Joy Behar, “The View” Host, Mocks Mike Pence’s Faith: In today’s episode we talk with Dr. Everett Piper about the recent episode on The View where host, Joy Behar, demeans Mike Pence’s faith and the belief that he hears God. We discuss how this position is a dichotomy that the left often adopts. How can liberals claim to be tolerant yet are so intolerant of the Christian faith? And how should we as Christians respond to this kind of bigotry?

Air Date: 03/07/2018

Guest: Dr. Everett Piper

On-air Personalities: David Barton, Rick Green, and Tim Barton

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Transcription note:  As a courtesy for our listeners’ enjoyment, we are providing a transcription of this podcast. Transcription will be released shortly. However, as this is transcribed from a live talk show, words and sentence structure were not altered to fit grammatical, written norms in order to preserve the integrity of the actual dialogue between the speakers. Additionally, names may be misspelled or we might use an asterisk to indicate a missing word because of the difficulty in understanding the speaker at times. We apologize in advance.

Faith And The Culture

Rick:

Welcome to the intersection of faith and the culture. This is WallBuilders Live! Where we”€™re talking about today”€™s hottest topics on policy, faith, and the culture. We”€™re always doing that from a biblical, historical, and Constitutional perspective. And as often as possible, trying to respond to what’s happening right now in the news.

We’re here with David Barton, he”€™s America’s premier historian and Tim Barton, national speaker and pastor. My name is Rick Green, I’m a former Texas state legislator.

You can find out more about us at WallBuilders.com and WallBuildersLive.com.

David, Tim, speaking of what’s in the news– well, no, I don’t think you can call The View the news and I’m betting most of our folks at home that listen our program probably don’t watch The View. I think I’ve seen it maybe once, twice, maybe. But anyway, I’ve seen a lot of reports that–

David:

You”€™re two ahead of me if you’ve seen it twice.

Rick:

Well, a lot of reports about what’s happened or what happened the other day with, what’s her name, Joy Behar really going after Mike Pence–

David:

Yeah.

Rick:

–and his faith. You guys see some of the reports on this?

Lots of Reports Out There

David:

Yeah. There were a lot of reports out there and some of them weren’t necessarily accurate. They went after her tone. Because she attacked Mike Pence for his faith they said, “€œAll Christians are under attack.”€ And that’s not necessarily accurate.

Tim:

Well, yeah. So, one of the things that both sides are very quick to point out when one side misrepresents the other. And I would think that in this case probably there is some misrepresentation where we talk about the selective editing where you take clips and make it sound like something. When you read the full statements that she delivered on The View it certainly is a little different than just that one sound bite that says he has a mental illness because he’s a Christian. Well, it was a little differently presented then that little soundbite, but it’s not a whole lot better.

David:

Yeah.

Tim:

It certainly– she did say that, but the context does make it a little bit different. So, not at all defending Joy Behar. Although, it’s not as bad as some people painted it just because they painted it so dramatic and so extreme.

But certainly she does take a very anti biblical position and I believe she’s Catholic. So, she is coming from a semi religious position herself– semi religious meaning I don’t know how devoted and how active she is.

David:

She may be a Nancy Pelosi Catholic.

Tim:

Right. So, I don’t know that she– that the values of Catholicism have really kind of flown out of her life. But she is someone who acknowledges God, but has a very different view than even what the Bible says on these issues.

A Very biblical Position

David:

Yeah. And, Tim, you mentioned that some that was mischaracterized. So, let me go back to what she actually said and what she harped on in the interview. The first thing she harped on was that Mike Pence is having these voices in his head because he says God talks to him. Well, that actually is a very biblical position.

If you go back even to Deuteronomy four when Moses has got all the children of Israel there and he”€™s saying, “€œSearch back since creation, see if anything this great has ever happened.”€ And think of all the great things that happened since creation all the way up to the birth of Israel. He says that God speaks to people and that’s a big deal.

We know Jesus repeats the same thing in John 10. He says, “€œI’m the Shepherd. You’re My sheep. My sheep hear my voice.”€ So, Jesus says it, Moses says it, Old or New Testament you hear from God.

