whatever. The first two are there for what they didn’t do, for lacking backbone, because they didn’t have backbone, because they weren’t courageous, because they were fearful. That’s interesting to me that the first group that God says, I don’t want you guys around me at all, are the people who have no backbone, the people who won’t stand, the people, just what it says, the cowards and the fear.

So that’s again run into the roar. Cowards and fearful will not run to the roar. And they don’t want to engage. They don’t want to be in that battle. They don’t like battles. That’s not who we are. If we’re going to do what God wants done for Christians, and for the church, and for the state and for the nation, we’re going to have to learn to run to the roar. We’re going to start engaging in a way that we have not engaged with before. We’ve been playing defense for about 40 years and we have seen our country slowly taken from us.

I’m going to show you some things that have happened even since the election that probably you haven’t heard about, it has now accelerated. We’ve seen little snippets along the way, now they feel empowered to be able to just take the rest away. And so the warfare will go up exponentially, likely over the next four years, and I’ll show you some of that coming. So we’ve got to get a different mindset. And let me even go to a different set of verses to make the point in a different way.

What Does Job Say?

If we go back to the Bible, in Job 39, I was just to listening to Job this morning as I was driving in. The first 38 chapters, you have Job and his three friends, if you can call them friends, you get job and those three, and then Elihu, who shows up in the middle, and he choose in both out one for being self-righteous and one for self-pity. And then God shows up in chapter 39.

And when God shows up, it’s you guys don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, none of you. And so he sets them straight, and as he does, he just overwhelms them by taking through what he’s done. Have you just never looked around? Are you guys that ignorant that you don’t see what’s going on around you?

And so part of the description that he has, he talks about the horse and how he made the horse. And in each of these, there’s a great passage in Job, first part of Job, I think is Job 12:7 and 8. It says ask the animals and they will teach you. And that’s a really, really powerful statement, because there’s so much we can learn from nature. We’re told in Romans 1:20, that there is nothing that God has created that doesn’t teach us a lesson.

It says everything that can be known about God included the intricacies that God has been revealed through what God has created, so that even the heathen are without excuse. So if you study nature, if you study animals, it is amazing what God has put in them that we should be learning from. Not the least of which is if you don’t have a savings account, you should.

Now, I can tell you that from Proverbs 6, but I can also tell you go to the ant sluggard. Remember, that’s the verse in Proverbs 6? What does the ant do? He stores up his provision because the ant understands that there are four seasons in a year, it’s not always going to be spring. See this what the federal government does.

The federal government thinks it’s always going to be spring and they spend as if it’s always spring. But winter comes and fall comes and summer comes and you have the law of seasons, God has given that and the ant understands that he needs to save his account because there’s going to be a time coming called winter they’re just going to have to live off what he gathered in the spring.

Lessons from a Horse

And so, that concept of even having a savings account is something that we learned from the animals, but again, it’s in the Bible as well. So going back to that, what the Bible says, what God says about the horse. He says, “Do you give the horse his strength or clothe his neck with a flowing mane? Do you make him leap like a locust, striking terror with his proud snorting?

He paws fiercely, rejoicing in his strength, and charges into the fray. He laughs at fear, afraid of nothing; he does not shy away from the sword. The quiver rattles against his side, along with the flashing spear and lance. In frenzied excitement he eats up the ground; he cannot stand still when the trumpet sounds. At the blast of the trumpet he snorts, `Aha!’ He catches the scent of battle from afar, the shout of commanders and the battle cry.”

This guy loves fights. He loves running into fights. Just let him get the scent of a fight and he’s headed that way. Let him hear the trumpet sound, he’s running right for it. This is what God made. Let’s run to the battle. Let’s engage.

And so this is the majesty of the horse. It’s interesting across history. We’ve seen that.

We see it even in artwork, you go back to ancient Egyptian artwork. The Egyptians, Assyrians, the Jews horses were a huge part of what happened in battle. It was the same way with the Romans and the Greeks and the Babylonians. It was the same way with the Celts as you move a little further in history. And it sets the same way with America. It’s the same way with a lot of modern nations.

Horses were a huge part of what happened. And they were a huge part of whether you win or whether you lose. This is why we had entire divisions of Cowboy. We had, this was a big deal. So horses and a war horse, having a war horse is something that God created. He said, did you make the horse? I did.

Laughing at Fear

And this is the way I made the horse. And so this again, is that offensive-minded stuff that God has. Now I want to pull out a few phrases here because God says it laughs at fear, afraid of nothing. It does not shy away from the sword. Pretty good.

Now, understand, I’m not talking too literal sword here. I’m talking the figurative sword or the political sword or the cultural sword or whatever. But all the pressure we get, all the names we get called, all the way we get doxed, all the way we get attacked all the social media stuff that comes in, does not shy away from the sword.

All the attacks that come which so many are verbal now, does not shy away from the sword. Continues. In frenzied excitement, it catches a scent of battle, I can’t wait for another good fight. Not many of us think that way. That’s the way God made it. I love having a good fight. So then you also have it cannot stand still when the trumpet sounds. It’s eager to get into fights.

Now, we’re not going to have any shortage of fights over the next several years. But you can’t get battle weary either. You have to love, this is what God made me for. God made me for going into fights and standing up and contending. And you remember even with David’s mighty men, the one guy who defended a bean patch.

Impeaching Trump Again? – What Should Christians Do Now?

Come on, you got to have something more glamorous to that. No, he defended it so long that they had to pry his fingers off the sword because his hand cleaved the sword. You got to be willing to fight for even the small things that that’s where you’ve been put. You fight for where you’ve been put. Even if the bean patch, has done many things that your commander said you defend that bean patch. Yes sir, I’ll get it done.


Alright, friends, we are out of time for today. We will catch you tomorrow right here on WallBuilders Live and we will pick up right where we left off with David Barton’s presentation “Running to the Roar”. Get more information at our website, As always, we thank you for listening to WallBuilders Live!