Tim:

By the way, let me point out– every single prophet in the Bible delivered the message that God gave to them. So they get a word from God and they go do–

David:

That’s right.  

Tim:

That’s pretty much what the whole Bible is about, right, is the people that follow God, that reject God, that hear God’s voice, that don’t hear God’s voice – this is all over the Bible.

David:

And we know God’s voice can come in many ways. It can be like Elijah said, “€œThe still small voice.”€ Or it can be like Daniel said, “€œIt’s the voice of a multitude.”€ When two, or three, or four, people starts telling you the same thing, you start listening. It could be like a donkey speaking to Balaam – who knows how– It could be an audible voice, it could be anything. There’s a lot of ways God speaks to us.

Mike Pence Says God Speaks to Him

David:

But Mike Pence says God speaks to him. Well, every Christian should say that. And so she”€™s saying, “€œOh man, he’s hearing voices, he needs mental help.”€ No. If you’re Catholic– by the way, Catholics also believe the God speaks. And so that’s one of the reasons that you pray, that you have prayers.

But she also got off and said, “€œOh, this thing about speaking in tongues.”€ I don’t know that applies to Mike Pence at all, but she really harped on it. And so the problem with that is it doesn’t matter what position you hold on speaking in tongues – whether you think it”€™s–

Tim:

By the way, this was not one of the things that the news outlets really carried much of. But when it comes to a biblical perspective, right. If she is going to attack someone for their faith, I’ve never seen her attack a Muslim, or a Buddhist, or a Hindu, for one of their practices that she thinks is crazy. But now she’s attacking Mike Pence.

And again, I’ve never heard Pence either mention tongues necessarily, and we’ve known Mike Pence a long time. I’ve never heard him bring this– now maybe he did, maybe we just didn’t hear about it. Maybe that”€™s true, but she certainly then, after attacked hearing from God, attacked speaking in tongues.

David:

And regardless of where you are on the issue, because denominations split on this, I think everybody would acknowledge that speaking in tongues happened in the Bible. It”€™s throughout the book of Acts. No question about it. And I think historians also acknowledge it happened in most major revivals throughout history. Whether it happened in Europe, or Africa, or America, or elsewhere. And today some denominations say, “€œWell, you can still speak in tongues.”€ And some say you can”€™t.

 

Well, that really doesn’t matter. The point is what happened with Jesus. When Jesus was doing some rather miraculous things in the Bible, pharisees came and said, “€œOh, these miracles He’s doing, that’s of the devil.”€ And Jesus said, “€œHo, stop, timeout right there.”€ He said, “€œYou can criticize Me all you want, you can criticize God the Father all you want, but when you start criticizing the Holy Spirit–“€ Or what He said, “€œBlaspheming against the Holy Spirit, now you’re standing in serious judgment.”€

Attributing Good to Evil

David:

And the point is when you use the word blaspheme, that means to attribute the good to evil. In other words, the Holy Spirit is doing something you’re saying, “€œWell that’s of the devil.”€ Jesus said, “€œIf you say that you’re in serious danger of eternal judgment.”€ And He said, “€œSay what you want about Me or the Father, but not about the Holy Spirit.

So, regardless of whatever side you come down on the tongues debate today, there’s no question that it’s occurred historically. And you really need to be careful about saying, “€œWell, that stuff with the Holy Spirit, that’s of the devil.”€ No, that’s where Jesus made a real clear warning.

So, that’s the other thing Joy Behar brought up was speaking in tongues. From a Christian standpoint, and from a Catholic standpoint by the way, you really need to be careful with that. Because even Catholics today there are charismatic Catholics who believe in speaking in tongues. And for her to see that as so wild, it just means she doesn’t know much about Christian faith. But that’s really a place to be very careful.

Tim:

But again, for her to attack Christian values in a way that she doesn’t attack other faiths and their values–

David:

That”€™s right. That”€™s right.

Tim:

Right? We”€™re singling out Christian belief and behavior. Again, as she identifies to be a Christian, a Catholic in this case, this doesn’t make sense from someone that would claim to be tolerant and loving, “€œWe”€™re the left, we”€™re the liberal, and we’re the ones that want to embrace people, and accept people for who they are, and we don’t want to condemn people, we don”€™t want to put them in a box.”€ This doesn’t seem like she’s really lining up with her ideology when it comes to Christians or even biblical and doctoral positions.

Not Practicing What She Preaches

David:

Yes, she’s definitely not practicing the tolerance and acceptance and diversity that she preaches and she did single out Christians.

One of the guys who had a great piece on this was Dr. Everett Piper with Oklahoma Wesleyan University. It was a great piece that he did in response to it pointing out some of the hypocrisy that goes with these kind of attacks. Certainly this stuff made national media news and it was characterized as attacking all Christians, and in many ways she was, it was singled around Pence and around these two theological issues. But Dr. Piper had a great response to this.

Rick:

Alright, Dr. Everett Piper, our special guest, will be with us when we come back from the break. So, stay with us, folks. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

Moments From America’s History

This is David Barton with another moment from America’s history. Today, numerous court decisions demonstrate that there’s often a conflict between the courts, the law, and religion. Has this conflict always existed?

Not according to James Wilson.  James Wilson was a signer of both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. He was a law professor as well as an original justice on the U.S. Supreme Court. James Wilson saw no conflict between religion and the law. In fact, just the contrary.

He declared, “€œHuman law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine. Far from being rivals or enemies religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistance.  Indeed, these two sciences run into each other.”

In the views of Founding Father James Wilson religion and good civil law were inseparable. For more information on God’s hand in American history contact WallBuilders at 1-800-8-REBUILD.

Rick:

Welcome back to WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us today. Dr Everett Piper back with us from Oklahoma Wesleyan University. Always a pleasure to have you, sir, thanks for your time today.

Dr. Everett Piper:

Well, Rick it’s always a joy. Thank you for having me.

What Should be the Christian”€™s Response?

Rick:

Hey, man, I”€™m sure that Joy Behar and The View is not typically your topic of conversation everyday – it”€™s certainly not mine. But she took some really cheap shots at Christianity and Mike Pence and we just thought, “€œHey, what should be the Christian’s response when a major media figure says these kind of things?”€

Dr. Everett Piper:

I think the Christian response is to have clarity and conviction. I don’t think we should get red faced and angry about it. And I don’t think we want to exchange eye for eye, if you will, on this one.

Rick:

Yeah.

Dr. Everett Piper:

Meaning we don’t want to act immature in confronting immaturity.

That said, I think clarity is important. When somebody like Joy Behar who waves the rainbow banner of love trumps hate, and tolerance, and anti-bigotry. When they wave that banner, but yet turn around and show their intolerance, show that they are bigots, and show that they”€™re hateful rather than loving, we need to point it out and say, “€œWhy?”€

Here’s what I mean- when she criticizes Mike Pence”€™s Christianity, she is the poster child for the technical definition of bigotry. The definition of a bigot is someone who is intolerant toward somebody else because of their ideas, or views, or beliefs. Well, isn’t Joy Behar being a bigot when she criticizes, maligns, and lampooned, Mike Pence for his evangelical faith?

Rick:

Yeah.

Let”€™s Talk About Phobia

Dr. Everett Piper:

The answer is “€œyes”€. Tolerance– she says, “€œI stand for tolerance, but I can’t tolerate Mike Pence”€™s intolerance.”€ She”€™s self refuting at every turn, it makes no sense. We need to point that out.

And then finally, phobia. The Progressives today have conflated disagreement with phobia at every turn. So, if you disagree with somebody you must be afraid of them. If you disagree with a homosexual, you’re a homophobe. If you disagree with a Muslim, you’re Islamophobic.

Well, this is ridiculous. Just because I disagree with you, or you with me, doesn’t mean I’m afraid of you or you’re afraid of me. And we need to point that out to Behar because if indeed disagreement is phobic, then she is a * because she has great disagreement with Christianity and therefore she’s afraid of it. This is the kind of response we need to offer.

Rick:

Yeah. I think if you’re not willing, right here on the air, Dr. Piper, to admit that Texas is absolutely the greatest state in the union then you’re a Texasphobe.

Dr. Everett Piper:

Well, you guys actually do frighten me, but other than that.

*laughter*

Dr. Everett Piper:

But that is–

Rick:

You”€™re 100% right. I mean, that’s–

Dr. Everett Piper:

Exactly.

Rick:

It’s a language thing that they’ve managed to just take over. I had to ask you about the, I forget the other lady on the show’s name, but she– I’m sitting here reading the transcript as she said something like, she said– here, let me find it, I”€™ve got to read it. Okay, she said, “€œDo we want our politics served to us with a religious veneer over them? This administration is not a values driven administration.”€

The God They See in the Mirror

Rick:

And I”€™m going, “€œWait a minute– so they complain that the administration has values, and is actually driven by any kind of religious conviction and then say, “€˜but they’re not values driven.”€™”€ I don’t even understand the logic there.

Dr. Everett Piper:

It”€™s just because they worshipping the god they see in the mirror rather than the god they find in the Bible. They’re the ones who are going to decide what values are acceptable and which ones aren’t, they’re the ones who will decide what can be tolerated and what won’t be tolerant, they’re the ones that can be bigots while they criticize bigots.

Again, this elevates human beings to the standard of all that’s right and all that’s wrong.

And we know that the lesson of history is that never works because whenever we’re arrogant enough to presume that we can start defining those things, that’s the definition of tyranny. That’s the definition of man controlling the agenda rather than those self-evident truths that are endowed to us by our Creator. This is crazy.

And here’s the other interesting thing, Rick. They lampooned and maligned Pence for his Billy Graham rule, if you will. That he won’t be alone with a woman unless his wife or someone else is there to hold him accountable. Well, you know what? Newsflash – Mike Pence is not being accused of sexual harassment or a sexual assault in the media right now. Why? Because that rule works. But yet they lampoon him, and mock him, and make fun of him, even in this particular broadcast, when it’s evident that his biblical worldview is superior to the worldview of those that criticize him.

Rick:

And just simply gets better results. Like you said, he’s not having to deal with all that junk that other people are that didn’t have the standard that he had. He held himself to a higher standard, it got better results. That”€™s what we should be looking at and saying, “€œWhat policies get better results? Which policies produce a better society?”€

What it Seems to Always Come Back To

Rick:

But it’s like you”€™re saying – it’s almost like every conversation comes back to this basic idea of objective or subjective morals. Because if I understand you right, you’re saying because they have this subjective moral truth, and not even truth, but subjective morals worldview, that’s why they can say, “€œYou guys don’t have values because you don’t have our values. Our values are the only ones. It’s what we believe that is allowed.”€

Dr. Everett Piper:

Absolutely. And then you see how it just implodes on itself. For example, love. They claim to stand for love – not hate. But I ask you this – who’s more loving – Mike Pence or Joy Behar? In his delivery, his temperament, his tone?

Rick:

Yeah.

Dr. Everett Piper:

Is mocking someone loving, is lampooning someone loving, is ridiculing someone loving, is marginalizing them loving? Well, that’s what Behar is doing to Pence at every turn. So, who is the face of love in this debate – Behar or Pence? I’ll go with Pence any day.

Rick:

No doubt. No doubt. So, good, so good. Dr. Everett Piper author of Not A Daycare The Devastating Consequences of Abandoning Truth. He’s also president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University.

For all you parents out there that have young people getting ready for college, if you’re not looking in Oklahoma Wesleyan, you need to be. Don’t send your kids off somewhere where they’re going to erase everything you’ve worked on for 18 years.

Dr. Piper, always a pleasure, brother. Have a great one.

Dr. Everett Piper:

Alright, blessings, Rick.

Rick:

Stay with us, folks. We’ll be right back with David and Tim Barton.

Constitution Alive

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Rick:

Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us on WallBuilders Live. Special thanks to Dr. Everett Piper from Oklahoma Wesley University for joining us as well.

We’re back with David and Tim Barton. And, guys, of course Dr. Piper lays it out. It still comes back to when you do it God’s way, you get good results like we’ve seen with Mike Pence. He hasn’t had to deal with all those same problems as everybody else. But yet the culture today just continues to mock that.

The Great Irony

Tim:

There is a great irony that he would be the one getting scorned and getting attacked. Not– we never want to play the victim card, but in essence he is kind of the victim here. He’s done nothing but be faithful to his wife. He has not assaulted women, he has talked about his faith.

But because of that, The View doesn’t spend time in this segment targeting the Harvey Weinsteins of the world, targeting the sexual abuse culture that’s that’s prevalent in Hollywood, talking about domestic violence. No, no, no, we’re going to target a guy who is faithful to his wife, who is a devoted Christian, who loves and service people, it–

David:

Who is a class act, by the way. He’s very gracious, he”€™s very kind, he will go out of his way to help anybody, he’s a great guy.

Tim:

And to that point, it was so interesting when he took his family and they went and saw Hamilton, and his family was booed. He was booed when he came in and he leaned over to his daughter and said, “€œWell, this is what freedom sounds like. This is free speech.”€ And he wasn’t angry, wasn’t frustrated–

David:

Very gracious.

Tim:

–didn’t try to shut them up. He just said, “€œOkay, this is what it is.”€ Very gracious, very loving, and he’s the one getting targeted. When, Rick, as you pointed out, as Everett pointed out, he’s the one who, at this point, seems to be the stable one by having this,   what was called the Billy Graham rule. That you’re not going to be– if you’re a man, you’re not alone with a woman without your wife being there with you. So, that you’re actually never alone with a woman, your wife’s always with you, or door”€™s open, people around, whatever the case is.

Above the Appearance of Evil

Tim:

But it keeps you from being in those situations when negative things can happen. And Mike Pence just wants to keep himself above reproach, above the appearance of evil. And it still doesn’t stop someone like the tolerant left coast of The View, Joy Behar, from attacking him for holding Christian perspectives, biblical principles. Then even saying he has, perhaps, some kind of mental disorder because God talks to him and he has these voices in his head. Which is certainly, again, a biblical perspective, but one that we’ve really lost in culture.

David:

Well, I love what Everett said too about, “€œYou don’t respond to immaturity with immaturity.”€

Rick:

Yeah, that was good.

David:

So, you don’t go back and attack them with the same kind of nonsense. And when he was talking about how that she claims to be tolerant and she’s intolerant, she”€™s the real bigot, and she’s the hateful one rather than loving – and all of the things she would deny that she is is what she just demonstrated.

I’m reminded of what the Bible says in Romans two that when you accuse someone else of something, oftentimes you’re accusing yourself. And your conscious of that in others because you have that problem in yourself. By the way, that’s a good reminder for every one of us to think about, “€œAlright, what we’re accusing the other side of, make sure we don’t ourselves have that.”€ Because that is a biblical rule that you often attack others from what you yourself have a fault with.

But I love what he said that today, disagreement is a phobia and it means you have a fear. So, if I disagree– I love what you, I mean, you had Piper all cracked up when you did the Texas phobia stuff, which was great. Just hearing an Oklahoma guy or a North Texas guy laugh that hard.

Rick:

Right.

A Strategic Move From the Left

David:

But it’s– So, I disagree with homosexuals, therefore I’m homophobic and I have a fear of homosexuals, or a hatred. Or I disagree with Sharia law, so I’m a xenophobe. He was exactly right – just because you have disagreement doesn’t mean you have a phobia, or a hatred, or a fear – it means you have disagreement.

Tim:

But part of how you win that argument in culture is you have to label the other side as having a problem.

David:

That’s right.

Tim:

Right. So, this is a very strategic move from the left because if they can say, “€œWait a second, if you disagree with me, you’re hateful. And you’re a bad person because you disagree with me.”€ Which is what we’ve seen with some of the response to the school shooting from Florida where people that don’t support a ban on assault rifles, that don’t support increased gun control, that don’t support removing all firearms etc.. Liberals are telling people, “€œIf you don’t support us it’s because you hate children.”€

Now wait a second, that not the proper cause and effect here, right. That’s not how that works. Just because we disagree doesn’t mean I hate children. Or in this case, because we disagree doesn’t mean that I’m an Islamophobic, or a homophobe, or– No, no, disagreement doesn’t mean there’s a fear of, there”€™s a hate of, etc. But the way the left tries to win this argument– and really, it’s more than the left, but the way people try to win arguments is if they can label you–

David:

Well, even the right does this at times.

Tim:

That”€™s what I”€™m saying – it”€™s more than the left, right.

David:

Yeah.

If You Can Label the Other Side

Tim:

There’s a strategy involved. If you can label the other side and make them look like the bad guy, you’ve not actually propped up your case, you’ve just tried to belittle their case. And this is part of how they win is by demeaning the other side. So therefore, “€œWell, you”€™re hateful and you’re intolerant.”€ Well, aren’t you, at this moment, being hateful and intolerant of my intolerance?

And this is what Dr. Piper points out so well. But this is where the left has done really a great job at labeling, and branding, and kind of belittling, demeaning, the other side to make it look like they’re the ones with the problem. When, as he asserted, just because we disagree doesn’t mean I’m scared of you.

Rick:

Hey, quick break, guys. We’ll be right back. Stay with us, folks. You’re listening to WallBuilders Live.

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How Do We Respond As Believers?

Rick:

We’re back on WallBuilders Live. Thanks for staying with us. Back with David and Tim Barton. So, guys, how do we respond to this as believers? You see this–

David:

Rick, let me tell you–

Rick:

Yeah.

David:

Let me take you even to another thought related to this. Because the one Bible verse that nearly every secular person, every progressive person, every millennial can tell you, is, “€œDon’t judge.”€ And they think that’s what the Bible says, and Jesus says, “€œDon’t judge.”€ That”€™s not what He says. Jesus says, “€œDon’t judge because you’re going to be judged the same standard you use. Whatever measure you use to judge others is going to be used against you.”€

Tim:

Right. So, for example, if Mike Weinstein said, “€œHey, it’s wrong to sexually abuse women. You shouldn’t do that.”€ Well, bro, right? Like if you’re saying that’s wrong, that’s wrong for you too. You could not ascribe a wrong to somebody else and then think it’s okay for you, right?

If you say, “€œMan, I don’t like gossips. People the gossip all time, it’s so annoying.”€ And then you gossip to your friend about this person that gossips. Well, no, no, no, you’ve misunderstood, right? Whatever standard you uphold, that standard applies in your life too.

But for this exchange, right, Joy Behar would be someone that I would certainly assume would quickly argue, “€œWell, you’re not supposed to judge other people.”€

David:

And she would probably say, “€œChristians are so judgmental. Christians have all these opinions.”€

Joy Behar, “The View” Host, Mocks Mike Pence’s Faith

Tim:

Right. Well, now, wait a second. Now, Joy, if you believe that we’re not supposed to judge other people, then why in the world are you criticizing Mike Pence? Why in the world are you judging him? You’re not supposed to judge him, right, judging is wrong.

Now, obviously it’s not quite what the Bible says.

Because, again, the Bible’s more about standards with judgment than about passing judgment. Because the Bible– Jesus said just a few verses later, “€œWe’re supposed to judge a tree by the fruit so we know if it”€™s a good tree or bad tree.”€ We do judge and measure behavior. However, when someone says you’re not supposed to judge people and then they go out and judge people, that’s a really hypocritical. And it’s ironic that they don’t see they”€™re doing that.

Rick:

Special thanks to Dr. Everett Piper for joining us today from Oklahoma Wesleyan University. Thanks to you guys for listening. Be sure and visit our websites today – WallBuilders.com and WallBuildersLive.com. This has been WallBuilders Live.